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... that someone pulled a power cord for only $10, or that the "Super
hacker" is a fraud ...
http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/The-Super-Hacker.aspx
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On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 10:46:00 -0500, Mike Raiford <mra### [at] hotmail com> wrote:
>... that someone pulled a power cord for only $10, or that the "Super
>hacker" is a fraud ...
>
It sounds like he found a valid vulnerability to me. Physically securing the hardware
is kind of important too.
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Kyle wrote:
>
> It sounds like he found a valid vulnerability to me. Physically securing the
hardware is kind of important too.
>
Security hole:
Trivially easy to bribe employees: Check.
Yes ... but, if the hacker didn't have access to the employees ...
BTW, would this be considered a denial of service attack?
Not worth $3500 to find that your employees can be bribed to unplug a
machine for $10, though.
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Mike Raiford wrote:
> Not worth $3500 to find that your employees can be bribed to unplug a
> machine for $10, though.
Apparently in a recent experiment, 80% of office workers were
successfully bribed into handing over their password in exchange for a
free pen. [Yes, a cheap 20p pen that you could buy in a shop for 20p.]
What the report *doesn't* say is how many of the passwords thus
collected were actually _valid_. ;-) I like to believe that office
workers are actually that smart. You know, for my sanity...
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>
> Apparently in a recent experiment, 80% of office workers were
> successfully bribed into handing over their password in exchange for a
> free pen. [Yes, a cheap 20p pen that you could buy in a shop for 20p.]
>
Somebody offering me a free pen in exchange for a password is likely to
hear the words "Go to hell"
But, that's just me. :)
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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
(Added)
Of course, my wife knows my passwords for the computer at home, so I
suppose I am susceptible to a social engineering attack, too .. :D
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Mike Raiford escribió:
> "Go to hell"
Ah so that's your password?
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On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:44:27 -0500, Mike Raiford
<mra### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
>
>Somebody offering me a free pen in exchange for a password is likely to
>hear the words "Go to hell"
>
>But, that's just me. :)
And me ;)
--
Regards
Stephen
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"Orchid XP v8" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message
news:4818b6ed$1@news.povray.org...
> What the report *doesn't* say is how many of the passwords thus
> collected were actually _valid_. ;-) I like to believe that office
> workers are actually that smart. You know, for my sanity...
A few years back, I did a test on password security for an app I was working
on. The data in the DB was very important and very sensitive. They type of
data that the competitor would love to see. (Mineral resource exploration
data)
I managed to gather 35% of the passwords with a dictionary hack, including
that of the chief geologist, and another 10% by wandering through the
offices upstairs, including that of the manager of the division.
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Mike Raiford wrote:
>
> Somebody offering me a free pen in exchange for a password is likely to
> hear the words "Go to hell"
I'd give him/her a password. A real password, a one that's so cryptic it
doesn't even match any system out there.
--
Eero "Aero" Ahonen
http://www.zbxt.net
aer### [at] removethiszbxtnetinvalid
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Mike Raiford <mra### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> ... that someone pulled a power cord for only $10, or that the "Super
> hacker" is a fraud ...
> http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/The-Super-Hacker.aspx
What bothers me about that story is that it's not at all clear whether
the "super hacker" was indeed a competent security analyst or just some
opportunistic fraudster.
In theory it could be either way: Sometimes hacking into a "secure"
system is easier than people realize, and this experienced security
analyst demonstrated in practice how it happens. Or maybe he was just
an incompetent opportunist who got lucky.
--
- Warp
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On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:44:27 -0500, Mike Raiford wrote:
> Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>
>> Apparently in a recent experiment, 80% of office workers were
>> successfully bribed into handing over their password in exchange for a
>> free pen. [Yes, a cheap 20p pen that you could buy in a shop for 20p.]
>>
>>
> Somebody offering me a free pen in exchange for a password is likely to
> hear the words "Go to hell"
>
> But, that's just me. :)
That only works so long as they don't have one of these:
http://www.goohf.com/
:-)
Jim
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Gail Shaw wrote:
> I managed to gather 35% of the passwords with a dictionary hack, including
> that of the chief geologist, and another 10% by wandering through the
> offices upstairs, including that of the manager of the division.
Many (15+) years ago, I was shown how Kerberos makes this impossible to
prevent, apparently because the first step of the protocol is to send to
the server the client's "username" part, and the second step is the
server answering with the encrypted password. The guy demonstrating
this had apparently cracked something like 40% of the passwords at the
university.
