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That's because I'm off my antidepressants, which might be due to my
inability to pay for the exorbitantly-priced pills, which is due to my
inability to work, which is in turn caused by, you guessed it, my
depression (and manic phase).
My head feels not at all well. I barely feel alive :(
Maybe I'll try one of the two home remedies I have laying around.
Sam
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stbenge wrote:
> That's because I'm off my antidepressants, which might be due to my
> inability to pay for the exorbitantly-priced pills, which is due to my
> inability to work, which is in turn caused by, you guessed it, my
> depression (and manic phase).
>
> My head feels not at all well. I barely feel alive :(
>
> Maybe I'll try one of the two home remedies I have laying around.
>
> Sam
Have you asked your doc for samples? A lot of times, they'll have tons
of samples lying around.
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stbenge wrote:
> My head feels not at all well. I barely feel alive :(
That does indeed suck.
I'd offer your my sympathy - but I suspect that won't actually help...
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Given the circumstances, if there is were other way, I would apply for
Medicaid. I assume that your meds would be covered. My wife (whom I live
apart from) is bipolar (type II) and she is also getting SSI.
I know how bad it can suck, just make sure you can continue getting to the
doctor and find a way to continue your meds!
--
H²
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Mike Raiford wrote:
>
> Have you asked your doc for samples? A lot of times, they'll have tons
> of samples lying around.
They used to have a countless supply of samples. Unfortunately, they
stopped handing them out for whatever reason. Not that samples help much
anyway. This antidepressant takes a month to kick in, and the withdrawal
symptoms take just as long to subside. I've just stopped feeling the
"brain zaps", these terrible electric shock sensations all over. Now, I
guess I'm back to square one :/
Sam
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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> stbenge wrote:
>
>> My head feels not at all well. I barely feel alive :(
>
> That does indeed suck.
>
> I'd offer your my sympathy - but I suspect that won't actually help...
Thanks. I'll just have to take some spice or something. It's the only
thing which seems to help, although it can't be good for my liver....
Sam
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Halbert wrote:
> Given the circumstances, if there is were other way, I would apply for
> Medicaid. I assume that your meds would be covered.
Well, I am on SSDI and MediCare/Caid, but they won't cover my meds, for
whatever reason.
> My wife (whom I live
> apart from) is bipolar (type II) and she is also getting SSI.
Yeah, I'm BP-II also, but I'm pretty sure I've dipped into the more
serious form from time to time. I've been quite psychotic and delusional
in the past. Not good at all.
> I know how bad it can suck, just make sure you can continue getting to the
> doctor and find a way to continue your meds!
I'm about to make some calls now. Thanks for the input, everyone~
Sam
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On Tue, 06 May 2008 12:59:05 -0700, stbenge wrote:
> Halbert wrote:
>> Given the circumstances, if there is were other way, I would apply for
>> Medicaid. I assume that your meds would be covered.
>
> Well, I am on SSDI and MediCare/Caid, but they won't cover my meds, for
> whatever reason.
>
What the hell? I've only had caid turn me down for one, because some
nurse forgot to call in the PA.
>> My wife (whom I live
>> apart from) is bipolar (type II) and she is also getting SSI.
>
> Yeah, I'm BP-II also, but I'm pretty sure I've dipped into the more
> serious form from time to time. I've been quite psychotic and delusional
> in the past. Not good at all.
>
If you want someone to yell at, I'm going to be home the rest of the day.
Having been through days with similar situations (lost the bottle of
short blood plasma time pills, very fun), I know sometimes a voice can
help and sometimes it doesn't.
>> I know how bad it can suck, just make sure you can continue getting to
>> the doctor and find a way to continue your meds!
>
> I'm about to make some calls now. Thanks for the input, everyone~
>
> Sam
I would offer to help cause havok for who ever is responsible for you not
getting the pills you need, but the specifics will wait till you are in a
better mood.
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Le Tue, 06 May 2008 21:03:40 +0200, stbenge <stb### [at] hotmail com> a écrit:
> That's because I'm off my antidepressants, which might be due to my
> inability to pay for the exorbitantly-priced pills, which is due to my
> inability to work, which is in turn caused by, you guessed it, my
> depression (and manic phase).
>
> My head feels not at all well. I barely feel alive :(
>
> Maybe I'll try one of the two home remedies I have laying around.
>
> Sam
Are you better now Sam? Do you know something about the cause of your
depression? Anyway, it's a bad feeling when one sees all sucks and I
personnally know people who had hard time like that and most of them could
recover sooner or later, with or without the help of pills.
Bruno
--
Utilisant le client e-mail révolutionnaire d'Opera :
http://www.opera.com/mail/
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Bruno Cabasson wrote:
>
> Are you better now Sam?
Yeah, a little, thanks to a low dose of some OTC thing I got from the
pharmacy. I hate to self-medicate like this :/
> Do you know something about the cause of your
> depression?
Well, I know of many factors leading to its initial precipitation back
in '97. Knowing the cause, however, has not been particularly useful for
finding a cure. Some disorders can be treated this way (e.g. PTSD), but
depression for me has become mostly a chemical issue. Of course, there
*are* certain circumstances making recovery difficult at this time. Not
talking to my fiancé for a month because we had an argument, that surely
doesn't help...
> Anyway, it's a bad feeling when one sees all sucks and I
> personnally know people who had hard time like that and most of them
> could recover sooner or later, with or without the help of pills.
>
> Bruno
Yeah, it will take time. In the past I've found that breaking out of
myself once in a while helps. The lingering effects of depression are a
lasting negative perception, and it helps to learn to see things
differently. I should go camping at higher altitudes or something (I'm
already at 5000 feet here).
Sam
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Sabrina Kilian wrote:
> On Tue, 06 May 2008 12:59:05 -0700, stbenge wrote:
>
>> Halbert wrote:
>>> Given the circumstances, if there is were other way, I would apply for
>>> Medicaid. I assume that your meds would be covered.
>> Well, I am on SSDI and MediCare/Caid, but they won't cover my meds, for
>> whatever reason.
>
> What the hell? I've only had caid turn me down for one, because some
> nurse forgot to call in the PA.
I don't know. I filled and sent a form out to help me with my meds, but
nothing has come back.
>>> My wife (whom I live
>>> apart from) is bipolar (type II) and she is also getting SSI.
>> Yeah, I'm BP-II also, but I'm pretty sure I've dipped into the more
>> serious form from time to time. I've been quite psychotic and delusional
>> in the past. Not good at all.
>
> If you want someone to yell at, I'm going to be home the rest of the day.
> Having been through days with similar situations (lost the bottle of
> short blood plasma time pills, very fun), I know sometimes a voice can
> help and sometimes it doesn't.
Thanks for the offer, I may take you up on it.
