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On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 22:27:28 +0000, Orchid XP v7 wrote:
> Who said history is the *only* thing I suck at? I'm quite there's quite
> a long list there... :-/
Don't focus on what you suck at, focus on what you're GOOD at.
We all suck at a long laundry list of things. I suck as a comedian. I
suck at building nuclear reactors. I suck at history. I suck at talking
about old-time films with my wife. I suck at remembering names of people
I've met. I suck at freehand drawing. I suck at playing the accordion.
I suck at poker. I suck at keeping my desk uncluttered. I suck at
finishing a job I've started (go on, ask me how long we've been working
on this damned addition on our house, I *dare* you). I suck at
medicine. I suck at doing the laundry. I suck at washing the dishes. I
suck at scooping the cat poop out of the litter boxes. I suck at being
patient with our mean cat. I suck at wicker repair. I suck at masonry.
I suck at chemistry. I suck at physics. I suck at integral calculus.
I also apparently suck at giving advice. THAT DOESN'T MEAN I WILL STOP
TRYING!
(This list is not all-inclusive, by any means)
Jim
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Jim Henderson escribió:
> I suck at building nuclear reactors.
How can you say that if you never tried?
(or did you??)
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On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 22:11:31 -0200, Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> Jim Henderson escribió:
>> I suck at building nuclear reactors.
>
> How can you say that if you never tried?
>
> (or did you??)
I've got three friends who are PhD's in Nuclear Physics. But I wouldn't
even know where to begin in building a reactor (my point being that Andy
thinks he sucks at things he's never tried, and if that's the criteria,
then we all suck at even more things <g>)
Jim
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Nicolas Alvarez <nic### [at] gmail isthebestcom> wrote:
> Jim Henderson escribió:
> > I suck at building nuclear reactors.
>
> How can you say that if you never tried?
>
> (or did you??)
ever heard of Chernobyl? ;)
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On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:06:54 -0500, nemesis wrote:
> Nicolas Alvarez <nic### [at] gmailisthebestcom> wrote:
>> Jim Henderson escribió:
>> > I suck at building nuclear reactors.
>>
>> How can you say that if you never tried?
>>
>> (or did you??)
>
> ever heard of Chernobyl? ;)
Shhh! That's supposed to be a SECRET! ;-)
(Arguably, I've been in Kiev, but that was after Chernobyl happened)
Jim
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andrel wrote:
> There will always be statements that can not be proven within a
> set of axioms and theories.
The one part of this I've never figured out is...
Gödel[1] gave a *constructive* proof of this. That makes no sense to me.
How can you say something is unprovable if you can give a constructive
proof of how to generate that which you claim your formal system can't
generate?
It seems either you have to step outside the system to generate the
unprovable string, or the string really isn't unprovable within the
system and you're relying on intuition to "prove" it's unprovable.
Can someone clear that bit up for me?
[1] Yes, I bothered to fire up the non-English-character utility this
time. :-)
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
On what day did God create the body thetans?
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Vincent Le Chevalier wrote:
> Point being, officially there is only one sound "é" and one sound "è",
> and none of the numerous variants in English :-)
Maybe I'm misremembering. I thought é was always pronounced to rhyme
with "May" in English (altho of course without the long trailing off "y"
at the end that English has). I don't remember è in French, but then I
had to cheat to get D's in French class. Altho, surprisingly, I did
fairly well when I spent a month in Paris. Overall strange.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
On what day did God create the body thetans?
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andrel wrote:
> You mean that there are no dialects in France?
This is France, where they have government departments to outlaw saying
things like "le weekend". ;-)
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
On what day did God create the body thetans?
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Orchid XP v7 wrote:
> I'm pretty sure we've had this conversation before... It basically
> amounts to "I don't know where to start".
Cheap way: Read the news (while trying to gain the skill of what news
to read and what not to).
Expensive way: Travel.
--
Red ship hits blue ship ... sailors marooned.
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
anl
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>> I'm pretty sure we've had this conversation before... It basically
>> amounts to "I don't know where to start".
>
> Cheap way: Read the news (while trying to gain the skill of what news
> to read and what not to).
I never do this. The news is far too damn depressing.
