"Bad acting, but good singing."

  I think that quite aptly describes opera. :P

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> "Bad acting, but good singing."
>
>   I think that quite aptly describes opera. :P

never really digged Opera, except for a few arias and orchestral passages.  I
feel very much the same as when watching some of the old Hollywood musicals:
actors suddenly stopping what they are doing and beggining to sing and dance
out of nowhere give me the creeps... it's out of context but are very enjoyable
out of the context of the work itself... :)

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nemesis wrote:
> never really digged Opera, except for a few arias and orchestral passages.  I
> feel very much the same as when watching some of the old Hollywood musicals:
> actors suddenly stopping what they are doing and beggining to sing and dance
> out of nowhere give me the creeps... it's out of context but are very enjoyable
> out of the context of the work itself... :)

Oddly I don't like musicals for exactly this reason.  I suppose maybe I 
like opera because I seems more in context to me since they never really 
stop singing.  Perhaps I just like the music more though.

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I love opera, and I still have to agree with this.  I think some operas 
probably lend themselves a bit more to good (or less-bad) acting than 
others though.


Warp wrote:
>   "Bad acting, but good singing."
> 
>   I think that quite aptly describes opera. :P
>

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"Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote in message 
news:472be699@news.povray.org...
>  "Bad acting, but good singing."
>
>  I think that quite aptly describes opera. :P
>

I was never able to enjoy opera, though I did give it a go.

I don't understand Italian or German, and they don't translate to English 
well.  So if I haven't read up on the story first, it's just a wash of 
sound.

"Recitative" style leaves me cold.  Why not just speak the words if you're 
already using ordinary prose for the language and seemingly-random notes to 
deliver them?

There is a popular (and I think egotistical) deliberate habit among some 
bel-canto (spelling?) singers to sing only "pure" sounds.  They'll sing only 
open vowels, seeking-and-destroying all consonants, and all intelligibility 
with them.  The only way to know what they're singing is to already know the 
opera before turning up.  I actually believed something was wrong with MY 
ears when I'd heard quite a few opera sung that way.  I was prepared to hear 
a foreign language and not understand it.  But I strained my ears and all I 
heard for the entire performance was "ooooooo-eeeeeeee-aaaaaaaa-awwwwww". 
Then I perchance heard a radio interview with an opera singer, and she 
explained it all.  It comes from an attitude that stooping to singing dirty 
consonants prevents them from showing off with their wonderful voices.  I 
don't like it when a theatre-person decides they are more important than the 
language, their role, the show, the rest of the cast, the original writer, 
and not least: the audience.

Because of the particular vocal exercise used to deepen and strengthen their 
vocal power, the majority of males all sound identical to me.  If I close my 
eyes, it could well be just one man on stage singing all the male roles.

The women's voices -- aargh sorry, but the head-piercing character of many 
literally make me so ill with severe headaches, that within a half-hour of 
starting, I have had to leave to go lie down.


Just my personal experience.  I'm not declaring opera to be rubbish, nor 
denigrating anyone's taste, who finds real pleasure in it -- as many do. 
I'm just not built for Opera, is all.

-- 
Brian

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nemesis wrote:
> Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
>> "Bad acting, but good singing."
>>
>>   I think that quite aptly describes opera. :P

Add to that, "and funny facial expressions." Or does that go with bad 
acting?

I fear that if I were to attend an Opera recital in person, my ability 
to stifle my own laughter would indeed be compromised by my running for 
the door. Don't get me wrong; I think Opera singers have wonderful 
voices and I do enjoy Opera music from time-to-time. The facial 
expressions, however, are quite comical!

> never really digged Opera, except for a few arias and orchestral passages.  I
> feel very much the same as when watching some of the old Hollywood musicals:
> actors suddenly stopping what they are doing and beggining to sing and dance
> out of nowhere give me the creeps... it's out of context but are very enjoyable
> out of the context of the work itself... :)

I do that occasionally..... Break out in song. It's never a serious 
event, and usually involves a bastardized version of another song. A 
recent one, for instance, was a take on "Small Town" by John Mellencamp. 
  "Well I live in a small house, can barely fit in my small house, my 
only friend is a small mouse, but that's good enough for meee"

Okay, so I'm strange....

