I just received a series of job offers from Sony Pictures. Since I'm not a 
CG developer I'm not interested but possibly some folks here (Rune, Warp 
etc.) could be "good fits" as Tiffany says.

G.

----------------------------------------

I work for Sony Pictures.  I found your contact information while searching 
the web for Ray Tracers.  I don't know if you are looking for a new 
opportunity, or maybe you know someone else that might be.  But I thought 
I'd forward our job openings to you.  If you, or someone you know, may be a 
good fit, please feel free to contact me directly at
therrington at imageworks.com


Tiffany Herrington
Recruiter
Sony Imageworks

Graphics Software Developer - Katana
We are seeking a smart, motivated and versatile graphics software developer 
to work on our revolutionary in-house lighting and compositing package. 
Katana has been used to render characters, environments and effects for 
blockbuster movies like Spider-Man 3, Beowulf and Surf's Up.
You will be working with a team of experienced and surprisingly attractive 
individuals who will help you reach your ultimate potential. 
Responsibilities include working closely with production to develop 
cutting-edge features and responding quickly to user feedback through weekly 
releases of the application.
We value experience, but will consider newbies with a passion for:
    * Image processing
    * Python programming
    * GUI programming
    * OpenGL and 3D math
    * C/C++ programming and Linux
    * Parallel programming and high-performance computing
Imageworks offers the innovative freedom of a startup with the stability of 
a large, profitable and growing movie studio. You will share a hard working, 
fun atmosphere of creativity with other talented software developers, 
graphics researchers, artists, animators and story tellers.
Please send your resume to swjobs at imageworks.com
Sony Pictures Entertainment is an EO/AA employer.

Senior Software Engineer Rendering/Raytracing
We are seeking a motivated and versatile graphics software developer to join 
the Sony Imageworks Rendering R&D team. You will be working with a group of 
experienced developers with strong ties to the ray-tracing research 
community.
You will help us improve and maintain existing features of the renderer that 
was used to render movies like Monster House, Surf's Up and Beowulf. In 
addition, you will research and implement next generation production 
raytracing algorithms to improve performance.
We are looking for experienced developers with a passion for:
    * raytracing and rendering (Prman, Mental Ray, Gelato etc)
    * C/C++ programming
    * Parallel programming and high-performance computing
Imageworks offers the innovative freedom of a startup with the stability of 
a large, profitable and growing movie studio. You will share a hard working, 
fun atmosphere of creativity with other talented software developers, 
graphics researchers, artists, animators and story tellers.
Please send your resume to swjobs at mageworks.com
Sony Pictures Entertainment is an EO/AA employer.

Graphics Software Developer
Sony Pictures Imageworks, an Academy Award winning digital production 
studio, is seeking a software developer to design and maintain 3d graphics 
software for modeling and animation.
Required Skills:
    * C/C++
    * Linux (RedHat/Centos)
    * 3d graphics math
    * OpenGL and graphics cards
Desirable skills:
    * Python programming
    * Knowledge of Maya API, Houdini
    * GUI programming (eg Qt/!PyQt)
Imageworks offers the innovative freedom of a startup with the stability of 
a large, profitable and growing movie studio. You will share a hard working, 
fun atmosphere of creativity with other talented software developers, 
graphics researchers, artists, animators and story tellers.
Please send your resume to swjobs at imageworks.com
Sony Pictures Entertainment is an EO/AA employer.

Motion Capture and Image Processing Developer
Sony Pictures Imageworks, an Academy Award winning digital production 
studio, is seeking a software developer to develop algorithms, tools and 
application interfacing for motion capture and computer vision.
Required Skills:
    * C/C++
    * Fundamentals of computer vision
    * Image and signal processing
Desirable skills:
    * Python programming
    * Knowledge of Maya API, DIVA and Blade
    * Matlab
Imageworks offers the innovative freedom of a startup with the stability of 
a large, profitable and growing movie studio. You will share a hard working, 
fun atmosphere of creativity with other talented software developers, 
graphics researchers, artists, animators and story tellers.
Please send your resume to swjobs at imageworks.com
Sony Pictures Entertainment is an EO/AA employer.

-- 
**********************
http://www.oyonale.com
**********************
- Graphic experiments
- POV-Ray and Poser computer images
- Posters

Post a reply to this message

Gilles Tran <gitran_nospam_@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> Required Skills:
>     * C/C++
>     * Linux (RedHat/Centos)
>     * 3d graphics math
>     * OpenGL and graphics cards

  That's a very tempting job offer, but such job offers always crash
because of one thing: They require fluent spoken English skills and good
communication skills.