My brother and I took a nice walk, I took some OTC medicine, and we
talked. I feel somewhat better now :)
> I would offer to help cause havok for who ever is responsible for you not
> getting the pills you need, but the specifics will wait till you are in a
> better mood.
You know, I'm quite fed up with the whole issue of having to take meds
and whatnot. I don't like to miss my doses and go through those terrible
withdrawals. It's been a month since I've taken anything. If I can find
legally available and inexpensive substances which reliably maintain my
mood, I'm going use them instead. There have been too many times when my
prescriptions have expired or some emergency has left me with no money
to pay for my share-of-cost. Then I'm left with these zappy feelings
going throughout my CNS, even to the tip my tongue. Wonderful stuff
these pharm companies have made me dependent on :-/
Sam
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stbenge wrote:
>
> They used to have a countless supply of samples. Unfortunately, they
> stopped handing them out for whatever reason. Not that samples help much
> anyway. This antidepressant takes a month to kick in, and the withdrawal
> symptoms take just as long to subside. I've just stopped feeling the
> "brain zaps", these terrible electric shock sensations all over. Now, I
> guess I'm back to square one :/
>
Ugh.. :( Best of luck to you. I have a friend who had some luck with St.
John's Wort. Maybe worth a try.
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Le Wed, 07 May 2008 03:39:14 +0200, stbenge <stb### [at] hotmailcom> a écrit:
> Bruno Cabasson wrote:
>> Are you better now Sam?
>
> Yeah, a little, thanks to a low dose of some OTC thing I got from the
> pharmacy. I hate to self-medicate like this :/
>
>> Do you know something about the cause of your depression?
>
> Well, I know of many factors leading to its initial precipitation back
> in '97. Knowing the cause, however, has not been particularly useful for
> finding a cure. Some disorders can be treated this way (e.g. PTSD), but
> depression for me has become mostly a chemical issue. Of course, there
> *are* certain circumstances making recovery difficult at this time. Not
> talking to my fiancé for a month because we had an argument, that surely
> doesn't help...
>
>> Anyway, it's a bad feeling when one sees all sucks and I personnally
>> know people who had hard time like that and most of them could recover
>> sooner or later, with or without the help of pills.
>> Bruno
>
> Yeah, it will take time. In the past I've found that breaking out of
> myself once in a while helps. The lingering effects of depression are a
> lasting negative perception, and it helps to learn to see things
> differently. I should go camping at higher altitudes or something (I'm
> already at 5000 feet here).
>
> Sam
Well, Sam, I do not want to appear as I am not, and I absolutely do not
want to make 2-pence philosophy.
But as a father, I tried to grow my kids with what I am and with what I
have, despite my separation with they mother (so usual today).
As a man, I entered the buddhist Dharma because I find myself close to
this approach and its ways in helping people to meet their 'humanness'.
This goes through the path of searching for myself.
As a sophrologist, I made a commitment towards myself and others, learning
some techniques related to body and soul.
Everybody carries more answers in himself than he is accustomed to think
(educated to?). This foolish world that surrounds us facilitates fear and
negativeness, in some circumstances raises them into a cult, because some
people of poor soul need our power in order to prevent themself from
searching their own. They use guilt and focus on other's failures to hide
theirs.
What is your main feeling: guilt? fear of any kind? negative sight on
yourself? on the world? hopelessness? loneliness? whatever ...
My opinion is that chemical prison is mainly a sign of medicine's failure,
not yours, rejecting things upon the patients. By making the patient
'escape' chemically, they escape from something they do not master. They
do not like not to master things. Pills can help escape from a vicious
circle, or rest for a while from a dificult situation, or open a temporary
window, in order to allow some other kind of action.
In fact, taking pills cannot be much considered as an 'action'. They are
rather likely to keep the situation as it is (or even worse), leading also
to chemical over-dependance, generating more harm than cure. However they
can be necessary for long-term in some cases, provided they are well
chosen and dosed, and only a necessary companion to the main action.
All of us here in the POV community have something in common: the desire
of making nice images, using our creativity the best we can, and learning
from others. This is a very positive attitude, no? AFAIK, you made some
nice images here... Creating images are a very positive action.
So despite all negativity of all kinds, of any reason, it is possible for
anyone to make the effort to see what he is capable of, to see what he
already made positive, rather than choosing the ease of complaining
endlessly on what appears wrong or too a heavy burden. It is not that
easy. But it is not that difficult.
Antidepressants are not the answer, and many people could do without if
they were properly helped and followed-up. The first help I see is to help
to restart the desire of helping themselves. I am not sure that pills and
therapists are a definitive solution. They may help you go in the way, not
more. The only true solution is not only in yourself, but IS yourself.
Whatever you think you are or are not, whatever you have done or not,
whatever the world is or is not.
Bruno
--
Utilisant le client e-mail révolutionnaire d'Opera :
http://www.opera.com/mail/
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Meaning no disrespect, but I have to disagree. Having spent years living
with someone who had frequent psychotic episodes and turn into a very
strange, scary, paranoid, but then would return to a completely normal
housewiufe and mother of two the next day. I can tell you with assurance,
that the problem isn't due to psychological trauma, guilt or any other life
experience. It may be precipitated by an event. Episodes may be triggered.
But the root of the problem is biochemical
I am told that the need for meds can sometimes lessen and even go away but
seen that when someone tries to ween themselves off the meds, bad things can
happen. (No matter what Tom Cruise says.) I've had knives thrown at me. My
step-daughter's bed room was destroyed.
But I'm sure Sam is aware of what can happen. And he is not stopping his
meds by choice. Trying to treat such a problem with things like diet and
meditation, relaxation techniques and the like may be helpful, but relying
on them alone is a bad choice and even dangerous.
--
H²
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Le Wed, 07 May 2008 17:03:59 +0200, Halbert <hal### [at] gmailcom> a
écrit:
> Meaning no disrespect, but I have to disagree. Having spent years living
> with someone who had frequent psychotic episodes and turn into a very
> strange, scary, paranoid, but then would return to a completely normal
> housewiufe and mother of two the next day. I can tell you with assurance,
> that the problem isn't due to psychological trauma, guilt or any other
> life
> experience. It may be precipitated by an event. Episodes may be
> triggered.
> But the root of the problem is biochemical
> I am told that the need for meds can sometimes lessen and even go away
> but
> seen that when someone tries to ween themselves off the meds, bad things
> can
> happen. (No matter what Tom Cruise says.) I've had knives thrown at me.
> My
> step-daughter's bed room was destroyed.
> But I'm sure Sam is aware of what can happen. And he is not stopping his
> meds by choice. Trying to treat such a problem with things like diet and
> meditation, relaxation techniques and the like may be helpful, but
> relying
> on them alone is a bad choice and even dangerous.
