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...PnP device drivers are programmed into the device themselves, not
bundled as generic packages with windows
...one can decompile windows and see the original comments from the code
...75% of the space windows occupies is junk comments that can be
removed after aforementioned decompile
...a unix kernel has no form of security whatsoever; any security,
including non-superuser accounts, must be programmed by the admin
separately or dropped in as modules that the admin configures, and
contain 'back doors' that those in the know can readily access
...2 semesters of C and Pascal programming at university is sufficient
to establish certain knowledge that any system security that the OS
itself handles is bad, third-party software is definitely the way to go
*flabbergasted after dinner conversation with housemate*
--
Tim Cook
http://empyrean.freesitespace.net
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GFA dpu- s: a?-- C++(++++) U P? L E--- W++(+++)>$
N++ o? K- w(+) O? M-(--) V? PS+(+++) PE(--) Y(--)
PGP-(--) t* 5++>+++++ X+ R* tv+ b++(+++) DI
D++(---) G(++) e*>++ h+ !r--- !y--
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
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Tim Cook <z99### [at] gmail com> wrote:
> ...PnP device drivers are programmed into the device themselves, not
> bundled as generic packages with windows
> ...one can decompile windows and see the original comments from the code
> ...75% of the space windows occupies is junk comments that can be
> removed after aforementioned decompile
> ...a unix kernel has no form of security whatsoever; any security,
> including non-superuser accounts, must be programmed by the admin
> separately or dropped in as modules that the admin configures, and
> contain 'back doors' that those in the know can readily access
> ...2 semesters of C and Pascal programming at university is sufficient
> to establish certain knowledge that any system security that the OS
> itself handles is bad, third-party software is definitely the way to go
> *flabbergasted after dinner conversation with housemate*
The sad thing is that bosses usually eagerly hire that kind of people
because they like what they are saying.
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> The sad thing is that bosses usually eagerly hire that kind of people
> because they like what they are saying.
quod enim mavult homo verum esse, id potius credit.
Sad but true...
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 00:16:19 -0400, Tim Cook wrote:
> *flabbergasted after dinner conversation with housemate*
Egads, you know my B-I-L Neil? He once made the assertion that if you
load a document created with a newer version of Word for Mac (but *only*
for Mac) into an older version of Word for Mac, the *document* will
upgrade your older version of Word to the newer version so you can read/
edit the document.
That conversation (held over Thanksgiving dinner about 9 years ago)
caused me to go into the pantry and start hitting my head against the
wall.
Jim
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Tim Cook wrote:
> ....PnP device drivers are programmed into the device themselves, not
> bundled as generic packages with windows
This is actually true for some types of USB devices. I.e., USB has a
mechanism whereby it can provide the driver to the machine when you plug
it in. (I think the driver gets presented as files on a "removable disk"
interface, which the OS is supposed to recognise and install and restart
the USB device afterwards.)
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
"That's pretty. Where's that?"
"It's the Age of Channelwood."
"We should go there on vacation some time."
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Darren New wrote:
> This is actually true for some types of USB devices. I.e., USB has a
> mechanism whereby it can provide the driver to the machine when you plug
> it in. (I think the driver gets presented as files on a "removable disk"
> interface, which the OS is supposed to recognise and install and restart
> the USB device afterwards.)
Interesting. And how do you account for the fact that the USB device
could be connected to any possible computer architecture, running any
possible OS?
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Darren New wrote:
> Tim Cook wrote:
>> ....PnP device drivers are programmed into the device themselves, not
>> bundled as generic packages with windows
>
> This is actually true for some types of USB devices. I.e., USB has a
> mechanism whereby it can provide the driver to the machine when you plug
> it in. (I think the driver gets presented as files on a "removable disk"
> interface, which the OS is supposed to recognise and install and restart
> the USB device afterwards.)
yeah the wireless keyboard/mouse that came with this machine had a USB
stick that was the drivers/RF receiver. pretty slick. but I think
housemate was saying in general. that those .cab files windows hoards
aren't full of drivers for 50,000 flavours of hardware.
--
Tim Cook
http://empyrean.digitalartsuk.com
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GFA dpu- s: a?-- C++(++++) U P? L E--- W++(+++)>$
N++ o? K- w(+) O? M-(--) V? PS+(+++) PE(--) Y(--)
PGP-(--) t* 5++>+++++ X+ R* tv+ b++(+++) DI
D++(---) G(++) e*>++ h+ !r--- !y--
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>
> Interesting. And how do you account for the fact that the USB device
> could be connected to any possible computer architecture, running any
> possible OS?
>
Usually they just assume You're running Windows on x86.
--
Eero "Aero" Ahonen
http://www.zbxt.net
aer### [at] removethiszbxtnetinvalid
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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Interesting. And how do you account for the fact that the USB device
> could be connected to any possible computer architecture, running any
> possible OS?
The same way you account for a CD that can boot on multiple
architectures. I imagine if the driver for your OS isn't on the "usb
disk drive", then you need to get it somewhere else.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
"That's pretty. Where's that?"
"It's the Age of Channelwood."
"We should go there on vacation some time."