> Expensive way: Travel.
I never did understand how travel is supposed to teach you anything.
(Other than how to feel lost and afraid - which I already know how to do.)
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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> (my point being that Andy
> thinks he sucks at things he's never tried, and if that's the criteria,
> then we all suck at even more things <g>)
By that definition, I suck at sex.
Which may or may not be true, IDK.
(Hmm... maybe "suck" is the wrong term...)
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:02:52 +0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>> (my point being that Andy
>> thinks he sucks at things he's never tried, and if that's the criteria,
>> then we all suck at even more things <g>)
>
>By that definition, I suck at sex.
>
>Which may or may not be true, IDK.
>
>(Hmm... maybe "suck" is the wrong term...)
At least you've still got your humour :)
Keep it up.
Regards
Stephen
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Darren New a écrit :
> andrel wrote:
>> You mean that there are no dialects in France?
>
> This is France, where they have government departments to outlaw saying
> things like "le weekend". ;-)
>
With a rather limited success, I should say :-D
--
Vincent
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Darren New a écrit :
> Vincent Le Chevalier wrote:
>> Point being, officially there is only one sound "é" and one sound "è",
>> and none of the numerous variants in English :-)
>
> Maybe I'm misremembering. I thought é was always pronounced to rhyme
> with "May" in English (altho of course without the long trailing off "y"
> at the end that English has). I don't remember è in French, but then I
> had to cheat to get D's in French class. Altho, surprisingly, I did
> fairly well when I spent a month in Paris. Overall strange.
>
"May" still sounds more open than the typical "é". But once again I
probably miss a good amount of nuance in my english pronunciation...
You can get away with "mistakes" like that pretty easily in everyday
life, though. Overall I think French is fairly forgiving on vowels
compared to English.
--
Vincent
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On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:01:51 +0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>>> I'm pretty sure we've had this conversation before... It basically
>>> amounts to "I don't know where to start".
>>
>> Cheap way: Read the news (while trying to gain the skill of what news
>> to read and what not to).
>
>I never do this. The news is far too damn depressing.
>
And lies (or is that BS or spin). I don't read much in the papers (deliberate
decision after working for a tabloid years ago) I listen to the radio where I've
a better chance of recognising BS.
>> Expensive way: Travel.
>
>I never did understand how travel is supposed to teach you anything.
>(Other than how to feel lost and afraid - which I already know how to do.)
It teaches you how to cope. You're story a few years ago about being invited to
the US office reminded me about my first trip abroad. 1974 and a week in Paris
for a training course. I was terrified about going, I could not speak French and
I would starve, get lost and make a fool of myself. My wife almost kicked me out
of the house to make me go. That experience changed my life, I found out what
food should taste like and I survived the travel.
It is not the actual travelling that broadens your mind but seeing that you can
do "hard" things. I still cannot speak any other language other than English but
I have travelled throughout Europe and other places, getting by, by looking at
people, speaking in a soft tone, smiling and pointing.
It has made me much more confident and a more interesting conversationalist (I
hope).
Some old codger's advice: When you are older it is the things that you've not
done that you regret not the things you have done.
Regards
Stephen
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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Can someone clear that bit up for me?
no. d o e s n o t c o m p l e t e....
;)
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Vincent Le Chevalier wrote:
> Darren New a écrit :
>> Vincent Le Chevalier wrote:
>>> Point being, officially there is only one sound "é" and one sound
>>> "è", and none of the numerous variants in English :-)
>>
>> Maybe I'm misremembering. I thought é was always pronounced to rhyme
>> with "May" in English (altho of course without the long trailing off
>> "y" at the end that English has). I don't remember è in French, but
>> then I had to cheat to get D's in French class. Altho, surprisingly, I
>> did fairly well when I spent a month in Paris. Overall strange.
>
> "May" still sounds more open than the typical "é". But once again I
> probably miss a good amount of nuance in my english pronunciation...
I'd concur. Imagine 'may' pronounced by a Londoner, and you're a very
long way from the French 'é'. Describing it as being on the spectrum
between 'ay' and 'ee' but 2/3 of the way towards 'ee' would be my best
guess!
