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My copy of Kontact comes with three organ sounds. These are labelled as
"Voix Humaine 8'", "Pos-Scharff", and my personal favourit, "Fonds +
Quint". Does any of that mean *anything* to anybody here?
I'm trying to play organ music, but obviously I know nothing about
organs! ;-) Oh yeah, and the digital instrument has only 5 octive range.
I guess they couldn't be bothered to record the rest or something. Has
some *serious* reverb too - presumably from the hall where they recorded
it. It's actually hard to play in time due to the lag between hitting a
key and the note sounding at full volume... the reverberations are
confusing my timing! :-S
On a completely unrelated note... [see what I did there?] does anybody
know what "sforzando" means? (Or how you pronouce it!) Similarly,
"flageolet". (Damn, so many instruments, so many specialised terms...
I'm learning so much just by fiddling with this software. Get it?
Fiddling? Oh never mind!)
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 21:41:41 +0200, Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] dev null> wrote:
> On a completely unrelated note... [see what I did there?] does anybody
> know what "sforzando" means?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamics_(music)#Sudden_changes
> (Or how you pronouce it!)
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sforzando
> Similarly, "flageolet".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flageolet
Are we learning yet?
--
FE
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On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 20:41:41 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> My copy of Kontact comes with three organ sounds. These are labelled as
> "Voix Humaine 8'", "Pos-Scharff", and my personal favourit, "Fonds +
> Quint". Does any of that mean *anything* to anybody here?
I *think* those descriptions are Gaelic; I can't find my dictionary,
though, to check. I know someone who speaks a dialect of Gaelic, though,
so he might be able to help translate.
Jim
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On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 20:41:41 +0100, Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull>
wrote:
>Similarly,
>"flageolet".
Posh name for tin whistle :) Flage-o-let
--
Regards
Stephen
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On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 21:41:41 +0200, Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> My copy of Kontact comes with three organ sounds. These are labelled as
> "Voix Humaine 8'", "Pos-Scharff", and my personal favourit, "Fonds +
> Quint". Does any of that mean *anything* to anybody here?
They appear to be organ stops. Presumably, the samples are from the "Notre
Dame de Budapest" sampling library.
--
FE
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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> "Voix Humaine 8'",
8 foot long "voice of humans" pipes.
> It's actually hard to play in time due to the lag between hitting a
> key and the note sounding at full volume...
This is actually pretty normal with pipe organs.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
"That's pretty. Where's that?"
"It's the Age of Channelwood."
"We should go there on vacation some time."
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>> On a completely unrelated note... [see what I did there?] does anybody
>> know what "sforzando" means?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamics_(music)#Sudden_changes
Hmm. OK. So it's a sudden yet unspecified sound emphasis?
>> (Or how you pronouce it!)
>
> http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sforzando
Ouch! :-S
>> Similarly, "flageolet".
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flageolet
Hmm. Interesting. There are two versions of the Harp instrument, marked
"normal" and "flageolet". So I'm guessing there is another sense to the
word...
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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>> My copy of Kontact comes with three organ sounds. These are labelled
>> as "Voix Humaine 8'", "Pos-Scharff", and my personal favourit, "Fonds
>> + Quint". Does any of that mean *anything* to anybody here?
>
> They appear to be organ stops.
I would guess so. I don't know much about this sort of thing...
> Presumably, the samples are from the
> "Notre Dame de Budapest" sampling library.
Well, Kontact *is* a sample library. (And one costing a vast amount of
money.) Of course, it's possible that not *all* of the samples it
contains were produced specially though... although certainly the
orchestral ones appear to be.
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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>> "Voix Humaine 8'",
>
> 8 foot long "voice of humans" pipes.
I figured it might be something like that.
>> It's actually hard to play in time due to the lag between hitting a
>> key and the note sounding at full volume...
>
> This is actually pretty normal with pipe organs.
I've never had the opportunity to play one - as you can probably imagine...
[I do have something of a fascination with them though. Still, it's not
something you can learn easily. They are rare instruments. And they're
LOUD!]
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 21:49:35 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>> On a completely unrelated note... [see what I did there?] does anybody
>>> know what "sforzando" means?
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamics_(music)#Sudden_changes
>
> Hmm. OK. So it's a sudden yet unspecified sound emphasis?
Not really unspecified; it's accented to an extent.
>>> (Or how you pronouce it!)
>>
>> http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sforzando
>
> Ouch! :-S
"sfort-san-do". It's Italian.
Jim
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On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 22:49:35 +0200, Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>>> Similarly, "flageolet".
