"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> a écrit dans le message de news: 
48773886$1@news.povray.org...
> As an aside...
>
> My therapist seems to think that I'm nervous of public speaking because 
> I'm autistic. I was under the impression that *all* people are nervous of 
> public speaking. (Or at least, the vast majority of people anyway.) I 
> didn't think this was "abnormal" in any way...?

I'd say that people who are *** naturally *** so self-confident that they 
can speak in public without fear are the abnormal ones. Like Gail and others 
said, it needs time and training before one can overcome it and even then... 
An anecdote about legendary stage actress Sarah Bernhardt: a young actress 
once confided to her that she never had stage fright before going on stage. 
Sarah Bernhardt promptly answered: "Don't worry, it comes with talent."

I can't see what it has to do with autism anyway. More seriously, what form 
of autism do you suffer from? Frankly, it doesn't sound that you have issues 
than other people don't experience sometimes in their life, particularly in 
the geek/nerd population. I'm left with the strange feeling that if you're 
autistic, then I'm autistic too and so are many people I know...

G.

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>> My therapist seems to think that I'm nervous of public speaking 
>> because I'm autistic. I was under the impression that *all* people are 
>> nervous of public speaking. (Or at least, the vast majority of people 
>> anyway.) I didn't think this was "abnormal" in any way...?
> 
> It's not.

I thought as much...

> I used to be nervous of public speaking, to the extent that 
> I'd bail on assembly bible readings at school and even considered 
> skipping some uni classes. I'm still scared of it now, even after giving 
> papers at research conference and being a best man three times. It's the 
> build-up I can't stand, it just terrifies me. However, once I'm up there 
> I usually have great fun and wonder what all the fuss was about... weird.

...well OK, there are degrees of fear. Being absolutely terrified to the 
point of phobia probably *is* abnormal, but simply being nervous about 
it is really normal IMHO.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Gilles Tran wrote:

> An anecdote about legendary stage actress Sarah Bernhardt: a young actress 
> once confided to her that she never had stage fright before going on stage. 
> Sarah Bernhardt promptly answered: "Don't worry, it comes with talent."

PWN3D!

> I can't see what it has to do with autism anyway. More seriously, what form 
> of autism do you suffer from? Frankly, it doesn't sound that you have issues 
> than other people don't experience sometimes in their life, particularly in 
> the geek/nerd population. I'm left with the strange feeling that if you're 
> autistic, then I'm autistic too and so are many people I know...

Some have argued that a "geek" is a person who suffers from autism...

(We all know the stereotypical nerd boy - the drooling kid with funny 
glasses and a silly voice who spends hours obsessing over equations or 
computers or something, and who lives in a delusional dream world and is 
imfamously useless with girls. All of which is pretty much a textbook 
description of somebody with some form of autistic dissorder.)

Of course, that's just a stereotype. Most *real* computer/maths 
enthusiasts aren't like that at all. But people with certain kinds of 
brain malfunction tend to gravitate towards computers, maths and/or 
stamp collecting...

In other words, being interested in computers doesn't make you have a 
brain disorder - having a brain disorder can make you interested in 
computers. ;-)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> As an aside...
>
> My therapist seems to think that I'm nervous of public speaking because
> I'm autistic. I was under the impression that *all* people are nervous
> of public speaking. (Or at least, the vast majority of people anyway.) I
> didn't think this was "abnormal" in any way...?
>
> --
> http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
> http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

1. What's so desirable about the statistical property of being "normal"?
Technically, having red hair is "abnormal". I don't see a problem with it.

2. I, by no means, would try to pass myself off as someone who can speak with
any technical authority on this subject, BUT it seems to me that "autistic" is
the flavor of the month among pop-psyche circles and that the label is being
thrown around by a whole bunch of quasi-professionals who lack the requisite
background in neuroscience to be doing so. Human beings quite naturally come in
a wide variety of dispositions with regard to social interaction.  These days,
it seems that ANYONE who doesn't fall into the "productively gregarious
corporate team player" category is in for a pejorative "diagnosis".  Until if
and when it comes from a fully qualified neurologist who has run the necessary
*physiological* tests ("behavioral surveys" are pure hokum), I would take the
"autistic" label with a micro grain of salt.