  I can understand spoken and written English perfectly, and I can write
English quite fluently, but I can't speak English fluently. This is something
which would get improved very fast if I was forced to speak in English in
an English-only country. I estimate that in 3-4 months I would be able to
speak English quite fluently. However, this doesn't help in interviews.

  I have already been turned down from a software developer job at Ubisoft
because of this. I would have otherwise been more than qualified. (I know
this because I had a friend working there and he told me this, past the
official explanations.)

  Of course that was just one case, and other companies may be more
understanding. However, such job usually requires moving abroad, which
is always a huge change in life. It's not something one would do quite
lightly.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

On 31 Jan 2008 05:31:14 -0500, Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:

>
>  Of course that was just one case, and other companies may be more
>understanding. However, such job usually requires moving abroad, which
>is always a huge change in life. It's not something one would do quite
>lightly.

I beg to differ. It should be done quite lightly, with a glad heart. Of course
if you have dependants that is another thing. :)
I bet your oral English would be perfectly good in a few weeks. Your written
English is so good as is your understanding of colloquialisms


Regards
	Stephen

Post a reply to this message

"Gilles Tran" <gitran_nospam_@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> I work for Sony Pictures.  I found your contact information while searching
> the web for Ray Tracers.  I don't know if you are looking for a new
> opportunity, or maybe you know someone else that might be.  But I thought
> I'd forward our job openings to you.  If you, or someone you know, may be a
> good fit, please feel free to contact me directly at
> therrington at imageworks.com

oh, great!  Now they take away povray developers and contributors and its 5 more
years until 3.7 release! :P

Post a reply to this message

On 31 Jan 2008 05:31:14 -0500, Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:

>  I can understand spoken and written English perfectly, and I can write
>English quite fluently, but I can't speak English fluently. 

It surprises me that you can't speak English fluently.  It's definitely not reflected
in you writing skills.

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 06:15:33 EST, "nemesis" <nam### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

>
>oh, great!  Now they take away povray developers and contributors and its 5 more
>years until 3.7 release! :P
>

That was my thought, exactly.

Post a reply to this message

"nemesis" <nam### [at] gmailcom> wrote in message 
news:web.47a1add552919f3b28552b650@news.povray.org...
> "Gilles Tran" <gitran_nospam_@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>> I work for Sony Pictures.  I found your contact information while 
>> searching
>> the web for Ray Tracers.  I don't know if you are looking for a new
>> opportunity, or maybe you know someone else that might be.  But I thought
>> I'd forward our job openings to you.  If you, or someone you know, may be 
>> a
>> good fit, please feel free to contact me directly at
>> therrington at imageworks.com
>
> oh, great!  Now they take away povray developers and contributors and its 
> 5 more
> years until 3.7 release! :P
>
and what about Pov-Ray 4.0...?  :S


-- 
-Nekar Xenos-

Post a reply to this message

nemesis wrote:

> oh, great!  Now they take away povray developers and contributors and its 5 more
> years until 3.7 release! :P

Isn't this the same Sony who inflicted several million people with a 
rootkit-based DRM "solution"?

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:

>
>   I can understand spoken and written English perfectly, and I can write
> English quite fluently, but I can't speak English fluently. ...
>                                                           - Warp


I understand all to well what you mean.  When working in a language that one
does not speak on a daily basis, having that extra time that reading and
writing provides in contrast to listening and speaking can make all the
difference, even if it's just a few moments that one needs to reflect and
focus.  If the opportunity is otherwise of genuine interest to you, I would
advise sending a written expression of interest in which you briefly summarize
your background and set forth the potential issue with spoken English just as
you have here.  Not that I can readily place myself in the position of a
Dreamworks executive, but if I were doing the hiring, I would place a much
higher positive value on an applicant's honesty and forthrightness than the
very small negative value attached to having to spend a few months getting up
to speed on spoken communication. As cliché as this sounds, what have you got
to lose?

Best Regards,
Mike C.

Post a reply to this message

"Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> a écrit dans le message de news: 
47a1a372@news.povray.org...
> Gilles Tran <gitran_nospam_@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>> Required Skills:
>>     * C/C++
>>     * Linux (RedHat/Centos)
>>     * 3d graphics math
>>     * OpenGL and graphics cards
>
>  That's a very tempting job offer, but such job offers always crash
> because of one thing: They require fluent spoken English skills and good
> communication skills.

