scott wrote:
> I found most of the missions fairly easy to complete first time, but 
> there were 3 or 4 IIRC that were real pains and I had to play them 
> repeatedly many times.

Yes, it rarely took us more than 1 attempt each for most of the 
missions. I remember extended FPS missions like stealing the 'black 
project' from the military base took several goes, especially if you 
follow the instructions and try to be sneaky. It's usually much easier 
to tool up and wade in guns blazing, unless it fails you if you get 
noticed (as also happened).

 > It's even more frustrating when unrealistic
> things happen, like when I had boxed in some guy's car so he couldn't 
> escape - I get out to fire a rocket at his car (while momentarily 
> looking the other way) and when I turn around his car has magically 
> shifted back onto the road and is driving off.

That's a pain. That never happened to me, but the number of times I hit 
the wrong button in high-pressure situations and made him start walking 
around trying to open car doors when he should have been legging it...

The worst thing happened in one of those fragile-vehicle-chase missions 
- my mate was playing, got 400 yards from the end, then a DC-10 crashed 
on top of him. Ludicrous. It's the only time I've ever seen an aircraft 
accident caused by the game AI...

>> I've not played the new one though. I've heard it's 100% city-based, 
>> no countryside - that's one of the things I liked best about San 
>> Andreas, so we'll see...
> 
> Oh yes, that was another thing that put me off, it said the map was 
> actually smaller than SA.  I used to like being able to drive/fly all 
> around outside the town.

Sticking to the roads, it would take at least 10-15 mins to cross the 
map even if you were skilful. Add in getting lost, accidentally 
destroying your vehicle / becoming wanted / ending up in firefights over 
crap redneck vehicles... much better to go straight to the nearest 
airport. And save position locally before attempting a distant mission!

> Have you played Test Drive Unlimited?  It has a huge map to drive 
> around, not as many non-driving parts as SA but it will take you at 
> least an hour to drive around the outside of the island, let alone all 
> the roads inside!

Nope, don't know that one but I'll keep my eyes open. Does it 
realistically erode the vehicles? That was one of the fun aspects of GTA 
IMO - you had to drive with a modicum of care or you'd never get there.

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scott wrote:
> I found most of the missions fairly easy to complete first time, but 
> there were 3 or 4 IIRC that were real pains and I had to play them 
> repeatedly many times.  It's even more frustrating when unrealistic 
> things happen, like when I had boxed in some guy's car so he couldn't 
> escape - I get out to fire a rocket at his car (while momentarily 
> looking the other way) and when I turn around his car has magically 
> shifted back onto the road and is driving off.

Another thing is that most of the car chases are annoying for the simple 
fact that you watch the target pull off impossible accelerations and/or 
turns, ones that you know any car you've driven in the game could never do.

...Chambers

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Chambers wrote:
> scott wrote:
>> I found most of the missions fairly easy to complete first time, but 
>> there were 3 or 4 IIRC that were real pains and I had to play them 
>> repeatedly many times.  It's even more frustrating when unrealistic 
>> things happen, like when I had boxed in some guy's car so he couldn't 
>> escape - I get out to fire a rocket at his car (while momentarily 
>> looking the other way) and when I turn around his car has magically 
>> shifted back onto the road and is driving off.
> 
> Another thing is that most of the car chases are annoying for the simple 
> fact that you watch the target pull off impossible accelerations and/or 
> turns, ones that you know any car you've driven in the game could never do.

I'm not so sure about that. I found that during the race challenges you 
started off competing with other vehicles that seemed to make impossible 
turns etc, but eventually, with practice, you can keep up. What's more 
bizarre is that once you did catch up, they all start driving really 
badly, crashing into each other, flying off the road... and you could 
hold a lead really easily. Very strange.

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Bill Pragnell wrote:
> I'm not so sure about that. I found that during the race challenges you 
> started off competing with other vehicles that seemed to make impossible 
> turns etc, but eventually, with practice, you can keep up. What's more 
> bizarre is that once you did catch up, they all start driving really 
> badly, crashing into each other, flying off the road... and you could 
> hold a lead really easily. Very strange.

I haven't been able to win any of the races, so maybe I just suck at 
driving :)

I'm having fun with the Irish cop's family, though.

...Chambers

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> I'm not so sure about that. I found that during the race challenges you 
> started off competing with other vehicles that seemed to make impossible 
> turns etc, but eventually, with practice, you can keep up. What's more 
> bizarre is that once you did catch up, they all start driving really 
> badly, crashing into each other, flying off the road... and you could hold 
> a lead really easily. Very strange.

The AI certainly seemed to change their speed based on how good you were. 
If you went really slowly for some part, so that you thought they would be 
miles away, they were actually just around the next couple of corners almost 
waiting for you.  I guess once you went faster, they went faster too, and 
then they just crashed because their AI wasn't good enough to work at that 
speed.

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> Nope, don't know that one but I'll keep my eyes open. Does it 
> realistically erode the vehicles?

No I don't think so, I haven't played it for a while now, but from what I 
can remember there is some sort of "wanted" level if you do too much damage, 
and the police get more and more "enthusiastic" the more wanted you get.

I liked the game because it had a wide selection of real cars to choose 
from, and unlike a lot of games you actually had to plan your overtaking 
moves like in real life, and not just be able to drive down the middle of 
the road at full speed avoiding everyone.

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Chambers wrote:
> I haven't been able to win any of the races, so maybe I just suck at 
> driving :)

Well, I used to play it *a lot* :-)

> I'm having fun with the Irish cop's family, though.

Ah, I was talking about San Andreas - haven't played the new one (I 
assume this is a reference to that?)

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scott wrote:
>> I'm not so sure about that. I found that during the race challenges 
>> you started off competing with other vehicles that seemed to make 
>> impossible turns etc, but eventually, with practice, you can keep up. 
>> What's more bizarre is that once you did catch up, they all start 
>> driving really badly, crashing into each other, flying off the road... 
>> and you could hold a lead really easily. Very strange.
> 
> The AI certainly seemed to change their speed based on how good you 
> were. If you went really slowly for some part, so that you thought they 
> would be miles away, they were actually just around the next couple of 
> corners almost waiting for you.  I guess once you went faster, they went 
> faster too, and then they just crashed because their AI wasn't good 
> enough to work at that speed.

Yeah could be. Presumably this is linked to the 'driver skill' statistic 
in some way.

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