And lo on Fri, 04 Jul 2008 12:01:07 +0100, Jim Henderson  
<nos### [at] nospamcom> did spake, saying:

> On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 11:27:26 +0100, Invisible wrote:
>
>>>> No problem. There's no charge for this service. Please contact Phil
>>>> Cook in my absence. ;-)

But I charge by the word.

>>> And another laugh.  I might actually get some sleep yet tonight. :-)
>>
>> Yeah - dude, what the hell?? WHY ARE YOU AWAKE?! x_x
>
> Right now because I'm talking to you.  5 AM now.
>
> Today's the 4th of July here, so I don't have to work today.

Too many giant spaceships hovering over the cities causing congestion?

Pfft uppity colonials, you don't see us celebrating Consitutional Monarchy  
Day.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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>>>>> No problem. There's no charge for this service. Please contact Phil
>>>>> Cook in my absence. ;-)
> 
> But I charge by the word.

He does, you know...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Invisible wrote:
> As does the fact that SSL and TLS both run over TCP, yet OpenVPN seems 
> to be using UPD. That looks like a big enough deviation from the 
> standard that I'm left wondering how many design decisions have been 
> made with potential security implications.

Yes, exactly. That, and all the other things you might want to do (like 
be behind a NAT) that OpenVPN doesn't handle.

Note that SSL and TLS are both technologically the same thing. The 
difference is in provisioning. That is, it's SSL if you start the 
protocol dance as soon as you open the port (because you're talking on 
port 443 instead of port 80, for example). It's TLS if you open the 
connection, do some negotiation, *then* start encrypting, such as with 
BEEP or Secure SMTP or anything else that has a "STARTTLS" command.

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
  Helpful housekeeping hints:
   Check your feather pillows for holes
    before putting them in the washing machine.

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>> As does the fact that SSL and TLS both run over TCP, yet OpenVPN seems 
>> to be using UPD. That looks like a big enough deviation from the 
>> standard that I'm left wondering how many design decisions have been 
>> made with potential security implications.
> 
> Yes, exactly. That, and all the other things you might want to do (like 
> be behind a NAT) that OpenVPN doesn't handle.

I thought I saw somewhere that OpenVPN *does* work with NAT, but IPSec 
doesn't. (Because NAT involves packet modification, which IPSec is 
obviously designed to prevent.)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> I thought I saw somewhere that OpenVPN *does* work with NAT, but IPSec 
> doesn't. (Because NAT involves packet modification, which IPSec is 
> obviously designed to prevent.)

No, what they said was that if you want IPSec to work with NAT, you had 
to exclude the IP addresses from the hash calculation with a 
configuration. Since OpenVPN never even offers the opportunity to 
include the IP addresses, it's "simpler" and therefore more secure.

Huh?

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
  Helpful housekeeping hints:
   Check your feather pillows for holes
    before putting them in the washing machine.

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On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 15:17:37 +0100, "Phil Cook"
<phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:

>
>Pfft uppity colonials, you don't see us celebrating Consitutional Monarchy  
>Day.

A bit late but I always celebrate "Good Riddance Day" ;)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 18:40:54 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

> I thought I saw somewhere that OpenVPN *does* work with NAT, but IPSec
> doesn't. (Because NAT involves packet modification, which IPSec is
> obviously designed to prevent.)

IPSec can work over NATted connections, you just need a router that will 
handle it.  The last couple Linksys routers I've had (and the Belkin I 
currently own, IIRC) have supported IPSec over NAT.

Jim

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On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 13:33:49 +0100, Invisible wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
> 
>> Ah, I see.  There are so many Jamies' in the world.
> 
> And I kinda promised that if I ever have children... well, there'll be
> *another* Jamie in the world. ;-)

:-)

>> But hey, it sounds
>> like you've got at least *one* friend.  Actually, though, I know you
>> have more than that. ;-)
> 
> Meh. There are people I sometimes speak to on teh interwebs. But human
> beings that I can actually go hang out with? Now that's a tiny list. :-(

Hey, the same goes here.  Offhand, I can think of about 2 people outside 
of work that I will just hang out with - and they're my immediate 
family.  I'll occasionally have lunch with one of my instructors or 
coworkers at lunch.  Very occasionally, I'll get together with the 
neighbors across the alley from us, or the ones next door to us.