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flageolet
>
> Hmm. Interesting. There are two versions of the Harp instrument, marked
> "normal" and "flageolet". So I'm guessing there is another sense to the
> word...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flageolet_(disambiguation)
Still not learning?
--
FE
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On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 22:51:05 +0200, Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>> Presumably, the samples are from the "Notre Dame de Budapest" sampling
>> library.
>
> Well, Kontact *is* a sample library. (And one costing a vast amount of
> money.) Of course, it's possible that not *all* of the samples it
> contains were produced specially though... although certainly the
> orchestral ones appear to be.
http://www.orgona.org
--
FE
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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> [I do have something of a fascination with them though. Still, it's not
> something you can learn easily. They are rare instruments. And they're
> LOUD!]
You should have been rooming in the house I stayed in during grad
school. The guy leasing it (who sub-leased a room to me) didn't know how
to play pipe organs, but he had an entire pipe organ in pieces all over
the house, occupying entire rooms sometimes, waiting (for a couple
decades) for the owner of the house to give him permission to knock down
a wall so he could build the pipe organ.
A bit of a nut-case he was. :-)
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
"That's pretty. Where's that?"
"It's the Age of Channelwood."
"We should go there on vacation some time."
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"Orchid XP v8" <voi### [at] devnull> a écrit dans le message de news:
47fd1bed$1@news.povray.org...
> My copy of Kontact comes with three organ sounds. These are labelled as
> "Voix Humaine 8'", "Pos-Scharff", and my personal favourit, "Fonds +
> Quint". Does any of that mean *anything* to anybody here?
>
A pipe organ is a kind of 2 dimensions array.
Collumns are notes played by the hands and feet keyboards
Rows are various stops allowing air to reach different sets of pipes.
Pipes are 2 kinds :
Flute pipes (made of wood or tin) that work like recorders but playing a
single note by pipe. Their pitch depends on their length and the
open/closedness of their top end.
In reeds, the sound is generated by a beating reed like a clarinet. Their
pitch is related to the length and mass of the reed, the pipe works mainly
on the colour of the sound.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pipe_organ
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vox_humana
Fonds are a mixed set of flute pipes, Fonds+Quinte are the same with a 5th
added to simulate odd harmonics.
Scharff is a German style mixture of high pitch pipes (mostly octaves and
5ths added to normal 8' pipes).
> I'm trying to play organ music, but obviously I know nothing about organs!
> ;-) Oh yeah, and the digital instrument has only 5 octive range. I guess
> they couldn't be bothered to record the rest or something. Has some
> *serious* reverb too - presumably from the hall where they recorded it.
> It's actually hard to play in time due to the lag between hitting a key
> and the note sounding at full volume... the reverberations are confusing
> my timing! :-S
Are you sure the reverb is sampled and not added afterwards? haven't you any
control on it?
If they recorded the reverb as well this is a bad idea.
Usually the organ player is sitting at the console relatively close to the
pipe set and has very short delay unless there is a remote mobile console as
in St Eustache in Paris where the organist can play (with some training to
anticipate the lag) among an orchestra.
Marc
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"Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> a écrit dans le message de news:
47fd202a$1@news.povray.org...
> On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 20:41:41 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>
>> My copy of Kontact comes with three organ sounds. These are labelled as
>> "Voix Humaine 8'", "Pos-Scharff", and my personal favourit, "Fonds +
>> Quint". Does any of that mean *anything* to anybody here?
>
> I *think* those descriptions are Gaelic; I can't find my dictionary,
> though, to check. I know someone who speaks a dialect of Gaelic, though,
> so he might be able to help translate.
>
> Jim
Don't look for your dictionary :-)
these are French and German names
Marc
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"Orchid XP v8" <voi### [at] devnull> a écrit dans le message de news:
47fd2c7a$1@news.povray.org...
>> This is actually pretty normal with pipe organs.
not when you are the player
>
> I've never had the opportunity to play one - as you can probably
> imagine...
I didn't either (my father does weekly though) but I had the opportunity to
record a handfull of them
>
> [I do have something of a fascination with them though. Still, it's not
> something you can learn easily. They are rare instruments. And they're
> LOUD!]
Strangely they are not so loud unless you unleash the whole set of pipes.
They give a powerful impression because of the richness of the harmonics
combination and the reverberation of the hall/church but the level barely
reaches 100dB. I had to record together an organ and a bombard (kind of
Breton traditionnal oboe) played by a single (good) player with his own
lungs and the organ was sometimes overwhelmed by the bombard.