These Hollywood FX houses are full of French people who aren't known for 
their language skills, so it may worth a try anyway ;)
Moving abroad is more a problem of course. OTOH if you're without a 
significant other and kids (or aging parents), you can still easily go home 
if it doesn't work out.

G.

-- 
*****************************
http://www.oyonale.com
*****************************
- Graphic experiments
- POV-Ray, Cinema 4D and Poser computer images
- Posters

Post a reply to this message

Kyle <hob### [at] gatenet> wrote:
> It surprises me that you can't speak English fluently.  It's definitely not
reflected in you writing skills.

  Writing something is easy because you don't have to think how it's
pronounced. Also, when writing you can stop to think how to say something
and you can go back and write something better and correct mistakes.
If I don't remember some term I can go and look it in the dictionary or
search the internet for it. Moreover, you can re-read what you have
written before sending it.

  When speaking you have to produce something fluent and comprehensible in
real-time, and you can't go back and fix a mistake or rewrite a sentence
in a better way, and you can't go and consult the dictionary or the internet
for a term you don't remember right now. What is worse, when speaking there
are more things which can go wrong than when writing, most prominently your
pronounciation. The worst case is when you simply don't know (or can't
remember) how to pronounce something, even if your sentence would otherwise
be completely fluent and good.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Gilles Tran <gil### [at] agroparistechfr> wrote:
> These Hollywood FX houses are full of French people who aren't known for 
> their language skills, so it may worth a try anyway ;)

  Well, the Ubisoft branch I was talking about was in Montreal, which is
probably the worst French-speaking area of the whole continent... :P

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> Isn't this the same Sony who inflicted several million people with a 
> rootkit-based DRM "solution"?

  AFAIK "Sony" is a conglomeration of several sub-companies, and the
several sub-companies can be quite independent of each other. The policies
of one sub-company might have nothing to do with the policies of another.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

>> Isn't this the same Sony who inflicted several million people with a 
>> rootkit-based DRM "solution"?
> 
>   AFAIK "Sony" is a conglomeration of several sub-companies, and the
> several sub-companies can be quite independent of each other. The policies
> of one sub-company might have nothing to do with the policies of another.

You may be right there.

I'm currently dealing with BT. Unfortunately, the guys who sell you the 
product, the guys who do the engineering work to provide it, the people 
who operate the network infrastructure, and the people who project 
manage the whole provisioning process are independant companies. 
(Altough they're all called "BT".) They also don't speak to each other 
in any way...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Warp escribió:
> Kyle <hob### [at] gatenet> wrote:
>> It surprises me that you can't speak English fluently.  It's definitely not
reflected in you writing skills.
> 
>   Writing something is easy because you don't have to think how it's
> pronounced. Also, when writing you can stop to think how to say something
> and you can go back and write something better and correct mistakes.
> If I don't remember some term I can go and look it in the dictionary or
> search the internet for it. Moreover, you can re-read what you have
> written before sending it.
> 
>   When speaking you have to produce something fluent and comprehensible in
> real-time, and you can't go back and fix a mistake or rewrite a sentence
> in a better way, and you can't go and consult the dictionary or the internet
> for a term you don't remember right now. What is worse, when speaking there
> are more things which can go wrong than when writing, most prominently your
> pronounciation. The worst case is when you simply don't know (or can't
> remember) how to pronounce something, even if your sentence would otherwise
> be completely fluent and good.
> 

Also, practice. You probably have more practice writing English than 
speaking English. (like me)

Post a reply to this message

Nicolas Alvarez escreveu:
> Warp escribió:
>> Kyle <hob### [at] gatenet> wrote:
>>> It surprises me that you can't speak English fluently.  It's 
>>> definitely not reflected in you writing skills.
>>
>>   Writing something is easy because you don't have to think how it's
>> pronounced. 
 >
> Also, practice. You probably have more practice writing English than 
> speaking English. (like me)

count me in.  Though contrary to Warp, I do write my messages as if I 
was speaking out loud.  And read as well.  Other than that, I'm much 
more of a silent guy, though very verbose at a keyboard... :P

Post a reply to this message

I have the same problem.

My written English is quite good, but my spoken English is very bad because 
I've never practised it intensively, like I have with my written English.

I'm under an everyday illusion that I understand spoken English fine. Here 
in Denmark we don't have voice overs for foreign movies and TV and while 
there *are* subtitles, the simultaneous exposure to the original language 
still works as practice, to the point that many people will notice if the 
words have been translated in an counterintuitive way. If subtitles are 
missing, I can still understand 98% of what is said just fine. However, my 
guess is that I don't understand native English speakers very well at all. 
At least, that's what happened when I was in England many years ago. While 
you normally don't notice it, spoken English in movies is *far* better 
pronounced that how people talk in real life.

