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And lo on Fri, 01 Feb 2008 15:09:50 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] dev null> did
spake, saying:
>>>> You know, it's probably a *good* thing that I don't know how to say
>>>> "you have a really nice arse" in French. Because that waitress would
>>>> have probably slapped me for it.
>>>
>>> OK so I won't translate that :-D
>> OMG, I just had a very silly idea... Google Translate. 0;-)
>> (From the site that brought us "leave the impact price-increase your
>> body"...)
>
> Hmm. I've just spent several hours translating every naughty phrase I
> can think of from English to French. Damn, this has got to the the
> silliest thing I've done in a long, *long* time... ;-)
>
> Je me demande, cela fait un sens?
"What! My mother was a saint. Get out!"
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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And lo on Fri, 01 Feb 2008 15:51:13 -0000, Gail Shaw sa dot com>
<"<initialsurname"@sentech> did spake, saying:
>
> "Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message
> news:47a3338f$1@news.povray.org...
>> Gail Shaw wrote:
>>
>> > Try Thai. It's a tonal language. The same sounding word has different
>> > meanings if you say it with a high pitch, medium pitch, low pitch,
> rising or
>> > falling.
>>
>> ...!!! o_O
>
> Apparently there's one combination of sounds that has meaning in all 5
> tones, and you can use those 5 words to make a sentence. However, when
> the
> tour guid sia that sentance, t sounded to me like the same word 5 times.
> I could not hear any difference.
[Insert obligatory B5 reference here.]
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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Phil Cook wrote:
> And lo on Fri, 01 Feb 2008 15:09:50 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did
> spake, saying:
>
>> Je me demande, cela fait un sens?
>
> "What! My mother was a saint. Get out!"
o_O
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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"Gail Shaw" <initialsurname@sentech sa dot com> wrote in message
news:47a33ff0@news.povray.org...
> Apparently there's one combination of sounds that has meaning in all 5
> tones, and you can use those 5 words to make a sentence. However, when the
> tour guid sia that sentance, t sounded to me like the same word 5 times. I
> could not hear any difference.
>
Let me rewrite that, seeing as I apparently completely lost the ability to
type for a few moments
However, when the tour guide said that sentence, it sounded to me like the
same word 5 times. I could not hear any difference.
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"Phil Cook" <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote in message
news:op.t5ur3jmwc3xi7v@news.povray.org...
> [Insert obligatory B5 reference here.]
>
It's friday and I'm slow. Which reference did you have in mind?
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And lo on Fri, 01 Feb 2008 16:08:39 -0000, Gail Shaw sa dot com>
<"<initialsurname"@sentech> did spake, saying:
>
> "Phil Cook" <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote in message
> news:op.t5ur3jmwc3xi7v@news.povray.org...
>
>> [Insert obligatory B5 reference here.]
>>
>
> It's friday and I'm slow.
Weekend yay!
> Which reference did you have in mind?
Zathras, Zathras, Zathras
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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And lo on Fri, 01 Feb 2008 16:03:44 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did
spake, saying:
> Phil Cook wrote:
>> And lo on Fri, 01 Feb 2008 15:09:50 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull>
>> did spake, saying:
>>
>>> Je me demande, cela fait un sens?
>> "What! My mother was a saint. Get out!"
>
> o_O
GIYF - add "Futurama" to the query.
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 10:23:34 +0000, Invisible wrote:
> To speak French, you have to actually speak in a French accent, or
> nobody knows what you're saying. Which actually makes sense, really...
Well, I've been told that the French (and in particular, Parisians) often
will pretend they don't understand if your French is bad. I had a
similar experience to this in Barcelona - the difference between Spanish
and Catalan is small enough that if you speak Spanish, they can
understand you.
For example, in Spanish, the city "Barcelona" is pronounced "bar-se-lone-
a". In Catalan, it's pronounced "Bar-theh-lone-a". But if you don't
pronounce it the second way, the locals will tend to pretend to not know
what you're saying. They damned well know what is meant, though.
Jim
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"Phil Cook" <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote in message
news:op.t5utu1ywc3xi7v@news.povray.org...
> And lo on Fri, 01 Feb 2008 16:08:39 -0000, Gail Shaw sa dot com>
> <"<initialsurname"@sentech> did spake, saying:
>
>
> > It's friday and I'm slow.
>
> Weekend yay!
>
> > Which reference did you have in mind?
>
> Zathras, Zathras, Zathras
Ah right. I almost forgot them. But then, no one ever listen to poor
Zanthras
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Invisible nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 2008/02/01 05:23:
> During my stay in Switzerland, I discovered a number of things.
>
> The region I was staying in (Nendaz) speaks French. Now, my knowledge of
> French is minimal. I recall that what we refer to as a "gold fish", the
> French call "le passion rougue" ("the red fish"), and that's about it.