Sam

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Warp wrote:
>   "Bad acting, but good singing."
> 
>   I think that quite aptly describes opera. :P
> 
I think it is a somewhat outdated remark. I wouldn't be surprised if 
that quote is at least 20 years old. From a time where there was a good 
change that the leading female role was sung by the canonical fat lady. 
I am a regular at the opera and in my experience nowadays the acting is 
just as important as the singing. Not only for the production but also 
for the audience (not necessary in that order). If you are not able to 
perform a convincing role either because you can not act or because you 
are 50 kilos too heavy or 20 years to old to play a young lover, you 
have a problem.
I have experienced that an actor was booed at because he was totally 
unconvincing as a Siegmund (Walkure, Richard Wagner), and that is a real 
rarity for an european opera audience. At another occasion we had a slim 
young girl singing the part of brunhilde in another Walkure. Then in the 
Siegfried (the 3rd part of Wagner's ring cycle, Walkure is the second) 
we were to have a famous opera diva of the old style as brunhilde. 
Before the start of the opera they announced that she could not come 
because she was ill (again? you could here many people think) and that 
at such short notice it was hard to find a replacement, but that 
although the role is somewhat too heavy for a young singer the brunhilde 
from the Walkure would be our brunhilde for this night too. This 
resulted in a big round of applause, expressing that we had every 
confidence that she could do it (she did) and that we are sick and tired 
of that Diva attitude.
As you may recall (probably not ;) ) one of my cousins is an opera 
singer. I have seen him at several performances and I can only say that 
he not only has a fantastic voice, he is a good actor too. But I might 
be a little biased.
So to summarize: I disagree.

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andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> Warp wrote:
> >   "Bad acting, but good singing."
> > 
> >   I think that quite aptly describes opera. :P
> > 
> I think it is a somewhat outdated remark.

  It was humor. Don't take it too seriously.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Warp wrote:
> andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
>> Warp wrote:
>>>   "Bad acting, but good singing."
>>>
>>>   I think that quite aptly describes opera. :P
>>>
>> I think it is a somewhat outdated remark.
> 
>   It was humor. Don't take it too seriously.
> 
Might be, but still a common misconception.

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On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 21:08:05 -0700, Kevin Wampler wrote:

> I love opera, and I still have to agree with this.  I think some operas
> probably lend themselves a bit more to good (or less-bad) acting than
> others though.

Agreed. :-)

They also tend to require the use of a fair bit of imagination; I like 
Wagner's Ring cycle, but the versions I've seen performed it was clear, 
for example, that Fafner was just a few people manipulating a big puppet.

It would be cool, I think, if someone adapted some of the classic operas 
to film format - there are some pretty good (and some pretty awful) 
stories.

Jim

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Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 21:08:05 -0700, Kevin Wampler wrote:
>
> > I love opera, and I still have to agree with this.  I think some operas
> > probably lend themselves a bit more to good (or less-bad) acting than
> > others though.
>
> Agreed. :-)
>
> They also tend to require the use of a fair bit of imagination; I like
> Wagner's Ring cycle, but the versions I've seen performed it was clear,
> for example, that Fafner was just a few people manipulating a big puppet.
>
> It would be cool, I think, if someone adapted some of the classic operas
> to film format - there are some pretty good (and some pretty awful)
> stories.
>
> Jim

The Met recorded their "Time Tunnel" Ring cycle version about 10 years ago. It
is probably still available.

Like in the theatre you need to suspend disbelief. Sometimes that is a bit hard
if you keep your eyes open. :)
For me it is the music + voices that are important.

Stephen

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On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 11:47:44 -0500, Stephen wrote:

> The Met recorded their "Time Tunnel" Ring cycle version about 10 years
> ago. It is probably still available.

I believe that's the one I have.  I'm thinking more of a re-dramatization 
of the series, perhaps taking the story and retelling it in a more 
cinematic style using a rescoring of the original music to fit.

> Like in the theatre you need to suspend disbelief. Sometimes that is a
> bit hard if you keep your eyes open.

Yes; I went and saw Carmina Burana performed by Ballet West here in SLC - 
given the origins of the music, setting dance to it was something I 
thought would be a bit odd, but strangely it worked.  Pity the 
performance of the music wasn't up to my standard.

> For me it is the music + voices that are important.

Oh, yes, absolutely.

Jim

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Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 11:47:44 -0500, Stephen wrote:
>
> > The Met recorded their "Time Tunnel" Ring cycle version about 10 years
> > ago. It is probably still available.
>
> I believe that's the one I have.  I'm thinking more of a re-dramatization
> of the series, perhaps taking the story and retelling it in a more
> cinematic style using a rescoring of the original music to fit.