>>> Seriously, Zazzle boasts that you can have your order within 24 hours,
>>> but that's only actually true if you line in North America. For the
>>> rest of the world... it takes rather a long time. :-( I wish they
>>> would set up a facility somewhere in mainland Europe...
>> 
>> Seems a lot of companies operate that way.  We have a similar
>> experience when ordering DVDs from amazon.co.uk as well.
> 
> Really? I usually find Amazon to be quite good...

You're not in the US ordering from a.co.uk, though.  When I order from 
Amazon US, delivery time is just fine - but from the UK, it takes a while 
longer.

Jim

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On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 15:17:37 +0100, Phil Cook wrote:

> And lo on Fri, 04 Jul 2008 12:01:07 +0100, Jim Henderson
> <nos### [at] nospamcom> did spake, saying:
> 
>> On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 11:27:26 +0100, Invisible wrote:
>>
>>>>> No problem. There's no charge for this service. Please contact Phil
>>>>> Cook in my absence. ;-)
> 
> But I charge by the word.
> 
>>>> And another laugh.  I might actually get some sleep yet tonight. :-)
>>>
>>> Yeah - dude, what the hell?? WHY ARE YOU AWAKE?! x_x
>>
>> Right now because I'm talking to you.  5 AM now.
>>
>> Today's the 4th of July here, so I don't have to work today.
> 
> Too many giant spaceships hovering over the cities causing congestion?

Yeah, something like that.

> Pfft uppity colonials, you don't see us celebrating Consitutional
> Monarchy Day.

Heh, well, I know a number of Brits who celebrate having rid themselves 
of us, so that's fair. ;-)  As for us, we celebrated by calming cats 
during the fireworks - but the fireworks themselves have been very muted 
this year out here.

Oh, and I cooked us some *excellent* steaks.  I managed - for the first 
time - to cook medium-rare steaks instead of cooking them until they were 
charcoal.  You'd be able to see more about it in my LJ.

It's kinda ironic - I'm perfectly happy having some reheated pizza or 
canned soup, but I somehow do seem to pull together some pretty good home 
cooked food every once in a while - and I enjoy it, which just really 
surprises me.

Jim

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On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 17:34:55 +0100, Stephen wrote:

> On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 15:17:37 +0100, "Phil Cook"
> <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Pfft uppity colonials, you don't see us celebrating Consitutional
>>Monarchy Day.
> 
> A bit late but I always celebrate "Good Riddance Day" ;)

See, Phil?  This is what I was just saying. ;-)

Jim

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Jim Henderson wrote:

> You're not in the US ordering from a.co.uk, though.  When I order from 
> Amazon US, delivery time is just fine - but from the UK, it takes a while 
> longer.

Heh. My boss gave me some gift vouchers from Amazon.com for Christmas. 
So I guess I won't be using them then. :-/

(Just another example of the self-evident fact that Americans typically 
don't comprehend that there are parts of the world that aren't America.)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 09:34:45 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
> 
>> You're not in the US ordering from a.co.uk, though.  When I order from
>> Amazon US, delivery time is just fine - but from the UK, it takes a
>> while longer.
> 
> Heh. My boss gave me some gift vouchers from Amazon.com for Christmas.
> So I guess I won't be using them then. :-/

You can send them to me. ;-)  (Seriously, you can place the order, it 
might just take a little longer to get there)

> (Just another example of the self-evident fact that Americans typically
> don't comprehend that there are parts of the world that aren't America.)

Be careful about generalizations.  There are quite a few of us who do 
understand that we're not the entire world.