This is my biggest fear when I'm going to the Game Developers Conference in 
San Francisco in two weeks time: That I'll find myself utterly unable to 
understand what most people are saying except if they speak slow and clearly 
to me, and that I'll sound like I'm bad at communicating due to lack of 
practise with speaking the language...

Rune
-- 
http://runevision.com

Post a reply to this message

"Rune" <aut### [at] runevisioncom> wrote:
> I have the same problem.
....
>
> This is my biggest fear when I'm going to the Game Developers Conference in
> San Francisco in two weeks time: That I'll find myself utterly unable to
> understand what most people are saying ...

> Rune
> --
> http://runevision.com

Dude, the good news is that you can understand approximately 70% of the speech
patterns of the typical native San Franciscan by mastering a single term.

The bad news is...
http://www.pitt.edu/%7Ekiesling/dude/dude.pdf

Like Best Regards, Dude

Mike C.

Post a reply to this message

"Mike the Elder" <SPELL: wrote:
> http://www.pitt.edu/%7Ekiesling/dude/dude.pdf

whoa!  and to think I learned the term from the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles...
:)

Post a reply to this message

nemesis wrote:
> "Mike the Elder" <SPELL: wrote:
>> http://www.pitt.edu/%7Ekiesling/dude/dude.pdf
> 
> whoa!  and to think I learned the term from the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles...
> :)

	Radical!

-- 
"A man doesn't know what happiness is until he's married. By then it's
too late." - Frank Sinatra


                    /\  /\               /\  /
                   /  \/  \ u e e n     /  \/  a w a z
                       >>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
                                   anl

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
> Gilles Tran <gitran_nospam_@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>> Required Skills:
>>     * C/C++
>>     * Linux (RedHat/Centos)
>>     * 3d graphics math
>>     * OpenGL and graphics cards
> 
>   That's a very tempting job offer, but such job offers always crash
> because of one thing: They require fluent spoken English skills and good
> communication skills.

	Are you saying they always *really* require it, or that they just *say*
they require it?

	I'd say try anyway. A lot of people over here hire folks with great
technical skills and poor verbal skills (and poor grammatical skills,
and often poor writing skills). I'm referring to a portion of the
foreign students here.

-- 
"A man doesn't know what happiness is until he's married. By then it's
too late." - Frank Sinatra


                    /\  /\               /\  /
                   /  \/  \ u e e n     /  \/  a w a z
                       >>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
                                   anl

Post a reply to this message

And lo on Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:43:13 -0000,  did spake, saying:

> Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
<snip>
> Best Regards,
> Mike C.

Just FYI showing up on Opera as a blank name probably because of this -

From: "Mike the Elder" <SPELL:

it don't like them thar pointy things.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:47:40 EST, "Mike the Elder" <SPELL: wrote:

>
>The bad news is...
>http://www.pitt.edu/%7Ekiesling/dude/dude.pdf

Thank you :)


Regards
	Stephen

Post a reply to this message

Attachments:
Download 'RuntimeError1.jpg' (11 KB)

Preview of image 'RuntimeError1.jpg'

"Phil Cook" <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
> And lo on Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:43:13 -0000,  did spake, saying:
>
> > Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> <snip>
> > Best Regards,
> > Mike C.
>
> Just FYI showing up on Opera as a blank name probably because of this -
>
> From: "Mike the Elder" <SPELL:
>
> it don't like them thar pointy things.
>
> --
> Phil Cook

I removed the whole thing to be sure the offending bit would go. I never typed a
"<", the site threw it in.  I believe it may have been the colon that caused the
problem.  I'll get around to creating a signature with a properly bot-proof
reference to my email eventually.  Thanks for the heads up.

Best Regards,
Mike C.

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
> I estimate that in 3-4 months I would be able to speak English quite fluently. 

It also helps tremendously if you have someone who *is* a native speaker 
actively helping you out, pointing out your mispronunciations and odd 
word choices and such, methinks. At least, that's my experience.

>   I have already been turned down from a software developer job at Ubisoft
> because of this. I would have otherwise been more than qualified.

That sucks. Sorry to hear that.

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     On what day did God create the body thetans?

Post a reply to this message

Mike the Elder wrote:
> Dude, the good news is that you can understand approximately 70% of the speech
> patterns of the typical native San Franciscan by mastering a single term.