>
> --
> H²
>
>
We do not really disagree, but just do not adress the same cases. And what
you say is also true. It is the same old tradeoff for depression:
biochemical or existential. In both situations, or mixed ones, a chemical
prison is not the solution, and rather an easy escape from health systems.
If the problem is well defined (diagnosed), the chemical treatment can be
acurately targeted and cannot lead to chemical prison. I can also assure
you that many, many and many people diminished dramatically their pills
(included the useless ones they took unappropriately) by recovering more
or less control of their body and mind. A significant proportion of them
could even stop completely the chemical treatment, some others still have
to keep a background chemical treatment.
What is sure is that all health systems of developped countries very often
over-use chemistry, preventing them from searching the true causes and a
matching treatment, and filling the labs' purses, with the collaboration
of the above-mentionned health systems. Anti-depressants are the most
famous examples of these over-prescriptions.
Now, however, we do not know much of Sam's situation, and this knowledge
belong to him alone. We just can say generalities, and this is no place
for speculating on it. He is sure aware of many things we are not.
Bruno
--
Utilisant le client e-mail révolutionnaire d'Opera :
http://www.opera.com/mail/
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Mike Raiford wrote:
> stbenge wrote:
>
>>
>> This antidepressant takes a month to kick in, and the
>> withdrawal symptoms take just as long to subside. I've just stopped
>> feeling the "brain zaps", these terrible electric shock sensations all
>> over. Now, I guess I'm back to square one :/
>>
>
> Ugh.. :( Best of luck to you. I have a friend who had some luck with St.
> John's Wort. Maybe worth a try.
I tried SJW back in '00, but I didn't notice a big difference. Maybe
I'll give it a go, again.
Thanks Mike~
Sam
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On Wed, 07 May 2008 20:05:30 +0200, Bruno Cabasson wrote:
> we do not know much of Sam's situation
This is a very important point, and one I think Halbert might've been
trying to make - when you said "Antidepressants are not the answer", it
sounded to me (though on a reread, I see that I read it differently than
you wrote it) that this might be taken as a kind of "diagnosis" or
"recommendation" to Sam.
It is very dangerous business providing medical diagnoses in an online
discussion forum, for the reason you said here - that we don't know the
situation. We're not in a position to say anything other than
generalities, and it needs to be clear that that is the case. The only
ones qualified to make a diagnosis are the professionals who are trained
to do so and who have had ample time to talk with the individual and
understand their situation *fully*.
Some *are* better at it than others, of course. But I would hazard a
guess that the worst in the field would do a better job sitting down and
talking to the individual as compared to those of us sitting here at our
desks playing "armchair quarterback" to the profession. Most of those in
the profession, BTW, would avoid mixing a friendship (even an online one)
with business - I know several people in the field, and (a) they would
never volunteer to treat anyone they knew personally, and (b) they
wouldn't maintain a friendship with their patients, because that can
create a really bad situation down the road.
My $0.02 - and Sam, FWIW, I hope things start looking up for you.
Jim
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Bruno Cabasson wrote:
> Well, Sam, I do not want to appear as I am not, and I absolutely do not
> want to make 2-pence philosophy.
>
> But as a father, I tried to grow my kids with what I am and with what I
> have, despite my separation with they mother (so usual today).
>
> As a man, I entered the buddhist Dharma because I find myself close to
> this approach and its ways in helping people to meet their 'humanness'.
> This goes through the path of searching for myself.
>
> As a sophrologist, I made a commitment towards myself and others,
> learning some techniques related to body and soul.
>
> Everybody carries more answers in himself than he is accustomed to think
> (educated to?). This foolish world that surrounds us facilitates fear
> and negativeness, in some circumstances raises them into a cult, because
> some people of poor soul need our power in order to prevent themself
> from searching their own. They use guilt and focus on other's failures
> to hide theirs.
I respect and admire all beliefs which produce loving people. I think
all beliefs hold a bit of truth.
> What is your main feeling: guilt? fear of any kind? negative sight on
> yourself? on the world? hopelessness? loneliness? whatever ...
Guilt? Once, perhaps. Now, it's this fear of losing my mind and heart.
Sometimes I feel not quite here, like my heart and spirit has been
destroyed. Today I feel quite ok. I populate my head like I should, but
this feeling comes and goes.
> My opinion is that chemical prison is mainly a sign of medicine's
> failure, not yours, rejecting things upon the patients. By making the
> patient 'escape' chemically, they escape from something they do not
> master. They do not like not to master things. Pills can help escape
> from a vicious circle, or rest for a while from a dificult situation, or
> open a temporary window, in order to allow some other kind of action.
>
> In fact, taking pills cannot be much considered as an 'action'. They are
> rather likely to keep the situation as it is (or even worse), leading
> also to chemical over-dependance, generating more harm than cure.
> However they can be necessary for long-term in some cases, provided they
> are well chosen and dosed, and only a necessary companion to the main
> action.
That's one problem with my situation. The "main action" for me would be
to attend groups down at mental health, but I lost my driver's license
and probably won't be allowed to drive ever again. I'm 35 miles from MH...
> All of us here in the POV community have something in common: the desire
> of making nice images, using our creativity the best we can, and
> learning from others. This is a very positive attitude, no? AFAIK, you
> made some nice images here... Creating images are a very positive action.
Yeah, but when you're depressed you gain no satisfaction from positive
actions. You could even behave like a saint, but inside there is still
that emptiness :(
> So despite all negativity of all kinds, of any reason, it is possible
> for anyone to make the effort to see what he is capable of, to see what
> he already made positive, rather than choosing the ease of complaining
> endlessly on what appears wrong or too a heavy burden. It is not that
> easy. But it is not that difficult.
You know, that line of thinking seems a lot like what Jesus taught.
> Antidepressants are not the answer, and many people could do without if
> they were properly helped and followed-up. The first help I see is to
> help to restart the desire of helping themselves. I am not sure that
> pills and therapists are a definitive solution. They may help you go in
> the way, not more. The only true solution is not only in yourself, but
> IS yourself. Whatever you think you are or are not, whatever you have
> done or not, whatever the world is or is not.
>
>
> Bruno
It will take some time before I can take these words to the point of
getting a job and sustaining myself in a normal way. You see, my moods
can lead me to do very harmful things to myself, and I'd rather not flip
out land in jail (again). I will take them to heart though, and always
remember to redefine myself, instead of holding to an old definition.
Thanks, Bruno~
Sam
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Halbert wrote:
> Meaning no disrespect, but I have to disagree. Having spent years living
> with someone who had frequent psychotic episodes and turn into a very
> strange, scary, paranoid, but then would return to a completely normal
> housewiufe and mother of two the next day. I can tell you with assurance,
> that the problem isn't due to psychological trauma, guilt or any other life
> experience. It may be precipitated by an event. Episodes may be triggered.
