scott wrote:
>> As far as I can tell, the problem is that it's cheaper to make stuff 
>> in some distant country than to make it right here. When that changes, 
>> the problem should go away...
> 
> I don't think it will ever be the case that it costs the same to make 
> something in every country on Earth...

No. But if the price difference wasn't *so* vast, the cost of transport 
would make it work out to be cheaper in general to make stuff near to 
where you want it rather than half way across the world.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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And lo on Wed, 06 Feb 2008 22:43:12 -0000, Jim Henderson  
<nos### [at] nospamcom> did spake, saying:

> On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 22:28:30 +0000, Stephen wrote:
>
>> On 6 Feb 2008 17:02:53 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>>
>>> Those who tend to be successful, I think, tend to be people who instead
>>> of learning "how to build a paint sprayer", but rather how to follow
>>> instructions on how to build something.
>>
>> That is dispiriting.
>
> What, that people have to evolve their skills?  That's the way the world
> is (at least in the so-called "western world") these days.  Adapt or
> die....It sounds harsh, but it's reality.

Except ever since conveyor-belt style systems were introduced the skills  
gap has gotten wider and more difficult to jump.

>>> From there, one possible career path is process optimization, which can
>>> open a bunch of other doors as well.
>>>
>>>> That's the problem or at least one of them. Not everyone has the
>>>> opportunity to re-skill and move up.
>>>
>>> At least in my experience, the opportunities are there, but the
>>> motivation often isn't.  Of course, it's not 100% who have the
>>> opportunities (or don't have the motivation).
>>
>> I saw it differently here when Mrs T started to go the way she did. (I
>> won't go into that. It is an old story and you shouldn't talk politics
>> or religion if you want to keep friends. Oh what the Hell I can't keep
>> my mouth shut :)
>
> I'm happy to talk either politics or religion.  Maybe that's why I don't
> have a lot of friends. ;-)

Heh my current favourite topic is how the Conservative Party is promising  
to either bring back or abolish things that they removed or introduced  
last time they were in power. No-one remembers that's the trouble.

> I'm having a great debate right now with someone about the relative
> merits of calling Wicca a religion (he doesn't believe it is, and he's
> wrong <g>) and the US armed forces holding weekly services for those who
> are observant of that particular faith.  Of course, his definition for
> "religion" is pretty narrow - you have to believe in a monotheistic god,
> which generally narrows the field to Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.
> By his definition, Buddhism and Hinduism don't (and shouldn't) qualify.

The FSM is monotheistic :-)

>>> A big problem also has to
>>> do with people living beyond their means; when you do that, you can't
>>> take a lower paying job while you are re-skilling.
>>
>> How very true. Debt is a major problem here in the UK.
>
> Yeah, I understand that you guys are catching the sub-prime mortgage wave
> that hit us the end of last year.  Don't get bitten.

Big fuss quite a while ago about banks encouraging people to lie about  
their earnings in order to qualify for a mortgage, ah well I dealt with  
that on my blog some time ago. But Northern Rock is still a touchy subject  
in terms of the sub-prime wave.

>  I also understand
> that there's been an interesting development in a bank bought by Citi
> over there - that they're terminating accounts for people with *good*
> credit because they're not making any money on interest.  Terminating
> accounts for people who pay their cards off every month:  What's the
> world coming to?

Egg. Supposedly terminating accounts of high-risk customers (about 7% of  
their base) i.e. those whose credit ratings have changed for the worse  
since they applied; trouble is some of those terminated customers are  
pointing at their perfect credit ratings. The common factors for these  
people appear to be their status as homeowners and that they pay off the  
balance in full every month. IOW they don't make any money for Egg and  
instead could be persuaded to take out a big fat loan instead using their  
home as collateral.

Not really new - MBNA added an annual charge to people who didn't use  
their credit card enough and apparently First Direct started charging a  
monthly fee for customers who didn't credit enough money into their  
accounts each month.

The option is simple - move companies, there's enough about.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

Post a reply to this message

And lo on Wed, 06 Feb 2008 17:58:42 -0000, Jim Henderson  
<nos### [at] nospamcom> did spake, saying:

> So I use an RF transmitter instead,
> and that generally works well.

They used to be illegal here. Well to be precise you were using a device  
that sent a signal that your radio could receive wirelessly and thus by  
law were classified as a broadcaster, for which you needed a licence  
costing a few grand. Only got changed at the end of 2006 so as to allow  
low-power broadcasters.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

Post a reply to this message

On 6 Feb 2008 17:43:12 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
 
>> That is dispiriting.
>
>What, that people have to evolve their skills?  That's the way the world 
>is (at least in the so-called "western world") these days.  Adapt or 
>die....It sounds harsh, but it's reality.
>

No I meant that you feel that it is the people that learn how to follow
instructions as apposed to people who learn how to build something that will be
successful. That is dispiriting.

>
>I'm happy to talk either politics or religion.  Maybe that's why I don't 
>have a lot of friends. ;-)

Maybe you weren't brought up in a region that was renowned for violence and
religious bigotry. I was and it is taboo for a very good reason IMO. Although I
understand others feel differently.:)

>I'm having a great debate right now with someone about the relative 
>merits of calling Wicca a religion (he doesn't believe it is, and he's 
>wrong <g>) 


It is not surprising to me that the "Old Religion" is not considered a religion
by some.
and the US armed forces holding weekly services for those who 

>Add to that his statement that belief that science can eventually explain 
>everything is irrational (but belief in an invisible guy in the sky who 
>controls everything isn't?), and you've got a conversation that's ripe 
>for lots of fun shouting. :-)  Needless to say, *I've* been having fun 
>with it.

Ah! Well. Each to their own and rib him mercilessly :)


>Yeah, I understand that you guys are catching the sub-prime mortgage wave 
>that hit us the end of last year.  Don't get bitten.  

Too late [quote http://www.creditaction.org.uk/debt-statistics.html ] Average
household debt in the UK is ~ £8,985 (excluding mortgages). This figure
increases to £20,895 if the average is based on the number of households who
actually have some form of unsecured loan.

>I also understand 

> :  What's the 
>world coming to?

It looks like its going to Hades in a wheelbarrow. :) But then I've been hearing
that all my life. If you extrapolate that back there must have been a Golden Age
:-)

>Yep.  I have to admit that I'm concerned about my retirement fund; 

I've decided to work until I die. :)
But then I like my work. Thinking about it I just like working :)

> I was 
>stupid when I was in my early 20s and closed my 401(k) account so I could 
>make a down payment on a house.  That money would, in the long run, been 
>much better left invested where it was.  I may have another 30-35 years 
>of working time left before I retire, but the operation of compound 
>interest would've served me well with the money I put in when I was 19-22.

If only we could see into the future but don't get me started on religion :)


>It can be a bit depressing at times.  That said, I love the job, though, 
>and right now couldn't see myself doing anything else.  I've always been 
>a bit mercenary when it comes to employment (though there are things I 
>*won't* do), and for the first time in my career, I'm in a place where, 
>if something "better" came along I probably wouldn't take it.  I would 
>look at it, but IME "better" is always a case of appearances, and things 
>are pretty good where I am.  I made a jump once before for "better" and 
>it was (work-wise) a very bad call.  Life-wise, it worked out very well 
>(I met my wife because I moved for the job), but I was miserable for 
>about 2 years, and unemployed for 6 months of that.
>

I'm glad you found something you like and I hope that it lasts for as long as
you want it to.
And as my old granny used to say. "What's for you, won't go past you."


>That's always a good ego-boost, isn't it? 

Yes

> Current job sent me to 
>Barcelona a few years ago (and actually, it was before I was in this job 
>- I was doing some of the job prior to moving back into the department), 
>and this year is looking like I'll get to at least go to Europe (probably 
>Germany) and Australia, possibly also New Zealand and Japan (the latter 
>will be on my own dime to visit my brother - I figure if I'm "in the 
>neighborhood" I should go visit him in Osaka).