Frighteningly true. :-)

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     On what day did God create the body thetans?

Post a reply to this message

Mueen Nawaz wrote:
> 	I'd say try anyway. A lot of people over here hire folks with great
> technical skills and poor verbal skills (and poor grammatical skills,
> and often poor writing skills). I'm referring to a portion of the
> foreign students here.

I don't know where "over here" is, but my experience in the USA is that 
most of the technical *and marketing* people here have poor grammatical 
and writing skills.

If you apply for the job, you might consider offering to take a couple 
weeks of private night classes to brush up on problem areas, if that's 
the sort of thing that would help.

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     On what day did God create the body thetans?

Post a reply to this message

On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 08:57:31 -0800, Darren New wrote:

> I don't know where "over here" is, but my experience in the USA is that
> most of the technical *and marketing* people here have poor grammatical
> and writing skills.

I have had a similar experience; it's amazing how many marketing people 
(in particular) can't spell or write a sentence that makes any sense.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Rune wrote:
> I have the same problem.
> 
> My written English is quite good, but my spoken English is very bad because 
> I've never practised it intensively, like I have with my written English.
> 
> I'm under an everyday illusion that I understand spoken English fine. Here 
> in Denmark we don't have voice overs for foreign movies and TV and while 
> there *are* subtitles, the simultaneous exposure to the original language 
> still works as practice, to the point that many people will notice if the 
> words have been translated in an counterintuitive way. If subtitles are 
> missing, I can still understand 98% of what is said just fine. However, my 
> guess is that I don't understand native English speakers very well at all. 
> At least, that's what happened when I was in England many years ago. While 
> you normally don't notice it, spoken English in movies is *far* better 
> pronounced that how people talk in real life.
> 
> This is my biggest fear when I'm going to the Game Developers Conference in 
> San Francisco in two weeks time: That I'll find myself utterly unable to 
> understand what most people are saying except if they speak slow and clearly 
> to me, and that I'll sound like I'm bad at communicating due to lack of 
> practise with speaking the language...
> 
Let me reassure you, you won't be able to understand most of it. Mainly 
because the majority will be freshly imported Asians with 1 or 2 years 
of experience in pronunciation in an environment of mostly non native 
Americans.

Post a reply to this message

Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> It also helps tremendously if you have someone who *is* a native speaker 
> actively helping you out, pointing out your mispronunciations and odd 
> word choices and such, methinks. At least, that's my experience.

  That's one HUGE problem, though. People are way too "polite" to comment
on your mistakes, even if it would benefit you a lot if the did.

  I have had more than one experience related to this just in writing.
I have written something consistently in the wrong way for *years* before
someone *finally* commented that it's wrong, after which I started writing
it correctly. In each case it exasperated me why nobody had said it to me
before. I can't know if I write something in the wrong way if nobody tells me.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> It also helps tremendously if you have someone who *is* a native speaker 
>> actively helping you out, pointing out your mispronunciations and odd 
>> word choices and such, methinks. At least, that's my experience.
> 
>   That's one HUGE problem, though. People are way too "polite" to comment
> on your mistakes, even if it would benefit you a lot if the did.

Yes. That's why I said they have to be actively helping out. For 
example, I spent about a week teaching my chinese now-wife the 
difference between "L" and "R" when we were first going out. We still 
joke about it, and she still occasionally calls me from work to find out 
what the right preposition to use in some sentence is. (Prepositions in 
English are completely random, as far as I can tell.)

A random stranger isn't going to take the time. If you wind up in a 
country with people who speak English well (not necessarily England or 
the USA, mind), and you wind up staying with someone at their house 
instead of in a hotel, say, asking the person to correct your english 
mistakes would definitely improve your skills much faster than waiting 
for strangers to volunteer it.

>   I have had more than one experience related to this just in writing.
> I have written something consistently in the wrong way for *years* before
> someone *finally* commented that it's wrong, after which I started writing
> it correctly. In each case it exasperated me why nobody had said it to me
> before. I can't know if I write something in the wrong way if nobody tells me.

Last night: "Why does my outlook always put the red squiggles under the 
word yestoday?"    "Because it's misspelled."   "I've been spelling it 
wrong for 20 years?"   "Seems that way."

Yeah, it happens. Your writing is virtually flawless to my eye. I don't 
even stumble over it as much as I have to re-read a lot of native 
english text I see.  I wish I could learn even a simple foreign language 
half as well as you've mastered english.