I wonder if that's been improved...
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
"That's pretty. Where's that?"
"It's the Age of Channelwood."
"We should go there on vacation some time."
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Warp wrote:
> an incompetent opportunist who got lucky.
Personally, I can't imagine anyone who actually works there actually
pulling the plug on a server for $10. The janitor, maybe, but who would
go unplug a computer in a server room of the company you work for??
"Yeah, and I'll give you $20 if you let the air out of all the tires on
the car with the license tag ABC123!"
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
"That's pretty. Where's that?"
"It's the Age of Channelwood."
"We should go there on vacation some time."
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On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 18:11:31 -0700, Darren New wrote:
> "Yeah, and I'll give you $20 if you let the air out of all the tires on
> the car with the license tag ABC123!"
IT WAS YOU! ;-)
Jim
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Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 18:11:31 -0700, Darren New wrote:
>
>> "Yeah, and I'll give you $20 if you let the air out of all the tires on
>> the car with the license tag ABC123!"
>
> IT WAS YOU! ;-)
Or, as we used to say in college, "Ha ha, you're out of spare tires! You
lose!"
It was never useful to let the air out of only one tire.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
"That's pretty. Where's that?"
"It's the Age of Channelwood."
"We should go there on vacation some time."
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On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:57:32 -0700, Darren New wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 18:11:31 -0700, Darren New wrote:
>>
>>> "Yeah, and I'll give you $20 if you let the air out of all the tires
>>> on the car with the license tag ABC123!"
>>
>> IT WAS YOU! ;-)
>
> Or, as we used to say in college, "Ha ha, you're out of spare tires! You
> lose!"
>
> It was never useful to let the air out of only one tire.
LOL, now that's funny. :-)
Jim
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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Personally, I can't imagine anyone who actually works there actually
> pulling the plug on a server for $10. The janitor, maybe
First you say you can't imagine anyone, and then you give a plausible
someone.
--
- Warp
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On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:44:27 -0500, Mike Raiford <mra### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
>Somebody offering me a free pen in exchange for a password is likely to
>hear the words "Go to hell"
What if it's a space pen that writes upside down? :-P
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And lo on Thu, 01 May 2008 02:11:31 +0100, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom>
did spake, saying:
> Warp wrote:
>> an incompetent opportunist who got lucky.
>
> Personally, I can't imagine anyone who actually works there actually
> pulling the plug on a server for $10. The janitor, maybe, but who would
> go unplug a computer in a server room of the company you work for??
>
> "Yeah, and I'll give you $20 if you let the air out of all the tires on
> the car with the license tag ABC123!"
"Yeah hi can you help me? I'm trying to monitor network flow and as one of
the tests I need to simulate a small power outage. Trouble is I need to be
at my desk when the power goes off. So could you do me a favour wait for
five minutes and just switch this socket off for me? Don't worry about
turning it back on I'll be back after I've done my tests and as, you know,
you shouldn't have to do this here's $10 for your trouble"
Hands-up those who think that'd work with a layperson.
Hands-up those who think that'd work without the $10 inducement
Hands-up those who think that'd work without the $10 inducement and done
over the telephone :-)
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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Phil Cook <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
> Hands-up those who think that'd work without the $10 inducement and done
> over the telephone :-)
A while ago there was a small scandal somewhere (I really can't remember
where it was; I can't even remember if it was in the US or here in Finland,
or maybe some other country) because someone got private information from
a company by simply going and asking for it. He was so formal and convincing
that the secretary (or whoever it was) didn't even hesitate.
This kind of fraud actually has a name (because it's so common): Social
engineering.
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> This kind of fraud actually has a name (because it's so common): Social
> engineering.
And what's more, this kind of vulnerability can't be patched simply by
visiting Windows Update or something. ;-)
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> Warp wrote:
> > This kind of fraud actually has a name (because it's so common): Social
> > engineering.
> And what's more, this kind of vulnerability can't be patched simply by
> visiting Windows Update or something. ;-)
But it's the reason why many companies have very restricted access to
the server room, and all visits are automatically logged.
If you need your server to be secure, it's not enough to prevent
attacks from the outside. You have to also prevent attacks from the
inside.