> But the root of the problem is biochemical
> I am told that the need for meds can sometimes lessen and even go away but
> seen that when someone tries to ween themselves off the meds, bad things can
> happen. (No matter what Tom Cruise says.) I've had knives thrown at me. My
> step-daughter's bed room was destroyed.
Man, I'm so sorry for you. Do you still see her?
> But I'm sure Sam is aware of what can happen. And he is not stopping his
> meds by choice.
Right. I know I need help for this, be it chemical, therapeutic,
spiritual. I'll not be letting myself get in a bad way again. I've got
emergency procedures I can initiate if I or somebody around me thinks
I'm heading toward psychosis again. "There is safety in the presence of
council," therefore I must always surround myself with a support group,
be it familial, professional or even collegial.
> Trying to treat such a problem with things like diet and
> meditation, relaxation techniques and the like may be helpful, but relying
> on them alone is a bad choice and even dangerous.
Don't I know it! That's why I'd rather self-medicate in the absence of
prescription drugs. I figure I'll find something that works for the
long-term if I keep searching literature.
Sam
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Jim Henderson wrote:
> My $0.02 - and Sam, FWIW, I hope things start looking up for you.
Jim,
Well, today is definitely better. Not manic, but better. The medicine I
took yesterday actually helped, though it was unclear for a while
whether it would work or not. I feel more "me" than I have for several
days. Maybe I'm on the upswing. Maybe it will level out before I become
manic...
Thanks for your input~
Sam
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>> happen. (No matter what Tom Cruise says.) I've had knives thrown at me.
>> My step-daughter's bed room was destroyed.
>
> Man, I'm so sorry for you. Do you still see her?
>
I do keep in touch. I am still very concerned for her. It was a long
nightmarish time. At one point she ate about 50 phenobarbital tablits and a
bottle of wellbutrin with out even thinking about what she was doing. She
was in a coma for a few days. Actually, she is in prison right now and that
is not unrelated to her not taking her meds. A very long (but sort of
interesting) story. But she has seen better during the time she has been
supervised.
--
H²
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Halbert wrote:
> Trying to treat such a problem with things like diet and
> meditation, relaxation techniques and the like may be helpful,
> but relying on them alone is a bad choice and even dangerous.
Considering how unhealthfully most live today, diet and exercise should
be the *first* area explored when facing a health problem. Relying on
drugs alone is the bad and dangerous choice.
It's sad and hysterical that many who smoke, eat hydrogenated fats and
sugar, and sit on their butts all day will consider mine a naive opinion.
-Shay
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On Wed, 07 May 2008 12:26:31 -0700, stbenge wrote:
> Well, today is definitely better. Not manic, but better. The medicine I
> took yesterday actually helped, though it was unclear for a while
> whether it would work or not. I feel more "me" than I have for several
> days. Maybe I'm on the upswing. Maybe it will level out before I become
> manic...
>
> Thanks for your input~
Here's hoping, Sam. Here's hoping.
Jim
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Hi Sam. Sorry I've taken so long to reply, but I've just finished a move and am
still mostly living out of boxes that still need to be unpacked. My online time
has been erratic and I just picked up on the fact that this was a "serious
issue" thread.
First, I'm very glad to hear that you are doing a bit better than when the
thread began.
Over the past few years, I've done a good bit of research into this topic for
the sake of a long time friend who has had to deal with a similar situation.
Here's a brief summary of what I've learned.
The broad generalization that "Everyone on anti-depressants would be better off
if they just stopped taking them and switched to natural remedies", is false
and dangerously so. This having been said, it is also true that many
antidepressant drugs, especially SSRIs (Selective Serotonin Re-uptake
Inhibitors) are over marketed and over prescribed to levels that make me wonder
what kind of "medication" the medicators are on. (Just high on profits I guess.)
It may be a long and difficult search, but there ARE some doctors out there who
still actually care about their patients' well-being and who are willing to
work to find a total treatment approach where only the minimum necessary amount
of pharmaceutical intervention, if any, is used. I would recommend trying again
and again as many times as necessary until you find one.
Also, I can't say enough good things about the "chicken soup" approach. For
anyone who may not be familiar with the old joke, it goes like this:
Doctor: "I prescribe chicken soup."
Patient: "Will it help?"
Doctor: "It couldn't hurt."
The point of this is that there are a number of basic things we can do to take
better care of ourselves generally that are known to often mitigate the
suffering associated with depression and anxiety. Although it's very difficult
to predict which aspects of healthy nutrition, exercise and sleep practices will
do how much good for any specific individual, collectively these practices are
going do some good and no harm. It's also not unheard of for the positive
results to be fairly dramatic. The mind and body have many ways of healing
themselves that modern science is just beginning to understand. Virtually all
of these processes work more efficiently if we don't allow ourselves to become
malnourished, exhausted, dehydrated or atrophied.
These simple things work:
(not as a replacement for medication, but as methods of supporting overall
well-being whatever one's medication status might be)
1. Ample amounts of CLEAN water. If you think your tap water is the least bit
suspect, drink distilled or filtered water.
2. Maintain a REGULAR sleep schedule. (MUCH easier said than done, I know) A
regular circadian rhythm enhances numerous critical metabolic processes
enormously.
3. Forget complicated fad diets and just adopt a strict "no junk food" policy.
(If you think it might be junk food, it IS.) If fatigue is an issue, drastically
reducing or eliminating red meat in favor of other protein sources can be a big
help. Replace "manufactured" food-like products with fresh produce to the
greatest extent practical.
4. Unless some medical issue make this problematic, do the following about
twice per day: Spend about ten minutes building up to an accelerated heart rate
where you are breathing noticeably heavier than normal, but NOT gasping for
breath. Remain active enough to maintain this heart rate for an additional
twenty to twenty-five minutes. The best particular form of exercise is the one
you most enjoy so you will actually DO it.
5. The results of serious studies on meditation are mixed. I'm pretty sure,
however, that it helps me and I proffer my personal unscientific recommendation
to give it a go if you're at all so inclined.
Given that my own "spiritual orientation" is that of a
"Thank-God-I'm-an-Atheist" Eclectic Ironicist (basically, we believe that "true
spirituality" - if there even *IS* such a thing - has much to do with treating
other people decently and nothing to do with preaching at them), I'm probably
profoundly unqualified to introduce this subject, BUT... statistically, many
people who report having done well in their struggle against depression and
anxiety credit support from a social group that shares their spiritual and/or
philosophical outlook as being largely responsible for their success.
Finally, I'm sure that you already know, despite our society's prejudices to the
contrary, that depression is a medical condition that does not detract from the
inherent worth of a sentient individual and more than does diabetes or asthma.
