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Darren New wrote:
> Oh, are you doing a quick format, or a full format? A "full format"
> actually does read the entire drive. Ext apparently won't do a "full
> format". You have to do a quick format, then scan the disk for errors.
Full format.
Does it just scan the disk, or does it actually write data to it? I was
under the impression it wipes the cluster descriptors, yet doesn't
actually erase every single block on the disk...
>> For me, ext2 takes about 15 seconds or so - very much faster.
>> Comparable to an NTFS "quick format".
>
> Try doing a "quick format" with NTFS. The difference between a 15-second
> ext format and a 20-minute NTFS format gives me the impression that your
> NTFS format is actually looking for flawed sectors to map out.
An NTFS quick format takes about 15-20 seconds, same as ext2.
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Invisible wrote:
>>> Have you ever *tried* to make a hot fire?
>>
>> Hot enough to melt aluminium or glass - no problem.
>
> Heh. I had enough trouble trying to burn through a tree stump!
>
> Now if I had *thermite*... >:-D
>
You don't need thermite, just gasoline. Soak the stump with it for a
few hours (or even a day or two) first :) :) :)
...Chambers
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Darren New wrote:
> Unless the drive had a command
> built in that wiped the entire track in one rotation or something,
> rather than actually having to transfer the data from memory to the
> drive for the whole thing.
>
Actually, that would be a pretty cool feature for a hard drive: an
external button that, when pressed, caused the drive to overwrite itself
with random data.
(Or maybe instead of a button, a keyhole, so it would be harder to do
accidentally).
...Chambers
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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
>
>> First rule in data security: Never assume any data is unrecoverable.
>>
>> Second rule in data security: Never assume nobody is watching.
>
> Third rule in data security: There's no point in overkill. :-P
>
I don't think you'd enjoy working in a bank. They actively encourage
paranoia.
...Chambers
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>> Now if I had *thermite*... >:-D
>>
>
> You don't need thermite, just gasoline. Soak the stump with it for a
> few hours (or even a day or two) first :) :) :)
I was talking about melting a harddrive. :-P
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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>> Third rule in data security: There's no point in overkill. :-P
>>
>
> I don't think you'd enjoy working in a bank. They actively encourage
> paranoia.
Well, a bank has data that is *worth* spending a fortune attacking.
Having serious security for a system that actually warrants it is not
overkill, by definition. :-P
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>
>> Oh, are you doing a quick format, or a full format? A "full format"
>> actually does read the entire drive. Ext apparently won't do a "full
>> format". You have to do a quick format, then scan the disk for errors.
>
> Full format.
>
> Does it just scan the disk, or does it actually write data to it?
For a hard drive, it's read-only on any area not touched by a quick
format. So, yes, what you said.
> An NTFS quick format takes about 15-20 seconds, same as ext2.
Huh. Mine's about 5 times as fast. Of course, how often do you format a
partition? Five seconds or 30 seconds, in the grand scheme, isn't
significant. :-)
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
Helpful housekeeping hints:
Check your feather pillows for holes
before putting them in the washing machine.
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Chambers wrote:
> Actually, that would be a pretty cool feature for a hard drive: an
> external button that, when pressed, caused the drive to overwrite itself
> with random data.
I've seen drive enclosures with a USB key that has an encryption key on
it, so everything on the whole drive is automatically encrypted with the
key. I was thinking of getting one until someone actually analyzed it
and figured out it was doing the equivalent of ROT-13 with the drive.
Advertised as using AES for encryption, it just used AES for generating
the key, said key then being xored identically with every sector read or
written on the disk. Feh.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
Helpful housekeeping hints:
Check your feather pillows for holes
before putting them in the washing machine.
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On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:28:51 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Right. But if I've erased every individual block on the drive (rather
> than just, say, reinstalling Windows on it) then it won't find anything.
I must've been more tired than I thought I was (haven't been sleeping
well) - somehow I *completely* missed this. Of course if that was easily
possible, I wouldn't be contemplating how to replace data on a drive
that's developed some bad sectors. Out-of-band recovery is the only way
I'd be able to do that, and that is damned expensive, yes.
Jim
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On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:24:08 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
>
>> First rule in data security: Never assume any data is unrecoverable.
>>
>> Second rule in data security: Never assume nobody is watching.
>
> Third rule in data security: There's no point in overkill. :-P
That only works if you know what constitutes overkill. :-)
Jim
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And lo on Fri, 27 Jun 2008 19:48:13 +0100, Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] dev null>
did spake, saying:
> Invisible wrote:
>> Damn it Phil, it's too early on a Friday!! >_<
>
> Philip,
> do you realise that you were directly responsible for me spending my
> entire afternoon looking up the Wikipedia entries for Erasure, Depeche
> Mode, Shamen, Orbital, The Chemical Brothers, Beth Orton, William Orbit,
> house, acid house, trance, rave, and two dozen other articles?!