B
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Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> > (my point being that Andy
> > thinks he sucks at things he's never tried, and if that's the criteria,
> > then we all suck at even more things <g>)
>
> By that definition, I suck at sex.
>
> Which may or may not be true, IDK.
>
> (Hmm... maybe "suck" is the wrong term...)
oh, man! you just made me blow some coffee from my nose! LOL...
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>> Which may or may not be true, IDK.
>>
>> (Hmm... maybe "suck" is the wrong term...)
>
> oh, man! you just made me blow some coffee from my nose! LOL...
Yays! I win!! :-D
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:01:51 +0000, Invisible wrote:
>> Cheap way: Read the news (while trying to gain the skill of what
news
>> to read and what not to).
>
> I never do this. The news is far too damn depressing.
That's why the skill of learning what to read and what not to is so
important to develop. Learning to filter is an important skill.
At the same time, I agree that the news is too depressing most of the
time - I don't watch news on TV, because usually it's a body count
followed by some human interest story about someone's dog. If I watch it
at all, it's to see what the weather's going to be like, but usually I'll
just read the forecasts online.
>> Expensive way: Travel.
>
> I never did understand how travel is supposed to teach you anything.
> (Other than how to feel lost and afraid - which I already know how to
> do.)
Going places and interacting with people teaches you about how people
behave. To avoid the feeling of being lost, get a GPS (when I would
travel to teach, I'd always get a GPS in the rental car - that way, I
could find places to go eat and not worry about being able to find my way
back to the hotel).
Depending on where you travel to, of course, you need to do some research
ahead of time to know where it's safe to go and where it's not safe to
go. Even when driving around some small towns, I'd pick places to go eat
and I'd drive past them before stopping to see if the area looked safe.
If it didn't (which happened on more than one occasion), I wouldn't stop.
"Travel" doesn't always have to be to faraway places, either. It's about
getting out and observing people, and then interacting with them.
Jim
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On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:02:52 +0000, Invisible wrote:
>> (my point being that Andy
>> thinks he sucks at things he's never tried, and if that's the criteria,
>> then we all suck at even more things <g>)
>
> By that definition, I suck at sex.
>
> Which may or may not be true, IDK.
Exactly my point.
> (Hmm... maybe "suck" is the wrong term...)
LOL!
Jim
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>> I never did understand how travel is supposed to teach you anything.
>> (Other than how to feel lost and afraid - which I already know how to
>> do.)
>
> Going places and interacting with people teaches you about how people
> behave.
Interesting. IME, "travel" involves sitting in a moving vehicle for
hours feeling bored and uncomfortable. And let's put it this way: I
can't interact with people who speak my own language. How am I supposed
to get anywhere with people who don't even know what I'm saying?
(I was about to add "and probably don't like me", but then I remembered
that that's normal anyway...)
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:33:38 +0000, Invisible wrote:
>>> I never did understand how travel is supposed to teach you anything.
>>> (Other than how to feel lost and afraid - which I already know how to
>>> do.)
>>
>> Going places and interacting with people teaches you about how people
>> behave.
>
> Interesting. IME, "travel" involves sitting in a moving vehicle for
> hours feeling bored and uncomfortable. And let's put it this way: I
> can't interact with people who speak my own language. How am I supposed
> to get anywhere with people who don't even know what I'm saying?
English is understood in many parts of the world. I was in Barcelona a
few years back, and thought I'd demonstrate my skills by speaking
Spanish. You know what? They don't speak Spanish in Barcelona - they
speak Catalan, which is a hybrid variant of Spanish and French.
I still managed to communicate effectively enough to find what I was
looking for.
Similarly, when I was in Russia, I managed to get by just fine, even in
situations where the person I was talking to spoke no English at all -
and I don't speak Russian. If anything, in many foreign countries,
people are more forgiving if you (a) make an effort to try to say
something in their language, and (b) often times will take advantage of
the opportunity to practice their English skills, which very frequently
are very good.
I evaluate prospective instructors in English; I've evaluated instructors
from Pakistan, most of Europe, Latin America, South America, and I've got
one next month from China. I've been very impressed at how well most of
them speak English, given it's a second language for them.
> (I was about to add "and probably don't like me", but then I remembered
> that that's normal anyway...)