The brotherly thing to do, IMO. :)
Keep us posted it sounds like it could be Pov-Con on a world tour. :)

>I really enjoy travel - the actual "getting there" bit isn't a lot of 
>fun, but once I'm there, I like to get out and see things.
>
In a nutshell! But my wife actually likes the travel part. (Weird :)


Regards
	Stephen

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On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 10:54:17 -0000, "Phil Cook"
<phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:

>> What, that people have to evolve their skills?  That's the way the world
>> is (at least in the so-called "western world") these days.  Adapt or
>> die....It sounds harsh, but it's reality.
>
>Except ever since conveyor-belt style systems were introduced the skills  
>gap has gotten wider and more difficult to jump.

I agree. I started out working on the factory floor and now I help to introduce
technology that makes life easier for fewer. :(


Regards
	Stephen

Post a reply to this message

> http://www.teslamotors.com/performance/acceleration_and_torque.php
>
> Gets by with only two gears, and can supposedly be kept in second gear at 
> all times while still performing adequately.

The 0-60 time certainly seems impressive, but I'm concerned about the very 
low top speed (compared to other cars with this sort of 0-60 performance). 
I wonder what the acceleration is like between 70 and 100 mph?

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
> some huge global tax on shipping

Like, $100/barrel oil? :-)


-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     On what day did God create the body thetans?

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>> some huge global tax on shipping
>
> Like, $100/barrel oil? :-)

Make it $10000/barrel for international shipping and you might see some 
changes.  At the moment it costs almost nothing to ship an item round the 
world two or three times.

Post a reply to this message

> http://www.teslamotors.com/performance/acceleration_and_torque.php
>
> Gets by with only two gears, and can supposedly be kept in second gear at 
> all times while still performing adequately.

I have just been playing about with the details from that car in a simulator 
I have here.  Some interesting facts:

1) The motor output torque seems to be limited to exactly the right amount 
at low rpm to provide roughly 1.1g of acceleration in 1st gear.  This is 
probably matched to the tyres on dry tarmac to provide optimal acceleration 
without having to worry about traction control.

2) It really would benefit from having a 3rd gear.  It runs out of steam at 
125mph, but that's not because the air drag equals the engine power, but 
because it's run out of rpm in 2nd gear.  If I give it a 3rd gear with a 
gear ratio of 1.15 it can get up to 145 mph which is a bit more impressive 
for a car with really good low speed performance.  In theory that's the true 
top speed possible with this electric motor and that body shape.

3) I made it have a race with a stock BMW 123d (I just happened to have all 
the details for that car) and it's quite interesting.  Obviously the insane 
low speed torque helps the electric car to get a really good lead from a 
standing start, but after just 7 seconds the BMW is now accelerating faster. 
However it takes until 48 seconds for the BMW to catch up because it's so 
much slower at the start.  After that the BMW just pulls away due to it's 
better high-speed performance, moving roughly 10 metres further away every 
second.

In conclusion, you'll be the quickest on the road under 40 or 50 mph, and 
one of the quickest up to 80 or 90 mph.  Around 100 and above "normal" cars 
will be passing you... :-)

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 10:54:17 +0000, Phil Cook wrote:

>> What, that people have to evolve their skills?  That's the way the
>> world is (at least in the so-called "western world") these days.  Adapt
>> or die....It sounds harsh, but it's reality.
> 
> Except ever since conveyor-belt style systems were introduced the skills
> gap has gotten wider and more difficult to jump.

True, but nobody ever said life was easy, either.  The problem is that 
it's often difficult to distinguish between lazy/unmotivated and when 
something's truly too difficult.

>> I'm happy to talk either politics or religion.  Maybe that's why I
>> don't have a lot of friends. ;-)
> 
> Heh my current favourite topic is how the Conservative Party is
> promising to either bring back or abolish things that they removed or
> introduced last time they were in power. No-one remembers that's the
> trouble.

We've watched a bit of that discussion on PMQT (we get about 30 minutes 
of that a week on CSPAN over here).  Of course, PMQT is entertaining in 
and of itself as you watch people try to avoid answering direct questions 
directly.

>> I'm having a great debate right now with someone about the relative
>> merits of calling Wicca a religion (he doesn't believe it is, and he's
>> wrong <g>) and the US armed forces holding weekly services for those
>> who are observant of that particular faith.  Of course, his definition
>> for "religion" is pretty narrow - you have to believe in a monotheistic
>> god, which generally narrows the field to Christianity, Judaism, and
>> Islam. By his definition, Buddhism and Hinduism don't (and shouldn't)
>> qualify.
> 
> The FSM is monotheistic :-)

LOL, I'll have to remember that one. :-)

>>> How very true. Debt is a major problem here in the UK.
>>
>> Yeah, I understand that you guys are catching the sub-prime mortgage
>> wave that hit us the end of last year.  Don't get bitten.
> 
> Big fuss quite a while ago about banks encouraging people to lie about
> their earnings in order to qualify for a mortgage, ah well I dealt with
> that on my blog some time ago. But Northern Rock is still a touchy
> subject in terms of the sub-prime wave.

Yeah, ain't that the truth.  I need to read your blog entry, somehow it 
didn't show up.  That's on LJ, isn't it?

>>  I also understand
>> that there's been an interesting development in a bank bought by Citi
>> over there - that they're terminating accounts for people with *good*
>> credit because they're not making any money on interest.  Terminating
>> accounts for people who pay their cards off every month:  What's the
>> world coming to?
> 
> Egg. Supposedly terminating accounts of high-risk customers (about 7% of
> their base) i.e. those whose credit ratings have changed for the worse
> since they applied; trouble is some of those terminated customers are
> pointing at their perfect credit ratings. The common factors for these
> people appear to be their status as homeowners and that they pay off the
> balance in full every month. IOW they don't make any money for Egg and
> instead could be persuaded to take out a big fat loan instead using
> their home as collateral.

Egg, that's the one.  We're generally like that as well (got one card 
that's nearly maxxed out at over $10K, due to the need to replace our 
boiler - but at a great interest rate; the others don't get used hardly 
at all).  Yet they keep raising our limits; it's to the point that I'm 
actively afraid to use the cards for fear I'll go crazy and max them all 
out and not be able to make even the minimum payments.  Better they just 
sit in the safe unused.

> Not really new - MBNA added an annual charge to people who didn't use
> their credit card enough and apparently First Direct started charging a
> monthly fee for customers who didn't credit enough money into their
> accounts each month.

Huh, now that I wasn't aware of.

> The option is simple - move companies, there's enough about.

Yep, same approach we use.  It pays to be mercenary about what banks you 
do business with these days.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 11:13:04 +0000, Stephen wrote:

> On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 10:54:17 -0000, "Phil Cook"
> <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
> 
>>> What, that people have to evolve their skills?  That's the way the
>>> world is (at least in the so-called "western world") these days. 
>>> Adapt or die....It sounds harsh, but it's reality.
>>
>>Except ever since conveyor-belt style systems were introduced the skills
>>gap has gotten wider and more difficult to jump.
> 
> I agree. I started out working on the factory floor and now I help to
> introduce technology that makes life easier for fewer. :(

But overall, how's unemployment over there?

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 11:09:31 +0000, Stephen wrote:

> On 6 Feb 2008 17:43:12 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>  
>>> That is dispiriting.
>>
>>What, that people have to evolve their skills?  That's the way the world
>>is (at least in the so-called "western world") these days.  Adapt or
>>die....It sounds harsh, but it's reality.
>>
> No I meant that you feel that it is the people that learn how to follow
> instructions as apposed to people who learn how to build something that
> will be successful. That is dispiriting.

Oh, I see what you mean.  You have to understand, though, that I worked 
in a factory while in college assembling paint sprayers; there were those 
who were content to just follow a set of instructions from 7-4 every day, 
and then leave the factory and live their lives; work was a means to a 
living, rather than being their life.  There's a certain appeal to that.

The danger with just going in and doing a job like that is that you can 
be laid off, and if your skills are specialized (in that you do one set 
of things day in and day out for, say, 15 years), that makes things 
difficult when you try to find something else to do.

