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On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 15:10:36 +0000, Invisible <voi### [at] dev null> wrote:
>>>>> [And I have to give 3 months' notice.]
>>>> What notice do they have to give you?
>>> None, IIRC.
>>
>> Don't you think that what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander?
>
>/Invisible is horribly lost/
Notice periods are usually reciprocal. If they have to give you notice then why
should you have to give them notice?
Regards
Stephen
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On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 15:35:18 +0000, Stephen <mcavoysATaolDOTcom@> wrote:
>
>Notice periods are usually reciprocal. If they have to give you notice then why
>should you have to give them notice?
Opps!
Notice periods are usually reciprocal. If they have to give you no notice then
why should you have to give them notice?
Regards
Stephen
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And lo on Wed, 06 Feb 2008 15:20:41 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did
spake, saying:
> Phil Cook wrote:
>> And lo on Wed, 06 Feb 2008 15:11:39 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull>
>> did spake, saying:
>>
>>>>> I mean, sure, it's great if you're *trying* to drive along a slalum
>>>>> course...
>>>> And this action is different to fiddling with the CD/Radio how?
>>>
>>> Pressing a button an a radio doesn't require bruit strength.
>> No it requires concentration which is what I thought you were pointing
>> to. If you require that much strength to wind down a window you're
>> either a wimp or got problems with your windows.
>
> No, it's just hard to physically crank a stiff window handle while
> holding the steering wheel straight.
Really? I've never had any difficulty at all.
> I suppose they could gear the mechanism down really really far to make
> it lighter... or just have electric windows. :-D
I watch people with electric windows, button is pressed window goes down,
stop, button pressed, window goes up a bit, press, up a bit more, press,
down a bit, press, run into back of car because you're too busy
concentrating on getting the window gap exactly where you want it :-)
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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Stephen wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 15:35:18 +0000, Stephen <mcavoysATaolDOTcom@> wrote:
>
>> Notice periods are usually reciprocal. If they have to give you notice then why
>> should you have to give them notice?
>
> Opps!
> Notice periods are usually reciprocal. If they have to give you no notice then
> why should you have to give them notice?
Hahaha!
I love it when people 0wn themselves...
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 15:47:55 +0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>I love it when people 0wn themselves...
But you do own yourself, no one else does!
Regards
Stephen
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Invisible wrote:
> Bill Pragnell wrote:
>
>>> Benny did. Damn fool drumming on the dashboard the whole way through
>>> the trip!
>>
>> Hmm, I can kind of see that working, but where did he put the bass?
>>
>> ;-)
>
> OMG, cruise control FTW!
>
> (I don't really understand what that is or how it works, but it seems
> appropriate here...)
I couldn't tell you how it works, but you set a speed, turn on the C/C
and the car will maintain that speed until you brake or accelerate with
the pedals, at which point the C/C will turn itself off. You still have
to steer though. :-)
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On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 14:10:24 +0100, scott wrote:
> 7.5 million new cars were sold in the US in 2004, so presumably some
> people can afford them. A lot of people get given them by their
> company, and a lot of other people just buy cars that are a few years
> old (but not decades).
Cars in the US are a fair bit cheaper than they are in the UK. Part of
the reason for that is the additional cost of actually delivering the
vehicles to the island - there's not a lot of space for manufacturing
plants (though there are a few, of course).
Jim
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On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 14:56:50 +0100, scott wrote:
>> I still can't figure out why they don't make a car that's electric, but
>> has a small deisel generator in the boot...
>>
>> (You'd only need to run it when the battery gets low. You wouldn't
>> waste fuel sitting in traffic. Electric motors don't require a gearbox
>> or a differential, so you'd get continuous acceleration without gear
>> shifts...)
>
> Actually you would need a gearbox for it to be useful. Electric motors
> generate maximum torque at very slow speeds, the faster the motor goes
> the lower the torque. This is exactly the wrong thing you need for a
> car, where the faster you go the more torque you need to overcome the
> speed squared air drag. If you didn't use a gearbox you'd end up with a
> car capable of burning out the tyres at low speed, but that took 10
> minutes to accelerate from 60 to 70 mph.
Have a look at how the Prius' engine is designed. It's very clever, and
uses a continuous acceleration engine (yes, no shifting is done; I test
drive one a few years ago, and it was smooth and there was sufficient
power to get a pretty good start. It wasn't a Ford Mustang, but I wasn't
unhappy with the acceleration.)
Jim
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On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 14:59:24 +0000, Invisible wrote:
> scott wrote:
>>>> In 2004 2.6 million new cars were sold in the UK. There's 60 million
>>>> people in the UK.
>>>
>>> Dude, how do you know all this??
>>
>> Google?
>
> Interesting. Never works for me... [At least, not for statistics.]
Try "UK car sales statistics" as a search (without the quotes). First
hit looks promising.