I'll bet, however, that it doesn't hurt to hear someone else say it once in a
while.
Please keep in touch.
Best Regards,
Mike C.
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On Wed, 07 May 2008 15:03:21 -0500, Shay <sha### [at] nonenone> wrote:
>
>It's sad and hysterical that many who smoke, eat hydrogenated fats and
>sugar, and sit on their butts all day will consider mine a naive opinion.
True but sadly true :)
--
Regards
Stephen
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Le Wed, 07 May 2008 21:07:14 +0200, stbenge <stb### [at] hotmailcom> a écrit:
> Bruno Cabasson wrote:
>> Well, Sam, I do not want to appear as I am not, and I absolutely do not
>> want to make 2-pence philosophy.
>> But as a father, I tried to grow my kids with what I am and with what
>> I have, despite my separation with they mother (so usual today).
>> As a man, I entered the buddhist Dharma because I find myself close to
>> this approach and its ways in helping people to meet their 'humanness'.
>> This goes through the path of searching for myself.
>> As a sophrologist, I made a commitment towards myself and others,
>> learning some techniques related to body and soul.
>> Everybody carries more answers in himself than he is accustomed to
>> think (educated to?). This foolish world that surrounds us facilitates
>> fear and negativeness, in some circumstances raises them into a cult,
>> because some people of poor soul need our power in order to prevent
>> themself from searching their own. They use guilt and focus on other's
>> failures to hide theirs.
>
> I respect and admire all beliefs which produce loving people. I think
> all beliefs hold a bit of truth.
>
>> What is your main feeling: guilt? fear of any kind? negative sight on
>> yourself? on the world? hopelessness? loneliness? whatever ...
>
> Guilt? Once, perhaps. Now, it's this fear of losing my mind and heart.
> Sometimes I feel not quite here, like my heart and spirit has been
> destroyed. Today I feel quite ok. I populate my head like I should, but
> this feeling comes and goes.
>
>> My opinion is that chemical prison is mainly a sign of medicine's
>> failure, not yours, rejecting things upon the patients. By making the
>> patient 'escape' chemically, they escape from something they do not
>> master. They do not like not to master things. Pills can help escape
>> from a vicious circle, or rest for a while from a dificult situation,
>> or open a temporary window, in order to allow some other kind of action.
>> In fact, taking pills cannot be much considered as an 'action'. They
>> are rather likely to keep the situation as it is (or even worse),
>> leading also to chemical over-dependance, generating more harm than
>> cure. However they can be necessary for long-term in some cases,
>> provided they are well chosen and dosed, and only a necessary companion
>> to the main action.
>
> That's one problem with my situation. The "main action" for me would be
> to attend groups down at mental health, but I lost my driver's license
> and probably won't be allowed to drive ever again. I'm 35 miles from
> MH...
>
>> All of us here in the POV community have something in common: the
>> desire of making nice images, using our creativity the best we can, and
>> learning from others. This is a very positive attitude, no? AFAIK, you
>> made some nice images here... Creating images are a very positive
>> action.
>
> Yeah, but when you're depressed you gain no satisfaction from positive
> actions...
As strange as it could sound, this statement is partially wrong: the
correct statement would have rather been "Yeah, but when you're depressed
you FEEL you gain no satisfaction from positive actions". In the
depressive cases, you FEEL you are better only when you ARE already OK
again and recovered most of your capabilities (or a significant part of
them). BUT you get better and better, unaware of the process, until you
reach the state where you are (can be/freed enough to be) aware of it
yourself. So, positive actions are always profitable even if the subject
feels the opposite. This is a matter of perception and 'internal'
communication.
An example of such a process, using an analogy: consider a glass filled
with some water troubled with some substance. Impossible to see through.
Suppose we have some other substance, opposite to the one that troubles
the water. We drop this substance, one drop after another. The liquid
remains troubled until the one drop that makes the mix pass beyond a
threshold, and becomes clear. In chemistry there are many behaviours like
this ('précipités' in french). The 'mud' is now separated from the water.
The mud can be eliminated more easily, and the water is now clear.
Most of mental and existential phenomena, including perception of all
kinds, are not 'displayed' to conciousness or only partially. Conciousness
is a small visible part of the soul. It interprets things (alas), and this
is the source of many troubles. These troubles are, in fact, not grounded
into reality. The work would consist in re-education to percption of
reality that surrounds us. The soul has another medium to express itself
(positively or negatively): the body. We enter here the psychosomatic area
of modern deseases.
However, when the patient is facing a neurological malfunction, the
problem is completely different. I guess that, here, the chemical (or
surgical) action is necessary. I also know that some neurological symptoms
can be due to electric malfunction inside the brain (e.g. parkinson
desease). But we are not really in the area of depression.
BTW, I take the occasion here to reply to someone in the thread who said
that only professionnals may say something (in substance, I don't remember
by heart). As a sophrologist, having followed the whole official course (4
years and 12 degrees), I can be considered as a professional of a part of
what we are dealing with, at least the existential part of it (I have a
professional card for this discipline). I can also change a wheel without
being a 20-year-experienced garagist, and cook an egg without being a 5
star chef.
Bruno
> ... You could even behave like a saint, but inside there is still that
> emptiness :(
>> So despite all negativity of all kinds, of any reason, it is possible
>> for anyone to make the effort to see what he is capable of, to see what
>> he already made positive, rather than choosing the ease of complaining
>> endlessly on what appears wrong or too a heavy burden. It is not that
>> easy. But it is not that difficult.
>
> You know, that line of thinking seems a lot like what Jesus taught.
>
>> Antidepressants are not the answer, and many people could do without if
>> they were properly helped and followed-up. The first help I see is to
>> help to restart the desire of helping themselves. I am not sure that
>> pills and therapists are a definitive solution. They may help you go in
>> the way, not more. The only true solution is not only in yourself, but
>> IS yourself. Whatever you think you are or are not, whatever you have
>> done or not, whatever the world is or is not.
>> Bruno
>
> It will take some time before I can take these words to the point of
> getting a job and sustaining myself in a normal way. You see, my moods
> can lead me to do very harmful things to myself, and I'd rather not flip
> out land in jail (again). I will take them to heart though, and always
> remember to redefine myself, instead of holding to an old definition.
>
> Thanks, Bruno~
>
> Sam
--
Utilisant le client e-mail révolutionnaire d'Opera :
http://www.opera.com/mail/
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On Wed, 7 May 2008 16:41:53 EDT, "Mike the Elder" <nomail@nomail>
wrote:
>1. Ample amounts of CLEAN water. If you think your tap water is the least bit
>suspect, drink distilled or filtered water.
I don't normally join in these discussions, mainly because no one asks
me but I agree with everything you have said except for two things.