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> But it's the reason why many companies have very restricted access to
> the server room, and all visits are automatically logged.
Or at least, they do if they know what's good for them.
> If you need your server to be secure, it's not enough to prevent
> attacks from the outside. You have to also prevent attacks from the
> inside.
My thoughts exactly.
By the way, did I mention that I don't have the keys to my new server
room yet? I just walked past and noticed one of the decorators was in
there painting the ceiling. (!!) I just hope he doesn't spill any paint
on our equipment...
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Invisible wrote:
<snip>
>
> By the way, did I mention that I don't have the keys to my new server
> room yet? I just walked past and noticed one of the decorators was in
> there painting the ceiling. (!!) I just hope he doesn't spill any paint
> on our equipment...
>
O_O
Who's the project manager? Remind me never to use them
John
--
I will be brief but not nearly so brief as Salvador Dali, who gave the
world's shortest speech. He said, "I will be so brief I am already
finished," then he sat down.
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And lo on Thu, 01 May 2008 14:50:35 +0100, Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> did
spake, saying:
> Phil Cook <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
>> Hands-up those who think that'd work without the $10 inducement and done
>> over the telephone :-)
<snip>
> This kind of fraud actually has a name (because it's so common): Social
> engineering.
Indeed and as with Gail's example Mr Super Hacker might also have chosen
to breach security by simply wandering through the offices pretending to
be a courier/delivery guy/whatever and noting the sticky notes on monitors.
In the same vein it constantly astonishes me how many people tap their PIN
number for their credit/debit cards into shop terminals without a care in
the world. A couple of times when standing behind them and they're
blatantly oblivious to the world around them I've waited for them to
finish and then said "Don't worry I wasn't really watching you enter your
PIN" they look so startled it's scary.
Personal note: I wrap both hands around the pad and peer into it like a
periscope before tapping in my number with my thumb and yes I do get odd
looks from cashiers at times for doing this.
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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Warp wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> Personally, I can't imagine anyone who actually works there actually
>> pulling the plug on a server for $10. The janitor, maybe
>
> First you say you can't imagine anyone, and then you give a plausible
> someone.
I meant to imply the janitor doesn't work for the company. By "works
there", I meant not "works in the building" but "works for the owner of
the company".
Most office buildings have janitorial staff that works for the landlord,
not that works for the individual renters of the buildings. At least in
my experience.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
"That's pretty. Where's that?"
"It's the Age of Channelwood."
"We should go there on vacation some time."
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Phil Cook wrote:
> Hands-up those who think that'd work with a layperson.
Yeah, OK, I can see that scene working. :-)
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
"That's pretty. Where's that?"
"It's the Age of Channelwood."
"We should go there on vacation some time."
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Invisible wrote:
> And what's more, this kind of vulnerability can't be patched simply by
> visiting Windows Update or something. ;-)
I saw a t-shirt that said something along the lines of
"Social Engineering: Because there is no patch for human stupidity."
I thought one that said
"Social Engineering: Because Humans are still at 1.0Beta"
would be more geeky.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
"That's pretty. Where's that?"
"It's the Age of Channelwood."
"We should go there on vacation some time."
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Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> By the way, did I mention that I don't have the keys to my new server
> room yet? I just walked past and noticed one of the decorators was in
> there painting the ceiling. (!!) I just hope he doesn't spill any paint
> on our equipment...
Inner security at its best?-)
--
- Warp
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Phil Cook <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
> Personal note: I wrap both hands around the pad and peer into it like a
> periscope before tapping in my number with my thumb and yes I do get odd
> looks from cashiers at times for doing this.
You'll have to admit it looks a bit paranoid... :P
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
>
> You'll have to admit it looks a bit paranoid... :P
>
Maybe, but when considering security paranoia is the name of the game.
John
--
I will be brief but not nearly so brief as Salvador Dali, who gave the
world's shortest speech. He said, "I will be so brief I am already
finished," then he sat down.
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Phil Cook wrote:
> In the same vein it constantly astonishes me how many people tap their
> PIN number for their credit/debit cards into shop terminals without a
> care in the world.
That's why I only have credit cards and not debit cards. (Other than an
ATM card, which I'm careful with at the machine in much the same way. :-)
Of course, living in a country where the banks tend to take the hit
rather than the bank's customers helps too.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
"That's pretty. Where's that?"
"It's the Age of Channelwood."