I call bullshit, Andy. You may not realize it, but there are plenty of
people who like you. I've told you before, I don't interact with people
I don't like, and I'm interacting with you. That offer to go out for a
Dr. Pepper when we're next over in the UK is still on, BTW.
Unfortunately, it's still going to be a little bit before I actually get
there, what with the US economy being tanked at the moment (and the
exchange rates being great for those from Europe coming over here but not
so good for those from the US going to visit in Europe).
Don't assume that people who have never met you don't like you. Remember
what "assume" means.
Jim
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Jim Henderson escribió:
> Don't assume that people who have never met you don't like you. Remember
> what "assume" means.
Yep. Making assumptions makes an ass of u and... mumptions.
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On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:04:02 -0200, Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> Jim Henderson escribió:
>> Don't assume that people who have never met you don't like you.
>> Remember what "assume" means.
>
> Yep. Making assumptions makes an ass of u and... mumptions.
:-)
Jim
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Invisible wrote:
>>> I never did understand how travel is supposed to teach you anything.
>>> (Other than how to feel lost and afraid - which I already know how to
>>> do.)
>>
>> Going places and interacting with people teaches you about how people
>> behave.
>
> Interesting. IME, "travel" involves sitting in a moving vehicle for
> hours feeling bored and uncomfortable. And let's put it this way: I
> can't interact with people who speak my own language. How am I supposed
> to get anywhere with people who don't even know what I'm saying?
>
One of the great things of being abroad is that they don't know you have
problems interacting. They'll put it down to you being a foreigner and
will be much more responsive than the people around you who know how a
ordinary member of society should behave.
> (I was about to add "and probably don't like me", but then I remembered
> that that's normal anyway...)
You know what? I guess quite a lot of people here might like you when
you would meet them IRL. Unlikely of course as you don't travel and most
of us only go to interesting places when given a choice.
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Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 22:27:28 +0000, Orchid XP v7 wrote:
>
>> Who said history is the *only* thing I suck at? I'm quite there's quite
>> a long list there... :-/
>
> Don't focus on what you suck at, focus on what you're GOOD at.
>
> We all suck at a long laundry list of things. I suck as a comedian. I
> suck at building nuclear reactors. I suck at history. I suck at talking
> about old-time films with my wife. I suck at remembering names of people
> I've met. I suck at freehand drawing. I suck at playing the accordion.
> I suck at poker. I suck at keeping my desk uncluttered. I suck at
> finishing a job I've started (go on, ask me how long we've been working
> on this damned addition on our house, I *dare* you). I suck at
> medicine. I suck at doing the laundry. I suck at washing the dishes. I
> suck at scooping the cat poop out of the litter boxes. I suck at being
> patient with our mean cat. I suck at wicker repair. I suck at masonry.
> I suck at chemistry. I suck at physics. I suck at integral calculus.
>
> I also apparently suck at giving advice. THAT DOESN'T MEAN I WILL STOP
> TRYING!
>
> (This list is not all-inclusive, by any means)
>
Yes, you also suck at making lists.
(Ok, see if we can get this into a Russell paradox ;) )
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andrel wrote:
>> Interesting. IME, "travel" involves sitting in a moving vehicle for
>> hours feeling bored and uncomfortable. And let's put it this way: I
>> can't interact with people who speak my own language. How am I
>> supposed to get anywhere with people who don't even know what I'm saying?
>>
> One of the great things of being abroad is that they don't know you have
> problems interacting. They'll put it down to you being a foreigner and
> will be much more responsive than the people around you who know how a
> ordinary member of society should behave.
You know what? It might just be the whole "the grass is greener" trip,
but it certainly seems that the people in Switzerland were a lot more
friendly than the people over here. Maybe they just take customer
service more seriously, IDK...
>> (I was about to add "and probably don't like me", but then I
>> remembered that that's normal anyway...)
>
> You know what? I guess quite a lot of people here might like you when
> you would meet them IRL. Unlikely of course as you don't travel and most
> of us only go to interesting places when given a choice.
The thing about the Internet... the people you meet are almost
guaranteed to live really far away. Ah well!