We say "le poasson rouge"
>
> I recall sitting down in the cafe at Siviez. Waitress wanders over and
> mutters something in French. I look at her for a moment. "Well I hope
> your English is way better than my French." She looks worried.
>
> Well anyway, I eventually managed to figure out that if you mumble
> "shokolah", they bring you a mug of hot chocolate. Which tastes ****ing
> fantastic BTW.
>
> Benny likes to drink some kind of coffee. I'm not sure exactly what it
> is. The waitress comes over and he says "reversay". And she looks at him
> like "dude, WTF?" Anyway, it turns out the correct way to pronounce this
> word is actually a cross between saying "reversay" and trying to cough
> up a gold watch: hhhhhhhhrrreversay. Otherwise they literally have no
> idea what you're saying.
Kind of sound like "poured again" or "turned over". Depend on the exact context.
>
> I still have no idea what this word actually means... Any guesses?
>
> Also somewhat interesting: If you ask an English person how to say
> "hello" in French, they'll tell you it's "bon-jor". Well, *I* didn't
> hear anybody say that! What I heard was much more like "bor-shor".
> Because, you know what? To speak French, you have to actually speak in a
> French accent, or nobody knows what you're saying. Which actually makes
> sense, really...
Just *what* french accent are you talking about? There are 100's of them...
I live in Montréal, Québec, end there are times I have dificulties understanding
some other french speakers.
I can say the same about english eccents ;-)
>
> Similarly, it's not "mer-see". It appears to involve a completely
> different set of vowles, more closely approximating "meial-si". Danm, I
> can't even *type* it, much less say it out loud.
"mer-see" is closer to the way we say it where I live.
>
> For me, the most baffling thing was hearing little kids uttering
> complex-sounding French sentences. Now, logically, this isn't
> surprising. They're probably from France! What else would they be
> speaking? And yet, it still amazed and astonished me every time...
> French words seem to have such a complicated structure. And yet these
> kids toss it around as if it's *easy*. Which, when you're a French
> person, it probably is.
I was wondering the same when I had to learn english...
>
> Like I said, logically there's nothing unusual here. Rationally, you
> know that. But even so, when you see small children casually doing
> something that you yourself find impossibly difficult... it's always
> surprising.
>
> (But then, come to that, there were children there who could ski better
> than they can *walk*! Really showed me up...)
>
> You know, it's probably a *good* thing that I don't know how to say "you
> have a really nice arse" in French. Because that waitress would have
> probably slapped me for it. Mind you, she says her boyfriend is always
> teaching her new English words and phrases. (And damn, her English isn't
> half bad...) Ho hum!
It's "Vous avez un beau derrière!" Or "Vous avez de belles fesses"
Pronounce (aproximataly):
"vou zavai un bo deriair" or "...de bell fess"
And, yes, it could result in a stiff slap in the face...
You may try to first learn Spanish or Italian, then learn French. Learning Latin
and classical Greek can also help. Anyway, learning a new language is never a waste.
--
Alain
-------------------------------------------------
Advertisements contain the only truths to be relied on in a newspaper.
Thomas Jefferson
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Invisible nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 2008/02/01 10:09:
>> OMG, I just had a very silly idea... Google Translate. 0;-)
>>
>> (From the site that brought us "leave the impact price-increase your
>> body"...)
>
> Hmm. I've just spent several hours translating every naughty phrase I
> can think of from English to French. Damn, this has got to the the
> silliest thing I've done in a long, *long* time... ;-)
>
> Je me demande, cela fait un sens?
>
Absolument!
Can you post some of those?
--
Alain
-------------------------------------------------
The other day I came home and a guy was jogging, naked. I asked "Why?" He
said "Because you came home early."
Rodney Dangerfield
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Alain wrote:
> Just *what* french accent are you talking about? There are 100's of them...
> I live in Montréal, Québec, end there are times I have dificulties
> understanding some other french speakers.
> I can say the same about english eccents ;-)
As Benny pointed out, there are - or were - areas of England where the
dialect they speak is so strange as to be beyond comprehension to most
normal people. [I'm not even going to attempt to describe his impression
of Glasgow. But it involves saying "JIMMI!" a lot and speaking extremely
fast...]
>> You know, it's probably a *good* thing that I don't know how to say
>> "you have a really nice arse" in French. Because that waitress would
>> have probably slapped me for it. Mind you, she says her boyfriend is
>> always teaching her new English words and phrases. (And damn, her
>> English isn't half bad...) Ho hum!
> It's "Vous avez un beau derrière!" Or "Vous avez de belles fesses"
> Pronounce (aproximataly):
> "vou zavai un bo deriair" or "...de bell fess"
> And, yes, it could result in a stiff slap in the face...
