Rune wrote:
> (...) In the coming years, law enforcement authorities around the world will 
> be able to rely on iris patterns, face-shape data, scars and perhaps even 
> the unique ways people walk and talk, to solve crimes and identify criminals 
> and terrorists. The FBI will also retain, upon request by employers, the 
> fingerprints of employees who have undergone criminal background checks so 
> the employers can be notified if employees have brushes with the law."


I may never have a job again, since I have a criminal background. They
might just be forcing people like me to work 'under the table' for the 
rest of our lives, because no employer will have me no matter how many 
meds I'm taking, or how much therapy I've undergone. Like the War on 
Drugs, the measures they take to fight the War on Terrorism will 
eventually bite 'them' in the ass.

Also, this little bit from the the article is somewhat disturbing:
"For the past two years, the Defense Department has been storing in a 
database images of fingerprints, irises and faces of more than 1.5 
million Iraqi and Afghan detainees, Iraqi citizens and foreigners who 
need access to U.S. military bases."

That's a large number of detainees! As my brother pointed out, most of 
these people have probably since been released, but you know that a 
large number are still in detainment. Without Due Process.

The War is making this planet too damn small :( With all the 
surveillance the government plans to have, it will seem like we're 
living in a veritable Panopticon. I don't know about you guys, but 
sometimes I like to get lost for the sake of freedom in loneliness. Or I 
like to be anonymous in a crowd, for the sense of freedom that provides. 
With the world heading the way it is, the before-mentioned activities 
will become difficult undertakings.

Sam

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stbenge wrote:
> I may never have a job again, since I have a criminal background. They
> might just be forcing people like me to work 'under the table' for the 
> rest of our lives, because no employer will have me no matter how many 
> meds I'm taking, or how much therapy I've undergone. Like the War on 
> Drugs, the measures they take to fight the War on Terrorism will 
> eventually bite 'them' in the ass.

Fine, so you turn into a shadowrunner.  Big deal.

-- 
Tim Cook
http://empyrean.digitalartsuk.com

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somebody wrote:
> There are already large databases of fingerprint and iris patterns. It
> doesn't take much to overlay all the fingerprint patterns there, and I'm
> sure similar things have been done.

Except the average fingerprint isn't done by just overlaying the prints 
on each other.  It's averaging the *shape*...which is a different prospect.

-- 
Tim Cook
http://empyrean.digitalartsuk.com

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Tim Cook wrote:
> somebody wrote:
>> There are already large databases of fingerprint and iris patterns. It
>> doesn't take much to overlay all the fingerprint patterns there, and I'm
>> sure similar things have been done.
> 
> Except the average fingerprint isn't done by just overlaying the prints 
> on each other.  It's averaging the *shape*...which is a different prospect.
> 
define shape

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stbenge wrote:

> Also, this little bit from the the article is somewhat disturbing:
> "For the past two years, the Defense Department has been storing in a 
> database images of fingerprints, irises and faces of more than 1.5 
> million Iraqi and Afghan detainees, Iraqi citizens and foreigners who 
> need access to U.S. military bases."
> 
> That's a large number of detainees!

The 1.5 million figure appears to include not only the detainees, but 
people who have come into contact with the US government for other 
reasons (like asking for a job on one of the bases we have over there).

 > As my brother pointed out, most of
> these people have probably since been released, but you know that a 
> large number are still in detainment. Without Due Process.

I would venture to say that the overwhelming majority were never 
detained in the first place.  I've been fingerprinted by three different 
agencies and I've never been detained or arrested for any reason.

Regards,
John

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andrel wrote:
> Tim Cook wrote:
>> Except the average fingerprint isn't done by just overlaying the 
>> prints on each other.  It's averaging the *shape*...which is a 
>> different prospect.
> define shape

Vector, as opposed to bitmap.

-- 
Tim Cook
http://empyrean.digitalartsuk.com

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Tim Cook wrote:
> andrel wrote:
>> Tim Cook wrote:
>>> Except the average fingerprint isn't done by just overlaying the 
>>> prints on each other.  It's averaging the *shape*...which is a 
>>> different prospect.
>> define shape
> 
> Vector, as opposed to bitmap.
> 
Ok, we agree that you can not average them as bitmap. So you need a 
model. Which means extracting parameters from the fingerprint in a way 
that they can be averaged. With vector I assume that you think that you 
can normalize all fingerprints and then at some sampling points compute 
the angle of the closest line in the fingerprint or something like that. 
Then you can for each point define the average direction of 
fingerprints*. Only, what you get is the average model not an average of 
the input. Don't confuse a model with reality.**

* my god why am I writing this?
** Ah that is why, to be able to say that somewhere. Pathetic isn't it?

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andrel wrote:
> Ok, we agree that you can not average them as bitmap. So you need a 
> model. Which means extracting parameters from the fingerprint in a way 
> that they can be averaged. With vector I assume that you think that you 
> can normalize all fingerprints and then at some sampling points compute 
> the angle of the closest line in the fingerprint or something like that. 
> Then you can for each point define the average direction of 
> fingerprints*. Only, what you get is the average model not an average of 
> the input. Don't confuse a model with reality.**

Sir Francis Galton did just that; came up with a string of letters and 
numbers to represent a fingerprint, with a 1:10,000,000,000,000 
collision rate.  Plenty for humans.

-- 
Tim Cook
http://empyrean.digitalartsuk.com

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Tim Cook wrote:
> Hello Big Brother, you say, but *I* say...it would be interesting to 
> take the data and average each set to get a composite 'American' of each 
> gender.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nice6NYb_WA

That, plus more.

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     It's not feature creep if you put it
     at the end and adjust the release date.

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somebody wrote:
> There are already large databases of fingerprint and iris patterns. 

I don't know about irises, but the way fingerprints are stored in 
criminal databases doesn't lend itself to "overlapping" them. They're 
not stored as pictures, as such.

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     It's not feature creep if you put it
     at the end and adjust the release date.

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