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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andrel wrote:
> (Ok, see if we can get this into a Russell paradox ;) )
NOOOOO!!!! >_<
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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>> Interesting. IME, "travel" involves sitting in a moving vehicle for
>> hours feeling bored and uncomfortable. And let's put it this way: I
>> can't interact with people who speak my own language. How am I supposed
>> to get anywhere with people who don't even know what I'm saying?
>
> English is understood in many parts of the world.
Well, certainly a fair few waitresses in Switzerland spoke English
vastly better than I speak French. But not all of them. Heh. Do you
know, I actually still have a reciept in my jacket pocket so people know
what I'm after...
>> (I was about to add "and probably don't like me", but then I remembered
>> that that's normal anyway...)
>
> I call bullshit, Andy. You may not realize it, but there are plenty of
> people who like you.
Er... really? :-.
> I've told you before, I don't interact with people
> I don't like, and I'm interacting with you. That offer to go out for a
> Dr. Pepper when we're next over in the UK is still on, BTW.
*makes mental note* "Jim Henderson"...
> Unfortunately, it's still going to be a little bit before I actually get
> there, what with the US economy being tanked at the moment (and the
> exchange rates being great for those from Europe coming over here but not
> so good for those from the US going to visit in Europe).
The US economy is "tanked"? I thought they were the richest nation on Earth?
(I notice that the exchange rate for the £ to... almost anything is 2:1
or higher. Or so it seems anyway; that's probably not *literally* true...)
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Orchid XP v7 wrote:
>>>> Just FYI, Russell did for set theory (i.e., the basis of most or all
>>>> modern math) what Godel and Turing did for their fields.
>>>
>>> *resists urge to ask who Godel is*
>>>
>> You remember the fixed point operator of lambda calculus? and how you
>> can use that to prove that if you try to assign a meaning of true and
>> false to every lambda expression the fixed point of the negation can
>> neither be true or false? Hence it is impossible to decide the truth
>> of every lambda expression. Goedel (that is an o-umlaut hence the
>> spelling with and without e) did the same for ordinary logic. Proving
>> that the attempts of Russel to combine all logic into one complete
>> theory was in vain. There will always be statements that can not be
>> proven within a set of axioms and theories.
>>
>> But I suspect this time you were joking.
>
> The fixed-point operator confounds me. I really don't get it...
>
What exactly don't you get, the operator, the theorem or why it is
important?
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>> The fixed-point operator confounds me. I really don't get it...
>>
> What exactly don't you get, the operator, the theorem or why it is
> important?
From what little I understand, the fixed point operator takes an
arbitrary function and finds its "least fixed point". I don't really
understand how that can be possible...
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Darren New wrote:
> andrel wrote:
>> There will always be statements that can not be proven within a set of
>> axioms and theories.
>
> The one part of this I've never figured out is...
> Gödel[1] gave a *constructive* proof of this. That makes no sense to me.
>
IIRC it is one of those proofs where you assume something is possible.
Then you construct the most general way to do it and finally conclude
that in all circumstances you run into contradictions. Hence the
assumption that it is possible must be false.
> How can you say something is unprovable if you can give a constructive
> proof of how to generate that which you claim your formal system can't
> generate?
>
> It seems either you have to step outside the system to generate the
> unprovable string, or the string really isn't unprovable within the
> system and you're relying on intuition to "prove" it's unprovable.
>
> Can someone clear that bit up for me?
>
>
>
>
> [1] Yes, I bothered to fire up the non-English-character utility this
> time. :-)
I seem to remember that the Germans were going to abolish all umlauts in
favor of an 'e' after the vowel, in order to conform to 'international'
practices (mainly those in Redmont). Any Germans out there to assure me
that was only a nightmare?
Not sure anyway if that rule would apply to non-resident Germans and
dead ones as well...Returning from google, he wasn't a German, so his
name will be safe for future generations.
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On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:27:23 +0000, Orchid XP v7 wrote:
>>> Interesting. IME, "travel" involves sitting in a moving vehicle for
>>> hours feeling bored and uncomfortable. And let's put it this way: I
>>> can't interact with people who speak my own language. How am I
>>> supposed to get anywhere with people who don't even know what I'm
>>> saying?
