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Did you know, that if you had a ton of old 2 pence pieces (worth 2800
pounds), you could melt them down and sell the ton of copper for the going
price of 4300 pounds.
Surely something has gone wrong when the things we use to represent the
actual money are worth more than the money itself?
IMO just get rid of the 1p and 2p (also 1 cent and 2 cent in Europe).
Didn't this happen in some country already?
(PS: No need to reply if this doesn't interest you)
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scott wrote:
> Did you know, that if you had a ton of old 2 pence pieces (worth 2800
> pounds), you could melt them down and sell the ton of copper for the
> going price of 4300 pounds.
HA! I *knew* it! I always thought the metal must be worth more than the
coin itself... (After all, metal is a pretty expensive material.)
Although... the coins aren't pure copper, are they? Would that affect
the price?
> Surely something has gone wrong when the things we use to represent the
> actual money are worth more than the money itself?
>
> IMO just get rid of the 1p and 2p (also 1 cent and 2 cent in Europe).
> Didn't this happen in some country already?
That would be... interesting. Especially given that all items sell for
£4.99. It's never £5.00, always £4.99.
Ooo, wait... if there were no 1p or 2p coins, it would have to be...
£4.95. We save 4p on current prices! I commend the idea to the house...
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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By the way... Did you know, I once looked up the price for a 7400. (As
in, a TTL quad two-input NAND gate IC.) It was 21.65p. I remember
wondering how the **** they charge you 0.56p...
Obviously, when I bought the thing, they just charged me 22p. (I was
robbed! They took 0.45p off me!) But now I realise... if you buy 100 of
these things, it comes out at £21.65, rather than £22.00. I guess this
is the kind of thing somebody is likely to buy 100 of...
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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"Invisible" <voi### [at] dev null> wrote in message
news:48736b4f$1@news.povray.org...
> Although... the coins aren't pure copper, are they?
No, they are in fact mild steel, or at least some kind of ferrous alloy.
Hold a magnet to a newish copper coin. I say copper because they're actually
copper plated. They started doing this (in the UK), about 8 years ago I
think.
~Steve~
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> Obviously, when I bought the thing, they just charged me 22p. (I was
> robbed! They took 0.45p off me!) But now I realise... if you buy 100 of
> these things, it comes out at £21.65, rather than £22.00. I guess this is
> the kind of thing somebody is likely to buy 100 of...
When I bought some pounds the other week with my euros, they were charging
me something ridiculous like 1.2572448282 Euros for a pound. I guess if I
was converting billions it would make a difference.
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>> Although... the coins aren't pure copper, are they?
>
> No, they are in fact mild steel, or at least some kind of ferrous alloy.
> Hold a magnet to a newish copper coin. I say copper because they're
> actually copper plated. They started doing this (in the UK), about 8 years
> ago I think.
Aha! So we just need to collect the old ones. I propose using a magnet to
sort them.
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scott wrote:
> When I bought some pounds the other week with my euros, they were
> charging me something ridiculous like 1.2572448282 Euros for a pound. I
> guess if I was converting billions it would make a difference.
Yeah, they do that, don't they?
I often wondered... If you were to convert GBP to DNF to USD to CHF to
EUR back to GBP... or something similar... could you end up with
(significantly) more than you started with? I mean, is there some
obscure sequence of currency exchanges where you end up with more than
you stared with?
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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> I often wondered... If you were to convert GBP to DNF to USD to CHF to EUR
> back to GBP... or something similar... could you end up with
> (significantly) more than you started with? I mean, is there some obscure
> sequence of currency exchanges where you end up with more than you stared
> with?
Dunno, write a Haskell program to parse some currency website and find out!
I suspect that any slight advantage you can get would be totally wiped out
by the fees involved.
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Invisible wrote:
> I often wondered... If you were to convert GBP to DNF to USD to CHF to
> EUR back to GBP... or something similar... could you end up with
> (significantly) more than you started with? I mean, is there some
> obscure sequence of currency exchanges where you end up with more than
> you stared with?
>
Yup, sure is. Lots of traders doing it in banks all over the City.
However, more money can be made from Futures and spread betting.
John
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>> I often wondered... If you were to convert GBP to DNF to USD to CHF to
>> EUR back to GBP... or something similar... could you end up with
>> (significantly) more than you started with? I mean, is there some
>> obscure sequence of currency exchanges where you end up with more than
>> you stared with?
>
> Dunno, write a Haskell program to parse some currency website and find out!
Heh. Don't tempt me with such things! ;-)
> I suspect that any slight advantage you can get would be totally wiped
> out by the fees involved.
Yeah, the differences would have to be "large" for this to make sense...
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Doctor John wrote:
> Yup, sure is. Lots of traders doing it in banks all over the City.
> However, more money can be made from Futures and spread betting.