Jim
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On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 15:14:46 +0100, scott wrote:
>>> Well, no, you just had to stop somewhere in order to open or close the
>>> window.
>>
>> Why? Unless of course you're talking about non-driver's windows when
>> no-one is sitting there.
>
> And unless you are really rich and have a huge car, you can just lean
> over and do the passenger window by hand whilst you're driving.
Or if you drive a sensibly-designed car, the window controls are on the
centre panel rather than the doors. (My Saturn is like that)
Jim
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"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message
news:47a98896$1@news.povray.org...
You're just slightly out of date.
> And then, about 4 years ago, I purchased the newest car that anybody I
> know has ever had. It was 3 years old. It's so new, in fact, that it has
> *metalic* paint. And electric windows. And power steering. And ABS. It
> even has *air bags*.
The car I have now has metallic paint, power steering, electric windows,
ABS. It's close on 11 years old.
It doesn't have airbags though.
> As far as music goes, most cars come with an AM radio. With mechanical
> tuning buttons. (You know, "radio buttons"?)
Haven't seen one of those for a couple of decades. Haven't seen a radio
without FM for even longer.
> If you're lucky they have
> FM as well. And if it's a really expensive car, there might be a tape
> deck. My current car is unique in that it can play *CDs*. In fact, it
> has a *six* disk changer in the boot. Advanced!
Unique? I bought my car (2nd hand) 6 years ago and it had a 6 CD changer in
the boot, FM radio, tape deck. The car I sold at that time had a 4 CD
changer under the driver's seat, tape deck, FM and AM radio and it had had
that for around 4 years.
Most cars don't have tape decks any more. Who sells tapes these days?
> Sure, I know there are absurdly rich people who can afford expensive
> shiny cars that have all sorts of electronic gizmos in them. But
> seriously, normal people don't have that kind of money...
Ever heard of a loan? Very few people buy cars outright. Most people take
loans from the bank and repay over 3-5 years. I paid off my car (R80 000) in
3 years. Think I was paying around R3500 - R4000 per month. (do the
conversions yourself.).
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On 6 Feb 2008 11:38:27 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 14:10:24 +0100, scott wrote:
>
>> 7.5 million new cars were sold in the US in 2004, so presumably some
>> people can afford them. A lot of people get given them by their
>> company, and a lot of other people just buy cars that are a few years
>> old (but not decades).
>
>Cars in the US are a fair bit cheaper than they are in the UK. Part of
>the reason for that is the additional cost of actually delivering the
>vehicles to the island - there's not a lot of space for manufacturing
>plants (though there are a few, of course).
>
There are a few manufactories on this sceptered isle, you know :)
We do make some cars and even export them.
Regards
Stephen
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"scott" <sco### [at] laptopcom> wrote in message
news:47a96ba6$1@news.povray.org...
> > (Benny's car stereo is somehow able to decode MPEG-1 layer-3 digital
audio
> > from yellow-book CDs. Yes, yellow-book, but red-book. As a result, 1 CD
> > plays for about 13 hours. And the trebble is sufficiently chewed up to
> > annoy me. Apparently the difference is inaudible to everyone else...)
>
> Best invention ever - I would never get a car that wasn't capable of
playing
> MP3s now.
I wish mine did. The music system's a bit too old. It does read CD
rewritables, so that's a plus.
I'd love to be able to plug my ipod/Zen into the car radio. There's probably
some way to do it.
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Stephen wrote:
> There are a few manufactories on this sceptered isle, you know :)
> We do make some cars and even export them.
Really?
It's news to me that *anything* is manufactured in the UK. I thought all
mass-produced goods were imported...
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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"Bill Pragnell" <bil### [at] hotmailcom> wrote in message
news:47a98c7f@news.povray.org...
> In the back, for the kids, fine. However, I've recently been horrified
> to see that front-seat players, apparently aimed at drivers, are
> becoming common.
With the traffic situation here I'll take one of those happily. On Monday I
listened to an hour long podcast from start to finish during my drive from
work to the dojo. It's a distance of around 15km, 90% of that on the highway
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On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 16:54:34 +0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>Stephen wrote:
>
>> There are a few manufactories on this sceptered isle, you know :)
>> We do make some cars and even export them.
>
>Really?
>
>It's news to me that *anything* is manufactured in the UK. I thought all
>mass-produced goods were imported...
You have too "down" a view of the world. You need to get away from the Home
Counties to get your hands dirty. :)
Regards
Stephen
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On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 16:51:26 +0000, Stephen wrote:
>>Cars in the US are a fair bit cheaper than they are in the UK. Part of
>>the reason for that is the additional cost of actually delivering the
>>vehicles to the island - there's not a lot of space for manufacturing
>>plants (though there are a few, of course).
>>
> There are a few manufactories on this sceptered isle, you know We do
> make some cars and even export them.