>>I'm happy to talk either politics or religion.  Maybe that's why I don't
>>have a lot of friends. ;-)
> 
> Maybe you weren't brought up in a region that was renowned for violence
> and religious bigotry. I was and it is taboo for a very good reason IMO.
> Although I understand others feel differently.:)

I was raised Lutheran; make of that what you will. :-)  I'm *mostly* non-
religious these days, truth be told.

>>I'm having a great debate right now with someone about the relative
>>merits of calling Wicca a religion (he doesn't believe it is, and he's
>>wrong <g>)
> 
> It is not surprising to me that the "Old Religion" is not considered a
> religion by some.

Same here.  Though arguably, Wicca itself is relatively new (founded in 
the '50s), but based on far older traditions.

> and the US armed forces holding weekly services for those who

Who.....?  I think you forgot to finish a sentence here. <g>

>>Add to that his statement that belief that science can eventually
>>explain everything is irrational (but belief in an invisible guy in the
>>sky who controls everything isn't?), and you've got a conversation
>>that's ripe for lots of fun shouting. :-)  Needless to say, *I've* been
>>having fun with it.
> 
> Ah! Well. Each to their own and rib him mercilessly :)

You'd better believe it.  He's now taking to schoolyard tactics and 
really making himself look foolish in the process.

>>Yeah, I understand that you guys are catching the sub-prime mortgage
>>wave that hit us the end of last year.  Don't get bitten.
> 
> Too late [quote http://www.creditaction.org.uk/debt-statistics.html ]
> Average household debt in the UK is ~ £8,985 (excluding mortgages). This
> figure increases to £20,895 if the average is based on the number of
> households who actually have some form of unsecured loan.

Wow, that's really something.  I think we're in (outside of our primary 
mortgage - we have an equity line as well) about $70K, but *most* of that 
is secured debt.  Only about $15K is unsecured credit card debt, and the 
majority of that will be paid off in the next 90 days (tax refund).

>>I also understand
> 
>> :  What's the
>>world coming to?
> 
> It looks like its going to Hades in a wheelbarrow. :) But then I've been
> hearing that all my life. If you extrapolate that back there must have
> been a Golden Age :-)

LOL; why did I just think of "The Pirate Planet"?

>>Yep.  I have to admit that I'm concerned about my retirement fund;
> 
> I've decided to work until I die. :)
> But then I like my work. Thinking about it I just like working :)

Same here; though oddly I'm here instead of doing the stuff I need to 
just at the moment. :-)

>> I was
>>stupid when I was in my early 20s and closed my 401(k) account so I
>>could make a down payment on a house.  That money would, in the long
>>run, been much better left invested where it was.  I may have another
>>30-35 years of working time left before I retire, but the operation of
>>compound interest would've served me well with the money I put in when I
>>was 19-22.
> 
> If only we could see into the future but don't get me started on
> religion :)

LOL, yes, that's certainly true.  Hindsight really is 20/20.

>>It can be a bit depressing at times.  That said, I love the job, though,
>>and right now couldn't see myself doing anything else.  I've always been
>>a bit mercenary when it comes to employment (though there are things I
>>*won't* do), and for the first time in my career, I'm in a place where,
>>if something "better" came along I probably wouldn't take it.  I would
>>look at it, but IME "better" is always a case of appearances, and things
>>are pretty good where I am.  I made a jump once before for "better" and
>>it was (work-wise) a very bad call.  Life-wise, it worked out very well
>>(I met my wife because I moved for the job), but I was miserable for
>>about 2 years, and unemployed for 6 months of that.
>>
>>
> I'm glad you found something you like and I hope that it lasts for as
> long as you want it to.

Same here.  My dad and I had a chat not long before he passed away a 
couple years ago; he confided in me that if he had it to do again, he 
would have been less loyal to his employer (not to say "disloyal" by any 
means - he certainly was honourable and would have been regardless) 
because it's not a reciprocated loyalty.  He worked for the same company 
for decades only to have them pull the rug out from under the retirees.  
Fortunately, dad kept *everything* about post-retirement benefits, so 
they did get a payout in the end, but not without a big legal battle.

> And as my old granny used to say. "What's for you, won't go past you."

Your granny sounds like a wise woman.

>> Current job sent me to
>>Barcelona a few years ago (and actually, it was before I was in this job
>>- I was doing some of the job prior to moving back into the department),
>>and this year is looking like I'll get to at least go to Europe
>>(probably Germany) and Australia, possibly also New Zealand and Japan
>>(the latter will be on my own dime to visit my brother - I figure if I'm
>>"in the neighborhood" I should go visit him in Osaka).
> 
> The brotherly thing to do, IMO. :)
> Keep us posted it sounds like it could be Pov-Con on a world tour. :)

I will - it's always fun to meet online friends IRL.  Most of my longtime 
online friends are here next month, and I have a get-together at my place 
for them.  Wouldn't have it any other way. :-)

>>I really enjoy travel - the actual "getting there" bit isn't a lot of
>>fun, but once I'm there, I like to get out and see things.
>>
> In a nutshell! But my wife actually likes the travel part. (Weird :)

Well, just remember, we're all unique, just like everyone else. ;-)

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 11:04:02 +0000, Phil Cook wrote:

> And lo on Wed, 06 Feb 2008 17:58:42 -0000, Jim Henderson
> <nos### [at] nospamcom> did spake, saying:
> 
>> So I use an RF transmitter instead,
>> and that generally works well.
> 
> They used to be illegal here. Well to be precise you were using a device
> that sent a signal that your radio could receive wirelessly and thus by
> law were classified as a broadcaster, for which you needed a licence
> costing a few grand. Only got changed at the end of 2006 so as to allow
> low-power broadcasters.

Yes, over here anything over a couple watts of transmit power (IIRC) 
requires a license.  I actually have a radio license (amateur radio, 
novice class license), but it covers different frequency ranges than 
something like this would use.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On 8 Feb 2008 15:50:30 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:

>
>But overall, how's over there?

Not too bad

January 16 2008 - The unemployment rate remained at 5.3% - down 0.1% over the
quarter and down 0.1% on last year. 29.36 million people were in work in the
period September to November according to the labour force survey (LFS). This is
the highest on record, up by 175,000 on the quarter, and up by 263,000 on the
last year. 


Regards
	Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On 8 Feb 2008 16:01:19 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:

>Oh, I see what you mean.  You have to understand, though, that I worked 
>in a factory while in college assembling paint sprayers; there were those 
>who were content to just follow a set of instructions from 7-4 every day, 
>and then leave the factory and live their lives; work was a means to a 
>living, rather than being their life.  There's a certain appeal to that.

There is at that. :)

>The danger with just going in and doing a job like that is that you can 
>be laid off, and if your skills are specialized (in that you do one set 
>of things day in and day out for, say, 15 years), that makes things 
>difficult when you try to find something else to do.

Very true

>>>I'm happy to talk either politics or religion.  Maybe that's why I don't
>>>have a lot of friends. ;-)
>> 
>> Maybe you weren't brought up in a region that was renowned for violence
>> and religious bigotry. I was and it is taboo for a very good reason IMO.
>> Although I understand others feel differently.:)
>
>I was raised Lutheran; make of that what you will. :-)  I'm *mostly* non-
>religious these days, truth be told.

I don't make much of it actually :) mainly because like you I am not religious. 

>>>I'm having a great debate right now with someone about the relative
>>>merits of calling Wicca a religion (he doesn't believe it is, and he's
>>>wrong <g>)
>> 
>> It is not surprising to me that the "Old Religion" is not considered a
>> religion by some.
>
>Same here.  Though arguably, Wicca itself is relatively new (founded in 
>the '50s), but based on far older traditions.

made a goode movie - The Wicca man :)

>> and the US armed forces holding weekly services for those who
>
>Who.....?  I think you forgot to finish a sentence here. <g>

Oops! copy and paste error. Your text :)

>You'd better believe it.  He's now taking to schoolyard tactics and 
>really making himself look foolish in the process.