Jim

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On 06-Jul-08 20:17, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 09:34:45 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> 
>> Jim Henderson wrote:
>>
>>> You're not in the US ordering from a.co.uk, though.  When I order from
>>> Amazon US, delivery time is just fine - but from the UK, it takes a
>>> while longer.
>> Heh. My boss gave me some gift vouchers from Amazon.com for Christmas.
>> So I guess I won't be using them then. :-/
> 
> You can send them to me. ;-)  (Seriously, you can place the order, it 
> might just take a little longer to get there)
> 
I have used both the UK and the USA ones and it does work. Presumably if 
you order something from .com you get a box with .uk on it anyway. At 
least when I order something at .uk I always get packages from .de even 
when the item is not listed at .de
>> (Just another example of the self-evident fact that Americans typically
>> don't comprehend that there are parts of the world that aren't America.)
> 
> Be careful about generalizations.  There are quite a few of us who do 
> understand that we're not the entire world.
> 
I would say everyone that is regular in this NG to begin with.

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Jim Henderson wrote:

> You can send them to me. ;-)  (Seriously, you can place the order, it 
> might just take a little longer to get there)

More to the point: apparently I have to sign up for a new, seperate 
account. (I can't just reuse my UK one.) FTW?

>> (Just another example of the self-evident fact that Americans typically
>> don't comprehend that there are parts of the world that aren't America.)
> 
> Be careful about generalizations.  There are quite a few of us who do 
> understand that we're not the entire world.

I did say "typically". I'm sure there are plenty of Americans who know 
more geography them me. (Wouldn't be hard, would it?) But unless it's 
just the policy of my particular company to only hire stupid people, 
most of them seem to interlectually comprehend the fact that the UK 
isn't the USA, but on a practical level forget this fact at every 
possible juncture.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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And lo on Sat, 05 Jul 2008 20:23:16 +0100, Jim Henderson  
<nos### [at] nospamcom> did spake, saying:

> On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 15:17:37 +0100, Phil Cook wrote:
>
>> And lo on Fri, 04 Jul 2008 12:01:07 +0100, Jim Henderson
>> <nos### [at] nospamcom> did spake, saying:
>>
> Oh, and I cooked us some *excellent* steaks.  I managed - for the first
> time - to cook medium-rare steaks instead of cooking them until they were
> charcoal.  You'd be able to see more about it in my LJ.

Oh they're no good unless they charcoal briquettes on the outside and raw  
on the inside :-)

> It's kinda ironic - I'm perfectly happy having some reheated pizza or
> canned soup,

The food group of the gods.

> but I somehow do seem to pull together some pretty good home
> cooked food every once in a while - and I enjoy it, which just really
> surprises me.

Well I've just got an oven back so I'll be able to return to home-cooked  
meals; found that I had to go buy a new wok though.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 10:13:06 +0100, "Phil Cook"
<phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:

>
>Well I've just got an oven back so I'll be able to return to home-cooked  
>meals; found that I had to go buy a new wok though.

Strange, using a wok in an oven :)

I must admit that home cooked food is just about all I eat. Except for breakfast
and when I have to eat out.
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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And lo on Mon, 07 Jul 2008 11:04:20 +0100, Stephen <mcavoysAT@aolDOTcom>  
did spake, saying:

> On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 10:13:06 +0100, "Phil Cook"
> <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
>
>> Well I've just got an oven back so I'll be able to return to home-cooked
>> meals; found that I had to go buy a new wok though.
>
> Strange, using a wok in an oven :)

Does great roast potatoes. Heh no a shiny new hob to match the oven.

> I must admit that home cooked food is just about all I eat. Except for  
> breakfast and when I have to eat out.

Ditto. I'll nuke the odd meal if I know I'm going to be running around or  
get a pizza or something in if I'm just feeling lazy (way too many  
takeaways around here), but the majority of my meals are home-cooked.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 11:31:01 +0100, "Phil Cook"
<phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:

>> Strange, using a wok in an oven :)
>
>Does great roast potatoes. Heh no a shiny new hob to match the oven.
>
I take it that you have a metal handle, lucky you.

