 |
|
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Jim Henderson wrote:
> The thing is, the watermark, in order to be meaningful, would have to re-
> encode exactly the same way.
No it wouldn't. People work on watermarks all the time that don't need
precise reencoding.
Xerox worked on systems for watermarking documents that would survive
being photocopied at the wrong size and then faxed, for example.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
On what day did God create the body thetans?
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 17:48:21 -0800, Darren New wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> The thing is, the watermark, in order to be meaningful, would have to
>> re- encode exactly the same way.
>
> No it wouldn't. People work on watermarks all the time that don't need
> precise reencoding.
>
> Xerox worked on systems for watermarking documents that would survive
> being photocopied at the wrong size and then faxed, for example.
I'm trying to see how that would work in a sound file, though. Visual
watermarks are generally a different matter.
Jim
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Jim Henderson wrote:
> I'm trying to see how that would work in a sound file, though.
Futz with the analog before you encode it the first time. It's going to
be more audible that one that wouldn't survive recodings, but if you
want a watermark that survives being played out a speaker and
re-recorded, that's what you need.
I don't know enough about the physics of it to know how to do it, but I
know it's been done (and broken) multiple times.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
On what day did God create the body thetans?
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On 11 Feb 2008 19:11:15 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospam com> wrote:
>
>It's not surprising; it is a fairly difficult piece; and if you think the
>march effect was tough, you ain't seen the violin bit for the start of
>the 5th movement. ;-)
No I've not and even if I had I wouldn't understand it. One of my biggest
disappointments in life is that I have no singing voice and can't keep time. :(
I march to the beat of a different drum, as they say :)
Regards
Stephen
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 20:35:18 -0800, Darren New wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> I'm trying to see how that would work in a sound file, though.
>
> Futz with the analog before you encode it the first time. It's going to
> be more audible that one that wouldn't survive recodings, but if you
> want a watermark that survives being played out a speaker and
> re-recorded, that's what you need.
>
> I don't know enough about the physics of it to know how to do it, but I
> know it's been done (and broken) multiple times.
Huh, I wouldn't have thought it could be done...too many variables..
Jim
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 08:36:11 +0000, Stephen wrote:
> On 11 Feb 2008 19:11:15 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>
>
>>It's not surprising; it is a fairly difficult piece; and if you think
>>the march effect was tough, you ain't seen the violin bit for the start
>>of the 5th movement. ;-)
>
> No I've not and even if I had I wouldn't understand it. One of my
> biggest disappointments in life is that I have no singing voice and
> can't keep time. :( I march to the beat of a different drum, as they say
> :)
Well, my violin teacher always said I couldn't count my way out of a wet
paper bag. (My sense of timing is pretty bad, but I still managed to be
pretty good even if I do say so myself <g>).
Jim
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On 12 Feb 2008 17:14:39 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>
>Well, my violin teacher always said I couldn't count my way out of a wet
>paper bag. (My sense of timing is pretty bad, but I still managed to be
>pretty good even if I do say so myself <g>).
I can get a recognisable tune out of a tin whistle but when I played the pipes I
couldn't do it in a band. :(
Regards
Stephen
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:37:09 +0000, Stephen wrote:
> On 12 Feb 2008 17:14:39 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>
>
>>Well, my violin teacher always said I couldn't count my way out of a wet
>>paper bag. (My sense of timing is pretty bad, but I still managed to be
>>pretty good even if I do say so myself <g>).
>
> I can get a recognisable tune out of a tin whistle but when I played the
> pipes I couldn't do it in a band. :(
Now that's something I never tried. (Both things, that is)
Jim
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Jim Henderson wrote:
> That's what I recall from a music history class I took years ago. I
> might be thinking of something else (perhaps "Simple Gifts" from
> Appalachian Spring).
That would make sense since it was definitely based on a shaker tune.
One of my favorite "folk" tunes to be honest (folk in quotes since it's
not all *that* old). Copland's use of it is very nice too.
It is interesting though that there'll occasionally be a classical tune
that I later learn actually originated in a folk song.