1. Stone soup is maybe a bit better than chicken soup IMO :)
2. And drinking water. You said "Ample amounts" which is fine and
correct but most people over do it. (again IMHO) There was a
recommendation that everyone should consume 2 litres of water a day
which has been interpreted as drink at least 2 litres of water a day.
When in fact it meant, including the water you consume during eating
fruit, veg and other food. (I'm not talking to people who live in hot
countries or do manual work and sweat or "glow" a lot (for the ladies
:)) It really distresses me seeing some people carrying and sipping
from bottles of water during the whole day. (It knocks the body's
balance out) Funnily enough most of them are fat, a sign that
something is wrong.
Call me an old Spey Wife if you like but the old ways are the best.
Sam, keep the faith and if you can be strong you will come through the
bad times :)
--
Regards
Stephen
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I am entirely with you! Your argument is well structured and tells what I
consider to be the truth. Bravo Mike!
Bruno
Le Wed, 07 May 2008 22:41:53 +0200, Mike the Elder <nomail@nomail> a écrit:
> Hi Sam. Sorry I've taken so long to reply, but I've just finished a
> move and am
> still mostly living out of boxes that still need to be unpacked. My
> online time
> has been erratic and I just picked up on the fact that this was a
> "serious
> issue" thread.
>
> First, I'm very glad to hear that you are doing a bit better than when
> the
> thread began.
>
> Over the past few years, I've done a good bit of research into this
> topic for
> the sake of a long time friend who has had to deal with a similar
> situation.
> Here's a brief summary of what I've learned.
>
> The broad generalization that "Everyone on anti-depressants would be
> better off
> if they just stopped taking them and switched to natural remedies", is
> false
> and dangerously so. This having been said, it is also true that many
> antidepressant drugs, especially SSRIs (Selective Serotonin Re-uptake
> Inhibitors) are over marketed and over prescribed to levels that make me
> wonder
> what kind of "medication" the medicators are on. (Just high on profits I
> guess.)
>
> It may be a long and difficult search, but there ARE some doctors out
> there who
> still actually care about their patients' well-being and who are willing
> to
> work to find a total treatment approach where only the minimum necessary
> amount
> of pharmaceutical intervention, if any, is used. I would recommend
> trying again
> and again as many times as necessary until you find one.
>
> Also, I can't say enough good things about the "chicken soup" approach.
> For
> anyone who may not be familiar with the old joke, it goes like this:
>
> Doctor: "I prescribe chicken soup."
> Patient: "Will it help?"
> Doctor: "It couldn't hurt."
>
> The point of this is that there are a number of basic things we can do
> to take
> better care of ourselves generally that are known to often mitigate the
> suffering associated with depression and anxiety. Although it's very
> difficult
> to predict which aspects of healthy nutrition, exercise and sleep
> practices will
> do how much good for any specific individual, collectively these
> practices are
> going do some good and no harm. It's also not unheard of for the
> positive
> results to be fairly dramatic. The mind and body have many ways of
> healing
> themselves that modern science is just beginning to understand.
> Virtually all
> of these processes work more efficiently if we don't allow ourselves to
> become
> malnourished, exhausted, dehydrated or atrophied.
>
> These simple things work:
> (not as a replacement for medication, but as methods of supporting
> overall
> well-being whatever one's medication status might be)
>
> 1. Ample amounts of CLEAN water. If you think your tap water is the
> least bit
> suspect, drink distilled or filtered water.
>
> 2. Maintain a REGULAR sleep schedule. (MUCH easier said than done, I
> know) A
> regular circadian rhythm enhances numerous critical metabolic processes
> enormously.
>
> 3. Forget complicated fad diets and just adopt a strict "no junk food"
> policy.
> (If you think it might be junk food, it IS.) If fatigue is an issue,
> drastically
> reducing or eliminating red meat in favor of other protein sources can
> be a big
> help. Replace "manufactured" food-like products with fresh produce to the
> greatest extent practical.
>
> 4. Unless some medical issue make this problematic, do the following
> about
> twice per day: Spend about ten minutes building up to an accelerated
> heart rate
> where you are breathing noticeably heavier than normal, but NOT gasping
> for
> breath. Remain active enough to maintain this heart rate for an
> additional
> twenty to twenty-five minutes. The best particular form of exercise is
> the one
> you most enjoy so you will actually DO it.
>
> 5. The results of serious studies on meditation are mixed. I'm pretty
> sure,
> however, that it helps me and I proffer my personal unscientific
> recommendation
> to give it a go if you're at all so inclined.
>
> Given that my own "spiritual orientation" is that of a
> "Thank-God-I'm-an-Atheist" Eclectic Ironicist (basically, we believe
> that "true
> spirituality" - if there even *IS* such a thing - has much to do with
> treating
> other people decently and nothing to do with preaching at them), I'm
> probably
> profoundly unqualified to introduce this subject, BUT... statistically,
> many
> people who report having done well in their struggle against depression
> and
> anxiety credit support from a social group that shares their spiritual
> and/or
> philosophical outlook as being largely responsible for their success.
>
> Finally, I'm sure that you already know, despite our society's
> prejudices to the
> contrary, that depression is a medical condition that does not detract
> from the
> inherent worth of a sentient individual and more than does diabetes or
> asthma.
> I'll bet, however, that it doesn't hurt to hear someone else say it once
> in a
> while.
>
> Please keep in touch.
>
> Best Regards,
> Mike C.
>
--
Utilisant le client e-mail révolutionnaire d'Opera :
http://www.opera.com/mail/
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Halbert wrote:
>>> happen. (No matter what Tom Cruise says.) I've had knives thrown at me.
>>> My step-daughter's bed room was destroyed.
>> Man, I'm so sorry for you. Do you still see her?
>>
>
> I do keep in touch. I am still very concerned for her. It was a long
> nightmarish time. At one point she ate about 50 phenobarbital tablits and a
> bottle of wellbutrin with out even thinking about what she was doing. She
> was in a coma for a few days. Actually, she is in prison right now and that
> is not unrelated to her not taking her meds. A very long (but sort of
> interesting) story. But she has seen better during the time she has been
> supervised.
My heart and prayers go out to you both. I hope she understands the
importance of knowing her condition, and keeps a closer watch on it in
the future. How long will she be away, if you don't mind my asking?
Sam
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Shay wrote:
> Considering how unhealthfully most live today, diet and exercise should
> be the *first* area explored when facing a health problem. Relying on
> drugs alone is the bad and dangerous choice.
>
> It's sad and hysterical that many who smoke, eat hydrogenated fats and
> sugar, and sit on their butts all day will consider mine a naive opinion.
>
> -Shay
Hey, I fit that demographic.... only I know the importance of exercise,
and have almost completely failed to do anything about it. I've got a
bike, I should ride it...