Oh, yes, I know (miss the paranthetical?). But I also know that a lot of
the materials still have to be imported, which adds to the cost -
especially with the increase in oil/gas prices. And that said, petrol
isn't exactly cheap over there.
Jim
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On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 18:53:12 +0200, Gail Shaw wrote:
> I wish mine did. The music system's a bit too old. It does read CD
> rewritables, so that's a plus.
> I'd love to be able to plug my ipod/Zen into the car radio. There's
> probably some way to do it.
The only thing I don't like about my Saturn is that the connector on the
back of the radio is a nonstandard connector, and Saturn can't even tell
me how to hard-wire my iPod to it. So I use an RF transmitter instead,
and that generally works well.
Jim
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> Cars in the US are a fair bit cheaper than they are in the UK. Part of
> the reason for that is the additional cost of actually delivering the
> vehicles to the island - there's not a lot of space for manufacturing
> plants (though there are a few, of course).
We don't really drive cars that are actually made in the USA in Europe :-)
Most cars sold here are either built in Europe from a European make (mostly
French or German) or built in Europe from a Japanese make.
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> Oh, yes, I know (miss the paranthetical?). But I also know that a lot of
> the materials still have to be imported, which adds to the cost -
I'm currently working on a radio system for Ford, where most of the core
components are made in Japan, assembled in either China or Taiwan, then
moved to Mexico to assemble into the complete radio unit, then moved to some
Chrysler plant somewhere to be assembled into the car. Madness isn't it?
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Gail Shaw wrote:
> I wish mine did. The music system's a bit too old. It does read CD
> rewritables, so that's a plus.
Mine plays writables - don't know about rewritables.
> I'd love to be able to plug my ipod/Zen into the car radio. There's probably
> some way to do it.
Yeah... me too!
I did hear some guy who had is car stereo knicked. So he wanted to set
up a laptop running Xine on Linux to act as a music player. He was
asking how to wire a switch to the serial port and script it so he could
change tracks.
At this point, somebody said "dude, you just had your car stereo
knicked, so you want to park a *laptop* on the passenger seat??"
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 19:20:35 +0100, scott wrote:
> Madness isn't
> it?
Yep. :-)
Jim
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On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 19:18:29 +0100, scott wrote:
>> Cars in the US are a fair bit cheaper than they are in the UK. Part of
>> the reason for that is the additional cost of actually delivering the
>> vehicles to the island - there's not a lot of space for manufacturing
>> plants (though there are a few, of course).
>
> We don't really drive cars that are actually made in the USA in Europe
> :-) Most cars sold here are either built in Europe from a European make
> (mostly French or German) or built in Europe from a Japanese make.
Well, yes, I did know that - I've driven in the UK, and while there are a
few US-made cars around, they didn't seem prevalent and quite expensive.
Similarly, most of the BMWs driven in the US are manufactured in the US
AIUI; same sort of thing for Hondas & Toyotas.
Jim
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On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 18:21:52 +0000, Orchid XP v7 wrote:
> I did hear some guy who had is car stereo knicked. So he wanted to set
> up a laptop running Xine on Linux to act as a music player. He was
> asking how to wire a switch to the serial port and script it so he could
> change tracks.
Over here you can get aftermarket removable stereos or with removable
faceplates (which takes the entire control interface off the radio). The
thing is, if you get one of those, you'd better *always* take it with you.
> At this point, somebody said "dude, you just had your car stereo
> knicked, so you want to park a *laptop* on the passenger seat??"
Hehehehehehehe
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scott wrote:
> Do you have that rear "wing" that goes across the middle of the rear
> window? I found that it was exactly the right height to block out the
> view of cars behind on the motorway ... perhaps just the way I had the
> seat set and my height?
Nope, thankfully. ;)
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"Orchid XP v7" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message
news:47a9fabe$1@news.povray.org...
> Gail Shaw wrote:
>
> > I wish mine did. The music system's a bit too old. It does read CD
> > rewritables, so that's a plus.
>
> Mine plays writables - don't know about rewritables.
>
I didn't know until I tried. Is good. Means I can keep on reburning podcasts
to a rewritable CD to listen to. With all the power outages and resultant
traffic chaos lately I should be able to get through my backlog of podcasts
in a couple of weeks. Beats listening to the same songs over and over from
the local radio stations.
> At this point, somebody said "dude, you just had your car stereo
> knicked, so you want to park a *laptop* on the passenger seat??"
That's kinda silly. I suppose he was planning on taking the laptop when he
left the car. If cars only get broken in to when they're parked that might
not be so bad. Here, where smash and grabs and hijackings are the order of
the day, not so bright.