3. I'm one of the oddballs who has always enjoyed having an audience - the
bigger, the better.  During my college years, I had an easy ride at my job at
the local Science Center because most of my co-workers dreaded having to stand
up in front of several hundred people to give presentations.  So, they were
happy to have me do nearly all of them while they were busy doing what I would
have considered hard work.  Since the subject has come up MANY times in my
life, I've developed a fairly standardized bit of advice. It has helped some
people enormously and others not at all.  In the event that it might help
*somebody*, I'll included it here. In your mind, divide the audience into two
distinct groups. Group One are the decent folk whose opinion might be worth
actually caring about.  They'll empathize with your situation and be more than
willing to cut you a break for any imperfections in your presentation - just as
you would gladly do for them.  Group Two are the jerks who have nothing better
to do that stand around passing judgment on others.  Talk to Group One as you
would to any group of friends and ignore Group Two as they so richly deserve to
be ignored.

Best Regards,
Mike C.

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Mike the Elder wrote:
> I would take the "autistic" label with a micro grain of salt.

I think when they identify "Lamont's Region" you'll know whether you're 
autistic or not. Otherwise, the speaker is blowing smoke most times.

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
  Helpful housekeeping hints:
   Check your feather pillows for holes
    before putting them in the washing machine.

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Mike the Elder wrote:

> 1. What's so desirable about the statistical property of being "normal"?

It massively increases the probability of people liking you. (Which is, 
after all, the most important thing in life.)

> In your mind, divide the audience into two
> distinct groups. Group One are the decent folk whose opinion might be worth
> actually caring about.  They'll empathize with your situation and be more than
> willing to cut you a break for any imperfections in your presentation - just as
> you would gladly do for them.  Group Two are the jerks who have nothing better
> to do that stand around passing judgment on others.  Talk to Group One as you
> would to any group of friends and ignore Group Two as they so richly deserve to
> be ignored.

Heh. That there is good advice. ;-)

But as we all know, fear is not necessarily a rational responce - ask 
anybody who's afraid of spiders.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 23:21:20 +0200, Gail Shaw wrote:

> "Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message
> news:48767938$1@news.povray.org...
>>
>> That's something that I started doing back in about 1998 - speaking at
>> conferences.  I've got a good friend from Ireland who also was an
>> instructor - he describes himself as an "extroverted introvert" when
>> he's teaching.  It's actually a very common trait amongst technical
>> instructors, it seems.  Surprisingly more common than one might expect.
> 
> Sounds about right. Describes some of the speakers I've seen at
> conferences very well.

The friend I mention here has a fairly bad stutter and a very thick Irish 
accent as well - watching him teach, he goes through an almost *total* 
transformation; his accent softens considerably and his stutter 
*vanishes*.  It's quite amazing to watch.

Jim

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On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 11:40:06 +0100, Invisible wrote:

> As an aside...
> 
> My therapist seems to think that I'm nervous of public speaking because
> I'm autistic. I was under the impression that *all* people are nervous
> of public speaking. (Or at least, the vast majority of people anyway.) I
> didn't think this was "abnormal" in any way...?

I think most people are nervous about public speaking to some degree.  
Whenever I get up in front of a class (or one of the toughest crowds - an 
audience of other instructors, which I do at least once a year for a 
whole day - along with several other presenters that I select), I'm 
always nervous and I *always* think I've done a poor job.  It's 
reassuring to have these people - many of whom are lifelong instructors - 
come up and tell me what a good job I did.

The first time I did one of *those* talks, I was asked to lead the day's 
sessions 5 minutes before it started.  The conversation with my VP at the 
time was something like:

VP:  "So, who's leading the proceedings today?"
Me:  "Well, [boss] was planning on doing this, but he's moved on to a 
different job a week ago."
VP:  "I guess it's your show then."
Me:  "Uh, OK...."

I basically had to completely ad-lib the opening bit.  I was *sure* I was 
making a total ass out of myself.  But everyone thought I did a great 
job, even though I wasn't prepared - they didn't know I wasn't prepared 
and thought it went off very smoothly.

Jim

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On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 16:35:18 +0100, Invisible wrote:

> It massively increases the probability of people liking you. (Which is,
> after all, the most important thing in life.)