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     On what day did God create the body thetans?

Post a reply to this message

On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 04:04:22 -0500, Warp wrote:

> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> It also helps tremendously if you have someone who *is* a native
>> speaker actively helping you out, pointing out your mispronunciations
>> and odd word choices and such, methinks. At least, that's my
>> experience.
> 
>   That's one HUGE problem, though. People are way too "polite" to
>   comment
> on your mistakes, even if it would benefit you a lot if the did.
> 
>   I have had more than one experience related to this just in writing.
> I have written something consistently in the wrong way for *years*
> before someone *finally* commented that it's wrong, after which I
> started writing it correctly. In each case it exasperated me why nobody
> had said it to me before. I can't know if I write something in the wrong
> way if nobody tells me.

I've got a friend in Luxembourg who is in a similar situation; his 
written English is really good; but spoken, he's got a very thick accent 
and has to search for words and sometimes he finds the wrong word.

A few years ago, he started asking people to help him if he was saying 
things incorrectly - of course, the group we hang out in includes a 
couple of English pedants (language and nationality, come to think of 
it), so they're all too happy to help. :-)

The thing is, a lot of times you write things in ways that are 
understandable (so not incorrect), but somewhat convoluted.  For example, 
your last sentence here:

"I can't know if I write something in the wrong way if nobody tells me."

I find that perfectly clear, but an odd way of expressing the thought 
you're having.  What you're saying is "I can't know if I've written 
something incorrectly unless someone tells me".  Same meaning as what you 
wrote.  "In the wrong way" isn't something that most English speakers/
writers would use (at least not in my experience).  "Incorrectly" would 
be the word used instead.

Jim

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Jim Henderson wrote:
> I find that perfectly clear, but an odd way of expressing the thought 
> you're having. 

My wife already had a Masters in Computer Science before coming to the 
USA, and she learned a lot of English by studying the GREs. Early on, 
one day, she leaned over to me and said "Look at the sweater of the man 
with the sparsely distributed hair."   "The word is 'bald'."  "Oh, OK."

Just today, it was "do you need help to hoist the bicycle back onto the 
rack?" Perfectly correct, but way too sophisticated/educated a choice of 
words, at the same time.

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     On what day did God create the body thetans?

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On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 19:37:31 -0800, Darren New wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> I find that perfectly clear, but an odd way of expressing the thought
>> you're having.
> 
> My wife already had a Masters in Computer Science before coming to the
> USA, and she learned a lot of English by studying the GREs. Early on,
> one day, she leaned over to me and said "Look at the sweater of the man
> with the sparsely distributed hair."   "The word is 'bald'."  "Oh, OK."
> 
> Just today, it was "do you need help to hoist the bicycle back onto the
> rack?" Perfectly correct, but way too sophisticated/educated a choice of
> words, at the same time.

Yep - I have a few friends who are of Chinese/Taiwanese origins, and they 
also express things in this manner as well.

I'm sure my Spanish is, comparatively speaking, much worse. ;-)

Jim

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> USA, and she learned a lot of English by studying the GREs. Early on, 
> one day, she leaned over to me and said "Look at the sweater of the man 
> with the sparsely distributed hair."   "The word is 'bald'."  "Oh, OK."

  Perhaps she was just being politically correct? ;)

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Darren New wrote:
> My wife already had a Masters in Computer Science before coming to the
> USA, and she learned a lot of English by studying the GREs. Early on,
> one day, she leaned over to me and said "Look at the sweater of the man
> with the sparsely distributed hair."   "The word is 'bald'."  "Oh, OK."

	Don't exclude the possibility that she was being technical (I take it
she was in a PhD program once if she studied the GRE?). I've seen native
speakers sometimes speak that way in those circles.

	

-- 
Hard work pays off in the future. Laziness pays off now.


                    /\  /\               /\  /
                   /  \/  \ u e e n     /  \/  a w a z
                       >>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
                                   anl

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Mueen Nawaz wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>> My wife already had a Masters in Computer Science before coming to the
>> USA, and she learned a lot of English by studying the GREs. Early on,
>> one day, she leaned over to me and said "Look at the sweater of the man
>> with the sparsely distributed hair."   "The word is 'bald'."  "Oh, OK."
> 
> 	Don't exclude the possibility that she was being technical

No, she just didn't know the word "bald." :-)

> (I take it she was in a PhD program once if she studied the GRE?).

Two masters and a PhD, in two completely different languages. She's awesome.

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     On what day did God create the body thetans?

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