LOL! Especially when I've just watched her standing there snogging her
bf's face off in the middle of the cafe... ;-)
FWIW, Google claims "Vous avez un joli cul." I have no idea whether that
actually makes any sense at all though. Google translations are a
little... variable. ;-)
[Never the less, I just wasted a whole afternoon coming up with stuff
like "Je tiens à vous faire nu." Damn, I should grow up... :-S ]
> You may try to first learn Spanish or Italian, then learn French.
> Learning Latin and classical Greek can also help. Anyway, learning a new
> language is never a waste.
That's exactly the mind-set I had when I took up Haskell. Oh, wait...
[On a more serious note... I have attempted to learn Latin a few times.
And generally failed. Oh well!]
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Gail Shaw nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 2008/02/01 09:52:
> "Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message
> news:47a2f325$1@news.povray.org...
>
>> To speak French, you have to actually speak in a
>> French accent, or nobody knows what you're saying. Which actually makes
>> sense, really...
>
> Try Thai. It's a tonal language. The same sounding word has different
> meanings if you say it with a high pitch, medium pitch, low pitch, rising or
> falling.
>
>
There are 4 pitches.
High pitch, medium high, medium low, low, flat, rising or falling. When you hear
cantonese or mandarin, it all sound like random noises and buzzings. At times,
it don't even sound like any king of language at all.
The various arabic languages are also prety strange sounding, when you don't
speak them.
--
Alain
-------------------------------------------------
You know you've been raytracing too long when someone shows you a photograph of
their new rough-slate kitchen floor and you say "nice normals".
-- Tom Melly
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On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 20:05:01 +0000, Orchid XP v7 wrote:
> As Benny pointed out, there are - or were - areas of England where the
> dialect they speak is so strange as to be beyond comprehension to most
> normal people. [I'm not even going to attempt to describe his impression
> of Glasgow. But it involves saying "JIMMI!" a lot and speaking extremely
> fast...]
Glaswegian can be difficult to understand, yes. I've got a friend/
coworker who lives between Glasgow and Edinburgh who speaks a dying
dialect of Gaelic. A real shame, because it's a beautiful language to
listen to.
Jim
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"Orchid XP v7" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message
news:47a37b4d$1@news.povray.org...
> Alain wrote:
>
> > Just *what* french accent are you talking about? There are 100's of
them...
> > I live in Montréal, Québec, end there are times I have dificulties
> > understanding some other french speakers.
> > I can say the same about english eccents ;-)
>
> As Benny pointed out, there are - or were - areas of England where the
> dialect they speak is so strange as to be beyond comprehension to most
> normal people.
I've had problems understanding the accents/dialict of central London,
Glasgow, Liverpool, Aberdene.
I have no problems with the accents in Edinburgh, Inverness, most parts of
London or the Midlands. Those Cockneys though... (Including 2 cousins and an
aunt, none of whome I can understand)
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Orchid XP v7 a écrit :
> FWIW, Google claims "Vous avez un joli cul." I have no idea whether that
> actually makes any sense at all though. Google translations are a
> little... variable. ;-)
It is perfectly correct, in the grammatical sense or course :-)
No, the only problem with Google's translation, in this case, is that it
kind of mixes two tones. "You" is translated as "vous" for people you
respect or are unfamiliar with. "Cul" is a familiar term, so ordinarily
you don't put both in the same sentence.
So that you can adjust the level of the sentence like so:
"Vous avez un joli derrière"
Or if you really want to be more familiar: "Tu as un beau cul".
In effect, the first sentence would justify the stiff slap in the face,
and with the second, chances are you get a knee somewhere else as an
added bonus :-D
--
Vincent
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Invisible wrote:
>>> For me, the most baffling thing was hearing little kids uttering
>>> complex-sounding French sentences. Now, logically, this isn't
>>> surprising. They're probably from France! What else would they be
>>> speaking? And yet, it still amazed and astonished me every time...
>>> French words seem to have such a complicated structure. And yet these
>>> kids toss it around as if it's *easy*. Which, when you're a French
>>> person, it probably is.
>>
>> That's completely normal. I used to think the same seeing little kids
>> speaking English.
>
> I think the little kids speaking German amaze me more though...
>
> [Not many of those where I was - but I saw one in the Science Museum in
> London one time...]
In his essay _The Awful German Language_, Mark Twain mentions that a
museum curator he met in Germany was interested in making Twain's manner
of speaking German an exhibit in the museum.
Regards,
John
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Gail Shaw wrote:
> "Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message
> news:47a2f325$1@news.povray.org...
>
>> To speak French, you have to actually speak in a
>> French accent, or nobody knows what you're saying. Which actually makes
>> sense, really...
>
> Try Thai. It's a tonal language. The same sounding word has different
> meanings if you say it with a high pitch, medium pitch, low pitch, rising or
> falling.
Chinese is the same way.
In other languages, saying a vowel in a word quickly or slowly changes
the meaning of the word. This is originally where short and long vowels
came from in English, but over the course of centuries of slow
alteration the short and long versions of each vowel acquired different
tonal qualities and lost the difference in actual length.