You are winning :)


>Wow, that's really something.  I think we're in (outside of our primary 
>mortgage - we have an equity line as well) about $70K, but *most* of that 
>is secured debt.  Only about $15K is unsecured credit card debt, and the 
>majority of that will be paid off in the next 90 days (tax refund).

Just over 10 years ago I got made redundant with a good package. Since then I've
not had any major debts. 


>> It looks like its going to Hades in a wheelbarrow. :) But then I've been
>> hearing that all my life. If you extrapolate that back there must have
>> been a Golden Age :-)
>
>LOL; why did I just think of "The Pirate Planet"?

I don't know. The idea goes back before Dr Who.

>>>Yep.  I have to admit that I'm concerned about my retirement fund;
>> 
>> I've decided to work until I die. :)
>> But then I like my work. Thinking about it I just like working :)
>
>Same here; though oddly I'm here instead of doing the stuff I need to 
>just at the moment. :-)

LOL 


>Same here.  My dad and I had a chat not long before he passed away a 
>couple years ago; he confided in me that if he had it to do again, he 
>would have been less loyal to his employer (not to say "disloyal" by any 
>means - he certainly was honourable and would have been regardless) 
>because it's not a reciprocated loyalty.  He worked for the same company 
>for decades only to have them pull the rug out from under the retirees.  
>Fortunately, dad kept *everything* about post-retirement benefits, so 
>they did get a payout in the end, but not without a big legal battle.

Don't you love our lords and masters :)

>> And as my old granny used to say. "What's for you, won't go past you."
>
>Your granny sounds like a wise woman.

Well that is an attitude designed to keep people in their places, I feel.

 
>> The brotherly thing to do, IMO. :)
>> Keep us posted it sounds like it could be Pov-Con on a world tour. :)
>
>I will - it's always fun to meet online friends IRL.  Most of my longtime 
>online friends are here next month, and I have a get-together at my place 
>for them.  Wouldn't have it any other way. :-)
>

I think that I've only met one. That was Tom Melly who has drifted away from
Pov.


>Well, just remember, we're all unique, just like everyone else. ;-)
>

Unless you're a clone :)

Regards
	Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:34:09 +0000, Stephen wrote:

> Not too bad
> 
> January 16 2008 - The unemployment rate remained at 5.3% - down 0.1%
> over the quarter and down 0.1% on last year. 29.36 million people were
> in work in the period September to November according to the labour
> force survey (LFS). This is the highest on record, up by 175,000 on the
> quarter, and up by 263,000 on the last year.

More or less that demonstrates my point; at the same time, I know they 
play games with the numbers to make them look better than they really 
are, but that's about what I recalled hearing cited on PMQT a couple 
weeks ago. :-)

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:53:43 +0000, Stephen wrote:

> On 8 Feb 2008 16:01:19 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> 
>>Oh, I see what you mean.  You have to understand, though, that I worked
>>in a factory while in college assembling paint sprayers; there were
>>those who were content to just follow a set of instructions from 7-4
>>every day, and then leave the factory and live their lives; work was a
>>means to a living, rather than being their life.  There's a certain
>>appeal to that.
> 
> There is at that. :)

Uh huh.  I think there's a scale on which people define themselves; at 
one end is 100% based on your work achievements, and the other end is 
100% based on personal life.  Most people are somewhere in between.

>>The danger with just going in and doing a job like that is that you can
>>be laid off, and if your skills are specialized (in that you do one set
>>of things day in and day out for, say, 15 years), that makes things
>>difficult when you try to find something else to do.
> 
> Very true

It's a balancing act; some get it right, some don't.  The challenge is 
finding the right balance for the individual, because it's different for 
everyone.

>>>>I'm happy to talk either politics or religion.  Maybe that's why I
>>>>don't have a lot of friends. ;-)
>>> 
>>> Maybe you weren't brought up in a region that was renowned for
>>> violence and religious bigotry. I was and it is taboo for a very good
>>> reason IMO. Although I understand others feel differently.:)
>>
>>I was raised Lutheran; make of that what you will. :-)  I'm *mostly*
>>non- religious these days, truth be told.
> 
> I don't make much of it actually :) mainly because like you I am not
> religious.

Same here.  Well, on the first bit; obviously on the second bit. :-)

>>>>I'm having a great debate right now with someone about the relative
>>>>merits of calling Wicca a religion (he doesn't believe it is, and he's
>>>>wrong <g>)
>>> 
>>> It is not surprising to me that the "Old Religion" is not considered a
>>> religion by some.
>>
>>Same here.  Though arguably, Wicca itself is relatively new (founded in
>>the '50s), but based on far older traditions.
>>
> made a goode movie - The Wicca man :)

The Wicker Man, you mean. ;-)

>>> and the US armed forces holding weekly services for those who
>>
>>Who.....?  I think you forgot to finish a sentence here. <g>
> 
> Oops! copy and paste error. Your text :)

Ah.

>>You'd better believe it.  He's now taking to schoolyard tactics and
>>really making himself look foolish in the process.
> 
> You are winning :)

But of course. :-)

>>Wow, that's really something.  I think we're in (outside of our primary
>>mortgage - we have an equity line as well) about $70K, but *most* of
>>that is secured debt.  Only about $15K is unsecured credit card debt,
>>and the majority of that will be paid off in the next 90 days (tax
>>refund).
> 
> Just over 10 years ago I got made redundant with a good package. Since
> then I've not had any major debts.

That's one thing that I wish had happened when I got let go some 15 years 
ago from the job I was working; but I was so angry, I didn't even think 
about asking for severance.  Had only been there 18 mos, though.

>>> It looks like its going to Hades in a wheelbarrow. :) But then I've
>>> been hearing that all my life. If you extrapolate that back there must
>>> have been a Golden Age :-)
>>
>>LOL; why did I just think of "The Pirate Planet"?
> 
> I don't know. The idea goes back before Dr Who.

Well, yeah, but I think that might be the first time I ran across that 
particular theme.

>>>>Yep.  I have to admit that I'm concerned about my retirement fund;
>>> 
>>> I've decided to work until I die. :)
>>> But then I like my work. Thinking about it I just like working :)
>>
>>Same here; though oddly I'm here instead of doing the stuff I need to
>>just at the moment. :-)
> 
> LOL

In some ways it is kinda an odd job, because the hours are "fixed" but 
they're not fixed, if you know what I mean.

>>Same here.  My dad and I had a chat not long before he passed away a
>>couple years ago; he confided in me that if he had it to do again, he
>>would have been less loyal to his employer (not to say "disloyal" by any
>>means - he certainly was honourable and would have been regardless)
>>because it's not a reciprocated loyalty.  He worked for the same company
>>for decades only to have them pull the rug out from under the retirees.
>>Fortunately, dad kept *everything* about post-retirement benefits, so
>>they did get a payout in the end, but not without a big legal battle.
> 
> Don't you love our lords and masters :)

Yeah, right up to the point they decide they don't need you.

>>> And as my old granny used to say. "What's for you, won't go past you."
>>
>>Your granny sounds like a wise woman.
> 
> Well that is an attitude designed to keep people in their places, I
> feel.

Well, I don't know about that, at least not my reading from what you 
wrote.  It sounds more a sort of fatalistic approach (not unlike my own 
approach to life at that).  Whatever happens happens sort of thing.

>>> The brotherly thing to do, IMO. :)
>>> Keep us posted it sounds like it could be Pov-Con on a world tour. :)
>>
>>I will - it's always fun to meet online friends IRL.  Most of my
>>longtime online friends are here next month, and I have a get-together
>>at my place for them.  Wouldn't have it any other way. :-)
>>
>>
> I think that I've only met one. That was Tom Melly who has drifted away
> from Pov.

I used to live not far from Dan Farmer, but sadly never did get an 
opportunity to meet him IRL.  