>> I must admit that home cooked food is just about all I eat. Except for  
>> breakfast and when I have to eat out.
>
>Ditto. I'll nuke the odd meal if I know I'm going to be running around or  
>get a pizza or something in if I'm just feeling lazy (way too many  
>takeaways around here), but the majority of my meals are home-cooked.
>

You should see where I live, two Caribbean take-a-ways, three Chinese, six
Iranian/Iraqi/Persian, one African restaurant and a really good fish and chip
shop. All within ten minutes walk. But to counter that we have lots of
Caribbean, Iranian and Chinese food shops as well. Oh! I forgot about the Indian
restaurants and the English butcher.
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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And lo on Mon, 07 Jul 2008 11:46:12 +0100, Stephen <mcavoysAT@aolDOTcom>  
did spake, saying:

> On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 11:31:01 +0100, "Phil Cook"
> <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
>
>>> Strange, using a wok in an oven :)
>>
>> Does great roast potatoes. Heh no a shiny new hob to match the oven.
>>
> I take it that you have a metal handle, lucky you.

Yep, best way to gauge the heat of the pan.

>>> I must admit that home cooked food is just about all I eat. Except for
>>> breakfast and when I have to eat out.
>>
>> Ditto. I'll nuke the odd meal if I know I'm going to be running around  
>> or get a pizza or something in if I'm just feeling lazy (way too many
>> takeaways around here), but the majority of my meals are home-cooked.
>
> You should see where I live, two Caribbean take-a-ways, three Chinese,  
> six Iranian/Iraqi/Persian, one African restaurant and a really good fish  
> and chip shop. All within ten minutes walk. But to counter that we have  
> lots of
> Caribbean, Iranian and Chinese food shops as well. Oh! I forgot about  
> the Indian restaurants and the English butcher.

Well we don't have the variety, but four chippies, two Indian restaurants,  
three Chinese, and two pizza/kebab houses; plus the Subway and three other  
sandwich shops and four independent butchers. Plus the caff, a tea shop  
and a cross between a restaurant and a tea room; the cake shop and the  
sweet shop. Oh I'm not counting pub food that would be another  
three/fourish depending on who you count and how far out you go. Come the  
renovations in town they're expecting coffee shops and more tea shops.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 14:24:50 +0100, "Phil Cook"
<phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:

>> I take it that you have a metal handle, lucky you.
>
>Yep, best way to gauge the heat of the pan.
>
It sure is ;)

>>>> I must admit that home cooked food is just about all I eat. Except for
>>>> breakfast and when I have to eat out.
>>>
>>> Ditto. I'll nuke the odd meal if I know I'm going to be running around  
>>> or get a pizza or something in if I'm just feeling lazy (way too many
>>> takeaways around here), but the majority of my meals are home-cooked.
>>
I work away from home a lot and appreciate home cooking, even my own. I can't
understand why "homely" is not attractive in certain societies ;)

> Come the renovations in town they're expecting coffee shops.

Hmm!
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 21:54:46 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
> 
>> You can send them to me. ;-)  (Seriously, you can place the order, it
>> might just take a little longer to get there)
> 
> More to the point: apparently I have to sign up for a new, seperate
> account. (I can't just reuse my UK one.) FTW?

It amazes me how many companies don't understand the idea of identity 
management.  I work with a company on course evaluations and I have 3 or 
4 different logins for different "roles".  I should go work for them and 
show them how to manage the identities - would make it so much easier for 
their customers.

>>> (Just another example of the self-evident fact that Americans
>>> typically don't comprehend that there are parts of the world that
>>> aren't America.)
>> 
>> Be careful about generalizations.  There are quite a few of us who do
>> understand that we're not the entire world.
> 
> I did say "typically". I'm sure there are plenty of Americans who know
> more geography them me. (Wouldn't be hard, would it?) But unless it's
> just the policy of my particular company to only hire stupid people,
> most of them seem to interlectually comprehend the fact that the UK
> isn't the USA, but on a practical level forget this fact at every
> possible juncture.