Sorry for the delay in replying. You might be opening a can of worms with the
purists, re-scoring the music. Not that it hasn’t been done before. But if you
are talking about Wagner watch out. About 10 years ago Willard White was
singing Wotan in the Scottish Opera’s production of Siegfried. There were
protests outside the theatre because Wotan “was not Black”. Thank God he wasn’t
English as well :)
Actually I have a problem with your suggestion. I don’t thing that I can think
of any opera that is in the cannon that would transfer well to the modern
cinema. Except Billy Budd set in the era of Starship troupers. But then it is
modern and by the only modern composer that I can listen to. Plink! Plink!
Screech! Screech! :)


> > Like in the theatre you need to suspend disbelief. Sometimes that is a
> > bit hard if you keep your eyes open.
>
> Yes; I went and saw Carmina Burana performed by Ballet West here in SLC -
> given the origins of the music, setting dance to it was something I
> thought would be a bit odd, but strangely it worked.  Pity the
> performance of the music wasn't up to my standard.
>

Oh! I can imagine that, on second thoughts “SLC” I find it hard to imagine
Carmina Burana being produced there ????
Shame about the standard, come to London:)

> > For me it is the music + voices that are important.
>
> Oh, yes, absolutely.
>
> Jim

One of the complaints about opera in English is that it is hard to get the
translation to scan and keep the original sense. So I prefer to listen in the
original language and follow the libretto until I know the opera.

I should not have joined in an OT thread as I can’t keep up with it on the web
view. If you want to continue you could always mail me.



Stephen

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And lo on Sat, 03 Nov 2007 03:29:15 -0000, nemesis  
<nam### [at] gmailcom> did spake, saying:

> Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
>> "Bad acting, but good singing."
>>
>>   I think that quite aptly describes opera. :P
>
> never really digged Opera, except for a few arias and orchestral  
> passages.  I
> feel very much the same as when watching some of the old Hollywood  
> musicals:
> actors suddenly stopping what they are doing and beggining to sing and  
> dance
> out of nowhere give me the creeps... it's out of context but are very  
> enjoyable
> out of the context of the work itself... :)

Agreed, for me it's not just the sudden bursting into song, it's the way  
everyone joins in then forgets all about it once the song has finished.  
The only musicals I can stand are Bugsy Malone, Little Shop of Horrors,  
and The Rocky Horror Picture Show; others and opera make me wince.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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Hmm, I though "The coolest, fastest, and most secure free Web browser available" was a
more apt description.

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On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 04:37:03 -0500, Stephen wrote:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 11:47:44 -0500, Stephen wrote:
>>
>> > The Met recorded their "Time Tunnel" Ring cycle version about 10
>> > years ago. It is probably still available.
>>
>> I believe that's the one I have.  I'm thinking more of a
>> re-dramatization of the series, perhaps taking the story and retelling
>> it in a more cinematic style using a rescoring of the original music to
>> fit.
> 
> Sorry for the delay in replying. You might be opening a can of worms
> with the purists, re-scoring the music. Not that it hasn’t been done
> before. But if you are talking about Wagner watch out. About 10 years
> ago Willard White was singing Wotan in the Scottish Opera’s production
> of Siegfried. There were protests outside the theatre because Wotan “was
> not Black”. Thank God he wasn’t English as well :)
> Actually I have a problem with your suggestion. I don’t thing that I can
> think of any opera that is in the cannon that would transfer well to the
> modern cinema. Except Billy Budd set in the era of Starship troupers.
> But then it is modern and by the only modern composer that I can listen
> to. Plink! Plink! Screech! Screech! :)

Well, yeah, but there are always going to be people who think "it wasn't 
done right".  Doing the entire Ring even in 3 movies would be difficult 
at best.

>> > Like in the theatre you need to suspend disbelief. Sometimes that is
>> > a bit hard if you keep your eyes open.
>>
>> Yes; I went and saw Carmina Burana performed by Ballet West here in SLC
>> - given the origins of the music, setting dance to it was something I
>> thought would be a bit odd, but strangely it worked.  Pity the
>> performance of the music wasn't up to my standard.
>>
>>
> Oh! I can imagine that, on second thoughts “SLC” I find it hard to
> imagine Carmina Burana being produced there ???? Shame about the
> standard, come to London:)

I'd love to do that.  And if you think Carmina being performed in SLC 
(which is actually fairly left of center compared to the rest of the 
state), you should hear KBYU (the radio station at Brigham Young 
University) broadcast Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique.  Now *there's* 
irony for you. ;-)

> One of the complaints about opera in English is that it is hard to get
> the translation to scan and keep the original sense. So I prefer to
> listen in the original language and follow the libretto until I know the
> opera.

Same here.  Did that with Carmina as well, for that matter.  It can be 
difficult, but the story itself, I think, could be translated 
effectively.  I'd love to see the Immolation scene at the end of 
Gotterdammrung done in a cinematic style - now *that* would be cool.

> I should not have joined in an OT thread as I can’t keep up with it on
> the web view. If you want to continue you could always mail me.

:-(  I prefer the group myself, why not a newsreader for you? ;-)

Jim

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