Regards,
John
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Gail Shaw wrote:
> Try Thai. It's a tonal language.
Same with Mandarin. I learned to say "My aunt scolded my mother's
horse". It's "ma ma ma ma".
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
On what day did God create the body thetans?
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Darren New wrote:
> Same with Mandarin. I learned to say "My aunt scolded my mother's
> horse". It's "ma ma ma ma".
Is that why it's called "mandarin"? ;-)
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Alain wrote:
>> Hmm. I've just spent several hours translating every naughty phrase I
>> can think of from English to French. Damn, this has got to the the
>> silliest thing I've done in a long, *long* time... ;-)
>>
>> Je me demande, cela fait un sens?
>>
> Absolument!
> Can you post some of those?
OK, you asked for it... ;-)
* Vous avez très gros seins.
* J'adore vos yeux.
* Je tiens à vous faire nu.
* Puis-je AVC votre vagin?
* Puis-je mettre cela en vous?
* Pouvez-vous enlever ma virginité pour moi s’il vous plaît?
* Puis-je prendre une photo?
* Vous sonore agréable.
* Vous goût agréable.
* Vous êtes très confortable.
* Nous devons le faire encore quelque temps!
I *said* it was childish, no? :-S
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Orchid XP v7 a écrit :
> Alain wrote:
>> Can you post some of those?
>
> OK, you asked for it... ;-)
>
Now you could try to do the reverse, make Google translate each of these
sentences and see if it still makes sense in English :-)
FYI, these do not make any sense in French:
> * Vous sonore agréable.
> * Vous goût agréable.
> * Je tiens à vous faire nu.
> * Puis-je AVC votre vagin?
I'm especially puzzled by the last one... AVC?
There are other sentences that are correct but not what you would say in
French. But at least they make sense.
--
Vincent
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Vincent Le Chevalier wrote:
> Now you could try to do the reverse, make Google translate each of these
> sentences and see if it still makes sense in English :-)
I do this anyway. ;-)
I discovered that various sentences subtly but significantly change
their meaning. For example, things like "I want to make you smile"
become "I want to smile", which is quite different. Seems Google has a
few glitches in there. (Apparently it's using statistics to decide what
to translate to. I did find a few sentences that Google was simply
unable to produce a decent translation for...)
> FYI, these do not make any sense in French:
>
>> * Vous sonore agréable.
>> * Vous goût agréable.
>> * Je tiens à vous faire nu.
>> * Puis-je AVC votre vagin?
>
> I'm especially puzzled by the last one... AVC?
Yeah, I was wondering about that...
> There are other sentences that are correct but not what you would say in
> French. But at least they make sense.
LOL! Sense enough to get a black eye anyway...
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Vincent Le Chevalier <gal### [at] libertyALLsurfSPAMfr> wrote:
> Orchid XP v7 a écrit :
> > * Puis-je AVC votre vagin?
>
> I'm especially puzzled by the last one... AVC?
I'm more puzzled by the mention of the female sexual organ... :)
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nemesis wrote:
> I'm more puzzled by the mention of the female sexual organ... :)
Erm... I think we kinda covered that one already? ;-) Scroll up:
Orchid XP v7 wrote:
> Hmm. I've just spent several hours translating every naughty phrase
> I can think of from English to French. Damn, this has got to the the
> silliest thing I've done in a long, *long* time... ;-)
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Orchid XP v7 wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>
>> Same with Mandarin. I learned to say "My aunt scolded my mother's
>> horse". It's "ma ma ma ma".
>
> Is that why it's called "mandarin"? ;-)
No. (Yes, I know it's a joke.) "Da" is big. "Ren" (or "rin") is man.
"Man" is an area of china. So "mandarin" is the "important (big) people
from the Man area".
I always amuse my wife when we go in a chinese restaurant and I write
"big man" (Da-ren) on the waiting list. Of course, it's the only version
of the characters pronounced that way that's simple enough for me to
remember how to "spell".
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
On what day did God create the body thetans?
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Darren New wrote:
> I always amuse my wife when we go in a chinese restaurant and I write
> "big man" (Da-ren) on the waiting list. Of course, it's the only version
> of the characters pronounced that way that's simple enough for me to
> remember how to "spell".
My last girlfriend [Jesus that was a long time ago...] had several
tattoes on various parts of her body. [I paid for one of them!] For
example, she had a couple of characters tattoed to the back of her leg
which evidently mean "hard and strong".
But that's the part that gets me thinking... how do *we* know that's
what it means? I mean, the *shop* says that's what it means. But for all
we know, maybe she's actually walking around with "I am a dork" tattoed
to her leg? [Which, actually, would be kinda appropriate in her case...]
Just a thought. ;-)
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Orchid XP v7 wrote:
> But that's the part that gets me thinking... how do *we* know that's
> what it means?