If I have my laptop in the car, it's in a bag, in the boot
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On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 20:39:00 +0200, Gail Shaw wrote:
> If I have my laptop in the car, it's in a bag, in the boot
Man, around *here* I wouldn't do that. We had our car broken into a few
years ago, and the first thing they did was open the boot. When they
found nothing, they cut the speaker wires. Apart from a bottle of washer
fluid, a backpack with a backlight for my kid's gameboy (but not the
gameboy itself), and about $0.12, they didn't get anything. Burned a
hole in the passenger seat with a cigarette (and the passenger visor has
a burn mark on it), but that was it.
Jim
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On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 14:56:50 +0100, scott <sco### [at] laptopcom> wrote:
> Actually you would need a gearbox for it to be useful. Electric motors
> generate maximum torque at very slow speeds, the faster the motor goes
> the lower the torque. This is exactly the wrong thing you need for a
> car, where the faster you go the more torque you need to overcome the
> speed squared air drag. If you didn't use a gearbox you'd end up with a
> car capable of burning out the tyres at low speed, but that took 10
> minutes to accelerate from 60 to 70 mph.
http://www.teslamotors.com/performance/acceleration_and_torque.php
Gets by with only two gears, and can supposedly be kept in second gear at
all times while still performing adequately.
--
FE
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"Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message
news:47aa0019$1@news.povray.org...
> On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 20:39:00 +0200, Gail Shaw wrote:
>
> > If I have my laptop in the car, it's in a bag, in the boot
>
> Man, around *here* I wouldn't do that.
Laptop's only in the car if I'm in the car. Car's fairly safe at night -
behind a locked gate. Main worries are parking at shopping centers, smash
and grabs (kinda hard if the item is in the boot) and hijackings. Fortunatly
I drive a car that's not very desired by thieves.
My boss got hijacked last week. They took the car, his laptop, cellphone,
wallet, few other things. Tracking company got the car back. Didn't get the
rest of the stuff
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scott wrote:
> I'm currently working on a radio system for Ford, where most of the core
> components are made in Japan, assembled in either China or Taiwan, then
> moved to Mexico to assemble into the complete radio unit, then moved to
> some Chrysler plant somewhere to be assembled into the car. Madness
> isn't it?
You know what? Screw light bulbs - THIS is the thing we need to fix to
stop global warming! ._.
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 18:21:52 +0000, Orchid XP v7 wrote:
>
>> I did hear some guy who had is car stereo knicked. So he wanted to set
>> up a laptop running Xine on Linux to act as a music player. He was
>> asking how to wire a switch to the serial port and script it so he could
>> change tracks.
>
> Over here you can get aftermarket removable stereos or with removable
> faceplates (which takes the entire control interface off the radio). The
> thing is, if you get one of those, you'd better *always* take it with you.
Yeah, I used to have one of those. It's a pitty is you forget to take
the faceplace with you... no music. :-(
My mum has this currently. And never removes it. But then, this woman
can't find her car keys in the morning, so...
>> At this point, somebody said "dude, you just had your car stereo
>> knicked, so you want to park a *laptop* on the passenger seat??"
>
> Hehehehehehehe
Yeah. Literally, is plan was to take a knackered old laptop and park it
on the passenger seat with a bunch of wires going into the speakers.
Hmm... ;-)
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 19:02:01 +0000, Orchid XP v7 wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 18:21:52 +0000, Orchid XP v7 wrote:
>>
>>> I did hear some guy who had is car stereo knicked. So he wanted to set
>>> up a laptop running Xine on Linux to act as a music player. He was
>>> asking how to wire a switch to the serial port and script it so he
>>> could change tracks.
>>
>> Over here you can get aftermarket removable stereos or with removable
>> faceplates (which takes the entire control interface off the radio).
>> The thing is, if you get one of those, you'd better *always* take it
>> with you.
>
> Yeah, I used to have one of those. It's a pitty is you forget to take
> the faceplace with you... no music. :-(
Yeah, that would be my problem. I spend enough time in the morning
trying to remember to grab my access badge and office keys before I head
down to Provo. But I've also determined that it sucks to get there and
then realise I can't get into the building (or my office) - because there
ain't no way I'm driving another 90 miles so I can open my door. :-)
> My mum has this currently. And never removes it. But then, this woman
> can't find her car keys in the morning, so...
>>> At this point, somebody said "dude, you just had your car stereo
>>> knicked, so you want to park a *laptop* on the passenger seat??"
>>
>> Hehehehehehehe
>
> Yeah. Literally, is plan was to take a knackered old laptop and park it
> on the passenger seat with a bunch of wires going into the speakers.
> Hmm... ;-)
I'd believe that. On longer trips, I've done this myself (back when I
had a USB-powered RF modulator that I could plug into the headphone jack
on my laptop). One power inverter and I could run the laptop as long as
the car had power. But I'd just use RF to get it to the stereo, rather
than wires.