Sorry, were you talking? ;-)  (Just kidding)

Well, I don't know where your company's offices are here in the US or how 
widespread they are, nor do I know how big your location is in the UK.  I 
worked once for a company that was headquartered in Austria - never 
actually did have any dealings with people in that office, but we were 
run *mostly* independently of the parent, too.  I think in the 3 years I 
worked there, my boss made 2 trips to Austria and Germany.  I never knew 
anything about their infrastructure at all, other than that they had an 
AS/400 of some sort.

Jim

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On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 20:43:37 +0200, andrel wrote:


>> Be careful about generalizations.  There are quite a few of us who do
>> understand that we're not the entire world.
>> 
> I would say everyone that is regular in this NG to begin with.

Yep.  :-)

Jim

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On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 10:13:06 +0100, Phil Cook wrote:

> And lo on Sat, 05 Jul 2008 20:23:16 +0100, Jim Henderson
> <nos### [at] nospamcom> did spake, saying:
> 
>> On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 15:17:37 +0100, Phil Cook wrote:
>>
>>> And lo on Fri, 04 Jul 2008 12:01:07 +0100, Jim Henderson
>>> <nos### [at] nospamcom> did spake, saying:
>>>
>> Oh, and I cooked us some *excellent* steaks.  I managed - for the first
>> time - to cook medium-rare steaks instead of cooking them until they
>> were charcoal.  You'd be able to see more about it in my LJ.
> 
> Oh they're no good unless they charcoal briquettes on the outside and
> raw on the inside :-)

LOL, not quite to my taste, but a good sear is hard to beat, I'll agree 
with that.

>> It's kinda ironic - I'm perfectly happy having some reheated pizza or
>> canned soup,
> 
> The food group of the gods.

LOL

>> but I somehow do seem to pull together some pretty good home cooked
>> food every once in a while - and I enjoy it, which just really
>> surprises me.
> 
> Well I've just got an oven back so I'll be able to return to home-cooked
> meals; found that I had to go buy a new wok though.

I was thinking some stir-fry veg would have been good with the steaks.

Jim

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On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 14:24:50 +0100, Phil Cook wrote:

>> I take it that you have a metal handle, lucky you.
> 
> Yep, best way to gauge the heat of the pan.

Best?  Maybe most effective, but I can think of better ways than having 
to put burn gel on your hand...

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Jim Henderson wrote:

> Best?  Maybe most effective, but I can think of better ways than having 
> to put burn gel on your hand...
> 
> Jim

Before you put oil in the pan, a quick touch of the surface will tell 
you if it's hot enough. Don't do it after you put oil in the pan, 
though.. that'll land you squarely in the burn ward.

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 11:48:20 -0500, Mike Raiford wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
> 
>> Best?  Maybe most effective, but I can think of better ways than having
>> to put burn gel on your hand...
>> 
>> Jim
> 
> Before you put oil in the pan, a quick touch of the surface will tell
> you if it's hot enough. Don't do it after you put oil in the pan,
> though.. that'll land you squarely in the burn ward.

An IR thermometer will also tell you if it's hot enough or not - and 
won't even singe your fingers. :-)

Jim

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On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 11:48:20 -0500, Mike Raiford <mra### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:

>
>Before you put oil in the pan, a quick touch of the surface will tell 
>you if it's hot enough. Don't do it after you put oil in the pan, 
>though.. that'll land you squarely in the burn ward.

Make sure your fingers are dry as well :)

Years ago I learned the trick of putting my fingers in hot water to see (?) how
close to boiling it is. It terrifies everyone who sees it and my wife shouts at
me. Heigh ho :)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Jim Henderson wrote:

> It amazes me how many companies don't understand the idea of identity 
> management.

Oh HELL yeah!

> Sorry, were you talking? ;-)  (Just kidding)

._.

> Well, I don't know where your company's offices are here in the US or how 
> widespread they are, nor do I know how big your location is in the UK.