I would disagree.  The most important thing to me in life is to be 
respected.  People who like you but disrespect you are not friends; 
they're people who generally see you as a means to an end.

I also rank highly along with respect is that people see me as being 
ethical, fair, and honest.  I wouldn't give up those principles just to 
have "people" like me.  People come and go.  Ethics, honesty, fairness - 
these things stick with you your entire life.

Jim

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>> It massively increases the probability of people liking you. (Which is,
>> after all, the most important thing in life.)
> 
> I would disagree.  The most important thing to me in life is to be 
> respected.  People who like you but disrespect you are not friends; 
> they're people who generally see you as a means to an end.
> 
> I also rank highly along with respect is that people see me as being 
> ethical, fair, and honest.  I wouldn't give up those principles just to 
> have "people" like me.  People come and go.  Ethics, honesty, fairness - 
> these things stick with you your entire life.

I would say that I want to be liked by the right people.

Those are the kind of people who wouldn't like me if I *wasn't* fair, 
ethical and honest.

Different axioms, same conclusion.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Jim Henderson wrote:

> I think most people are nervous about public speaking to some degree.  

Good. It's nice to know I know *something* about something...

> Whenever I get up in front of a class (or one of the toughest crowds - an 
> audience of other instructors, which I do at least once a year for a 
> whole day - along with several other presenters that I select), I'm 
> always nervous and I *always* think I've done a poor job.  It's 
> reassuring to have these people - many of whom are lifelong instructors - 
> come up and tell me what a good job I did.

See, this is the part I'm missing. I always think I did poorly, but 
nobody ever comes up to me and says "hey, you did that really well". 
Possibly just because I don't have any friends, I'm not sure.

The *best* thing about performing Shakespear live is... the audience is 
asleep anyway! ;-)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 18:58:10 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>>> It massively increases the probability of people liking you. (Which
>>> is, after all, the most important thing in life.)
>> 
>> I would disagree.  The most important thing to me in life is to be
>> respected.  People who like you but disrespect you are not friends;
>> they're people who generally see you as a means to an end.
>> 
>> I also rank highly along with respect is that people see me as being
>> ethical, fair, and honest.  I wouldn't give up those principles just to
>> have "people" like me.  People come and go.  Ethics, honesty, fairness
>> - these things stick with you your entire life.
> 
> I would say that I want to be liked by the right people.
> 
> Those are the kind of people who wouldn't like me if I *wasn't* fair,
> ethical and honest.
> 
> Different axioms, same conclusion.

Well, it's fair to say there are people *here* who like you.  So that's a 
start.

Jim

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On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 19:00:08 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
> 
>> I think most people are nervous about public speaking to some degree.
> 
> Good. It's nice to know I know *something* about something...

Well, you've demonstrated that repeatedly here.

>> Whenever I get up in front of a class (or one of the toughest crowds -
>> an audience of other instructors, which I do at least once a year for a
>> whole day - along with several other presenters that I select), I'm
>> always nervous and I *always* think I've done a poor job.  It's
>> reassuring to have these people - many of whom are lifelong instructors
>> - come up and tell me what a good job I did.
> 
> See, this is the part I'm missing. I always think I did poorly, but
> nobody ever comes up to me and says "hey, you did that really well".
> Possibly just because I don't have any friends, I'm not sure.

It's got nothing to do with having friends or not in the audience.  I 
consider the vast majority of the people in my instructor program to be 
professional colleagues.  A few are good friends, but not many (less than 
1% certainly - the program's not that big).

I think the audience also does matter - in retrospect, having an audience 
of people who teach, they know the importance of telling a speaker 
they've done a good job.  General audiences tend not to unless they're 
asked to do a formal evaluation (and even then many don't - I've 
presented to groups of a couple hundred and only had 3 or 4 formal 
evaluations come back - and almost *always* from the ones who weren't 
happy about something).

With a general audience, no feedback is generally considered a good 
thing, because *most* people will tend to say something only if they're 
unhappy.

I hadn't really thought about that before.  It's not really that 
different from my experiences in the Novell Forums as a SysOp there, 
though - the only customers who came in were the ones who were having 
problems - people didn't come in and say "just wanted to say, 
everything's working fine - well done, Novell!".