A lot of the newer radios I've seen in rental cars have an aux-in jack on
the front now. I wish mine did (I'm too cheap to put in an aftermarket
radio these days).
Jim
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On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 20:55:49 +0200, Gail Shaw wrote:
> "Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message
> news:47aa0019$1@news.povray.org...
>> On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 20:39:00 +0200, Gail Shaw wrote:
>>
>> > If I have my laptop in the car, it's in a bag, in the boot
>>
>> Man, around *here* I wouldn't do that.
>
> Laptop's only in the car if I'm in the car. Car's fairly safe at night -
> behind a locked gate. Main worries are parking at shopping centers,
> smash and grabs (kinda hard if the item is in the boot) and hijackings.
> Fortunatly I drive a car that's not very desired by thieves.
Ah, yes, and I do that as well - I put the bag usually on the back seat
or on the passenger seat, but if I've got it with me, I won't stop to
pick things up at the store unless I stop at home first and drop it off.
I usually have a 1 TB external drive with me as well for work. I'm
generally not concerned about the laptop so much as the data on it - I
have source code as well as source files for training materials, not
stuff we want "in the wild."
> My boss got hijacked last week. They took the car, his laptop,
> cellphone, wallet, few other things. Tracking company got the car back.
> Didn't get the rest of the stuff
Ouch - was he OK?
Jim
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> A lot of the newer radios I've seen in rental cars have an aux-in jack on
> the front now. I wish mine did (I'm too cheap to put in an aftermarket
> radio these days).
That would indeed be very useful...
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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"Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message
news:47aa1166@news.povray.org...
> Ah, yes, and I do that as well - I put the bag usually on the back seat
> or on the passenger seat,
Asking for a smash & grab in these parts. In the boot is safer as far as I'm
concerned.
> > My boss got hijacked last week. They took the car, his laptop,
> > cellphone, wallet, few other things. Tracking company got the car back.
> > Didn't get the rest of the stuff
>
> Ouch - was he OK?
>
Shaken, not hurt. Apparently 3 guys with guns ambushed him in his driveway.
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On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 22:25:09 +0200, Gail Shaw wrote:
> "Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message
> news:47aa1166@news.povray.org...
>
>> Ah, yes, and I do that as well - I put the bag usually on the back seat
>> or on the passenger seat,
>
> Asking for a smash & grab in these parts. In the boot is safer as far as
> I'm concerned.
>
>> > My boss got hijacked last week. They took the car, his laptop,
>> > cellphone, wallet, few other things. Tracking company got the car
>> > back. Didn't get the rest of the stuff
>>
>> Ouch - was he OK?
>>
>>
> Shaken, not hurt. Apparently 3 guys with guns ambushed him in his
> driveway.
Here's hoping none of us have to experience that (and for him as well!)
Jim
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On 6 Feb 2008 12:55:56 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>Oh, yes, I know (miss the paranthetical?). But I also know that a lot of
>the materials still have to be imported, which adds to the cost -
>especially with the increase in oil/gas prices. And that said, petrol
>isn't exactly cheap over there.
Well, it is maybe a sore point, with the decline of our manufacturing base. :)
Thank you Mrs T.
Regards
Stephen
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On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 18:58:58 +0000, Orchid XP v7 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>
>You know what? Screw light bulbs - THIS is the thing we need to fix to
>stop global warming! ._.
>
BC light bulbs!
Regards
Stephen
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On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 20:35:24 +0000, Stephen wrote:
> On 6 Feb 2008 12:55:56 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>
>>Oh, yes, I know (miss the paranthetical?). But I also know that a lot
>>of the materials still have to be imported, which adds to the cost -
>>especially with the increase in oil/gas prices. And that said, petrol
>>isn't exactly cheap over there.
>
> Well, it is maybe a sore point, with the decline of our manufacturing
> base. :) Thank you Mrs T.
I know what you mean. While we haven't seen as deep a decline in
manufacturing over here, there has been a pretty steep decline anyways -
after all, look at all the toys painted with lead-based paints coming out
of China to the US....
Jim
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On 6 Feb 2008 15:45:07 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>
>I know what you mean. While we haven't seen as deep a decline in
>manufacturing over here, there has been a pretty steep decline anyways -
>after all, look at all the toys painted with lead-based paints coming out
>of China to the US....
Well that's what happens with globalisation. Everything goes to the cheapest.
B*gg*r the quality. :(
Remember the Tolpuddle Martyrs!
Andrew probably won't remember it was in 1834 after all. :)
Regards
Stephen
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On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 21:19:23 +0000, Stephen wrote:
> On 6 Feb 2008 15:45:07 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>
>
>>I know what you mean. While we haven't seen as deep a decline in
>>manufacturing over here, there has been a pretty steep decline anyways -
>>after all, look at all the toys painted with lead-based paints coming
>>out of China to the US....