>>
>> English is understood in many parts of the world.
>
> Well, certainly a fair few waitresses in Switzerland spoke English
> vastly better than I speak French. But not all of them. Heh. Do you
> know, I actually still have a reciept in my jacket pocket so people know
> what I'm after...
Oh, sure; when I was in Moscow, I had to communicate with someone who
spoke no English (and I spoke no Russian - well, maybe 5 or 6 words
total), and managed just fine. My dad was in Europe during WWII, and he
had conversations with German soldiers even though he spoke no German -
just high-school French. He said that was very strange.
>>> (I was about to add "and probably don't like me", but then I
>>> remembered that that's normal anyway...)
>>
>> I call bullshit, Andy. You may not realize it, but there are plenty of
>> people who like you.
>
> Er... really? :-.
Have a look around this group. No, really, I mean it. A lot of people
here have taken a fair amount of time to talk with you and interact.
Right now, it's the middle of my business day, and I'm chatting away with
you instead of getting work done that I need to do.
I don't spend time talking to people I don't like. I think you've got a
very bizzare self-perception (though I think I understand why that is).
>> I've told you before, I don't interact with people I don't like, and
>> I'm interacting with you. That offer to go out for a Dr. Pepper when
>> we're next over in the UK is still on, BTW.
>
> *makes mental note* "Jim Henderson"...
It's about time. :-)
>> Unfortunately, it's still going to be a little bit before I actually
>> get there, what with the US economy being tanked at the moment (and the
>> exchange rates being great for those from Europe coming over here but
>> not so good for those from the US going to visit in Europe).
>
> The US economy is "tanked"? I thought they were the richest nation on
> Earth?
People argue about the real state of the economy over here; the dollar
vs. the Euro and the British Pound is at a very low point; today it's
about $1.99 to the GBP, and $1.49 to the Euro.
But also, we currently have a much higher debt (as a country) than we did
8 years ago (mostly due to spending on the Iraq war).
Then we also have the fallout from the sub-prime lending scandal, which
has depressed housing values over the last few months (and made it very
difficult to sell property as a consequence in large parts of the
country; here in Utah, the values didn't drop nearly as much as in other
places, so the market's not as bad here as it is, say, in Minnesota -
where my mom has been trying to sell her house since last April).
Jim
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On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:52:25 +0100, andrel wrote:
>> (This list is not all-inclusive, by any means)
>>
> Yes, you also suck at making lists.
Oh, crap, you're right. :-)
Jim
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Orchid XP v7 wrote:
> andrel wrote:
>
>>> Interesting. IME, "travel" involves sitting in a moving vehicle for
>>> hours feeling bored and uncomfortable. And let's put it this way: I
>>> can't interact with people who speak my own language. How am I
>>> supposed to get anywhere with people who don't even know what I'm
>>> saying?
>>>
>> One of the great things of being abroad is that they don't know you
>> have problems interacting. They'll put it down to you being a
>> foreigner and will be much more responsive than the people around you
>> who know how a ordinary member of society should behave.
>
> You know what? It might just be the whole "the grass is greener" trip,
> but it certainly seems that the people in Switzerland were a lot more
> friendly than the people over here. Maybe they just take customer
> service more seriously, IDK...
You know what? The Swiss visiting your home town will feel the same.
>
>>> (I was about to add "and probably don't like me", but then I
>>> remembered that that's normal anyway...)
>>
>> You know what? I guess quite a lot of people here might like you when
>> you would meet them IRL. Unlikely of course as you don't travel and
>> most of us only go to interesting places when given a choice.
>
> The thing about the Internet... the people you meet are almost
> guaranteed to live really far away. Ah well!
>
That mainly depends on how you use it. If you participate in an
international forum with relative few members that may be right.
Subscribe to a local gay community website and the result may be different.
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Orchid XP v7 wrote:
>>> The fixed-point operator confounds me. I really don't get it...
>>>
>> What exactly don't you get, the operator, the theorem or why it is
>> important?
>
> From what little I understand, the fixed point operator takes an
> arbitrary function and finds its "least fixed point". I don't really
> understand how that can be possible...