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Tim Cook wrote:
> housemate was saying in general.
Yah. I'm just saying that it's not completely insane, but just possibly
someone who is ignorant of the details trying to understand something
that requires knowing the details to get right. :-)
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
"That's pretty. Where's that?"
"It's the Age of Channelwood."
"We should go there on vacation some time."
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>> Interesting. And how do you account for the fact that the USB device
>> could be connected to any possible computer architecture, running any
>> possible OS?
>
> The same way you account for a CD that can boot on multiple
> architectures.
Really? I wasn't aware that it's possible to do that either...
> I imagine if the driver for your OS isn't on the "usb
> disk drive", then you need to get it somewhere else.
Fair enough...
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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"Darren New" <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote in message
news:480a144b@news.povray.org...
> Tim Cook wrote:
> > ....PnP device drivers are programmed into the device themselves, not
> > bundled as generic packages with windows
>
> This is actually true for some types of USB devices.
My laptop 3G modem does this too. Windows initially sees it as a CDRom, with
the installation program on it.
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Gail Shaw wrote:
> My laptop 3G modem does this too. Windows initially sees it as a CDRom, with
> the installation program on it.
Then there's the old Atari 800 modem, which looked for ten consecutive
failed requests to read the boot sector off the floppy drive and on the
eleventh try said "Oh! Me! Here I am!" and proceeded to install the
drivers. :-)
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
"That's pretty. Where's that?"
"It's the Age of Channelwood."
"We should go there on vacation some time."
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I've had occasion to look at MS Windows binaries and I have never seen
anything resembling a comment from the source. When I think about it, I
wonder how one would intentionaly preserve their comments in a compiled
binary. Their may be a way, but I don't know about it. I would guess it
would have to be a compiler switch I've never used.
On the other hand, I have seen source code from MS Windows in it's original
form before and seen some very bad programming habits. (Such as the use of
goto in source written in C)
--
H²
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Halbert wrote:
> When I think about it, I
> wonder how one would intentionaly preserve their comments in a compiled
> binary.
I'm wondering if whoever invented this idea might have been thinking of
things like in the .NET compiled objects where it might be storing
java-doc-like descriptions of the interface routines in the binaries.
Technically, comments from the source, but not really what a programmer
would think of as "comments from the source." That, module attributes
(for run-time reflection, whatever they're called in .NET), debugging
symbols, etc?
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
"That's pretty. Where's that?"
"It's the Age of Channelwood."
"We should go there on vacation some time."
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Darren New wrote:
> Halbert wrote:
>> When I think about it, I wonder how one would intentionaly preserve
>> their comments in a compiled binary.
>
> I'm wondering if whoever invented this idea might have been thinking of
> things like in the .NET compiled objects where it might be storing
> java-doc-like descriptions of the interface routines in the binaries.
> Technically, comments from the source, but not really what a programmer
> would think of as "comments from the source." That, module attributes
> (for run-time reflection, whatever they're called in .NET), debugging
> symbols, etc?
>
More than likely debugging symbols, and they just didn't understand what
those are.
--
...Ben Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com
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"Chambers" <ben### [at] pacificwebguycom> wrote in message
news:480b92c5$1@news.povray.org...
>
> More than likely debugging symbols, and they just didn't understand what
> those are.
Except, AFAIK, the symbols aren't included in any MS program. If you want
the debugging symbols, you have to download them seperatly.
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Gail Shaw escribió:
> "Chambers" <ben### [at] pacificwebguycom> wrote
>> More than likely debugging symbols, and they just didn't understand what
>> those are.
>
> Except, AFAIK, the symbols aren't included in any MS program. If you want
> the debugging symbols, you have to download them seperatly.
Windows never defined a way to include debugging symbols inside the
executable. It's always in separate .pdb files.
If you compile Windows programs with gcc, with debugging symbols
enabled, they end up inside the .exe like on Linux, and gdb works on
them; but it's incompatible with MSVC debugger. And viceversa; gdb
doesn't understand .pdb symbol files.
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Gail Shaw wrote:
> Except, AFAIK, the symbols aren't included in any MS program. If you want
> the debugging symbols, you have to download them seperatly.
Except they're technically not "debugging symbols" in DLLs and .NET
stuff, since you dynamically link them. They're entry points for the
linking loader, not for the debugger.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
"That's pretty. Where's that?"
"It's the Age of Channelwood."
"We should go there on vacation some time."
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And lo on Sat, 19 Apr 2008 16:53:31 +0100, Tim Cook <z99### [at] gmailcom>
did spake, saying:
> those .cab files windows hoards aren't full of drivers for 50,000
> flavours of hardware.
Should have told him that cabs always come with drivers and that's how
Windows moves its files around using the GetTaxi call.
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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Phil Cook wrote:
>> flavours of hardware.
>
> Should have told him that cabs always come with drivers and that's how
> Windows moves its files around using the GetTaxi call.
>
Excellent! :-)
John
--
I will be brief but not nearly so brief as Salvador Dali, who gave the
world's shortest speech. He said, "I will be so brief I am already
finished," then he sat down.
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