>
> Well that's what happens with globalisation. Everything goes to the
> cheapest. B*gg*r the quality. :(
> Remember the Tolpuddle Martyrs!
Heh, true enough. But the other thing that *should* happen with
globalisation is that the expertise moves up - so as more rote jobs are
shipped overseas, the former workers have to learn new skills.
Nobody ever said that life was easy or that continued employment didn't
require the acquisition of new skills. It's a sad reality for those who
don't adapt to the changing employment scene, but those who do tend to do
a lot better than those who don't.
My dad's generation stayed employed by one employer for most of their
lives (dad worked for Massey-Ferguson for something like 50 years before
he retired in '81). Those days are pretty much long past (though I work
on a team with people who've been with the company for 15-20 years).
Most people also can expect to go through 3-5 total career changes these
days as well. I'm on #3 myself - went from implementing/fixing
technology to teaching it to managing those who teach it. I never
thought I'd move out of implementing.
Jim
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On 6 Feb 2008 16:24:44 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>
>Heh, true enough. But the other thing that *should* happen with
>globalisation is that the expertise moves up - so as more rote jobs are
>shipped overseas, the former workers have to learn new skills.
>Nobody ever said that life was easy or that continued employment didn't
>require the acquisition of new skills. It's a sad reality for those who
>don't adapt to the changing employment scene, but those who do tend to do
>a lot better than those who don't.
>
>My dad's generation stayed employed by one employer for most of their
>lives (dad worked for Massey-Ferguson for something like 50 years before
>he retired in '81). Those days are pretty much long past (though I work
>on a team with people who've been with the company for 15-20 years).
>Most people also can expect to go through 3-5 total career changes these
>days as well. I'm on #3 myself - went from implementing/fixing
>technology to teaching it to managing those who teach it. I never
>thought I'd move out of implementing.
Yes but what do you do with the millions of people that were needed for
manufacturing and keeping the system going before automation and cheap
transport. That's the problem or at least one of them.
Not everyone has the opportunity to re-skill and move up. I'm on career #4;
worked in factories, became a service engineer, worked offshore, now in SAP.
But then I'm a chancer :)
I can't believe I've had three interviews this week for jobs that would take me
completely round the world. And one later in the week to work in Malaysia. That
is a far cry from my father who only went abroad in the war. :)
Regards
Stephen
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On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 21:45:19 +0000, Stephen <mcavoysATaolDOTcom@> wrote:
>I can't believe I've had three interviews this week
And one of the interviewers had used Pov!
What is that handshake again? :)
Regards
Stephen
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On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 21:45:19 +0000, Stephen wrote:
> Yes but what do you do with the millions of people that were needed for
> manufacturing and keeping the system going before automation and cheap
> transport.
That can be a tricky one, especially early in the cycle. I tend to think
that *most* can re-skill and move up, or move sideways into a somewhat
similar position in a different industry.
Those who tend to be successful, I think, tend to be people who instead
of learning "how to build a paint sprayer", but rather how to follow
instructions on how to build something.
From there, one possible career path is process optimization, which can
open a bunch of other doors as well.
> That's the problem or at least one of them. Not everyone has
> the opportunity to re-skill and move up.
At least in my experience, the opportunities are there, but the
motivation often isn't. Of course, it's not 100% who have the
opportunities (or don't have the motivation). A big problem also has to
do with people living beyond their means; when you do that, you can't
take a lower paying job while you are re-skilling.
When I moved into instruction, I took about a 7% pay cut (in base
salary), and it was a struggle for a while. After 5 years, I'm back
where I was when I left the previous employer; but I'm also described as
"unamerican" by some because I don't carry a lot of debt load and
generally we only buy what we can afford right now (excepting big-ticket
items like cars, houses, and that sort of thing). Credit management is a
skill that it seems a lot of younger people don't have these days - even
in my generation, debt loads tend to be higher than our parents' were,
and we learned about credit management later in life than we really
should have.
> I'm on career #4; worked in
> factories, became a service engineer, worked offshore, now in SAP. But
> then I'm a chancer
Same here. The director I worked for 6 years ago (when I left to come to
Novell) said that he wished he had the guts to make a drastic change like
I did. I think he was also commenting on my choice of employer as well;
Novell has long been known as a company that you're likely to get laid
off from. I've survived 3 or 4 RIFs in 5 years, the first one a month
after I started.
> I can't believe I've had three interviews this week for jobs that would
> take me completely round the world. And one later in the week to work in
> Malaysia. That is a far cry from my father who only went abroad in the
> war.
Wow, that's impressive. :-)
Jim
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On 6 Feb 2008 17:02:53 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>Those who tend to be successful, I think, tend to be people who instead
>of learning "how to build a paint sprayer", but rather how to follow
>instructions on how to build something.
That is dispiriting.
>From there, one possible career path is process optimization, which can
>open a bunch of other doors as well.