>
> John
Forgot to mention arbitrage as well
John
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scott <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
> Did you know, that if you had a ton of old 2 pence pieces (worth 2800
> pounds), you could melt them down and sell the ton of copper for the going
> price of 4300 pounds.
Do you have any reference for this?
Some info about the equivalent situation in the US:
http://www.snopes.com/business/money/pennycost.asp
--
- Warp
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>> Did you know, that if you had a ton of old 2 pence pieces (worth 2800
>> pounds), you could melt them down and sell the ton of copper for the
>> going
>> price of 4300 pounds.
>
> Do you have any reference for this?
I googled the weight of a 2p coin, then googled the current copper prices,
and did the sums. But as already pointed out, recent coins in the UK are
actually made from copper plated steel, which I assume is worth considerably
less.
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scott wrote:
> I googled the weight of a 2p coin, then googled the current copper
> prices, and did the sums.
Funny enough, when the patent on fiber optics ran out a few decades ago,
the telcos looked at what they had and realized they could dig up all
the copper, replace it with fiber, and do it all "for free" by selling
the copper on the commodities market.
What they failed to appreciate is that the telcos were the single
largest consumer of copper, so when they stopped buying and started
selling, the price of copper went way down.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
Helpful housekeeping hints:
Check your feather pillows for holes
before putting them in the washing machine.
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"Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote in message
news:48737d11@news.povray.org...
> Some info about the equivalent situation in the US:
> http://www.snopes.com/business/money/pennycost.asp
Fine up until the last part, but they engage in some utterly nonsensical
economics of value and cost when they start "dividing" cost by the number of
exchanges.
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somebody wrote:
> Fine up until the last part, but they engage in some utterly nonsensical
> economics of value and cost when they start "dividing" cost by the number of
> exchanges.
Most fiat economomics is nonsensical. Given that, they're basically
saying that the utility of the penny is greater than its face value. In
other words, the government spends $1.20 to put $1.00 worth of pennies
into circulation. They also spend more than a dollar to put a dollar
bill into circulation. And they also reduce the value of the pennies and
dollars already in circulation when they create more of them. So trying
to figure out what a penny "costs" is kind of pointless to start with,
unless you start counting inflation into it.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
Helpful housekeeping hints:
Check your feather pillows for holes
before putting them in the washing machine.
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On Tue, 08 Jul 2008 15:11:21 +0100, Invisible wrote:
>>> I often wondered... If you were to convert GBP to DNF to USD to CHF to
>>> EUR back to GBP... or something similar... could you end up with
>>> (significantly) more than you started with? I mean, is there some
>>> obscure sequence of currency exchanges where you end up with more than
>>> you stared with?
>>
>> Dunno, write a Haskell program to parse some currency website and find
>> out!
>
> Heh. Don't tempt me with such things! ;-)
xe.com is a pretty good reference. ;-)
Jim
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"St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote in message news:48736dbd$1@news.povray.org...
> No, they are in fact mild steel, or at least some kind of ferrous alloy.
> Hold a magnet to a newish copper coin. I say copper because they're
> actually copper plated. They started doing this (in the UK), about 8 years
> ago I think.
Actually, I should add to that, that 'copper' coins were never pure copper
anyway. I think they were always alloyed with some other metal like nickel
or bronze.
~Steve~
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Darren New wrote:
> Funny enough, when the patent on fiber optics ran out a few decades ago,
> the telcos looked at what they had and realized they could dig up all
> the copper, replace it with fiber, and do it all "for free" by selling
> the copper on the commodities market.
>
> What they failed to appreciate is that the telcos were the single
> largest consumer of copper, so when they stopped buying and started
> selling, the price of copper went way down.
EPIC PHAIL.
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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And lo on Tue, 08 Jul 2008 14:43:43 +0100, scott <sco### [at] scottcom> did
spake, saying:
>>> Although... the coins aren't pure copper, are they?
>>
>> No, they are in fact mild steel, or at least some kind of ferrous
>> alloy. Hold a magnet to a newish copper coin. I say copper because
>> they're actually copper plated. They started doing this (in the UK),
>> about 8 years ago I think.
>
> Aha! So we just need to collect the old ones. I propose using a magnet
> to sort them.
Noting on Wikipedia that currently the old 2p coins contain about 3p worth
of copper, would it be worth the cost of stripping it off the steel? Oh
and the Mint also reminds people that tampering with coinage is illegal
(technically I think it's treason as you're tampering with an image of the
monarch)
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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> currently the old 2p coins
What, they might change soon? ;-)
> contain about 3p worth of copper, would it be worth the cost of stripping
> it off the steel?
Hmm Wikipedia says that the old 2p coins were pure Bronze, the new ones are
Bronze plated steel. And apparently Bronze used for coins is about 95%
copper, 5% tin. So I think the old coins you could just melt down and sell
to someone as 95% pure copper, or maybe go about purifying it if it was
economically viable. The new ones I doubt you'd get enough copper off to
cover the cost of the coin.