>>Well, just remember, we're all unique, just like everyone else. ;-)
>>
>>
> Unless you're a clone :)

Ah, but at the point that the clone becomes sentient, then the clone's 
experiences are going to be different from yours.  Think Will & Thomas 
Riker. :-)

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On 11 Feb 2008 00:38:21 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:

>On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:34:09 +0000, Stephen wrote:
>
>> Not too bad
>> 
>> January 16 2008 - The unemployment rate remained at 5.3% - down 0.1%
>> over the quarter and down 0.1% on last year. 29.36 million people were
>> in work in the period September to November according to the labour
>> force survey (LFS). This is the highest on record, up by 175,000 on the
>> quarter, and up by 263,000 on the last year.
>
>More or less that demonstrates my point; at the same time, I know they 
>play games with the numbers to make them look better than they really 
>are, but that's about what I recalled hearing cited on PMQT a couple 
>weeks ago. :-)
>
>Jim

It might if you can believe the "porkies" that all politicians are born
sprouting :)
Anyway I wasn't arguing (I think :)

Regards
	Stephen

Post a reply to this message

And lo on Fri, 08 Feb 2008 20:49:57 -0000, Jim Henderson  
<nos### [at] nospamcom> did spake, saying:

> On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 10:54:17 +0000, Phil Cook wrote:
>
>>> What, that people have to evolve their skills?  That's the way the
>>> world is (at least in the so-called "western world") these days.  Adapt
>>> or die....It sounds harsh, but it's reality.
>>
>> Except ever since conveyor-belt style systems were introduced the skills
>> gap has gotten wider and more difficult to jump.
>
> True, but nobody ever said life was easy, either.  The problem is that
> it's often difficult to distinguish between lazy/unmotivated and when
> something's truly too difficult.

True, some people think that because they've just one type of job they  
*deserve* exactly the same type of job regardless of availabilty and  
reject anything else. I may have mentioned my father who went from TV  
repairman to shop manager to refuse collector to warehouse manager.

>>> I'm happy to talk either politics or religion.  Maybe that's why I
>>> don't have a lot of friends. ;-)
>>
>> Heh my current favourite topic is how the Conservative Party is
>> promising to either bring back or abolish things that they removed or
>> introduced last time they were in power. No-one remembers that's the
>> trouble.
>
> We've watched a bit of that discussion on PMQT (we get about 30 minutes
> of that a week on CSPAN over here).  Of course, PMQT is entertaining in
> and of itself as you watch people try to avoid answering direct questions
> directly.

for people read politicians :-)

>>>> How very true. Debt is a major problem here in the UK.
>>>
>>> Yeah, I understand that you guys are catching the sub-prime mortgage
>>> wave that hit us the end of last year.  Don't get bitten.
>>
>> Big fuss quite a while ago about banks encouraging people to lie about
>> their earnings in order to qualify for a mortgage, ah well I dealt with
>> that on my blog some time ago. But Northern Rock is still a touchy
>> subject in terms of the sub-prime wave.
>
> Yeah, ain't that the truth.  I need to read your blog entry, somehow it
> didn't show up.  That's on LJ, isn't it?

I did sign up for LJ to read your entries my actual blog's on  
http://flipc.blogspot.com

>>>  I also understand
>>> that there's been an interesting development in a bank bought by Citi
>>> over there - that they're terminating accounts for people with *good*
>>> credit because they're not making any money on interest.  Terminating
>>> accounts for people who pay their cards off every month:  What's the
>>> world coming to?
>>
>> Egg. Supposedly terminating accounts of high-risk customers (about 7% of
>> their base) i.e. those whose credit ratings have changed for the worse
>> since they applied; trouble is some of those terminated customers are
>> pointing at their perfect credit ratings. The common factors for these
>> people appear to be their status as homeowners and that they pay off the
>> balance in full every month. IOW they don't make any money for Egg and
>> instead could be persuaded to take out a big fat loan instead using
>> their home as collateral.
>
> Egg, that's the one.  We're generally like that as well (got one card
> that's nearly maxxed out at over $10K, due to the need to replace our
> boiler - but at a great interest rate; the others don't get used hardly
> at all).  Yet they keep raising our limits; it's to the point that I'm
> actively afraid to use the cards for fear I'll go crazy and max them all
> out and not be able to make even the minimum payments.  Better they just
> sit in the safe unused.

They keep pestering me to borrow money. My parents find this amusing when  
I mention it, apparently back in ye olden days you pratically had to beg  
and sign your contract in blood to get a loan; now it's - "please borrow  
money off us"

>> Not really new - MBNA added an annual charge to people who didn't use
>> their credit card enough and apparently First Direct started charging a
>> monthly fee for customers who didn't credit enough money into their
>> accounts each month.
>
> Huh, now that I wasn't aware of.
>
>> The option is simple - move companies, there's enough about.
>
> Yep, same approach we use.  It pays to be mercenary about what banks you
> do business with these days.

It's not as if it's difficult to switch these days.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

Post a reply to this message

On 11 Feb 2008 00:46:49 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:


>Uh huh.  I think there's a scale on which people define themselves; at 
>one end is 100% based on your work achievements, and the other end is 
>100% based on personal life.  Most people are somewhere in between.

That makes sense.



>> made a goode movie - The Wicca man :)
>
>The Wicker Man, you mean. ;-)
>

It sounds the same to me :)


>> 
>> You are winning :)
>
>But of course. :-)
>

Roll up! Roll up! See the massacre! 
Tickets, a groat children a bawbee.


>In some ways it is kinda an odd job, because the hours are "fixed" but 
>they're not fixed, if you know what I mean.
>

Mine too, remember "you can't do enough for a good company"


>> Don't you love our lords and masters :)
>
>Yeah, right up to the point they decide they don't need you.
>
Ain't that true. N.B. Andrew :)

>>>> And as my old granny used to say. "What's for you, won't go past you."
>>>
>>>Your granny sounds like a wise woman.
>> 
>> Well that is an attitude designed to keep people in their places, I
>> feel.
>
>Well, I don't know about that, at least not my reading from what you 
>wrote.  It sounds more a sort of fatalistic approach (not unlike my own 
>approach to life at that).  Whatever happens happens sort of thing.
>

She did mean it kindly but she was born a hundred years ago. People's attitudes
were different then. I believe that you make your own luck. Again N.B. Andrew :)


>I used to live not far from Dan Farmer, but sadly never did get an 
>opportunity to meet him IRL.  
>

Shame.

>>>Well, just remember, we're all unique, just like everyone else. ;-)
>>>
>>>
>> Unless you're a clone :)
>
>Ah, but at the point that the clone becomes sentient, then the clone's 
>experiences are going to be different from yours.  Think Will & Thomas 
>Riker. :-)
>

If you insist :)

Regards
	Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 08:46:56 +0000, Stephen wrote:

> It might if you can believe the "porkies" that all politicians are born
> sprouting

True....

> Anyway I wasn't arguing (I think

<g>

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 09:03:11 +0000, Phil Cook wrote:

>> True, but nobody ever said life was easy, either.  The problem is that
>> it's often difficult to distinguish between lazy/unmotivated and when
>> something's truly too difficult.
> 
> True, some people think that because they've just one type of job they
> *deserve* exactly the same type of job regardless of availabilty and
> reject anything else. I may have mentioned my father who went from TV
> repairman to shop manager to refuse collector to warehouse manager.

Yep.  I always have figured that I deserve the type of job I am willing 
to work for.  I'm not entitled to any kind of job.

That's one of the problems in society these days - a lot of people feel 
they are entitled to things they need to be working for.

>> We've watched a bit of that discussion on PMQT (we get about 30 minutes
>> of that a week on CSPAN over here).  Of course, PMQT is entertaining in
>> and of itself as you watch people try to avoid answering direct
>> questions directly.
> 
> for people read politicians :-)

Well, yeah, of course. ;-)

>> Yeah, ain't that the truth.  I need to read your blog entry, somehow it
>> didn't show up.  That's on LJ, isn't it?
> 
> I did sign up for LJ to read your entries my actual blog's on
> http://flipc.blogspot.com

Ah, noted. :-)

>> Egg, that's the one.  We're generally like that as well (got one card
>> that's nearly maxxed out at over $10K, due to the need to replace our
>> boiler - but at a great interest rate; the others don't get used hardly
>> at all).  Yet they keep raising our limits; it's to the point that I'm
>> actively afraid to use the cards for fear I'll go crazy and max them
>> all out and not be able to make even the minimum payments.  Better they
>> just sit in the safe unused.
> 
> They keep pestering me to borrow money. My parents find this amusing
> when I mention it, apparently back in ye olden days you pratically had
> to beg and sign your contract in blood to get a loan; now it's - "please
> borrow money off us"

Yeah; at the same time that I'm hearing about Citi dropping people's 
credit limits, they've bumped mine up yet again.  They are *really* going 
to be surprised when the tax refund shows up in a couple of weeks and we 
pay most of it off.