I saw a picture of one that my police-man brother wanted translated,
found on someone they'd arrested or something. It said "Trust no money",
according to my wife.
It took us a while to figure out he's asked for "trust no-one" and got
"trust no yuan" instead.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
On what day did God create the body thetans?
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Darren New wrote:
> It took us a while to figure out he's asked for "trust no-one" and got
> "trust no yuan" instead.
Well he's gettin a tattoe,
Yeah, he's gettin ink done.
He asked for a thirteen,
But they drew a thirty one...
[Name it! >:-D ]
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Invisible wrote:
>
> Hmm. I've just spent several hours translating every naughty phrase I
> can think of from English to French. Damn, this has got to the the
> silliest thing I've done in a long, *long* time... ;-)
>
> Je me demande, cela fait un sens?
>
My favorite Japanese phrase book is actually just that. It starts with
how to order a beer, progresses through how to pick up a date at the
bar, and ends with how to accept or turn down a marriage proposal. With
all the other good phrases in between.
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>> Je me demande, cela fait un sens?
>
> My favorite Japanese phrase book is actually just that. It starts with
> how to order a beer, progresses through how to pick up a date at the
> bar, and ends with how to accept or turn down a marriage proposal. With
> all the other good phrases in between.
Wow... LOL!
Do they have such a book for English? ;-)
I do recall somebody made a website featuring translations of the phrase
"My God, there's an axe in my head!" into every concievable language.
(Including Tolkein Elvish, among others.)
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Orchid XP v7 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> >> Je me demande, cela fait un sens?
> >
> I do recall somebody made a website featuring translations of the phrase
> "My God, there's an axe in my head!" into every concievable language.
> (Including Tolkein Elvish, among others.)
Which would translate to:
"Guð minn góður, ég er með öxi í hausnum!"
in my tongue. ;-)
Hildur
>
> --
> http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
> http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Hildur K. wrote:
> Orchid XP v7 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>>>> Je me demande, cela fait un sens?
>
>> I do recall somebody made a website featuring translations of the phrase
>> "My God, there's an axe in my head!" into every concievable language.
>> (Including Tolkein Elvish, among others.)
>
> Which would translate to:
>
> "Guð minn góður, ég er með öxi í hausnum!"
>
> in my tongue. ;-)
>
Iceland?
( http://www.yamara.com/axe/ )
> Hildur
>
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andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> Hildur K. wrote:
> > Orchid XP v7 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> >>>> Je me demande, cela fait un sens?
> >
> >> I do recall somebody made a website featuring translations of the phrase
> >> "My God, there's an axe in my head!" into every concievable language.
> >> (Including Tolkein Elvish, among others.)
> >
> > Which would translate to:
> >
> > "Guð minn góður, ég er með öxi í hausnum!"
> >
> > in my tongue. ;-)
> >
> Iceland?
Yes, how did you guess?
>
> > Hildur
> >
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Hildur K. wrote:
> andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
>> Hildur K. wrote:
>>> Orchid XP v7 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>>>>>> Je me demande, cela fait un sens?
>>>> I do recall somebody made a website featuring translations of the phrase
>>>> "My God, there's an axe in my head!" into every concievable language.
>>>> (Including Tolkein Elvish, among others.)
>>> Which would translate to:
>>>
>>> "Guð minn góður, ég er með öxi í hausnum!"
>>>
>>> in my tongue. ;-)
>>>
>> Iceland?
>
> Yes, how did you guess?
>
ehh, pattern matching?
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> >>>
> >>> "Guð minn góður, ég er með öxi í hausnum!"
> >>>
> >>> in my tongue. ;-)
> >>>
> >> Iceland?
> >
> > Yes, how did you guess?
> >
> ehh, pattern matching?
Oh, the link, I didn´t see it the first time. Sorry :-/
What I wrote is not a 100% match but means the same. Which only proves that
there are always several ways to say the same thing in any lanuage.
This only makes it even more difficult for the rest of us to figure things out
when we don´t know all possible nuances of a language. And which also makes
on-line translators necessary but usually not very helpful.
Like a simple news headline: "Bush and Sharon met in Washington" translates to
"A shrub and a piece of broken flower pot met in the laundry".
Makes you wonder... a lot.
So I stick to what I know, English or Scandinavian web pages and I´m not even
trying to read the German or French or Spanish or worse. Not even the
translated versions, even though I can make out some of the words on my own. (I
did learn some basic French and Spanish at high school years back and German
isn´t very far from the Scandinavian).
By the way, in my language we have a single word to describe "a piece of broken
flower pot", -pottbrot-, I just can´t think of a single word to describe that
in English. Is there one? Like "a piece of broken glass" translates -glerbrot-
the same way ;-)
???
Hildur
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And lo on Mon, 04 Feb 2008 01:46:32 -0000, Hildur K.