Out HQ in Indiana (??) is 10x larger than our UK base. We have 5... uh, 
4 bases in the USA, but only one in the UK. This makes us a 
"multinational corporation". (Yes, you heard right.)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 19:48:14 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
> 
>> It amazes me how many companies don't understand the idea of identity
>> management.
> 
> Oh HELL yeah!

But it seems you have at least a rudimentary grasp of the concepts - have 
you done any integration work for disparate systems?

>> Sorry, were you talking? ;-)  (Just kidding)
> 
> ._.

Couldn't resist. ;-)

>> Well, I don't know where your company's offices are here in the US or
>> how widespread they are, nor do I know how big your location is in the
>> UK.
> 
> Out HQ in Indiana (??) is 10x larger than our UK base. We have 5... uh,
> 4 bases in the USA, but only one in the UK. This makes us a
> "multinational corporation". (Yes, you heard right.)

What's the variance in site size?

Jim

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>>> Well, I don't know where your company's offices are here in the US or
>>> how widespread they are, nor do I know how big your location is in the
>>> UK.
>> Out HQ in Indiana (??) is 10x larger than our UK base. We have 5... uh,
>> 4 bases in the USA, but only one in the UK. This makes us a
>> "multinational corporation". (Yes, you heard right.)
> 
> What's the variance in site size?

IDK. AFAIK, the UK is "significantly" smaller than any other site.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 20:59:45 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>>>> Well, I don't know where your company's offices are here in the US or
>>>> how widespread they are, nor do I know how big your location is in
>>>> the UK.
>>> Out HQ in Indiana (??) is 10x larger than our UK base. We have 5...
>>> uh, 4 bases in the USA, but only one in the UK. This makes us a
>>> "multinational corporation". (Yes, you heard right.)
>> 
>> What's the variance in site size?
> 
> IDK. AFAIK, the UK is "significantly" smaller than any other site.

Round numbers about how many people?  50, 100, 1000?

Jim

Post a reply to this message

>>>>> Well, I don't know where your company's offices are here in the US or
>>>>> how widespread they are, nor do I know how big your location is in
>>>>> the UK.
>>>> Out HQ in Indiana (??) is 10x larger than our UK base. We have 5...
>>>> uh, 4 bases in the USA, but only one in the UK. This makes us a
>>>> "multinational corporation". (Yes, you heard right.)
>>> What's the variance in site size?
>> IDK. AFAIK, the UK is "significantly" smaller than any other site.
> 
> Round numbers about how many people?  50, 100, 1000?

UK is 30 people, HQ is about 300. Don't know about the other sites.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 21:30:33 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>> Round numbers about how many people?  50, 100, 1000?
> 
> UK is 30 people, HQ is about 300. Don't know about the other sites.

That explains a lot about management's attitudes....small sites are very 
easy to not include in planning, especially when they're 10% the size of 
the main site.

That also makes it more challenging to be heard.

Jim

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On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 16:55:51 -0400, Jim Henderson wrote:

> That also makes it more challenging to be heard.

(But of course you know this from experience)

Jim

Post a reply to this message

>> UK is 30 people, HQ is about 300. Don't know about the other sites.
> 
> That explains a lot about management's attitudes....small sites are very 
> easy to not include in planning, especially when they're 10% the size of 
> the main site.
> 
> That also makes it more challenging to be heard.

Oh, it's hard enough to make my voice heard within the UK site. The new 
UK management sees the IT guys at HQ as gods, and considers me to be 
little more than the tea boy. If I say one thing and HQ say another, I 
am always ignored. Actually, scrub that. I am always ignored. Everybody 
just assumes I don't know what I'm talking about.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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And lo on Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:07:00 +0100, Stephen <mcavoysAT@aolDOTcom>  
did spake, saying:

> On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 14:24:50 +0100, "Phil Cook"
> <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
>
>>> I take it that you have a metal handle, lucky you.
>>
>> Yep, best way to gauge the heat of the pan.
>>
> It sure is ;)