> The *best* thing about performing Shakespear live is... the audience is
> asleep anyway! ;-)

There is also that possibility, though I find usually if someone in the 
audience is put to sleep by a presentation, they'll be one of the 
complainers.  Often they will complain that you didn't cover something 
that you did - they just weren't paying attention and missed it.

Jim

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Jim Henderson wrote:

> Well, it's fair to say there are people *here* who like you.  So that's a 
> start.

Aye, that I'll grant ye.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Jim Henderson wrote:

> I think the audience also does matter - in retrospect, having an audience 
> of people who teach, they know the importance of telling a speaker 
> they've done a good job.

Aye, that makes sense.

> With a general audience, no feedback is generally considered a good 
> thing, because *most* people will tend to say something only if they're 
> unhappy.

No news is good news? ;-)

>> The *best* thing about performing Shakespear live is... the audience is
>> asleep anyway! ;-)
> 
> There is also that possibility, though I find usually if someone in the 
> audience is put to sleep by a presentation, they'll be one of the 
> complainers.  Often they will complain that you didn't cover something 
> that you did - they just weren't paying attention and missed it.

I still remember Zimin Wo. (Yes, that was is actual name.) Nobody ever 
listened to his lectures. People were openly using it as an excuse to 
catch up on sleep after that wild all-night student partying that normal 
students apparently get up to.

Ways to wake up a sleeping audience:

Lecturer: "Uh, ok, uh, so den we have ah fisicol layer, da data link 
layer, an den presentashon layer..."

Guy at the back: "PRINCESS LAYER!"

Mmm, OK, I guess you had to be there... Trust me, it was damned funny! ;-)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 19:29:10 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>> With a general audience, no feedback is generally considered a good
>> thing, because *most* people will tend to say something only if they're
>> unhappy.
> 
> No news is good news? ;-)

Yeah, generally speaking.  :-)  Maybe nobody was wowed to the point of 
telling you, but nobody complained either, and that's a good thing.

> I still remember Zimin Wo. (Yes, that was is actual name.) Nobody ever
> listened to his lectures. People were openly using it as an excuse to
> catch up on sleep after that wild all-night student partying that normal
> students apparently get up to.

LOL, I had a chem professor like that.  He used to lecture the chalkboard 
for 2 hours at a time while doing chemical balancing equations.

I also remember going to a presentation by an IBM software engineer on 
NDS (Novell's first generation directory service) on IBM mainframes.  He 
lectured the podium in a very soft voice.  I was quite upset, actually, 
because I was interested in the topic, but even in the 3rd row, I 
couldn't hear him.

> Ways to wake up a sleeping audience:
> 
> Lecturer: "Uh, ok, uh, so den we have ah fisicol layer, da data link
> layer, an den presentashon layer..."
> 
> Guy at the back: "PRINCESS LAYER!"
> 
> Mmm, OK, I guess you had to be there... Trust me, it was damned funny!
> ;-)

I could see that....Back when I used to go to church, we had a pastor who 
was known to have thrown an American football into the congregation at a 
football player who used to fall asleep during the sermon.

While probably not something I'd do - physical interaction does tend to 
keep people awake.  When teaching, I occasionally liked to have spiffs to 
throw out to the class in order to wake them up.  I did that at my 
instructor summit last year as well as part of the "warm up" in the 
morning (and again after lunch and each break).  Of course, that only 
works with *soft* spiffs - I wouldn't want to give away, say, an external 
hard drive by throwing it into a crowd. :)

Jim

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"Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message
news:4877ae3f$1@news.povray.org...

> Of course, that only
> works with *soft* spiffs - I wouldn't want to give away, say, an external
> hard drive by throwing it into a crowd. :)
>

Lol.