<hil### [at] 3dcafemailevery1net> did spake, saying:
>
>> >>>
>> >>> "Guð minn góður, ég er með öxi í hausnum!"
>> >>>
>> >>> in my tongue. ;-)
>> >>>
>> >> Iceland?
>> >
>> > Yes, how did you guess?
>> >
>> ehh, pattern matching?
>
> Oh, the link, I didn´t see it the first time. Sorry :-/
>
> What I wrote is not a 100% match but means the same. Which only proves
> that
> there are always several ways to say the same thing in any lanuage.
>
> This only makes it even more difficult for the rest of us to figure
> things out
> when we don´t know all possible nuances of a language. And which also
> makes
> on-line translators necessary but usually not very helpful.
>
> Like a simple news headline: "Bush and Sharon met in Washington"
> translates to
> "A shrub and a piece of broken flower pot met in the laundry".
>
> Makes you wonder... a lot.
No doubt it would have been a more productive meeting.
> By the way, in my language we have a single word to describe "a piece of
> broken flower pot", -pottbrot-,
Which reads to me as Pot Broke, just shows where a fair chunk of English
is derived from.
> I just can´t think of a single word to describe that in English. Is
> there one? Like "a piece of broken glass" translates -glerbrot-the same
> way ;-)
Potshard; it's a special case though as you don't have glassshard. You
could have glass-shard though etc. but it's normally unhyphenated.
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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"Phil Cook" <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
> And lo on Mon, 04 Feb 2008 01:46:32 -0000, Hildur K.
> <hil### [at] 3dcafemailevery1net> did spake, saying:
>
> Potshard; it's a special case though as you don't have glassshard. You
> could have glass-shard though etc. but it's normally unhyphenated.
>
Thanks :-) Always trying to add to my vocabulary.
Hildur
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And lo on Mon, 04 Feb 2008 14:16:25 -0000, Hildur K.
<hil### [at] 3dcafemailevery1net> did spake, saying:
> "Phil Cook" <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
>> And lo on Mon, 04 Feb 2008 01:46:32 -0000, Hildur K.
>> <hil### [at] 3dcafemailevery1net> did spake, saying:
>>
>
>> Potshard; it's a special case though as you don't have glassshard. You
>> could have glass-shard though etc. but it's normally unhyphenated.
>>
> Thanks :-) Always trying to add to my vocabulary.
or Potsherd. In archaelogy a sherd is a part of a broken pot and a shard
is part of broken glass, but you can still have a potshard. Got to love
this language.
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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>
> or Potsherd. In archaelogy a sherd is a part of a broken pot and a shard
> is part of broken glass, but you can still have a potshard. Got to love
> this language.
Aha, this explains it. The translator couldn´t figure out Sharon so, instead of
leaving the space blank, it simply picked the first word starting with s-h-a-r
which is shard! It could just as well have been -share- or -sharp-
or my favorite: -shark-!
No wonder I´m sometimes confused about translations.
I remember -trying- to read an article, -presumably- about 3D art, translated
from French to English. The translation kept on repeating that everything was
-gold-, over and over again. Very confusing. Obviously this was not to be taken
literally in this context.
This lead me to the conclusion that -gold- (d´or?) must be used in a specific
expression in French, meaning -great- or -best- maybe? Does this ring a bell
with any of you fluent French speaking people?
Hildur
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Hildur K. wrote:
> I remember -trying- to read an article, -presumably- about 3D art, translated
> from French to English. The translation kept on repeating that everything was
> -gold-, over and over again. Very confusing. Obviously this was not to be taken
> literally in this context.
>
> This lead me to the conclusion that -gold- (d´or?) must be used in a specific
> expression in French, meaning -great- or -best- maybe? Does this ring a bell
> with any of you fluent French speaking people?
As far as I know it is not any more common in French than in English.
Indeed it has this meaning of "greatest" or "best", for example golden
ratio in English translates as "le nombre d'or" (golden number) in French.
There might be cases that differ between both languages. For instance we
have "un livre d'or", wich translates as "a guestbook" in English. I'm
sure the reverse also exists...
--
Vincent
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And lo on Mon, 04 Feb 2008 22:10:24 -0000, Vincent Le Chevalier
<gal### [at] libertyALLsurfSPAMfr> did spake, saying:
> Hildur K. wrote:
>> I remember -trying- to read an article, -presumably- about 3D art,
>> translated
>> from French to English. The translation kept on repeating that
>> everything was
>> -gold-, over and over again. Very confusing. Obviously this was not to
>> be taken
>> literally in this context.
>> This lead me to the conclusion that -gold- (d´or?) must be used in a
>> specific
>> expression in French, meaning -great- or -best- maybe? Does this ring a
>> bell
>> with any of you fluent French speaking people?
>
> As far as I know it is not any more common in French than in English.