>
>> That's the problem or at least one of them. Not everyone has
>> the opportunity to re-skill and move up.
>
>At least in my experience, the opportunities are there, but the
>motivation often isn't. Of course, it's not 100% who have the
>opportunities (or don't have the motivation).
I saw it differently here when Mrs T started to go the way she did. (I won't go
into that. It is an old story and you shouldn't talk politics or religion if you
want to keep friends. Oh what the Hell I can't keep my mouth shut :)
>A big problem also has to
>do with people living beyond their means; when you do that, you can't
>take a lower paying job while you are re-skilling.
How very true. Debt is a major problem here in the UK.
>When I moved into instruction, I took about a 7% pay cut (in base
>salary), and it was a struggle for a while. After 5 years, I'm back
>where I was when I left the previous employer; but I'm also described as
>"unamerican" by some because I don't carry a lot of debt load and
>generally we only buy what we can afford right now (excepting big-ticket
>items like cars, houses, and that sort of thing). Credit management is a
>skill that it seems a lot of younger people don't have these days - even
>in my generation, debt loads tend to be higher than our parents' were,
>and we learned about credit management later in life than we really
>should have.
>
It may be what brings gown the house of cards :(
>> I'm on career #4; worked in
>> factories, became a service engineer, worked offshore, now in SAP. But
>> then I'm a chancer
>
>Same here. The director I worked for 6 years ago (when I left to come to
>Novell) said that he wished he had the guts to make a drastic change like
>I did. I think he was also commenting on my choice of employer as well;
>Novell has long been known as a company that you're likely to get laid
>off from. I've survived 3 or 4 RIFs in 5 years, the first one a month
>after I started.
>
Welcome to our caring company. I won't introduce you to those people they won't
be here long. :)
Yeuch!
>> I can't believe I've had three interviews this week for jobs that would
>> take me completely round the world. And one later in the week to work in
>> Malaysia. That is a far cry from my father who only went abroad in the
>> war.
>
>Wow, that's impressive. :-)
>
Thanks I think so too that's why I'm bragging. :) Even if I don't get any of
them I'm pleased that I was considered.
Regards
Stephen
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On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 22:28:30 +0000, Stephen wrote:
> On 6 Feb 2008 17:02:53 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>
>>Those who tend to be successful, I think, tend to be people who instead
>>of learning "how to build a paint sprayer", but rather how to follow
>>instructions on how to build something.
>
> That is dispiriting.
What, that people have to evolve their skills? That's the way the world
is (at least in the so-called "western world") these days. Adapt or
die....It sounds harsh, but it's reality.
>>From there, one possible career path is process optimization, which can
>>open a bunch of other doors as well.
>>
>>> That's the problem or at least one of them. Not everyone has the
>>> opportunity to re-skill and move up.
>>
>>At least in my experience, the opportunities are there, but the
>>motivation often isn't. Of course, it's not 100% who have the
>>opportunities (or don't have the motivation).
>
> I saw it differently here when Mrs T started to go the way she did. (I
> won't go into that. It is an old story and you shouldn't talk politics
> or religion if you want to keep friends. Oh what the Hell I can't keep
> my mouth shut :)
I'm happy to talk either politics or religion. Maybe that's why I don't
have a lot of friends. ;-)
I'm having a great debate right now with someone about the relative
merits of calling Wicca a religion (he doesn't believe it is, and he's
wrong <g>) and the US armed forces holding weekly services for those who
are observant of that particular faith. Of course, his definition for
"religion" is pretty narrow - you have to believe in a monotheistic god,
which generally narrows the field to Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.
By his definition, Buddhism and Hinduism don't (and shouldn't) qualify.
Add to that his statement that belief that science can eventually explain
everything is irrational (but belief in an invisible guy in the sky who
controls everything isn't?), and you've got a conversation that's ripe
for lots of fun shouting. :-) Needless to say, *I've* been having fun
with it.
>>A big problem also has to
>>do with people living beyond their means; when you do that, you can't
>>take a lower paying job while you are re-skilling.
>
> How very true. Debt is a major problem here in the UK.
Yeah, I understand that you guys are catching the sub-prime mortgage wave
that hit us the end of last year. Don't get bitten. I also understand
that there's been an interesting development in a bank bought by Citi
over there - that they're terminating accounts for people with *good*
credit because they're not making any money on interest. Terminating
accounts for people who pay their cards off every month: What's the
world coming to?
>>When I moved into instruction, I took about a 7% pay cut (in base
>>salary), and it was a struggle for a while. After 5 years, I'm back
>>where I was when I left the previous employer; but I'm also described as
>>"unamerican" by some because I don't carry a lot of debt load and
>>generally we only buy what we can afford right now (excepting big-ticket
>>items like cars, houses, and that sort of thing). Credit management is
>>a skill that it seems a lot of younger people don't have these days -
>>even in my generation, debt loads tend to be higher than our parents'
>>were, and we learned about credit management later in life than we
>>really should have.