Marc
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> Don't look for your dictionary :-)
> these are French and German names
Damn. And I thought all musical terms were Italian...
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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> A pipe organ is a kind of 2 dimensions array.
> Collumns are notes played by the hands and feet keyboards
> Rows are various stops allowing air to reach different sets of pipes.
> Pipes are 2 kinds :
> Flute pipes (made of wood or tin) that work like recorders but playing a
> single note by pipe. Their pitch depends on their length and the
> open/closedness of their top end.
> In reeds, the sound is generated by a beating reed like a clarinet. Their
> pitch is related to the length and mass of the reed, the pipe works mainly
> on the colour of the sound.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pipe_organ
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vox_humana
>
> Fonds are a mixed set of flute pipes, Fonds+Quinte are the same with a 5th
> added to simulate odd harmonics.
> Scharff is a German style mixture of high pitch pipes (mostly octaves and
> 5ths added to normal 8' pipes).
Heh. I knew somebody here would know...
So when you play organ music, how do you know which stops to use? Is it
written on the score, or do you just take a playing guess?
> Are you sure the reverb is sampled and not added afterwards? haven't you any
> control on it?
It appears to be the natural reverberation of whatever building this
particular organ is situated in.
> If they recorded the reverb as well this is a bad idea.
Probably. It does give the thing a fairly rich sound though... [while
also making it kinda tricky to play a good toccata or fugue.]
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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>> [I do have something of a fascination with them though. Still, it's not
>> something you can learn easily. They are rare instruments. And they're
>> LOUD!]
>
> Strangely they are not so loud unless you unleash the whole set of pipes.
> They give a powerful impression because of the richness of the harmonics
> combination and the reverberation of the hall/church but the level barely
> reaches 100dB. I had to record together an organ and a bombard (kind of
> Breton traditionnal oboe) played by a single (good) player with his own
> lungs and the organ was sometimes overwhelmed by the bombard.
I recently visited the Royal Albert Hall. It's a large arena with a
giant organ growing out of the back of it. They played some orchestral
music where every now and then the organ would join in.
Several times, I felt like just walking over to the orchestra and saying
"Hey guys, I'm sure you've practiced this endlessly, but seriously... Go
home. There's a 4-tonne pipe organ behind you. I'm sure what you think
you're playing sounds wonderful. But seriously. We. Can't. Hear. You.
Hell, I can't here *myself* right now! And my mum's handbag has so far
migrated about six feet across the floor due to the intense seismic
vibrations! Go home. You're wasting your time..."
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 09:18:11 +0200, M_a_r_c wrote:
> "Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> a écrit dans le message de news:
> 47fd202a$1@news.povray.org...
>> On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 20:41:41 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>
>>> My copy of Kontact comes with three organ sounds. These are labelled
>>> as "Voix Humaine 8'", "Pos-Scharff", and my personal favourit, "Fonds
>>> + Quint". Does any of that mean *anything* to anybody here?
>>
>> I *think* those descriptions are Gaelic; I can't find my dictionary,
>> though, to check. I know someone who speaks a dialect of Gaelic,
>> though, so he might be able to help translate.
>>
>> Jim
> Don't look for your dictionary :-)
> these are French and German names
I saw that a bit later, actually they did seem very dissimilar from the
Gaelic I had seen before, clearly the sample was too small for an
automated language identification to be made. :-)
Jim
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On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 09:16:36 +0100, Invisible wrote:
>> Don't look for your dictionary :-)
>> these are French and German names
>
> Damn. And I thought all musical terms were Italian...
Musical terms are (in general), but musical instruments aren't.
Jim
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"Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> a écrit dans le message de news:
47feb313$1@news.povray.org...
>>
> I saw that a bit later, actually they did seem very dissimilar from the
> Gaelic I had seen before, clearly the sample was too small for an
> automated language identification to be made. :-)
>
> Jim
I'm interested in what made you think of Gaelic
The closest connection between Gaelic and organs I can see is the Irish
uilleann pipes with its bellow, drones and regulators.
Marc
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On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 09:28:52 +0200, "M_a_r_c"
<jac### [at] wanadoofr> wrote:
>The closest connection between Gaelic and organs I can see is the Irish
>uilleann pipes with its bellow, drones and regulators.
Don't forget the Northumbrian Smallpipes :)
--
Regards
Stephen
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"Stephen" <mcavoysAT@aolDOTcom> a écrit dans le message de news:
5t5uv3ttvlfudqehdrvrbr79bo1t10qsut@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 09:28:52 +0200, "M_a_r_c"
> <jac### [at] wanadoofr> wrote:
>
>>The closest connection between Gaelic and organs I can see is the Irish
>>uilleann pipes with its bellow, drones and regulators.