Had something similar at a recent MS event. Presenter says that he has lots
of stuff to give away over the course of the day.
"I have stress balls," he says, and throws two of them into the crowd.
"I have T-shirts," he says and tosses one into the crowd.
"I have some nice hardcover books," he says, hoisting three into the air as
if to throw. People in the front couple of rows duck. He grins and puts the
books back down, "Maybe I shouldn't throw these"

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Gail Shaw wrote:

> Had something similar at a recent MS event. Presenter says that he has lots
> of stuff to give away over the course of the day.
> "I have stress balls," he says, and throws two of them into the crowd.
> "I have T-shirts," he says and tosses one into the crowd.
> "I have some nice hardcover books," he says, hoisting three into the air as
> if to throw. People in the front couple of rows duck. He grins and puts the
> books back down, "Maybe I shouldn't throw these"

Ah, the art of a TRUE presenter! ;-)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Invisible wrote:
>>> (And girlie is apparently even more busy, and not too keen on meeting 
>>> me alone it seems...)
>>
>> Not a bad thing, actually.
>>
>> Good news is, if she wants to double date, she's not thinking of you 
>> as 'just a friend'.
> 
> Nah. She's explicitly not looking for a BF.

Girls *always* say that, and then end up dating the first guy with the 
guts to ask them out.

Don't let it put you off :)

Of course, don't stalk her, either!  It's important that she be 
comfortable with you, so don't try to push something she isn't ready 
for.  Just hang out with her, and who knows?  You might find out she's a 
great friend, but *not* someone you want to date.  Or, things could go 
the other way, and we'd have to find a new mascot :)

...Chambers

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>> Nah. She's explicitly not looking for a BF.
> 
> Girls *always* say that, and then end up dating the first guy with the 
> guts to ask them out.

Erm... this girl has just come out of an abusive relationship with a guy 
who used to physically beat her. I'm pretty sure she's not kidding.

> Don't let it put you off :)
> 
> Of course, don't stalk her, either!  It's important that she be 
> comfortable with you, so don't try to push something she isn't ready 
> for.  Just hang out with her, and who knows?  You might find out she's a 
> great friend, but *not* someone you want to date.  Or, things could go 
> the other way, and we'd have to find a new mascot :)

That's more or less my plan, but... she's so hard to hang out with! 
She's always "busy". :-(

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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>
> That's more or less my plan, but... she's so hard to hang out with!
> She's always "busy". :-(
>

It happens.

I've been trying to meet up with an old work colleague. First I'm busy, then
he's on vacation, then I'm busy again.

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Gail Shaw wrote:

> It happens.
> 
> I've been trying to meet up with an old work colleague. First I'm busy, then
> he's on vacation, then I'm busy again.

Annoying, isn't it?

(Well, *I* am almost never busy - after all, I don't "do" anything. I 
just spend my life sitting alone in front of a computer. But evidently 
normal people lead significantly busier lives than that...)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> (Well, *I* am almost never busy - after all, I don't "do" anything. I 
> just spend my life sitting alone in front of a computer. But evidently 
> normal people lead significantly busier lives than that...)

Even though I have people I want to hang out with, we haven't actually 
met up for around 2 or 3 months.

Life's busy.  Most people either have to work, or go to school, or play 
with POV-Ray, or clean their house, or do laundry, or spend their little 
remaining time with their significant other.  She might not have all 
those things to deal with (you *did* say she's single now), but don't 
worry if it takes a month or more to find a good time to hang out.

Also, people are more cautious the first few times.  After you've been 
friends a while, they're more likely to blow off their current plans to 
spend time with you.

...Chambers

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> Life's busy.  Most people either have to work, or go to school, or play 
> with POV-Ray, or clean their house, or do laundry, or spend their little 
> remaining time with their significant other.  She might not have all 
> those things to deal with (you *did* say she's single now), but don't 
> worry if it takes a month or more to find a good time to hang out.
> 
> Also, people are more cautious the first few times.  After you've been 
> friends a while, they're more likely to blow off their current plans to 
> spend time with you.

Yeah, I'm not "worried", just dissapointed, that's all...

(She's promised to make time to call me tomorrow though. We'll see.)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 08:28:34 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>>> Nah. She's explicitly not looking for a BF.
>> 
>> Girls *always* say that, and then end up dating the first guy with the
>> guts to ask them out.
> 
> Erm... this girl has just come out of an abusive relationship with a guy
> who used to physically beat her. I'm pretty sure she's not kidding.

Ugh, that's some nasty stuff to deal with.