>> Yep, same approach we use.  It pays to be mercenary about what banks
>> you do business with these days.
> 
> It's not as if it's difficult to switch these days.

Ain't that the truth.  My mom's moving (tomorrow if everything goes 
well); she's been with the same bank for some 40 years now and said she 
has no plans to switch (even though the bank she was originally with got 
bought by another, which got bought by yet another).  She couldn't even 
remember the name of the original bank (and I can't now, though I did 
when I was talking with her last week - Ah, yes, "First Bank"); I 
suggested that at the least, she might pick a branch closer to her new 
place, and she's going to think about it.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 20:10:27 +0000, Stephen wrote:

> On 11 Feb 2008 00:46:49 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Uh huh.  I think there's a scale on which people define themselves; at
>>one end is 100% based on your work achievements, and the other end is
>>100% based on personal life.  Most people are somewhere in between.
> 
> That makes sense.

That's what I thought. :-)

>>> made a goode movie - The Wicca man :)
>>
>>The Wicker Man, you mean. ;-)
>>
>>
> It sounds the same to me :)

:-P

>>> You are winning :)
>>
>>But of course. :-)
>>
> Roll up! Roll up! See the massacre!
> Tickets, a groat children a bawbee.

Maybe I could start a new religion with it. ;-)

>>In some ways it is kinda an odd job, because the hours are "fixed" but
>>they're not fixed, if you know what I mean.
>>
> Mine too, remember "you can't do enough for a good company"

Something like that, yeah. :-)  Admittedly, I do think it's a good 
company, and they certainly do treat the employees well.  Excellent 
benefits, for a start.

>>> Don't you love our lords and masters :)
>>
>>Yeah, right up to the point they decide they don't need you.
>>
> Ain't that true. N.B. Andrew :)

Yup, I was thinking that as well.

>>> Well that is an attitude designed to keep people in their places, I
>>> feel.
>>
>>Well, I don't know about that, at least not my reading from what you
>>wrote.  It sounds more a sort of fatalistic approach (not unlike my own
>>approach to life at that).  Whatever happens happens sort of thing.
>>
> She did mean it kindly but she was born a hundred years ago. People's
> attitudes were different then. I believe that you make your own luck.
> Again N.B. Andrew :)

Oh, yes, I agree.  I remember a quote I saw somewhere that essentially 
said something like "I've had to work very hard to be as lucky as I've 
been".

>>I used to live not far from Dan Farmer, but sadly never did get an
>>opportunity to meet him IRL.
>>
> Shame.

Yeah, it was one of those "I'll get around to it someday" things.

>>>>Well, just remember, we're all unique, just like everyone else. ;-)
>>>>
>>> Unless you're a clone :)
>>
>>Ah, but at the point that the clone becomes sentient, then the clone's
>>experiences are going to be different from yours.  Think Will & Thomas
>>Riker. :-)
>>
> If you insist :)

Well, that's what my clone said to consider.... ;)

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Phil Cook wrote:
> now it's - "please borrow money off us"

... which makes sense, when you realize that money is created by you 
borrowing it.  If everyone actually payed back everything they owed, 
there would be no money left.  Of course, that's mathematically 
impossible, since people necessarily owe more than they can ever own.

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     On what day did God create the body thetans?

Post a reply to this message

Darren New wrote:
> Phil Cook wrote:
>> now it's - "please borrow money off us"
> 
> .... which makes sense, when you realize that money is created by you 
> borrowing it. 

... Nowadays, that is.  The banks used to actually need to have money 
before they could loan it.  Now the act of loaning the money makes the 
bank have more rather than less.

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     On what day did God create the body thetans?

Post a reply to this message

On 11 Feb 2008 19:32:24 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:

>
>Oh, yes, I agree.  I remember a quote I saw somewhere that essentially 
>said something like "I've had to work very hard to be as lucky as I've 
>been".

I believe Arnold Palmer (the golfer) also said. "The more I practice the luckier
I get". Well get me, a sports quote, bejasus.


>>>I used to live not far from Dan Farmer, but sadly never did get an
>>>opportunity to meet him IRL.
>>>
>> Shame.
>
>Yeah, it was one of those "I'll get around to it someday" things.

Yes it is the things that you've not done, that you regret. 


Regards
	Stephen

Post a reply to this message

And lo on Tue, 12 Feb 2008 01:42:29 -0000, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom>  
did spake, saying:

> Phil Cook wrote:
>> now it's - "please borrow money off us"
>
> ... which makes sense, when you realize that money is created by you  
> borrowing it.  If everyone actually payed back everything they owed,  
> there would be no money left.  Of course, that's mathematically  
> impossible, since people necessarily owe more than they can ever own.

Which is why I'm always amused when I read the headlines deploring the  
fact that the population is in debt to the amount of £Xbn, that's how our  
econmy works now.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

Post a reply to this message

And lo on Tue, 12 Feb 2008 00:21:31 -0000, Jim Henderson  
<nos### [at] nospamcom> did spake, saying:

> On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 09:03:11 +0000, Phil Cook wrote:
>
>>> True, but nobody ever said life was easy, either.  The problem is that
>>> it's often difficult to distinguish between lazy/unmotivated and when
>>> something's truly too difficult.
>>
>> True, some people think that because they've just one type of job they
>> *deserve* exactly the same type of job regardless of availabilty and
>> reject anything else. I may have mentioned my father who went from TV
>> repairman to shop manager to refuse collector to warehouse manager.
>
> Yep.  I always have figured that I deserve the type of job I am willing
> to work for.  I'm not entitled to any kind of job.

Course you are; it's against your human rights not to be offered the job  
you deserve :-P

> That's one of the problems in society these days - a lot of people feel
> they are entitled to things they need to be working for.

To an extent I blame the cult of celebrity, anyone can become a 'star'  
today so why bother to work hard when tomorrow some bigshot producer may  
spot your music video on youtube? Combine that with a social security  
system that can work out to be paying you more then a full-time job and  
then mix-in the confusion between want and need; oh it's all good fun.

>>> Egg, that's the one.  We're generally like that as well (got one card
>>> that's nearly maxxed out at over $10K, due to the need to replace our
>>> boiler - but at a great interest rate; the others don't get used hardly
>>> at all).  Yet they keep raising our limits; it's to the point that I'm
>>> actively afraid to use the cards for fear I'll go crazy and max them
>>> all out and not be able to make even the minimum payments.  Better they
>>> just sit in the safe unused.
>>
>> They keep pestering me to borrow money. My parents find this amusing
>> when I mention it, apparently back in ye olden days you pratically had
>> to beg and sign your contract in blood to get a loan; now it's - "please
>> borrow money off us"
>
> Yeah; at the same time that I'm hearing about Citi dropping people's
> credit limits, they've bumped mine up yet again.  They are *really* going
> to be surprised when the tax refund shows up in a couple of weeks and we
> pay most of it off.

'Thank you for paying off all the money you owe us. As a reward we're  
dropping your credit limit so you can't borrow so much from us'

>>> Yep, same approach we use.  It pays to be mercenary about what banks
>>> you do business with these days.
>>
>> It's not as if it's difficult to switch these days.
>
> Ain't that the truth.  My mom's moving (tomorrow if everything goes
> well); she's been with the same bank for some 40 years now and said she
> has no plans to switch (even though the bank she was originally with got
> bought by another, which got bought by yet another).  She couldn't even
> remember the name of the original bank (and I can't now, though I did
> when I was talking with her last week - Ah, yes, "First Bank"); I
> suggested that at the least, she might pick a branch closer to her new
> place, and she's going to think about it.