>
> Don't forget the Northumbrian Smallpipes :)
> --
I didn't!
I played with a friend that plays Smallpipes among other wind
instruments.(maybe I have evidence of that somewere)
But playing Uilleann pipes with its bellow, bag, opening or closing end of
chanter, regulators and drones-stop is like struggling with giant squid in
20000 leagues under the sea ;-)
Marc
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On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 10:21:05 +0200, "M_a_r_c"
<jac### [at] wanadoofr> wrote:
>But playing Uilleann pipes with its bellow, bag, opening or closing end of
>chanter, regulators and drones-stop is like struggling with giant squid in
>20000 leagues under the sea ;-)
LOL. That reminds me of the Shetland fiddler who plays and dances at
the same time. (An old tradition up there :) I heard her on the radio
a couple of years ago. Yup! Playing and dancing at the same time on
the radio :)
--
Regards
Stephen
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On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 09:28:52 +0200, M_a_r_c wrote:
> "Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> a écrit dans le message de news:
> 47feb313$1@news.povray.org...
>>>
>> I saw that a bit later, actually they did seem very dissimilar from the
>> Gaelic I had seen before, clearly the sample was too small for an
>> automated language identification to be made. :-)
>>
>> Jim
> I'm interested in what made you think of Gaelic The closest connection
> between Gaelic and organs I can see is the Irish uilleann pipes with its
> bellow, drones and regulators.
I plugged the words into a language identification engine, and it
identified the words as being "briten" (I think was the result) - which
is derived from Gaelic and a few other languages.
Jim
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"Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> a écrit dans le message de news:
47ff9249@news.povray.org...
> I plugged the words into a language identification engine, and it
> identified the words as being "briten" (I think was the result) - which
> is derived from Gaelic and a few other languages.
>
> Jim
I think the language identification engine failed because there were 2 very
different languages : a Germanic one (German for "Scharff "*) and a Latin
one (French for "Fonds Quint(e)" and "Voix humaine" )
Marc
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On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 23:21:31 +0200, M_a_r_c wrote:
> "Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> a écrit dans le message de news:
> 47ff9249@news.povray.org...
>> I plugged the words into a language identification engine, and it
>> identified the words as being "briten" (I think was the result) - which
>> is derived from Gaelic and a few other languages.
>>
>> Jim
>
> I think the language identification engine failed because there were 2
> very different languages : a Germanic one (German for "Scharff "*) and a
> Latin one (French for "Fonds Quint(e)" and "Voix humaine" )
That's possible as well, though with just "Voix humaine" it identified
incorrectly - I think it probably is because the engine I used looks at
structures rather than words.
Jim
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"Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> a écrit dans le message de news:
47ffd8fa$1@news.povray.org...
> That's possible as well, though with just "Voix humaine" it identified
> incorrectly - I think it probably is because the engine I used looks at
> structures rather than words.
>
> Jim
I am not used to language identification engines but I think this one is a
bad one :
"Voix humaine" just stands for "human voice", typically latin roots language
("voce humana" in Italian).
Marc
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"Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> a écrit dans le message de news:
47ffd8fa$1@news.povray.org...
> I think it probably is because the engine I used looks at
> structures rather than words.
I think a good expert system should have more than one look on a problem :-)
Marc
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On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 23:44:09 +0200, M_a_r_c wrote:
> "Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> a écrit dans le message de news:
> 47ffd8fa$1@news.povray.org...
>> I think it probably is because the engine I used looks at structures
>> rather than words.
>
> I think a good expert system should have more than one look on a problem
> :-)
Well, I'd agree with that. Thing is, I just went with the first hit on
my search. :-)
Jim
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On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 23:40:50 +0200, M_a_r_c wrote:
> "Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> a écrit dans le message de news:
> 47ffd8fa$1@news.povray.org...
>> That's possible as well, though with just "Voix humaine" it identified
>> incorrectly - I think it probably is because the engine I used looks at
>> structures rather than words.
>>
>> Jim
>
> I am not used to language identification engines but I think this one is
> a bad one :
> "Voix humaine" just stands for "human voice", typically latin roots
> language ("voce humana" in Italian).
That was my first reaction, actually - that it was French. But not
speaking French, I wanted a second opinion, and rather than ask my
stepson (who is studying French) or his girlfriend (who has studied it
for a while), I took a suboptimal solution instead.
That'll teach me. ;-)
Jim
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