>> Don't let it put you off :)
>> 
>> Of course, don't stalk her, either!  It's important that she be
>> comfortable with you, so don't try to push something she isn't ready
>> for.  Just hang out with her, and who knows?  You might find out she's
>> a great friend, but *not* someone you want to date.  Or, things could
>> go the other way, and we'd have to find a new mascot :)
> 
> That's more or less my plan, but... she's so hard to hang out with!
> She's always "busy". :-(

She's getting over some pretty serious stuff.  Give her space and time.

Jim

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On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 22:58:26 +0200, Gail Shaw wrote:

> "Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message
> news:4877ae3f$1@news.povray.org...
> 
>> Of course, that only
>> works with *soft* spiffs - I wouldn't want to give away, say, an
>> external hard drive by throwing it into a crowd. :)
>>
>>
> Lol.
> 
> Had something similar at a recent MS event. Presenter says that he has
> lots of stuff to give away over the course of the day. "I have stress
> balls," he says, and throws two of them into the crowd. "I have
> T-shirts," he says and tosses one into the crowd. "I have some nice
> hardcover books," he says, hoisting three into the air as if to throw.
> People in the front couple of rows duck. He grins and puts the books
> back down, "Maybe I shouldn't throw these"

LOL, that's always a fun one to do ... :-)

Jim

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Gail Shaw wrote:

> Had something similar at a recent MS event. Presenter says that he has lots
> of stuff to give away over the course of the day.
> "I have stress balls," he says, and throws two of them into the crowd.
> "I have T-shirts," he says and tosses one into the crowd.
> "I have some nice hardcover books," he says, hoisting three into the air as
> if to throw. People in the front couple of rows duck. He grins and puts the
> books back down, "Maybe I shouldn't throw these"

The musicat Starlight Express has something similar. One of the 
performers throws a brick into the audience - but it's actually chained 
to his custume. Which is very obvious, but people still flinch... Quite 
amusing really.

But then, if you ever get to see Tap Dogs (which I highly recommend), 
the final scene involves them tap dancing in a tray of water and 
pretending to soak the audience at every step - although somehow nobody 
actually gets wet...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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>>>> Nah. She's explicitly not looking for a BF.
>>> Girls *always* say that, and then end up dating the first guy with the
>>> guts to ask them out.
>> Erm... this girl has just come out of an abusive relationship with a guy
>> who used to physically beat her. I'm pretty sure she's not kidding.
> 
> Ugh, that's some nasty stuff to deal with.

Indeed.

Although a few days ago, her profile on Facebook had the caption "Kate 
is looking for somebody but isn't sure where to find them", and 
yesterday it changed to "Kate is giving up on men, no offence to any but 
not more head messings please!" I'm confused...

>> That's more or less my plan, but... she's so hard to hang out with!
>> She's always "busy". :-(
> 
> She's getting over some pretty serious stuff.  Give her space and time.

I don't think that's the problem - I made it clear I just wanna be 
friends. I think she really *is* just very busy right now... Hopefully 
it won't last forever. She seems to be making a lot of effort to bother 
answering my texts and emails.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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"Orchid XP v8" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message
news:4879aa56$1@news.povray.org...
> She seems to be making a lot of effort to bother
> answering my texts and emails.
>

Which is good. Do you ever phone her?

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On 13-Jul-08 9:10, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> I think she really *is* just very busy right now... Hopefully 
> it won't last forever. She seems to be making a lot of effort to bother 
> answering my texts and emails.

So basically just like us?
Maybe she just needs a mascot.

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andrel wrote:

> Maybe she just needs a mascot.

LOL!

This is literally the most amusing thing I've heard all day... TY.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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>> She seems to be making a lot of effort to bother
>> answering my texts and emails.
> 
> Which is good. Do you ever phone her?

Well, I only got her phone number on Wednesday. (Which, if you recall, 
is what started this whole thread in the first place! ;-)

Since then I've bounced a few text messages back and forth, but I 
elected not to try to actually phone her just yet. I have mentioned the 
possibility a few times though. She's always claimed to be too busy, but 
she "promised" me that today she'll call me.

If this occurs, it will be the first time I've heard her voice since 
those few hours we spent together 4 months ago...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On 13-Jul-08 10:19, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> andrel wrote:
> 
>> Maybe she just needs a mascot.
> 
> LOL!
> 
> This is literally the most amusing thing I've heard all day... TY.
> 
It is only 10 AM, so how many people did you talk to already?