"We should go there on vacation some time."
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Darren New wrote:
>
> I thought one that said
> "Social Engineering: Because Humans are still at 1.0Beta"
> would be more geeky.
>
When have we evolved past the alpha-level? :p
--
Eero "Aero" Ahonen
http://www.zbxt.net
aer### [at] removethiszbxtnetinvalid
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Warp wrote:
> Inner security at its best?-)
"Evidently the Cardasians considered their *security officer* a
*security risk*. This entire room is sealed to the bulkheads by
forcefields. I can't shapeshift out of here..."
[Odo. Deep Space 9.]
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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>> You'll have to admit it looks a bit paranoid... :P
>>
> Maybe, but when considering security paranoia is the name of the game.
Well, as I understand it, if they don't physically have your card,
knowing your PIN isn't much help anyway...
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Darren New wrote:
> Invisible wrote:
>> And what's more, this kind of vulnerability can't be patched simply by
>> visiting Windows Update or something. ;-)
>
> I saw a t-shirt that said something along the lines of
> "Social Engineering: Because there is no patch for human stupidity."
>
> I thought one that said
> "Social Engineering: Because Humans are still at 1.0Beta"
> would be more geeky.
"It's a wetware issue."
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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And lo on Thu, 01 May 2008 16:39:59 +0100, Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> did
spake, saying:
> Phil Cook <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
>> Personal note: I wrap both hands around the pad and peer into it like a
>> periscope before tapping in my number with my thumb and yes I do get odd
>> looks from cashiers at times for doing this.
>
> You'll have to admit it looks a bit paranoid... :P
and there I was thinking it just made me look like Sean Connery in Red
Oktober, damn ;-)
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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Invisible wrote:
>>> You'll have to admit it looks a bit paranoid... :P
>>>
>> Maybe, but when considering security paranoia is the name of the game.
>
> Well, as I understand it, if they don't physically have your card,
> knowing your PIN isn't much help anyway...
>
You enter your PIN; I note it and signal success to my accomplice; my
accomplice picks your pocket obtaining your card; I use your card.
BTW your credit limit has now been exceeded ;-)
John
--
I will be brief but not nearly so brief as Salvador Dali, who gave the
world's shortest speech. He said, "I will be so brief I am already
finished," then he sat down.
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And lo on Thu, 01 May 2008 16:58:55 +0100, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did
spake, saying:
>>> You'll have to admit it looks a bit paranoid... :P
>>>
>> Maybe, but when considering security paranoia is the name of the game.
>
> Well, as I understand it, if they don't physically have your card,
> knowing your PIN isn't much help anyway...
Um yes, but if I've only a small amount of shopping that results in a
quick transaction then I am now following you out of the store. So I just
bop you over the head, nick your wallet, and head to the nearest ATM.
That's not to mention the cloning devices that can be affixed to the front
of readers etc.
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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And lo on Thu, 01 May 2008 16:56:37 +0100, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom>
did spake, saying:
> Phil Cook wrote:
>> In the same vein it constantly astonishes me how many people tap their
>> PIN number for their credit/debit cards into shop terminals without a
>> care in the world.
>
> That's why I only have credit cards and not debit cards.
Ditto, you get a delay in transactions and extra fraud protection.
> (Other than an ATM card, which I'm careful with at the machine in much
> the same way. :-)
See Warp you can't be paranoid if more then one person acts in the same
way :-P
> Of course, living in a country where the banks tend to take the hit
> rather than the bank's customers helps too.
IIRC the burden is spread between the bank and the store (if regarding a
purchase) with the store often getting the short end of the stick.
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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And lo on Thu, 01 May 2008 17:02:46 +0100, Doctor John
<doc### [at] gmailcom> did spake, saying:
> Invisible wrote:
>>>> You'll have to admit it looks a bit paranoid... :P
>>>>
>>> Maybe, but when considering security paranoia is the name of the game.
>>
>> Well, as I understand it, if they don't physically have your card,
>> knowing your PIN isn't much help anyway...
>>
> You enter your PIN; I note it and signal success to my accomplice; my
> accomplice picks your pocket obtaining your card; I use your card.
Ah see I wasn't quite as genteel.
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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Phil Cook wrote:
> And lo on Thu, 01 May 2008 17:02:46 +0100, Doctor John
> <doc### [at] gmailcom> did spake, saying:
>
>> Invisible wrote:
>>>>> You'll have to admit it looks a bit paranoid... :P
>>>>>
>>>> Maybe, but when considering security paranoia is the name of the game.