On a coincidental note BBC2 had a Chinese cooking program on last night.  
Her tip for the best type of wok - carbon steel with a wooden handle;  
guess what type I've got :-)


-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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Jim Henderson wrote:

>> Before you put oil in the pan, a quick touch of the surface will tell
>> you if it's hot enough. Don't do it after you put oil in the pan,
>> though.. that'll land you squarely in the burn ward.
> 
> An IR thermometer will also tell you if it's hot enough or not - and 
> won't even singe your fingers. :-)
> 
> Jim

That's a cool idea, but where's the fun in that? :)

Hmm... This part of the thread has strayed way off topic. o.O Just 
noticed the title had something to do with cryptography...

Post a reply to this message

Phil Cook wrote:

> 
> On a coincidental note BBC2 had a Chinese cooking program on last night. 
> Her tip for the best type of wok - carbon steel with a wooden handle; 
> guess what type I've got :-)
> 
> 

Aluminum with a plastic handle? <Grin,Duck>

Post a reply to this message

>> An IR thermometer will also tell you if it's hot enough or not - and 
>> won't even singe your fingers. :-)
> 
> That's a cool idea, but where's the fun in that? :)

http://blog.orphi.me.uk/about/temperatures

> Hmm... This part of the thread has strayed way off topic. o.O Just 
> noticed the title had something to do with cryptography...

VPN software, actually.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On Tue, 08 Jul 2008 09:04:13 +0100, "Phil Cook"
<phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:

>guess what type I've got :-)

Type O Rh + ?

:)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Invisible wrote:

> It appears the report was written by somebody other than the author. But 
> then, comments like "OpenVPN seems to be using SSL" make me suspicious. 
> As does the fact that SSL and TLS both run over TCP, yet OpenVPN seems 
> to be using UPD. That looks like a big enough deviation from the 
> standard that I'm left wondering how many design decisions have been 
> made with potential security implications.
> 
> It's not like OpenVPN just calls the OpenSSH crypto library to do its 
> bidding; it looks like a complete new implementation.

Wikipedia claims OpenVPN uses the OpenSSL library.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenVPN

Still unclear how it runs SSL over UDP...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On Tue, 08 Jul 2008 15:59:53 +0100, Invisible wrote:

> Invisible wrote:
> 
>> It appears the report was written by somebody other than the author.
>> But then, comments like "OpenVPN seems to be using SSL" make me
>> suspicious. As does the fact that SSL and TLS both run over TCP, yet
>> OpenVPN seems to be using UPD. That looks like a big enough deviation
>> from the standard that I'm left wondering how many design decisions
>> have been made with potential security implications.
>> 
>> It's not like OpenVPN just calls the OpenSSH crypto library to do its
>> bidding; it looks like a complete new implementation.
> 
> Wikipedia claims OpenVPN uses the OpenSSL library.

http://openvpn.net/index.php/documentation/manuals/openvpn-21.html - 
under "Description":

"OpenVPN is tightly bound to the OpenSSL library, and derives much of its 
crypto capabilities from it."

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenVPN
> 
> Still unclear how it runs SSL over UDP...

From the above quote, it maybe doesn't, but instead uses the crypto from 
openSSL.

Jim

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On Tue, 08 Jul 2008 07:32:56 -0500, Mike Raiford wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
> 
>>> Before you put oil in the pan, a quick touch of the surface will tell
>>> you if it's hot enough. Don't do it after you put oil in the pan,
>>> though.. that'll land you squarely in the burn ward.
>> 
>> An IR thermometer will also tell you if it's hot enough or not - and
>> won't even singe your fingers. :-)
>> 
>> Jim
> 
> That's a cool idea, but where's the fun in that? :)

Well, if you consider going to the ER for burns fun, then have at it.  I 
have different ideas of what constitutes "fun", and not being burned is a 
part of all of them. ;-)

> Hmm... This part of the thread has strayed way off topic. o.O Just
> noticed the title had something to do with cryptography...