I'm just a little ray of sunshine bringing hours of time-wasting fun to
the world. At the moment I have the Ting Tings, Chris Isaak, and TATU
competing in my head; but can you guess the songs? :-P
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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>> Philip,
>>
>> do you realise that you were directly responsible for me spending my
>> entire afternoon looking up the Wikipedia entries for Erasure, Depeche
>> Mode, Shamen, Orbital, The Chemical Brothers, Beth Orton, William
>> Orbit, house, acid house, trance, rave, and two dozen other articles?!
>
> I'm just a little ray of sunshine bringing hours of time-wasting fun to
> the world.
TY. :-P
> At the moment I have the Ting Tings, Chris Isaak, and TATU
> competing in my head; but can you guess the songs? :-P
Waaaah??
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 11:33:05 +0100, Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull>
wrote:
>
>> At the moment I have the Ting Tings, Chris Isaak, and TATU
>> competing in my head; but can you guess the songs? :-P
>
>Waaaah??
Get your own back by thinking about "The dambusters march"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uq_V3dOnhc
:-)
--
Regards
Stephen
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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Phillip, do you realise that you were directly responsible for me
> spending my entire afternoon looking up the Wikipedia entries for
> Erasure, Depeche Mode, Shamen, Orbital, The Chemical Brothers, Beth
> Orton, William Orbit, house, acid house, trance, rave, and two dozen
> other articles?!
...and I just received this in an email:
http://www.native-instruments.de/index.php?id=vinceclarke&L=1&ftu=478893cd98b030d
Were it not for the above readings, I would have *no idea* who this guy
is...
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:45:38 +0100, Invisible wrote:
>
>> Uh... like, WTF?
>>
>> I mean, sure, if you take the drive apart and crawl over it with a
>> microscope, you can recover data. But who the **** is going to bother?
>> It's not like you could recover any particularly valuable data.
>
> There are some very good forensic tools available to the general public
> that make it possible to recover a fair amount of data from a wiped drive.
>
I concur. A while back I was looking up info about wiping drives and
found something freely available that purported to pull data from wiped
drives. Alas, it was not my goal to recover anything so I didn't keep
the link.
Tom
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On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 08:15:06 -0400, Tom Austin wrote:
> I concur. A while back I was looking up info about wiping drives and
> found something freely available that purported to pull data from wiped
> drives. Alas, it was not my goal to recover anything so I didn't keep
> the link.
Are you maybe thinking of Spinrite? I'd used that in the past (and had
since forgotten about it). If I hadn't cooked the electronics on the USB
interface for the drive I have that just croaked, I might be inclined to
give that a try...
But apparently the USB interface is toast as well. <sigh>
I do recall using Spinrite in the past and it actually was able to
recover things that I thought were unrecoverable. I wonder what it would
do with a zeroed drive.
Jim
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Jim Henderson wrote:
> I do recall using Spinrite in the past and it actually was able to
> recover things that I thought were unrecoverable.
I had understood spinrite was for recovering/fixing/testing drives that
had failures on them, like lost formatting or flakey electronics. I
wouldn't think if the drive was working then you could get much out of
it other than what you last wrote (without opening it up). I mean,
pretty much, isn't that how a drive is *supposed* to work? Give you back
reliably what you most recently wrote to a sector?
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
Helpful housekeeping hints:
Check your feather pillows for holes
before putting them in the washing machine.
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On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 15:03:29 -0700, Darren New wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> I do recall using Spinrite in the past and it actually was able to
>> recover things that I thought were unrecoverable.
>
> I had understood spinrite was for recovering/fixing/testing drives that
> had failures on them, like lost formatting or flakey electronics. I
> wouldn't think if the drive was working then you could get much out of
> it other than what you last wrote (without opening it up). I mean,
> pretty much, isn't that how a drive is *supposed* to work? Give you back
> reliably what you most recently wrote to a sector?
I don't know - I've not looked at it in 10 years. Version 6 has been out
for a while, but I haven't looked at it in depth.
Zeroing a drive could conceivably be seen as just not completely erasing
the magnetic fields, though, so in that specific case, even the older
version might find something.
Jim
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On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:26:53 +0300, Eero Ahonen <aer### [at] removethiszbxtnetinvalid>
wrote:
>Note to self: never try to put your hand in there.
... and don't wear a tie while operating the machine.
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Kyle wrote:
>
> This is sad:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQs5hchKCAM
>
Indeed.... :(
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On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 07:39:02 -0400, Kyle wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:26:53 +0300, Eero Ahonen
> <aer### [at] removethiszbxtnetinvalid> wrote:
>
>>Note to self: never try to put your hand in there.
>
> ... and don't wear a tie while operating the machine.
Ha! You just reminded me of a VP at a company I worked at years ago who
got a very nice silk tie caught in a paper shredder....and yes, he was
wearing the tie at the time, and it was a bit of a struggle to shut the
machine off while it was eating his tie, apparently.
Jim
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