>
If we are still talking about lambda calculus, take the Y operator, that
one is pretty obvious, I would think. (not sure about the 'least', but I
have dislocated my 'Barendrecht' and it is time to get some sleep.
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Invisible wrote:
>> Cheap way: Read the news (while trying to gain the skill of what news
>> to read and what not to).
>
> I never do this. The news is far too damn depressing.
And why is that?
It's really not any worse than in the past. As long as you realize that
a lot of news will focus on the negative, when it's not representative
of the reality, it shouldn't depress you too much. For every bad news,
there's good stuff going on - you just don't hear about it.
Which is all part of the "skill".
Anyway, if it's too depressing, there are other ways to know about
other countries/cultures. I'll hesitantly suggest Global Voices
(hesitantly as I've read some of the blog selections from certain
countries and some of them are downright unrepresentative of their
cultures): http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/
Another option is look around in the city you live in. There may be
cheap/free resources for learning about foreign cultures. Here in the
US, in universities, there are many student organizations representing
various countries, and very often a few among those are "general" ones
for international students - they're very often welcoming of non-student
locals...
>> Expensive way: Travel.
>
> I never did understand how travel is supposed to teach you anything.
> (Other than how to feel lost and afraid - which I already know how to do.)
Well, I guess I meant something a bit more extensive than, say, tourist
type travel. Spending time elsewhere due to work (month, year, etc)
would be a good example - you'll have to deal with a lot of local
factors that tourists wouldn't.
Seriously, though. Over here at least, there are a LOT of groups trying
to be very vocal on a lot of issues regarding other countries (a number
of them being somewhat kooky). Maybe your town doesn't have as much, but
I'm sure you'll find some if you actually looked. Do they have bulletin
boards in stores, etc where you live? They often post these things
there. Or find a community center and look at their schedule, and see
who's reserved the place for what.
--
"A man doesn't know what happiness is until he's married. By then it's
too late." - Frank Sinatra
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
anl
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andrel wrote:
> One of the great things of being abroad is that they don't know you have
> problems interacting. They'll put it down to you being a foreigner and
> will be much more responsive than the people around you who know how a
> ordinary member of society should behave.
Sad truth about human nature.
--
"A man doesn't know what happiness is until he's married. By then it's
too late." - Frank Sinatra
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
anl
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Invisible wrote:
> Interesting. IME, "travel" involves sitting in a moving vehicle for
> hours feeling bored and uncomfortable. And let's put it this way: I
> can't interact with people who speak my own language. How am I supposed
> to get anywhere with people who don't even know what I'm saying?
While Mandarin may (still) have the lead, I'm sure if you look at the
geographic spread, English is the most prevalent language. You can't
hide behind that excuse.
--
"A man doesn't know what happiness is until he's married. By then it's
too late." - Frank Sinatra
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
anl
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Invisible wrote:
>> (my point being that Andy thinks he sucks at things he's never tried,
>> and if that's the criteria, then we all suck at even more things <g>)
>
> By that definition, I suck at sex.
>
> Which may or may not be true, IDK.
>
> (Hmm... maybe "suck" is the wrong term...)
You mean, you suck poorly.
(I think that was in a Heinlein novel...)
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
On what day did God create the body thetans?
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andrel wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>> andrel wrote:
>>> There will always be statements that can not be proven within a set
>>> of axioms and theories.
>>
>> The one part of this I've never figured out is...
>> Gödel[1] gave a *constructive* proof of this. That makes no sense to me.
>>
> IIRC it is one of those proofs where you assume something is possible.
No, you actually construct the string that the formalism can't prove.
The string consists of essentially saying "this cannot be proven." If
you can prove it, then it's false. If you can't prove it, then it's true
but unprovable.
I understand it at that level, but it would seem to need a
jump-out-of-the-system kind of analysis. I.e., that you *know* it "says"
this cannot be proven.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
On what day did God create the body thetans?
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Vincent Le Chevalier wrote:
> Overall I think French is fairly forgiving on vowels
> compared to English.
Well, yeah. I think English has some 25 vowels or so, so being a little
off is enough to give you a different word. Contrast with Spanish's five
or so.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
On what day did God create the body thetans?