Sod love, inertia's the most powerful human motivation :-)

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 08:30:41 +0000, Stephen wrote:

> On 11 Feb 2008 19:32:24 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Oh, yes, I agree.  I remember a quote I saw somewhere that essentially
>>said something like "I've had to work very hard to be as lucky as I've
>>been".
> 
> I believe Arnold Palmer (the golfer) also said. "The more I practice the
> luckier I get". Well get me, a sports quote, bejasus.

Maybe that's the one I am thinking of, though I thought it tied to work.  
Probably in a book we've got in the house. :-)

>>>>I used to live not far from Dan Farmer, but sadly never did get an
>>>>opportunity to meet him IRL.
>>>>
>>> Shame.
>>
>>Yeah, it was one of those "I'll get around to it someday" things.
> 
> Yes it is the things that you've not done, that you regret.

And only occasionally the things you have done. ;-)

Good friend of mine moved from Austin TX to Colorado Springs, CO - so he 
could be around the mountains because he liked hiking in the mountains.

After he moved, he decided to move back.  Why?  Well, part of the reason 
was because he never went hiking anymore - because the mountains were 
right there.

(Of course, he's back in CO Springs now, because it's near where his kids 
go to school and he goes to all their home basketball games - it probably 
helps that he's very successfully self-employed)

Jim

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On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:30:18 +0000, Phil Cook wrote:

>> Yep.  I always have figured that I deserve the type of job I am willing
>> to work for.  I'm not entitled to any kind of job.
> 
> Course you are; it's against your human rights not to be offered the job
> you deserve :-P

See, that's the part I keep forgetting.  Guess I'll have to go on being 
successful in my own right. ;-)

>> That's one of the problems in society these days - a lot of people feel
>> they are entitled to things they need to be working for.
> 
> To an extent I blame the cult of celebrity, anyone can become a 'star'
> today so why bother to work hard when tomorrow some bigshot producer may
> spot your music video on youtube? Combine that with a social security
> system that can work out to be paying you more then a full-time job and
> then mix-in the confusion between want and need; oh it's all good fun.

True, I know lots of people who do something "on the side" - have done so 
myself once or twice.  Current employer prohibits it if it has anything 
to do with work (which for me is a lot of the things I do "for fun"), so 
I can't for a lot of things that I otherwise would, but I'm well-enough 
compensated that I don't need to do the work "on the side".

>> Yeah; at the same time that I'm hearing about Citi dropping people's
>> credit limits, they've bumped mine up yet again.  They are *really*
>> going to be surprised when the tax refund shows up in a couple of weeks
>> and we pay most of it off.
> 
> 'Thank you for paying off all the money you owe us. As a reward we're
> dropping your credit limit so you can't borrow so much from us'

I'm half expecting that to happen.  Doesn't really bother me, though 
after paying the vet bills today, it might a bit more.

>> did when I was talking with her last week - Ah, yes, "First Bank"); I
>> suggested that at the least, she might pick a branch closer to her new
>> place, and she's going to think about it.
> 
> Sod love, inertia's the most powerful human motivation :-)

I think it's ambivalence. :-)

Jim

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On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:18:34 +0000, Phil Cook wrote:

> And lo on Tue, 12 Feb 2008 01:42:29 -0000, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom>
> did spake, saying:
> 
>> Phil Cook wrote:
>>> now it's - "please borrow money off us"
>>
>> ... which makes sense, when you realize that money is created by you
>> borrowing it.  If everyone actually payed back everything they owed,
>> there would be no money left.  Of course, that's mathematically
>> impossible, since people necessarily owe more than they can ever own.
> 
> Which is why I'm always amused when I read the headlines deploring the
> fact that the population is in debt to the amount of £Xbn, that's how
> our econmy works now.

Thing that gets me is that what's good for individuals is bad for 
business (and vice versa).  For example, one company I worked for was 
*proud* of being classified as a "late payer".  On the personal finance 
side, that just doesn't work - it kills your credit rating.

Jim

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On 12 Feb 2008 17:17:29 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:

>
>(Of course, he's back in CO Springs now, because it's near where his kids 
>go to school and he goes to all their home basketball games - it probably 
>helps that he's very successfully self-employed)

That reminds me. My wife, who reads a lot of contemporary American fiction wants
to know. Why and when did sport become so popular in America? By that I mean
children's sport, going to watch your kids play baseball etc. There is little
mention of it in earlier fiction. Little House on the Prairie hardly mentions
sport at all. Not it seams that you are a bad parent if you don't join in. Of
course this could be untrue. I remember when I was a kid very few parents and no
women would go to watch a school soccer match. 


Regards
	Stephen

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On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:31:52 +0000, Stephen wrote:

> On 12 Feb 2008 17:17:29 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> 
> 
>>(Of course, he's back in CO Springs now, because it's near where his
>>kids go to school and he goes to all their home basketball games - it
>>probably helps that he's very successfully self-employed)
> 
> That reminds me. My wife, who reads a lot of contemporary American
> fiction wants to know. Why and when did sport become so popular in
> America? By that I mean children's sport, going to watch your kids play
> baseball etc. There is little mention of it in earlier fiction. Little
> House on the Prairie hardly mentions sport at all. Not it seams that you
> are a bad parent if you don't join in. Of course this could be untrue. I
> remember when I was a kid very few parents and no women would go to
> watch a school soccer match.

I'm not really sure - I used to play softball, but I don't remember many 
parents being there.  I'd have to say the popularity grew a lot in the 
last 20 years or so based on my experiences.

I think part of it is frustration with professional sports; I know I hate 
going to, say, a pro baseball game these days.  The players just play so 
well there's no unpredictability in the game play-by-play.

Minor league games are a blast, though.  I assume it's similar for junior 
leagues.

Jim

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And lo on Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:21:35 -0000, Jim Henderson  
<nos### [at] nospamcom> did spake, saying:

> On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:30:18 +0000, Phil Cook wrote:
>
>> Sod love, inertia's the most powerful human motivation :-)
>
> I think it's ambivalence. :-)

Meh, I don't know :-)

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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On 12 Feb 2008 17:49:58 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:

>I'm not really sure - I used to play softball, but I don't remember many 
>parents being there.  I'd have to say the popularity grew a lot in the 
>last 20 years or so based on my experiences.
>
>I think part of it is frustration with professional sports; I know I hate 
>going to, say, a pro baseball game these days.  The players just play so 
>well there's no unpredictability in the game play-by-play.
>
>Minor league games are a blast, though.  I assume it's similar for junior 
>leagues.

Thanks for the insight. I'm not a sports fan so it seems strange to me and my
wife wants to point out that she reads adult books too :)

Regards
	Stephen

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And lo on Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:22:42 -0000, Jim Henderson  
<nos### [at] nospamcom> did spake, saying:

> On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:18:34 +0000, Phil Cook wrote:
>
>> And lo on Tue, 12 Feb 2008 01:42:29 -0000, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom>
>> did spake, saying:
>>
>>> Phil Cook wrote:
>>>> now it's - "please borrow money off us"
>>>
>>> ... which makes sense, when you realize that money is created by you
>>> borrowing it.  If everyone actually payed back everything they owed,
>>> there would be no money left.  Of course, that's mathematically
>>> impossible, since people necessarily owe more than they can ever own.
>>
>> Which is why I'm always amused when I read the headlines deploring the
>> fact that the population is in debt to the amount of £Xbn, that's how
>> our econmy works now.
>
> Thing that gets me is that what's good for individuals is bad for
> business (and vice versa).  For example, one company I worked for was
> *proud* of being classified as a "late payer".  On the personal finance
> side, that just doesn't work - it kills your credit rating.