> Indeed it has this meaning of "greatest" or "best", for example golden
> ratio in English translates as "le nombre d'or" (golden number) in
> French.
>
> There might be cases that differ between both languages. For instance we
> have "un livre d'or", wich translates as "a guestbook" in English.
At one time was the guestbook (or equivalent) important enough to be
covered in gold leaf?
> I'm sure the reverse also exists...
I was reading a book which mentioned that bureaucracy is the obvious
combination of bureau and -cracy. Now -cracy roughly means 'ruled by' and
bureau is a desk; except that got its name from the *woolen cloth* used to
cover the desks of important people. So the literal translation of
bureaucracy is 'ruled by woolen cloth' or as the book put in 'ruled by
green baize'.
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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Phil Cook wrote:
> I was reading a book which mentioned that bureaucracy is the obvious
> combination of bureau and -cracy. Now -cracy roughly means 'ruled by'
> and bureau is a desk; except that got its name from the *woolen cloth*
> used to cover the desks of important people. So the literal translation
> of bureaucracy is 'ruled by woolen cloth' or as the book put in 'ruled
> by green baize'.
Bureau is also 'office' in French, and I always thought that meaning
came first, as the type of desk referred to in English is like a really
compact office. Chicken or egg? :-)
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And lo on Tue, 05 Feb 2008 10:21:34 -0000, Bill Pragnell
<bil### [at] hotmailcom> did spake, saying:
> Phil Cook wrote:
>> I was reading a book which mentioned that bureaucracy is the obvious
>> combination of bureau and -cracy. Now -cracy roughly means 'ruled by'
>> and bureau is a desk; except that got its name from the *woolen cloth*
>> used to cover the desks of important people. So the literal translation
>> of bureaucracy is 'ruled by woolen cloth' or as the book put in 'ruled
>> by green baize'.
>
> Bureau is also 'office' in French, and I always thought that meaning
> came first, as the type of desk referred to in English is like a really
> compact office. Chicken or egg? :-)
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Bureau states the origin as "burel"
a coarse woolen cloth etc.
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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Phil Cook wrote:
> And lo on Tue, 05 Feb 2008 10:21:34 -0000, Bill Pragnell
> <bil### [at] hotmailcom> did spake, saying:
>
>> Phil Cook wrote:
>>> I was reading a book which mentioned that bureaucracy is the obvious
>>> combination of bureau and -cracy. Now -cracy roughly means 'ruled by'
>>> and bureau is a desk; except that got its name from the *woolen
>>> cloth* used to cover the desks of important people. So the literal
>>> translation of bureaucracy is 'ruled by woolen cloth' or as the book
>>> put in 'ruled by green baize'.
>>
>> Bureau is also 'office' in French, and I always thought that meaning
>> came first, as the type of desk referred to in English is like a
>> really compact office. Chicken or egg? :-)
>
> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Bureau states the origin as
> "burel" a coarse woolen cloth etc.
Interesting. Etymology is indeed a tangled web of upholstery.
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"Phil Cook" <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
> And lo on Tue, 05 Feb 2008 10:21:34 -0000, Bill Pragnell
> <bil### [at] hotmailcom> did spake, saying:
>
> > Phil Cook wrote:
> >> I was reading a book which mentioned that bureaucracy is the obvious
> >> combination of bureau and -cracy. Now -cracy roughly means 'ruled by'
> >> and bureau is a desk; except that got its name from the *woolen cloth*
> >> used to cover the desks of important people. So the literal translation
> >> of bureaucracy is 'ruled by woolen cloth' or as the book put in 'ruled
> >> by green baize'.
Here is another completely different explanation:
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/-cracy
Hildur
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I have to celebrate, today I´ve learned a bunch of new English expressions:
Forget about bureaucracy! Forget about democracy!
There are so many much more interesting alternatives:
How about kleptocracy, or mobocracy perhaps? There is even pornocracy to suit
everybody´s taste or need.
I´d personally go for:
Xerocracy (zee-ROK-ruh-see) is the idea of "rule through photocopying". It is a
form of anarchic organization.
The word was coined to describe the organizational principle of Critical Mass,
and it is used almost exclusively within that context. The word is intended to
combine the ideas of freedom from bureaucracy and freedom to photocopy. Unlike
a hierarchical organization, nobody is in charge structurally because everyone
is free to make photocopies of their ideas and pass them around.
Got to love the English language. It´s so... versatile.
Hildur
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And lo on Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:56:28 -0000, Hildur K.
<hil### [at] 3dcafemailevery1net> did spake, saying:
>
>
> I have to celebrate, today I´ve learned a bunch of new English
> expressions:
>
> Forget about bureaucracy! Forget about democracy!
At times I wish we would :-)
> There are so many much more interesting alternatives:
>
> How about kleptocracy, or mobocracy perhaps? There is even pornocracy to
> suit everybody´s taste or need.