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On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 00:17:51 -0600, Mueen Nawaz <m.n### [at] ieeeorg> wrote:
>andrel wrote:
>> One of the great things of being abroad is that they don't know you have
>> problems interacting. They'll put it down to you being a foreigner and
>> will be much more responsive than the people around you who know how a
>> ordinary member of society should behave.
>
> Sad truth about human nature.
I don't think that's sad. I think that's a good thing about human nature.
Regards
Stephen
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Stephen wrote:
>> andrel wrote:
>>> One of the great things of being abroad is that they don't know you have
>>> problems interacting. They'll put it down to you being a foreigner and
>>> will be much more responsive than the people around you who know how a
>>> ordinary member of society should behave.
>> Sad truth about human nature.
>
> I don't think that's sad. I think that's a good thing about human nature.
Not sad that they're more tolerant of others, but sad that they have
different standards.
If it's just for visitors, that's understandable. But I regularly see
tolerance of those living in the place for over a decade. I don't buy
the argument that they're outsiders and should be treated differently if
they've been there that long.
--
"A man doesn't know what happiness is until he's married. By then it's
too late." - Frank Sinatra
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
anl
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Jim Henderson wrote:
>>> I call bullshit, Andy. You may not realize it, but there are plenty of
>>> people who like you.
>> Er... really? :-.
>
> Have a look around this group. No, really, I mean it. A lot of people
> here have taken a fair amount of time to talk with you and interact.
> Right now, it's the middle of my business day, and I'm chatting away with
> you instead of getting work done that I need to do.
>
> I don't spend time talking to people I don't like. I think you've got a
> very bizzare self-perception (though I think I understand why that is).
Heh. With so many people telling me all the ways I suck at life, I
thought it was like people taking time out of there day to yell at kids
"hey, get off my lawn!"
Would be nice to think a few people like me though...
>> *makes mental note* "Jim Henderson"...
>
> It's about time. :-)
Hmm. ASL?
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 16:28:23 +0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>
>Heh. With so many people telling me all the ways I suck at life, I
>thought it was like people taking time out of there day to yell at kids
>"hey, get off my lawn!"
>
>Would be nice to think a few people like me though...
No! We are saying walk on the path because we are here and that is what people
do. :)
Regards
Stephen
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On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 09:46:56 -0600, Mueen Nawaz <m.n### [at] ieeeorg> wrote:
>
> Not sad that they're more tolerant of others, but sad that they have
>different standards.
>
> If it's just for visitors, that's understandable. But I regularly see
>tolerance of those living in the place for over a decade. I don't buy
>the argument that they're outsiders and should be treated differently if
>they've been there that long.
That gets my vote.
Regards
Stephen
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On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 16:28:23 +0000, Invisible wrote:
> Heh. With so many people telling me all the ways I suck at life, I
> thought it was like people taking time out of there day to yell at kids
> "hey, get off my lawn!"
That's the minutemen. <g>
Lewis Black suggested that the way we could protect the US/Mexico border
from illegal immigrants was to put retired guys down there - they do such
a good job of keeping the kids off their lawns, after all.
(Note, this doesn't reflect my views on immigration, was just a funny
joke I saw <g>)
> Would be nice to think a few people like me though...
>
>>> *makes mental note* "Jim Henderson"...
>>
>> It's about time.
>
> Hmm. ASL?
American Sign Language? Yeah, I know a bit of it. :-)
Jim
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Darren New wrote:
> andrel wrote:
>> Darren New wrote:
>>> andrel wrote:
>>>> There will always be statements that can not be proven within a set
>>>> of axioms and theories.
>>>
>>> The one part of this I've never figured out is...
>>> Gödel[1] gave a *constructive* proof of this. That makes no sense to me.
>>>
>> IIRC it is one of those proofs where you assume something is possible.
>
> No, you actually construct the string that the formalism can't prove.
> The string consists of essentially saying "this cannot be proven." If
> you can prove it, then it's false. If you can't prove it, then it's true
> but unprovable.
>
> I understand it at that level, but it would seem to need a
> jump-out-of-the-system kind of analysis. I.e., that you *know* it "says"
> this cannot be proven.
>
I stand corrected.
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