> Oh and the Mint also reminds people that tampering with coinage is
> illegal (technically I think it's treason as you're tampering with an
> image of the monarch)
Also I suspect it's because the coins aren't yours to tamper with in the
first place.
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I wonder... if we melted down enough coins, would they become rarer and
hence more valuable?
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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And lo on Wed, 09 Jul 2008 13:04:21 +0100, scott <sco### [at] scottcom> did
spake, saying:
>> currently the old 2p coins
>
> What, they might change soon? ;-)
Heck if the price increases I'd expect the Mint to recall them all so they
can melt them down.
>> contain about 3p worth of copper, would it be worth the cost of
>> stripping it off the steel?
>
> Hmm Wikipedia says that the old 2p coins were pure Bronze, the new ones
> are Bronze plated steel. And apparently Bronze used for coins is about
> 95% copper, 5% tin. So I think the old coins you could just melt down
> and sell to someone as 95% pure copper, or maybe go about purifying it
> if it was economically viable. The new ones I doubt you'd get enough
> copper off to cover the cost of the coin.
You're right, my mangling.
>> Oh and the Mint also reminds people that tampering with coinage is
>> illegal (technically I think it's treason as you're tampering with an
>> image of the monarch)
>
> Also I suspect it's because the coins aren't yours to tamper with in the
> first place.
No they're the monarch's.
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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Phil Cook wrote:
>
> No they're the monarch's.
>
Gawd, sive 'er majesty!
John
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On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 14:47:28 +0100, Doctor John <joh### [at] homecom> wrote:
>Phil Cook wrote:
>>
>> No they're the monarch's.
>>
>
>Gawd, sive 'er majesty!
>
Render unto Caesar etc.
Is it getting any easier?
--
Regards
Stephen
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"scott" <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
....
> Surely something has gone wrong when the things we use to represent the
> actual money are worth more than the money itself?
....
I agree heartily. I've long felt that the people responsible for our currency
systems are a few ningis short of triganic pu.
;-)
Best Regards,
Mike C.
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Mike the Elder wrote:
> I agree heartily. I've long felt that the people responsible for our currency
> systems are a few ningis short of triganic pu.
Are you seriously suggesting the use of Flainian Pobble Beads?
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message
news:48736b4f$1@news.povray.org...
> > IMO just get rid of the 1p and 2p (also 1 cent and 2 cent in Europe).
> > Didn't this happen in some country already?
Yup. SA lost its 1 and 2 cent coins quite some time back
> That would be... interesting. Especially given that all items sell for
> £4.99. It's never £5.00, always £4.99.
>
> Ooo, wait... if there were no 1p or 2p coins, it would have to be...
> £4.95. We save 4p on current prices! I commend the idea to the house...
What they do down here is to leave the prices at .99 and then round the
total bill down to the nearest 5c. So at best, you save 4c on your entire
purchase, not per item.
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Stephen wrote:
>
> Is it getting any easier?
Managed to have a shower this a.m. without (much) assistance and I'm
allowed to sit at an angle so I don't have to type upside down.
All in all better but I doubt I'll be allowed to go gallivanting around
town for at least a week or so :-(
Don't worry. Think of all the money I can save to be spent on a serious
session :-)
John
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Invisible wrote:
> Mike the Elder wrote:
>
>> I agree heartily. I've long felt that the people responsible for our
>> currency
>> systems are a few ningis short of triganic pu.
>
> Are you seriously suggesting the use of Flainian Pobble Beads?
>
Can't be worse than our present system ;-)
John
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On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 17:16:10 +0100, Doctor John <joh### [at] homecom> wrote:
>Stephen wrote:
>>
>> Is it getting any easier?
>Managed to have a shower this a.m.
Very good :)
>without (much) assistance and I'm
>allowed to sit at an angle so I don't have to type upside down.
>All in all better but I doubt I'll be allowed to go gallivanting around
>town for at least a week or so :-(
>Don't worry. Think of all the money I can save to be spent on a serious
>session :-)
Yaki da, boyo :)
--
Regards
Stephen
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On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 18:02:22 +0200, "Gail Shaw" <initialsurname@sentech sa dot
com> wrote:
>
>What they do down here is to leave the prices at .99 and then round the
>total bill down to the nearest 5c. So at best, you save 4c on your entire
>purchase, not per item.
>
They are not daft, whatever you say :)
--
Regards
Stephen
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On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 17:17:23 +0100, Doctor John <joh### [at] homecom> wrote:
>Invisible wrote:
>> Mike the Elder wrote:
>>
>>> I agree heartily. I've long felt that the people responsible for our
>>> currency
>>> systems are a few ningis short of triganic pu.