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> The musicat Starlight Express has something similar. One of the 
> performers throws a brick into the audience - but it's actually chained 
> to his custume. Which is very obvious, but people still flinch... Quite 
> amusing really.

And of course there's Gallagher, of smashing-watermellons fame. He'd 
pass out tarps for the first few rows.

In one show, he's talking about the environment, and points out that 
Exxon calls it a "spill".  He says "It's not a spill, it's a disaster." 
  He then picks up a large glass jar of black used oil and starts 
walking towards a globe. He then pauses when people lift their tarps and 
says "That's very wise. Score yourself five bonus points."

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
  Helpful housekeeping hints:
   Check your feather pillows for holes
    before putting them in the washing machine.

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On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 08:10:15 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>>>>> Nah. She's explicitly not looking for a BF.
>>>> Girls *always* say that, and then end up dating the first guy with
>>>> the guts to ask them out.
>>> Erm... this girl has just come out of an abusive relationship with a
>>> guy who used to physically beat her. I'm pretty sure she's not
>>> kidding.
>> 
>> Ugh, that's some nasty stuff to deal with.
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> Although a few days ago, her profile on Facebook had the caption "Kate
> is looking for somebody but isn't sure where to find them", and
> yesterday it changed to "Kate is giving up on men, no offence to any but
> not more head messings please!" I'm confused...

This tells me that she's still dealing with issues from her last 
relationship.

>>> That's more or less my plan, but... she's so hard to hang out with!
>>> She's always "busy". :-(
>> 
>> She's getting over some pretty serious stuff.  Give her space and time.
> 
> I don't think that's the problem - I made it clear I just wanna be
> friends. I think she really *is* just very busy right now... Hopefully
> it won't last forever. She seems to be making a lot of effort to bother
> answering my texts and emails.

Well, that's a good sign.  But having been in a physically abusive 
relationship, it takes time to get one's head on straight again and to 
trust people.  Believe me when I say I know what I'm talking about here.  
It's different for everyone, but people who have been the targets of 
abusive behaviour (and not just physical abuse) sometimes take *years* to 
come to terms with it and to trust anyone.

It *usually* isn't personal (one could never say unequivocally that it's 
*never* personal).  Fear is a powerful emotion and causes people to 
behave in inconsistent ways.

Jim

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>> Although a few days ago, her profile on Facebook had the caption "Kate
>> is looking for somebody but isn't sure where to find them", and
>> yesterday it changed to "Kate is giving up on men, no offence to any but
>> not more head messings please!" I'm confused...
> 
> This tells me that she's still dealing with issues from her last 
> relationship.

"Kate is thinking there is room for improvment...could be very happy 
depends if they agree:)."

> It *usually* isn't personal (one could never say unequivocally that it's 
> *never* personal).  Fear is a powerful emotion and causes people to 
> behave in inconsistent ways.

Yep, I'm confused... :-S

Oh, and she hasn't called by yet like she "promised". I'm guessing she's 
busy rather than her not wanting to call me... (But then, maybe I'm just 
being too optimistic?)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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>
> Oh, and she hasn't called by yet like she "promised". I'm guessing she's
> busy rather than her not wanting to call me... (But then, maybe I'm just
> being too optimistic?)

She gave you her number. Call her!

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Gail Shaw wrote:

> She gave you her number. Call her!

Yes mum. :-S



Well, I called her. The line isn't all that clear, so I'm having slight 
trouble understanding her. Suffice it to say, the conversion isn't 
flowing terribly smoothly. (Neither of us appears to have anything to 
talk about...)

A few minutes ago she said she'd call me back. I guess she will in a bit.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 20:12:21 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>>> Although a few days ago, her profile on Facebook had the caption "Kate
>>> is looking for somebody but isn't sure where to find them", and
>>> yesterday it changed to "Kate is giving up on men, no offence to any
>>> but not more head messings please!" I'm confused...
>> 
>> This tells me that she's still dealing with issues from her last
>> relationship.
> 
> "Kate is thinking there is room for improvment...could be very happy
> depends if they agree:)."