Sam
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Bruno Cabasson wrote:
> Le Wed, 07 May 2008 21:07:14 +0200, stbenge <stb### [at] hotmailcom> a écrit:
>> Yeah, but when you're depressed you gain no satisfaction from positive
>> actions...
>
> As strange as it could sound, this statement is partially wrong: the
> correct statement would have rather been "Yeah, but when you're
> depressed you FEEL you gain no satisfaction from positive actions". In
> the depressive cases, you FEEL you are better only when you ARE already
> OK again and recovered most of your capabilities (or a significant part
> of them). BUT you get better and better, unaware of the process, until
> you reach the state where you are (can be/freed enough to be) aware of
> it yourself. So, positive actions are always profitable even if the
> subject feels the opposite. This is a matter of perception and
> 'internal' communication.
I should have been more clear in my statement. I did, of course, mean
that I don't *feel* satisfaction, not that I actually fail to gain any,
eventually :)
Sam
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Mike the Elder wrote:
> Hi Sam. Sorry I've taken so long to reply, but I've just finished a move and am
> still mostly living out of boxes that still need to be unpacked. My online time
> has been erratic and I just picked up on the fact that this was a "serious
> issue" thread.
Hi Mike,
> First, I'm very glad to hear that you are doing a bit better than when the
> thread began.
Thanks.
> Over the past few years, I've done a good bit of research into this topic for
> the sake of a long time friend who has had to deal with a similar situation.
> Here's a brief summary of what I've learned.
>
> The broad generalization that "Everyone on anti-depressants would be better off
> if they just stopped taking them and switched to natural remedies", is false
> and dangerously so. This having been said, it is also true that many
> antidepressant drugs, especially SSRIs (Selective Serotonin Re-uptake
> Inhibitors) are over marketed and over prescribed to levels that make me wonder
> what kind of "medication" the medicators are on. (Just high on profits I guess.)
I agree with your statement. The pharmaceutical companies would like to
think that SSRIs are for everyone, but I think the true number is much
lower than they think. I've experienced plenty of bad reactions to that
class of drugs, and I do believe I've had all I can take.
SSRIs a dead-end for me; I must look elsewhere for chemical treatment.
If they'd approve a drug that could make a person feel comfortable with
themselves while providing conditions for enhanced internal reflection,
the field of psychotherapy would go a long way, I think.
> It may be a long and difficult search, but there ARE some doctors out there who
> still actually care about their patients' well-being and who are willing to
> work to find a total treatment approach where only the minimum necessary amount
> of pharmaceutical intervention, if any, is used. I would recommend trying again
> and again as many times as necessary until you find one.
Well, I could call up Mental Health, to see what options they can give
me. They are a bit prescription-happy over there, though. I know some
people who have 8+ prescriptions, some of which, considering the
chemical makeup of the drug, may actually exacerbate their condition(s).
It's a little sloppy, if you ask me.
> These simple things work:
> (not as a replacement for medication, but as methods of supporting overall
> well-being whatever one's medication status might be)
>
> 1. Ample amounts of CLEAN water. If you think your tap water is the least bit
> suspect, drink distilled or filtered water.
Our tap water has a slight taste of chlorine from time-to-time, but
overall I think it is safe to drink (the well is probably very clean and
not be far away, considering where I live).
> 2. Maintain a REGULAR sleep schedule. (MUCH easier said than done, I know) A
> regular circadian rhythm enhances numerous critical metabolic processes
> enormously.
Well, now there's a problem. I've been getting to bed between 1 and 3 AM
and waking up around noon lately.
> 3. Forget complicated fad diets and just adopt a strict "no junk food" policy.
> (If you think it might be junk food, it IS.) If fatigue is an issue, drastically
> reducing or eliminating red meat in favor of other protein sources can be a big
> help. Replace "manufactured" food-like products with fresh produce to the
> greatest extent practical.
My diet's pretty good. We prepare all our meals around here. Not too
much red meat, lots of chicken, fresh bread based on a pizza dough
recipe. Not very much junk food at all (I've even stopping having these
annoying donut dreams).
> 4. Unless some medical issue make this problematic, do the following about
> twice per day: Spend about ten minutes building up to an accelerated heart rate
> where you are breathing noticeably heavier than normal, but NOT gasping for
> breath. Remain active enough to maintain this heart rate for an additional
> twenty to twenty-five minutes. The best particular form of exercise is the one
> you most enjoy so you will actually DO it.
Ah yes, gotta get on that bike. My lungs are somewhat compromised,
thanks to these cigarettes I use for attitude maintenance :/ If I could
find an inexpensive, pure form of nicotine, that would be great.
> 5. The results of serious studies on meditation are mixed. I'm pretty sure,
> however, that it helps me and I proffer my personal unscientific recommendation
> to give it a go if you're at all so inclined.
Ive never gotten far with meditation. Perhaps this is due to the fact
that I try when I'm laying down for the night, and end up sleeping
instead of getting much accomplished. If I could reach a state of
internal reflection similar to what I get with this certain OTC
substance, I would be well most of the time, I think.
> Given that my own "spiritual orientation" is that of a
> "Thank-God-I'm-an-Atheist" Eclectic Ironicist (basically, we believe that "true
> spirituality" - if there even *IS* such a thing - has much to do with treating
> other people decently and nothing to do with preaching at them), I'm probably
> profoundly unqualified to introduce this subject, BUT... statistically, many
> people who report having done well in their struggle against depression and
> anxiety credit support from a social group that shares their spiritual and/or
> philosophical outlook as being largely responsible for their success.
I know of such a community, and will most likely introduce myself to
them soon.
> Finally, I'm sure that you already know, despite our society's prejudices to the
> contrary, that depression is a medical condition that does not detract from the
> inherent worth of a sentient individual and more than does diabetes or asthma.
> I'll bet, however, that it doesn't hurt to hear someone else say it once in a
> while.
No, it doesn't hurt, and I've long since dug my heels into my resolve to
assert myself as an equally worthwhile human being, despite my currents.
> Please keep in touch.
Will do. Thanks MTE~
Sam
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Stephen wrote:
> 1. Stone soup is maybe a bit better than chicken soup IMO :)
LOL, no doubt!
> Sam, keep the faith and if you can be strong you will come through the
> bad times :)
Thank you Steven!
I've been through more difficult periods than this,
emotionally-speaking. This has been more of a spiritual deadening, and
less of of an emotionally-charged panic, which is what it mostly was in
the past. To me, becoming emotionless and "dead" inside is just as bad
as losing my mind some other way.
Sam
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>
> My heart and prayers go out to you both. I hope she understands the
> importance of knowing her condition, and keeps a closer watch on it in the
> future. How long will she be away, if you don't mind my asking?
>
> Sam
You seem to be in better spirits. I hope that continues.