'Hey we've just fired everyone and our share price has increased' Don't  
see many politicial policies trying to split up families now do you :-)

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

Post a reply to this message

On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:10:55 +0000, Stephen wrote:

> On 12 Feb 2008 17:49:58 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> 
>>I'm not really sure - I used to play softball, but I don't remember many
>>parents being there.  I'd have to say the popularity grew a lot in the
>>last 20 years or so based on my experiences.
>>
>>I think part of it is frustration with professional sports; I know I
>>hate going to, say, a pro baseball game these days.  The players just
>>play so well there's no unpredictability in the game play-by-play.
>>
>>Minor league games are a blast, though.  I assume it's similar for
>>junior leagues.
> 
> Thanks for the insight. I'm not a sports fan so it seems strange to me
> and my wife wants to point out that she reads adult books too :)

I'm not much of a sports fan myself; I like the occasional baseball game 
and occasionally watch football (not US football, real football - what we 
Americans call "Soccer") when the mood strikes us.

Can't remember the last basketball or hockey game I went to.  Well I've 
only been to one hockey game; sat in the box with a former pro player 
who, when I asked about the game (needed something to talk about), he 
said "do you know how basketball is played?" "Yeah" "well, it's 
essentially the same, but played on ice with nets and a puck.  There are 
a lot of differences, but all you need to know is the same stuff you need 
to know to enjoy a basketball game."

IOW, not terribly helpful information, but it was different.

Jim

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On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:57:06 +0000, Phil Cook wrote:

> And lo on Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:21:35 -0000, Jim Henderson
> <nos### [at] nospamcom> did spake, saying:
> 
>> On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:30:18 +0000, Phil Cook wrote:
>>
>>> Sod love, inertia's the most powerful human motivation :-)
>>
>> I think it's ambivalence. :-)
> 
> Meh, I don't know :-)

<shrug>

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:36:03 +0000, Phil Cook wrote:

>> Thing that gets me is that what's good for individuals is bad for
>> business (and vice versa).  For example, one company I worked for was
>> *proud* of being classified as a "late payer".  On the personal finance
>> side, that just doesn't work - it kills your credit rating.
> 
> 'Hey we've just fired everyone and our share price has increased' Don't
> see many politicial policies trying to split up families now do you :-)

Ain't that the truth...And to think, I could've fired one of the cats. ;-)

Jim

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On 13 Feb 2008 12:38:15 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:

>
>I'm not much of a sports fan myself; I like the occasional baseball game 
>and occasionally watch football (not US football, real football - what we 
>Americans call "Soccer") when the mood strikes us.

A couple of years ago I went to Pittsburgh for work and was given the
opportunity to go to a baseball game. Povray won, hands down :)

The last soccer game I went to (20 years ago) I took a book and my walkman.

Regards
	Stephen

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On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 21:07:16 +0000, Stephen wrote:

> On 13 Feb 2008 12:38:15 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> 
> 
>>I'm not much of a sports fan myself; I like the occasional baseball game
>>and occasionally watch football (not US football, real football - what
>>we Americans call "Soccer") when the mood strikes us.
> 
> A couple of years ago I went to Pittsburgh for work and was given the
> opportunity to go to a baseball game. Povray won, hands down :)

At least it wasn't Cricket. ;-)

> The last soccer game I went to (20 years ago) I took a book and my
> walkman.

Granted, for me, when I used to go to basketball games, it was typically 
box seats with a vendor or my employer (before the gift policy changed 
and the employer got rid of the box), so for me it was more about talking 
with coworkers and eating the free food (and the free drink).

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 21:07:16 +0000, Stephen wrote:
>
> > On 13 Feb 2008 12:38:15 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I'm not much of a sports fan myself; I like the occasional baseball game
> >>and occasionally watch football (not US football, real football - what
> >>we Americans call "Soccer") when the mood strikes us.
> >
> > A couple of years ago I went to Pittsburgh for work and was given the
> > opportunity to go to a baseball game. Povray won, hands down :)
>
> At least it wasn't Cricket. ;-)
>
> > The last soccer game I went to (20 years ago) I took a book and my
> > walkman.
>
> Granted, for me, when I used to go to basketball games, it was typically
> box seats with a vendor or my employer (before the gift policy changed
> and the employer got rid of the box), so for me it was more about talking
> with coworkers and eating the free food (and the free drink).
>
> Jim

Sports:
Non-enthusiasts show a sign of intelligence.

Basketball:
Pituitary cases trying to prove who's better.

Negative Ego:
Self-importance to the harm of others
Superiority trips are the essence of competition
Needing guarantees before giving anything worthwhile

I'd go on, but every time I try to explain this, I want to peeeeuuuwk.

It is so easy to think the intelligent thing to do is give up on this world and
die. But not everyone is like that. Only the mentally challenged publicly
exhibit such negative traits.

I believe if only everyone had my education, those who couldn't grasp such would
be few. I also think of pointing a finger but then I have to point to myself.
I'll give up when I leave.

aQ

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On 13 Feb 2008 17:53:17 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:

>
>At least it wasn't Cricket. ;-)

You can say that again nor was it tennis either. I remember playing rounders at
primary school, when the girls would let the boys join in.


Regards
	Stephen

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On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 10:54:13 +0000, Stephen wrote:

> On 13 Feb 2008 17:53:17 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> 
> 
>>At least it wasn't Cricket. ;-)
> 
> You can say that again nor was it tennis either. I remember playing
> rounders at primary school, when the girls would let the boys join in.

LOL!

Or golf.  I always think of what George Carlin said about watching golf 
on television - "It's like watching flies f*ck."

Jim

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On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 20:04:53 -0500, alphaQuad wrote:

> Sports:
> Non-enthusiasts show a sign of intelligence.
> 
> Basketball:
> Pituitary cases trying to prove who's better.
> 
> Negative Ego:
> Self-importance to the harm of others Superiority trips are the essence
> of competition Needing guarantees before giving anything worthwhile
> 
> I'd go on, but every time I try to explain this, I want to peeeeuuuwk.
> 
> It is so easy to think the intelligent thing to do is give up on this
> world and die. But not everyone is like that. Only the mentally
> challenged publicly exhibit such negative traits.
> 
> I believe if only everyone had my education, those who couldn't grasp
> such would be few. I also think of pointing a finger but then I have to
> point to myself. I'll give up when I leave.

Well, I have to disagree on this - different people like different 
things; some people enjoy competition, some people enjoy watching 
competition.

Others are more comfortable just sitting back smugly and believing 
themselves to be superior. ;-)

Jim

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On 14 Feb 2008 12:44:34 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:

>
>Or golf.  I always think of what George Carlin said about watching golf 
>on television - "It's like watching flies f*ck."

Or a good walk F*ucked

Regards
	Stephen

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On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 22:29:31 +0000, Stephen <mcavoysATaolDOTcom@> wrote:

>On 14 Feb 2008 12:44:34 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>
>>
>>Or golf.  I always think of what George Carlin said about watching golf 
>>on television - "It's like watching flies f*ck."
>
>Or a good walk F*ucked
>

Sorry my fingers slipped I can't cancel this.

Regards
	Stephen

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On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 22:29:31 +0000, Stephen wrote:

> On 14 Feb 2008 12:44:34 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Or golf.  I always think of what George Carlin said about watching golf
>>on television - "It's like watching flies f*ck."
> 
> Or a good walk F*ucked

"Think of the brains it takes to play golf:  Hitting a ball with a 
crooked stick, and then *walking* after it.  And *then* HITTING IT 
AGAIN!  I say pick it up, a**h*le, you're lucky you found it!  Put it in 
your pocket and go the f*ck home!" - Carlin

Jim

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On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 22:38:44 +0000, Stephen wrote:

> On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 22:29:31 +0000, Stephen <mcavoysATaolDOTcom@> wrote:
> 
>>On 14 Feb 2008 12:44:34 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Or golf.  I always think of what George Carlin said about watching golf
>>>on television - "It's like watching flies f*ck."
>>
>>Or a good walk F*cked
>>
>>
> Sorry my fingers slipped I can't cancel this.

LOL, I didn't even notice....

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On 14 Feb 2008 19:55:14 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:

>
>"Think of the brains it takes to play golf:

You forgot to mention battling against the weather or the cost. 

Regards
	Stephen

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