I'm not sure I follow here...

>> It *usually* isn't personal (one could never say unequivocally that
>> it's *never* personal).  Fear is a powerful emotion and causes people
>> to behave in inconsistent ways.
> 
> Yep, I'm confused... :-S
> 
> Oh, and she hasn't called by yet like she "promised". I'm guessing she's
> busy rather than her not wanting to call me... (But then, maybe I'm just
> being too optimistic?)

Or it could be that she's still dealing with fallout from that last 
relationship.  The problem with abusers is that unless they're held 
accountable, they tend to come back.  IME, abusive personalities don't 
tend to take "no" for an answer.

Jim

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Actually, I haven't seen her since that day, and I haven't seen the
> other guy for abotu 3 months either. I really thought meeting back up
> with him was going to allow me to develop a *real* social life at
> last... but no, it's make no difference.

Feeling like Hannelore?

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Nicolas Alvarez wrote:

> Feeling like Hannelore?

Meh. She has *way* more of a social life than me! :-P

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> 
>> Feeling like Hannelore?
> 
> Meh. She has *way* more of a social life than me! :-P

*Now* she does. Your post remembered that quote of her: "aren't you actors
my mom pays for to give me an illusion of a normal social life?"

Post a reply to this message

>>> Feeling like Hannelore?

>> Meh. She has *way* more of a social life than me! :-P

> *Now* she does. Your post remembered that quote of her: "aren't you actors
> my mom pays for to give me an illusion of a normal social life?"

Episode: http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1144

Nerd status: Confirmed.

To be honest, my parents aren't that rich. :-P

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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>> Had something similar at a recent MS event. Presenter says that he has 
>> lots
>> of stuff to give away over the course of the day.
>> "I have stress balls," he says, and throws two of them into the crowd.
>> "I have T-shirts," he says and tosses one into the crowd.
>> "I have some nice hardcover books," he says, hoisting three into the 
>> air as
>> if to throw. People in the front couple of rows duck. He grins and 
>> puts the
>> books back down, "Maybe I shouldn't throw these"

Oasis perform a live gig. At the end of the performance, Noel throws his 
tamberine into the crowd. Then the drummer gets up and throws his 
drumsticks into the crowd. And then Liam hoists his Union Jack electric 
guitar into the air over his head. The crowd goes insane! But after 
hesitating for a moment, he puts it down again and stroles off stage.

(Trust me, if Liam Ghallager's guitar had gone into the crowd, A) 
somebody would how have a serious concussion from being hit in the head 
with a guitar, and B) there would have been mass riots over who gets to 
keep the sacred object...)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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> (Trust me, if Liam Ghallager's guitar had gone into the crowd, A) somebody 
> would how have a serious concussion from being hit in the head with a 
> guitar,

I suspect there would have been a lot of hands in the way long before it got 
to anyones head!

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scott wrote:
>> (Trust me, if Liam Ghallager's guitar had gone into the crowd, A) 
>> somebody would how have a serious concussion from being hit in the 
>> head with a guitar,
> 
> I suspect there would have been a lot of hands in the way long before it 
> got to anyones head!

*You* try catching a heavy object at arm's length! ;-)

(As an aside... I'm not actually sure why electric guitars are so heavy. 
But trust me, they *are*!)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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> *You* try catching a heavy object at arm's length! ;-)

If there's 20 pairs of hands all above my head, I wouldn't mind!  Ever seen 
*a person* jump into a crowd? ;-)

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
>> *You* try catching a heavy object at arm's length! ;-)
> 
> If there's 20 pairs of hands all above my head, I wouldn't mind!  Ever 
> seen *a person* jump into a crowd? ;-)

Actually no... but apparently it's a commonly-used method of testing how 
good a band is. If you jump into the crowd and they move out of the way, 
YOU SUCK! ;-)

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Invisible wrote:
> If you jump into the crowd and they move out of the way,
> YOU SUCK! ;-)

You suck *and* you eat floor.

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Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> Invisible wrote:
>> If you jump into the crowd and they move out of the way,
>> YOU SUCK! ;-)
> 
> You suck *and* you eat floor.

Heh. A fitting punishment for some of the acts I've heard!

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