>>
>> Are you seriously suggesting the use of Flainian Pobble Beads?
>>
>Can't be worse than our present system ;-)
>
>John
How about - Librae, Solidi and Denarii :)
--
Regards
Stephen
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Stephen wrote:
> How about - Librae, Solidi and Denarii :)
Have you been taking lysergic acid diethylamide again? :-P
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 19:00:19 +0100, Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>Stephen wrote:
>
>> How about - Librae, Solidi and Denarii :)
>
>Have you been taking lysergic acid diethylamide again? :-P
Not for yonks :)
--
Regards
Stephen
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Invisible wrote:
> Are you seriously suggesting the use of Flainian Pobble Beads?
Google: Perfect for making yourself appear more knowledgable than you
actually are.(tm)
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Invisible wrote:
> Mike the Elder wrote:
>
>> I agree heartily. I've long felt that the people responsible for our
>> currency
>> systems are a few ningis short of triganic pu.
>
> Are you seriously suggesting the use of Flainian Pobble Beads?
No good; only exchangeable for other Flainian Pobble Beads.
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>> Are you seriously suggesting the use of Flainian Pobble Beads?
>
> No good; only exchangeable for other Flainian Pobble Beads.
That's not *such* a big problem, is it?
Also... http://www.ningi.com/
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Invisible wrote:
>>> Are you seriously suggesting the use of Flainian Pobble Beads?
>>
>> No good; only exchangeable for other Flainian Pobble Beads.
>
> That's not *such* a big problem, is it?
>
> Also... http://www.ningi.com/
Ah, you had my hopes up then. I was expecting Hubble Telescope images. :)
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Bill Pragnell wrote:
>> Also... http://www.ningi.com/
>
> Ah, you had my hopes up then. I was expecting Hubble Telescope images. :)
LOL! No, just demonstrating that companies pick really stupid names for
themselves. (E.g., apparently there's one called "Smeg". Nice...)
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Invisible wrote:
> scott wrote:
>
>> When I bought some pounds the other week with my euros, they were
>> charging me something ridiculous like 1.2572448282 Euros for a pound.
>> I guess if I was converting billions it would make a difference.
>
> Yeah, they do that, don't they?
>
> I often wondered... If you were to convert GBP to DNF to USD to CHF to
> EUR back to GBP... or something similar... could you end up with
> (significantly) more than you started with? I mean, is there some
> obscure sequence of currency exchanges where you end up with more than
> you stared with?
>
Probably, but it wouldn't be a set sequence all the time.
Look at it as a Traveling Salesman problem, costs to move to each point,
with the costs constantly changing. I once took a snapshot of the
currency exchange rates and spotted an easy route, but it changed not 10
seconds later (and it would have netted about 2 cents for every 1000 USD
before fees). Throw enough computers at it, with enough money in each
currency to make the moving easier, and who knows.
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scott wrote:
> Did you know, that if you had a ton of old 2 pence pieces (worth 2800
> pounds), you could melt them down and sell the ton of copper for the
> going price of 4300 pounds.
Which is why the old pence pieces will be dropping rapidly out of
circulation, if they haven't started to already.
The old US penny weighs in, I'm told, at 1/159 of a pound, which means
that when copper sells for more than 1.59 USD, it's time to melt the old
ones down for sale.
Recent US pennies are made from copper-coated zinc, which is not nearly
as worthwhile.
The collector value of the old wheat penny (which was no longer minted
after 1958/1959) is greater than the copper content, so melting them
down does not make any economic sense.
> Surely something has gone wrong when the things we use to represent the
> actual money are worth more than the money itself?
Back in the early '80's I saw an East German Mark coin. It was made of
aluminum, and thus was just like those cheap toy coins that are often
given away as promotional items. At the time the East German Mark was
worth about one-tenth of the West German Mark, and thus worth about four
cents in US money.
Regards,
John
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scott wrote:
> Did you know, that if you had a ton of old 2 pence pieces (worth 2800
> pounds), you could melt them down and sell the ton of copper for the
> going price of 4300 pounds.
>
> Surely something has gone wrong when the things we use to represent the
> actual money are worth more than the money itself?
Here's a thought: How much money does it take to make a sheet of special
paper, emboss a watermark onto it, weave a thin strip of foil through
it, print it with 15 unique inks at a trillion DPI on both sides, print
it again with UV ink, print a hologram onto it, and label it in six
places with a globally-unique code number?
Cos that is apparently how they make bank notes! ;-)
I'd wager it costs a *tad* more than £5 to make a £5 note...
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> I'd wager it costs a *tad* more than £5 to make a £5 note...
It doesn't, once you do it in mass amounts.
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> I'd wager it costs a *tad* more than £5 to make a £5 note...
You'd think it would cost more than a fiver to make a CD-ROM drive too, but
apparently not.
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