>
> I´d personally go for:
>
> Xerocracy (zee-ROK-ruh-see) is the idea of "rule through photocopying".
> It is a form of anarchic organization.
And make note of that "anarchic" you just used; an-archy. So Xerocracy is
rule through photocopiers whereas Xeroarchy is where you're ruled by a
photocopier.
> Got to love the English language. It´s so... versatile.
Especially since those terms are either Latin or Ancient Greek :-) We do
like grabbing words from other languages and adding them to our own in a
unique way. It helps that our own 'default' language is such a hodge-podge
of other languages.
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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"Phil Cook" <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
> And lo on Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:56:28 -0000, Hildur K.
> <hil### [at] 3dcafemailevery1net> did spake, saying:
> And make note of that "anarchic" you just used; an-archy. So Xerocracy is
> rule through photocopiers whereas Xeroarchy is where you're ruled by a
> photocopier.
Good point. Thanks for pointing that one out for me. Never thought about the
difference between -cracy and -archy. It´s subtle but the way you put it, it
becomes quite clear.
> Especially since those terms are either Latin or Ancient Greek :-) We do
> like grabbing words from other languages and adding them to our own in a
> unique way. It helps that our own 'default' language is such a hodge-podge
> of other languages.
Yes, I did learn some Latin, but I skipped Greek, had Spanish instead. Maybe
that was a mistake.. don´t know.
I think I remember correctly they told us that about 52% of the English language
is inherited (partly through French) from Latin and Greek and the rest is
Germanic. My language is mostly Germanic, so those 48% are rather easy to
figure out. But those 52% can be a drag. I spent years and years with the old
faithful Oxford dictionary by my side. Do you have any idea how many words
start with con- in that dictionary? Thank god for on-line dictionaries. They
are life-(and time-) savers :-)
Hildur
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And lo on Wed, 06 Feb 2008 18:30:01 -0000, Hildur K.
<hil### [at] 3dcafemailevery1net> did spake, saying:
> "Phil Cook" <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
>> And lo on Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:56:28 -0000, Hildur K.
>> <hil### [at] 3dcafemailevery1net> did spake, saying:
>
>
>> And make note of that "anarchic" you just used; an-archy. So Xerocracy
>> is
>> rule through photocopiers whereas Xeroarchy is where you're ruled by a
>> photocopier.
>
> Good point. Thanks for pointing that one out for me. Never thought about
> the difference between -cracy and -archy. It´s subtle but the way you
> put it, it becomes quite clear.
Though the meaning in common usage has become blurred which is
understandable. Some words drop out of use or are subsumed into others I
think I've mentioned somewhere my use of the word manufactory, which a
collegue didn't believe was a real word; it's been replaced by the
all-purpose "factory" instead.
>> Especially since those terms are either Latin or Ancient Greek :-) We do
>> like grabbing words from other languages and adding them to our own in a
>> unique way. It helps that our own 'default' language is such a
>> hodge-podge of other languages.
Did you like hodge-podge? I could have used mish-mash instead.
> Yes, I did learn some Latin, but I skipped Greek, had Spanish instead.
> Maybe that was a mistake.. don´t know.
Except the number of people in this country who learn either Greek or
Latin is prevalent only for public (paying) schools, lawyers and doctors.
If you're learning English as a non-native language it might help to
puzzle out the meaning of some words.
> I think I remember correctly they told us that about 52% of the English
> language
> is inherited (partly through French) from Latin and Greek and the rest is
> Germanic.
Which in theory should make the British all polyglots except we aren't. I
could point to the fact we're a bunch of xenophobic islanders, but I hope
the real reason is due to the differences in the underlying structure of
our language. We can thank the Normans in the 11th century for not
imposing their language on the commoners, so English evolved bottom-up
rather then top-down and things like la le tu vous and suffixes were
dropped or simplified.
Don't get me wrong we've still got some strangness and some words have
special cases (the plural of mouse is not mouses but mice, the plural of
sheep is sheep and not sheeps) and spelling is horrendous compared to
speech thanks to both The Great Vowel Shift and regional dialects. For
example for most words the past tense use it to add -ed, so own and owned,
but then you have keep and kept because the -ed and -t sound the same and
that's just how they got written down. I'm not even going to mention win
and won :-)
> My language is mostly Germanic, so those 48% are rather easy to figure
> out. But those 52% can be a drag. I spent years and years with the old
> faithful Oxford dictionary by my side. Do you have any idea how many
> words start with con- in that dictionary?
Or com-, again why is it im-possible rather then un-possible or even
in-possible they're perfectly logical constructs; they just sound wrong.
> Thank god for on-line dictionaries. They are life-(and time-) savers :-)
Oh yes except the ones that insist in refering to American-English as
English :-P
To quote the great Buffy when instructing Giles
Buffy: "Speak English, not whatever they speak in, um...."
Giles: "England?"
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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