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 18:43:37 -0800, Kevin Wampler
<wampler+pov### [at] uwashingtonedu> wrote:
>Jim Henderson wrote:
>> That's what I recall from a music history class I took years ago. I
>> might be thinking of something else (perhaps "Simple Gifts" from
>> Appalachian Spring).
>
>That would make sense since it was definitely based on a shaker tune.
>One of my favorite "folk" tunes to be honest (folk in quotes since it's
>not all *that* old). Copland's use of it is very nice too.
>
>It is interesting though that there'll occasionally be a classical tune
>that I later learn actually originated in a folk song.
It is a bit of a paradox that a song that starts "It's a gift to be simple …"
can be changed into a complex classical piece. :) I do like Copland's version.
There was also a fashion for composers to write variations of folk music in the
classical period. Irish and Scottish songs got a makeover from the likes of
Beethoven and Weber etc.
Regards
Stephen
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Stephen <mcavoysATaolDOTcom@> wrote:
> There was also a fashion for composers to write variations of folk music in the
> classical period. Irish and Scottish songs got a makeover from the likes of
> Beethoven and Weber etc.
yeah, composers taking simple melodies and working on them is not something new.
Some say nationalism in music really began with Bartók, but Haydn, Liszt,
Brahms and folks always worked on folk music.
of course, such widespread musical practice of making whole works on simple
known melodies has no place in today's trademarked, copyrighted and DRMed
record-label-driven world, unless you get a license.
BTW, Firefox and Thunderbird are truly funny: they correctly spell check
classical composers names, but can't seem to bother with their own spelling...
:P
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 18:43:37 -0800, Kevin Wampler wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> That's what I recall from a music history class I took years ago. I
>> might be thinking of something else (perhaps "Simple Gifts" from
>> Appalachian Spring).
>
> That would make sense since it was definitely based on a shaker tune.
> One of my favorite "folk" tunes to be honest (folk in quotes since it's
> not all *that* old). Copland's use of it is very nice too.
Yes, I do rather like Copland's work (in general) and that particular
song in particular.
> It is interesting though that there'll occasionally be a classical tune
> that I later learn actually originated in a folk song.
Yeah, that's a nice thing to hear. I'm often surprised by the number of
works that include some variation of the Dies Irae, for example.
Jim
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Jim Henderson wrote:
> Yeah, that's a nice thing to hear. I'm often surprised by the number of
> works that include some variation of the Dies Irae, for example.
Heh, yeah it does somehow manage to find its way into a lot of works.
It seems to be one of the few themes which is regularly used by many
different composers as a part of a work (as opposed to a folk tune which
will generally not be so widely used). Come to think of it I can't
think of any other musical themes like this. The closest I can recall
offhand is the BACH theme, but as far as I know that's not nearly so
widely used as the Dies Irae.
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:21:21 -0800, Kevin Wampler wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Yeah, that's a nice thing to hear. I'm often surprised by the number
>> of works that include some variation of the Dies Irae, for example.
>
> Heh, yeah it does somehow manage to find its way into a lot of works. It
> seems to be one of the few themes which is regularly used by many
> different composers as a part of a work (as opposed to a folk tune which
> will generally not be so widely used). Come to think of it I can't
> think of any other musical themes like this. The closest I can recall
> offhand is the BACH theme, but as far as I know that's not nearly so
> widely used as the Dies Irae.
There is the bass theme that Tchaikovsky uses in a lot of his works
(March Slav, 1812 Overture, I think Cappricio Italien uses it as well) -
he's not the only one who uses it, but also not as widely used.
Of course, for a real wild ride, you need to listen to the 1712 Overture
by PDQ Bach.
Jim
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> Of course, for a real wild ride, you need to listen to the 1712 Overture
> by PDQ Bach.
ah, PDQ... poor untalented offspring of the great composer... :)
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 15:13:07 -0500, nemesis wrote:
> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> Of course, for a real wild ride, you need to listen to the 1712
>> Overture by PDQ Bach.
>
> ah, PDQ... poor untalented offspring of the great composer... :)
Ah yes. But then again, Schickele is something of a genius for what he
did with PDQ's works. Just shows what happens if you graduate from
Juliard. ;-)
Jim
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