>>
> It may be what brings gown the house of cards :(
Yep. I have to admit that I'm concerned about my retirement fund; I was
stupid when I was in my early 20s and closed my 401(k) account so I could
make a down payment on a house. That money would, in the long run, been
much better left invested where it was. I may have another 30-35 years
of working time left before I retire, but the operation of compound
interest would've served me well with the money I put in when I was 19-22.
>>> I'm on career #4; worked in
>>> factories, became a service engineer, worked offshore, now in SAP. But
>>> then I'm a chancer
>>
>>Same here. The director I worked for 6 years ago (when I left to come
>>to Novell) said that he wished he had the guts to make a drastic change
>>like I did. I think he was also commenting on my choice of employer as
>>well; Novell has long been known as a company that you're likely to get
>>laid off from. I've survived 3 or 4 RIFs in 5 years, the first one a
>>month after I started.
>>
>>
> Welcome to our caring company. I won't introduce you to those people
> they won't be here long. :)
> Yeuch!
It can be a bit depressing at times. That said, I love the job, though,
and right now couldn't see myself doing anything else. I've always been
a bit mercenary when it comes to employment (though there are things I
*won't* do), and for the first time in my career, I'm in a place where,
if something "better" came along I probably wouldn't take it. I would
look at it, but IME "better" is always a case of appearances, and things
are pretty good where I am. I made a jump once before for "better" and
it was (work-wise) a very bad call. Life-wise, it worked out very well
(I met my wife because I moved for the job), but I was miserable for
about 2 years, and unemployed for 6 months of that.
>>> I can't believe I've had three interviews this week for jobs that
>>> would take me completely round the world. And one later in the week to
>>> work in Malaysia. That is a far cry from my father who only went
>>> abroad in the war.
>>
>>Wow, that's impressive. :-)
>>
> Thanks I think so too that's why I'm bragging. :) Even if I don't get
> any of them I'm pleased that I was considered.
That's always a good ego-boost, isn't it? Current job sent me to
Barcelona a few years ago (and actually, it was before I was in this job
- I was doing some of the job prior to moving back into the department),
and this year is looking like I'll get to at least go to Europe (probably
Germany) and Australia, possibly also New Zealand and Japan (the latter
will be on my own dime to visit my brother - I figure if I'm "in the
neighborhood" I should go visit him in Osaka).
I really enjoy travel - the actual "getting there" bit isn't a lot of
fun, but once I'm there, I like to get out and see things.
Jim
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>> I'm currently working on a radio system for Ford, where most of the core
>> components are made in Japan, assembled in either China or Taiwan, then
>> moved to Mexico to assemble into the complete radio unit, then moved to
>> some Chrysler plant somewhere to be assembled into the car. Madness
>> isn't it?
>
> You know what? Screw light bulbs - THIS is the thing we need to fix to
> stop global warming! ._.
Agreed - but unfortunately people would rather pay 10% less for something
that has been shipped all round the world to make it as cheap as possible.
Until that changes, or they introduce some huge global tax on shipping, the
situation is going to stay.
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scott wrote:
>> You know what? Screw light bulbs - THIS is the thing we need to fix to
>> stop global warming! ._.
>
> Agreed - but unfortunately people would rather pay 10% less for
> something that has been shipped all round the world to make it as cheap
> as possible. Until that changes, or they introduce some huge global tax
> on shipping, the situation is going to stay.
As far as I can tell, the problem is that it's cheaper to make stuff in
some distant country than to make it right here. When that changes, the
problem should go away...
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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> As far as I can tell, the problem is that it's cheaper to make stuff in
> some distant country than to make it right here. When that changes, the
> problem should go away...
I don't think it will ever be the case that it costs the same to make
something in every country on Earth...
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And lo on Wed, 06 Feb 2008 18:45:08 -0000, Fredrik Eriksson
<fe79}--at--{yahoo}--dot--{com> did spake, saying:
> On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 14:56:50 +0100, scott <sco### [at] laptopcom> wrote:
>> Actually you would need a gearbox for it to be useful. Electric motors
>> generate maximum torque at very slow speeds, the faster the motor goes
>> the lower the torque. This is exactly the wrong thing you need for a
>> car, where the faster you go the more torque you need to overcome the
>> speed squared air drag. If you didn't use a gearbox you'd end up with
>> a car capable of burning out the tyres at low speed, but that took 10
>> minutes to accelerate from 60 to 70 mph.
>
> http://www.teslamotors.com/performance/acceleration_and_torque.php
>
> Gets by with only two gears, and can supposedly be kept in second gear
> at all times while still performing adequately.
How amusing - assembled in the UK yet you can't buy one here.
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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