She should probably be out this fall but technically they could keep her for
about four more years; the trouble she got into was rather serious. I'm sure
she understands about her condition. As you know it's not easy to live
with-- sometimes even for family members. Let me know if you find any herbal
remedies that work for you too.
--
H²
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Le Thu, 08 May 2008 00:42:34 +0200, stbenge <stb### [at] hotmailcom> a écrit:
> 5. The results of serious studies on meditation are mixed. I'm pretty
> sure,
> however, that it helps me and I proffer my personal unscientific
> recommendation
> to give it a go if you're at all so inclined.
> Ive never gotten far with meditation. Perhaps this is due to the fact
> that I try when I'm laying down for the night, and end up sleeping
> instead of getting much accomplished. If I could reach a state of
> internal reflection similar to what I get with this certain OTC
> substance, I would be well most of the time, I think.
>
When you begin, you cannot meditate correctly by yourself. You must be
introduced and guided by someone who is experienced: zen or yoga teacher,
buddhist monk or so. Meditation is a long process of practice. It can take
a whole year before you can make youself relax correctly and make your
mind silent enough to perform 'real' work. However for someone who just
begins, being capable of reducing significantly the noise in the mind is
already a very good success. Who did not practice meditation for long
cannot imagine the power (including therapeutic).
The gate to meditation: breath.
Sam, from time to time, try to relax and concentrate on your breathing:
sounds (internal & external), movements of your chest, contact with the
matress or the chair, feeling of the air passing through, smells, the
shape of your body etc.. Every time you can do that and think of nothing
much else, you experience a parenthesis where depression is not present, a
bubble of positive living, an additional drop of 'antidote' in the
troubled glass.
When you walk and walk towads a mountain, you may feel it does not get any
closer. You walk and walk more and more, it seems to move away. But after
a undetermined period of time the mountain raises quite suddenly: you have
arrived.
The key: do not expect any result. A fortiori, any quick result. Just do
it. Do not interpret. Just notice that some phenomena occured.
Bruno
--
Utilisant le client e-mail révolutionnaire d'Opera :
http://www.opera.com/mail/
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Halbert wrote:
>> My heart and prayers go out to you both. I hope she understands the
>> importance of knowing her condition, and keeps a closer watch on it in the
>> future. How long will she be away, if you don't mind my asking?
>>
>> Sam
>
> You seem to be in better spirits. I hope that continues.
Thanks; I do as well.
> She should probably be out this fall but technically they could keep her for
> about four more years; the trouble she got into was rather serious. I'm sure
> she understands about her condition. As you know it's not easy to live
> with-- sometimes even for family members. Let me know if you find any herbal
> remedies that work for you too.
Wow, fours years is a long time to be separated. I hope things turn out
well.
I could have spent 3-7 years in prison myself, had events not gone as
they had. As it turned out, the very head of the mental health board has
a son, who at the time, ran into the same kind of trouble I did. She
pushed for a greater awareness of metal health issues, and I ended up
spending only six months in jail. You could say her son (an old friend
of the family's) and myself actually helped spread mental health
awareness in this county.
As for an herbal remedy that works... I know of a couple. These work for
acute symptoms, mainly:
1) Kava-kava (piper methysticum) is good for leveling a mood. You have
to take a lot (10-28 grams powdered root), and it's not that great for
the liver. Preparation for me has involved mixing the bulk powder into a
mug of strong hot chocolate. It adds a distinct minty flavor to the
beverage. Effects are a general relaxation of body and reduced anxiety,
with a curious preservation of cognitive function (you can still think
clearly).
2) Nutmeg works wonders, and has effectively lifted my depression and/or
culled my mania many times. The benefit is seen for up to 1-5 days
following initial dosing. You have to take a lot (2-5 seeds), and this
may not be good for one's liver. Preparation for me involves grating the
seeds with a fine cheese grater and mixing the bulk powder into a glass
of cold milk. It must be consumed quickly, for the taste and texture are
*very* unpleasant. The effects are much like cannabis (which I can't
have and probably don't need), but without the paranoia and psychotic
aspects, at least IME. It takes 2-6 hours for full effects. There is a
'minty' feeling to the whole body, and orifices may become dry (with red
eyes), as nutmeg has a slight anticholinergic effect. There may be some
stimulation and/or relaxation, and brightening of the mood. Whenever I
take it I end up engaging in creative activities and body stretching,
and my previous mood is usually forgotten. There have been reports of
"nutmeg psychosis," although I, having never suffered from such,
recommend exercising caution with this substance. Many people find the
effects of nutmeg very uncomfortable, but when considering the possible
negative outcome of an acute manic event, this seed can be very
valuable. The unpleasant aspects usually prevent nutmeg from being
abused recreationally. I would recommend it first be taken as a low dose
once during a stable phase, to see if there is any adverse reaction to it.
Of course, I would advise that you first research these things before
having your wife try them experimentally. I don't want to be responsible
for worsening a condition with drugs that I tolerate well.
Sam
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This line is from Sam:
~~~~~~~~~~~~
"There is safety in the presence of
council," therefore I must always surround myself with a support group,
be it familial, professional or even collegial.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Remember what p##sed me off the night I broke up with you...
......I had put too much faith in "professional" you said (amongst other stupid
things).....
Just so you know, my faith in the professional area has me covered and you are
suffering from your past issues. I'm not sorry for you. You can get rides down
into town by calling a friend. You can get meds if you were to see a
professional. You could have all the hand outs you want by just seeing a real
therapist like I do but you won't. It is a choice. If you want to live
miserably then keep going down the hard and rocky path. I've told you many
times to call my Dr. and I even invited you along for sessions. He'd get you
anything you needed to keep a clear head.
This isn't to go p##sing you off okay. I'm just angry that you won't go seek my
Dr. for help or a real therapist! When God gives you a life raft, you should
take it. I am handing you a life raft Sam Cat - hop in the bloody raft! Yes I
still flip'n care for you, yes it is hard to just keep my mouth shut, and yes
I'm always here looking after you. 3 years of dating and being best friends is
a long bloody time(for me anyway). So please I BEG YOU call my doctor....
Thanx
Lace
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On Wed, 07 May 2008 17:46:09 -0700, stbenge wrote:
> Of course, I would advise that you first research these things before
> having your wife try them experimentally. I don't want to be responsible
> for worsening a condition with drugs that I tolerate well.
>
> Sam
Very good advise.
One of the few remedies I found when Rx stuff didn't work, was cloves.
Chewing on them, clove oil in food or, my then favorite, clove
cigarettes. I never did understand why it worked so well, but I knew too
many people who switched to smoking them that the selected data I had
available said they had to work. Some other research seemed to note some
correlation, when I read about cloves online. Can't remember where that
was, though.
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