>>>
>>> Well, as I understand it, if they don't physically have your card,
>>> knowing your PIN isn't much help anyway...
>>>
>> You enter your PIN; I note it and signal success to my accomplice; my
>> accomplice picks your pocket obtaining your card; I use your card.
>
> Ah see I wasn't quite as genteel.
>
I'm non-violent but I can cause lots of damage :-D
John
--
I will be brief but not nearly so brief as Salvador Dali, who gave the
world's shortest speech. He said, "I will be so brief I am already
finished," then he sat down.
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Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> Mike Raiford escribió:
>> "Go to hell"
>
> Ah so that's your password?
Yes! I use it for everything. Even my bank accounts at
worldempirebank.com :)
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Kyle wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:44:27 -0500, Mike Raiford <mra### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
>
>> Somebody offering me a free pen in exchange for a password is likely to
>> hear the words "Go to hell"
>
> What if it's a space pen that writes upside down? :-P
>
>
Hmm, compelling; but, no.
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Darren New wrote:
> "Yeah, and I'll give you $20 if you let the air out of all the tires on
> the car with the license tag ABC123!"
Oka .... heeey, wait a minute! That's my car!
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Phil Cook wrote:
> Personal note: I wrap both hands around the pad and peer into it like a
> periscope before tapping in my number with my thumb and yes I do get odd
> looks from cashiers at times for doing this.
I try to avoid situations where I would need to use my PIN.
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Eero Ahonen <aer### [at] removethiszbxtnetinvalid> wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
> >
> > I thought one that said
> > "Social Engineering: Because Humans are still at 1.0Beta"
> > would be more geeky.
> >
> When have we evolved past the alpha-level? :p
In software the usual versioning terminology is that an "alpha" version
is one which still doesn't have all the planned features, ie. features are
still being added, while a "beta" version is a version of the software which
has all the features but still lacks complete bug testing (ie. it "should
work" but there may be still bugs left).
I suppose the analogy with people is not all that bad.
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> Eero Ahonen <aer### [at] removethiszbxtnetinvalid> wrote:
>> Darren New wrote:
>>> I thought one that said
>>> "Social Engineering: Because Humans are still at 1.0Beta"
>>> would be more geeky.
>>>
>
>> When have we evolved past the alpha-level? :p
>
> In software the usual versioning terminology is that an "alpha" version
> is one which still doesn't have all the planned features, ie. features are
> still being added, while a "beta" version is a version of the software which
> has all the features but still lacks complete bug testing (ie. it "should
> work" but there may be still bugs left).
>
> I suppose the analogy with people is not all that bad.
>
Do you think we already have all the planned features now or are there
new ones still to be added later?
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andrel wrote:
> Do you think we already have all the planned features now or are there
> new ones still to be added later?
Hmm, let me see...
- MTBF: approx 50 years.
- Operating conditions:
-8°C to +45°C air temparature
0% to 100% humidity
0.8 to 2.6 atmospheres of external pressure
10% to 100% gasseous O2 environment
- Can endure [without damage] impacts that would dent plate steel.
- Can survive accelerations in excess of 4G.
- Can survive impact shocks in excess of 4,000G.
- Can survive brief contact with extreme temparatures (down to -4°C and
up to +80°C).
- 0-maintenance on all components. (!)
- Most non-fatal injuries automatically repaired while unit remains
operational. (!!!)
- Multiple redundant subsystems:
Dual waste filtration systems.
Dual gas exchange systems.
Dual acoustic sensors. [Also provide enhanced data when combined.]
Dual optical sensors. [Also provide enhanced data when combined.]
- Many systems feature extreme fault-tolerance:
Can survive with less than 50% of normal blood volume.
Can survive with less than 50% of the liver intact.
Can survive with less than 25% of the bone marrow intact.
etc.
- Resistant to a wide variety of inactive and active threats. [Violent
shock, extreme temparatures, corrosive chemicals, toxins, microrganisms,
virii, etc.]
- Central nervous system with cognative abilities unrivalled by any
organism on Earth, as far as we know.
- Ability to procreate. (!!!!!)
Seriously... WHAT THE HELL ELSE DO YOU WANT?!
;-)
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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