Oh no!  Thread drift! :-)

Jim

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On Tue, 08 Jul 2008 09:00:45 +0100, Invisible wrote:

>>> UK is 30 people, HQ is about 300. Don't know about the other sites.
>> 
>> That explains a lot about management's attitudes....small sites are
>> very easy to not include in planning, especially when they're 10% the
>> size of the main site.
>> 
>> That also makes it more challenging to be heard.
> 
> Oh, it's hard enough to make my voice heard within the UK site. The new
> UK management sees the IT guys at HQ as gods, and considers me to be
> little more than the tea boy. If I say one thing and HQ say another, I
> am always ignored. Actually, scrub that. I am always ignored. Everybody
> just assumes I don't know what I'm talking about.

Then you need to make your voice heard.  Tell the auditor "HQ won't let 
me - I've tried telling them and they don't listen to me - so talk to 
them" and then wait.

One of two possible outcomes:  The boss will start listening to you, or 
the boss will get pissed off and sack you (which means you don't have to 
do the 6 month notice thing or find your own replacement, right?) so 
you're free to find something else to do.

Jim

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Invisible wrote:
>>> An IR thermometer will also tell you if it's hot enough or not - and 
>>> won't even singe your fingers. :-)
>>
>> That's a cool idea, but where's the fun in that? :)
> 
> http://blog.orphi.me.uk/about/temperatures
> 

Hmmm. I want one.

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On 08-Jul-08 10:04, Phil Cook wrote:
> And lo on Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:07:00 +0100, Stephen <mcavoysAT@aolDOTcom> 
> did spake, saying:
> 
>> On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 14:24:50 +0100, "Phil Cook"
>> <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
>>
>>>> I take it that you have a metal handle, lucky you.
>>>
>>> Yep, best way to gauge the heat of the pan.
>>>
>> It sure is ;)
> 
> On a coincidental note BBC2 had a Chinese cooking program on last night. 
> Her tip for the best type of wok - carbon steel with a wooden handle; 
> guess what type I've got :-)
> 
wooden with a carbon steel handle?

Post a reply to this message

>> http://blog.orphi.me.uk/about/temperatures
> 
> Hmmm. I want one.

...and another victim succumbs to my viral marketing, muhuhuhuh!!!

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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>> Still unclear how it runs SSL over UDP...
> 
> From the above quote, it maybe doesn't, but instead uses the crypto from 
> openSSL.

Well, the documentation claims that OpenVPN is "an SSL VPN". But since 
SSL is defined to work over TCP... hmm. ;-)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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And lo on Tue, 08 Jul 2008 20:17:21 +0100, andrel  
<a_l### [at] hotmailcom> did spake, saying:

> On 08-Jul-08 10:04, Phil Cook wrote:
>> And lo on Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:07:00 +0100, Stephen  
>> <mcavoysAT@aolDOTcom> did spake, saying:
>>
>>> On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 14:24:50 +0100, "Phil Cook"
>>> <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I take it that you have a metal handle, lucky you.
>>>>
>>>> Yep, best way to gauge the heat of the pan.
>>>>
>>> It sure is ;)
>>  On a coincidental note BBC2 had a Chinese cooking program on last  
>> night. Her tip for the best type of wok - carbon steel with a wooden  
>> handle; guess what type I've got :-)
>>
> wooden with a carbon steel handle?

A type O Rh + infused aluminium pan with a wooden base and a plastic  
handle with carbon steel insert.

[side-note - damn Opera I deleted a load of boojummed messages and it's  
lost my threading. Note to self 'delete prior to posting']

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 09:00:48 +0100, Invisible wrote:

>>> Still unclear how it runs SSL over UDP...
>> 
>> From the above quote, it maybe doesn't, but instead uses the crypto
>> from openSSL.
> 
> Well, the documentation claims that OpenVPN is "an SSL VPN". But since
> SSL is defined to work over TCP... hmm. ;-)

Well, I've also seen other SSL VPN solutions that work quite well, I'm 
not sure as well how it handles it.

Jim

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