At the school where I am the computer skills teacher, the students in 
one of the science classes were doing projects on the chemical elements. 
  Each student was assigned a chemical element, and told to research 
that element on-line and in the school library.

The student who drew the element mercury thought it would be nifty to 
have samples of the element in his project.  As I understand things, his 
father works in a field where mercury switches (which are little glass 
bulbs with mercury and wires in them) are used.  This youth brought 
several of these to class, almost certainly without his father's permission.

Some of these little capsules were broken in the school building, 
resulting in mercury contamination in one of the boys' bathrooms, the 
locker room, and my classroom.

Resultantly, a HAZMAT team was in the school today, tearing up the 
carpeting in my room, and doing their work in the other places as well. 
  My classes were relocated to another room, where the air conditioner 
was off.  Although this is middle October, this is also central 
Florida[1], so the room was uncomfortably warm.  The systems on which 
the educational software is installed are still in the room being 
decontaminated, so the students participated in their Accelerated 
Reading program for the day.  They sit and read for half an hour.  Most 
of them hate it.

The kid who brought the stuff to school was suspended for two days, and 
I was asked why I didn't notice kids playing with mercury in my room, by 
people who seem to have forgotten that if kids really want to hide 
something from the teacher, it requires Superman's X-Ray vision to catch 
them.

So, life at school sucked this week.  How's life for you?

Regards,
John

[1] Yes, those of you who live near The Villages in Florida may have 
seen this on the news.

Post a reply to this message

John VanSickle wrote:

> [1] Yes, those of you who live near The Villages in Florida may have 
> seen this on the news.

When I was at school, the teacher *showed* us a bottle of mercury from 
the chemicals cupboard.

Yes, it probably shouldn't have a disintegrated cork for a lid. Still, 
metalic mercury is quite harmless. It's the oxide you want to worry 
about. What that...? Oh... Yes, it does oxidize quite well in air.

Apparently the school was "probably not supposed to keep this stuff any 
more". Whatever. I was *far* more concerned by the bottle at the back 
labelled "WARNING: Explosive when dry" containing an amorphus dry powder...

We also got to watch the teacher play with some sodium in a big water 
thank. And then us students got to play with some... magnisium ribbon. 
(Trust me, soaking magnisium in water isn't nearly so interesting. After 
an hour, a few bubbles had formed...)

Post a reply to this message

Hey John, you're only about an hour away from me (Orlando).  I can definitely imagine
how
uncomfortable it was with a bunch of people all huddled together in a room with no AC.
 Not nice.  

So, how long before you can get back into your old classroom?

Post a reply to this message

Kyle wrote:
> Hey John, you're only about an hour away from me (Orlando).  I can definitely
imagine how
> uncomfortable it was with a bunch of people all huddled together in a room with no
AC.  Not nice.  
> 
> So, how long before you can get back into your old classroom?

Random survey: how other many people in here are in the Orlando area? 
It's come up a few times before, I just don't remember whoall's around.

-- 
Tim Cook
http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-empyrean

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GFA dpu- s: a?-- C++(++++) U P? L E--- W++(+++)>$
N++ o? K- w(+) O? M-(--) V? PS+(+++) PE(--) Y(--)
PGP-(--) t* 5++>+++++ X+ R* tv+ b++(+++) DI
D++(---) G(++) e*>++ h+ !r--- !y--
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v7 wrote:
> thank. And then us students got to play with some... magnisium ribbon. 
> (Trust me, soaking magnisium in water isn't nearly so interesting. 

He gave you magnesium ribbon and you soaked it in water instead of fire? 
No wonder you thoguht it was boring.

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     Remember the good old days, when we
     used to complain about cryptography
     being export-restricted?

Post a reply to this message

"Tim Cook" <z99### [at] bellsouthnet> wrote in message
news:47192547@news.povray.org...
> Kyle wrote:
> > Hey John, you're only about an hour away from me (Orlando).  I can
definitely imagine how
> > uncomfortable it was with a bunch of people all huddled together in a
room with no AC.  Not nice.
> >
> > So, how long before you can get back into your old classroom?
>
> Random survey: how other many people in here are in the Orlando area?
> It's come up a few times before, I just don't remember whoall's around.
>

Use to be a few ... *gulp*... 5 years ago.

oh how time flies.

Post a reply to this message

Kyle wrote:
> Hey John, you're only about an hour away from me (Orlando).  I can definitely
imagine how
> uncomfortable it was with a bunch of people all huddled together in a room with no
AC.  Not nice.  
> 
> So, how long before you can get back into your old classroom?

I'm hoping for Monday.  The HAZMAT guys took up the carpet today.

This whole mess is costing the school upwards of ten grand, and probably 
more.

Regards,
John

Post a reply to this message

In my high school chemistry class, the teacher showed us sodium in water 
- small sample, so it just fizzed and shot around the tank a bit.

The teacher in the next classroom (which shared a storeroom with our 
classroom), though, was not thought of as being the brightest bulb in the 
package; he took a piece that was significantly larger and dropped it in 
for his class.  It exploded with a very loud "bang", and there was 
smoke...

Friend of mine was in the class when he did that.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

John VanSickle wrote:
> I'm hoping for Monday.  The HAZMAT guys took up the carpet today.
> This whole mess is costing the school upwards of ten grand, and probably 
> more.

Seems a bit much for something that 20 years ago you could buy at radio 
shack for like a quarter.

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     Remember the good old days, when we
     used to complain about cryptography
     being export-restricted?

Post a reply to this message

>> I'm hoping for Monday.  The HAZMAT guys took up the carpet today.
>> This whole mess is costing the school upwards of ten grand, and probably 
>> more.
>
> Seems a bit much for something that 20 years ago you could buy at radio 
> shack for like a quarter.

I spilled a pound of the stuff once and swept it up an dumped it back in
its bottle, and I'm hardly insane at all.

I heard they did the same thing for a broken CFL somewhere or other,
with hazmat and everything. People need to toughen up.

Post a reply to this message

"Darren New" <dne### [at] sanrrcom> a écrit dans le message de news: 
47192e8c$1@news.povray.org...
> Orchid XP v7 wrote:
>> thank. And then us students got to play with some... magnisium ribbon. 
>> (Trust me, soaking magnisium in water isn't nearly so interesting.
>
> He gave you magnesium ribbon and you soaked it in water instead of fire? 
> No wonder you thoguht it was boring.
>
Talking of Mg and Hg, At school, our teacher wanted to show us water 
synthesis from H2 and O2 and the unstability of the gas mixture.
He filed a graduated lab glass tube with mercury and put it opening down in 
a bath of mercury. then he filled it with the same volume of H2 and O2.
He told us to step back away then lit a ribbon of magnesium close to  the 
tube. The mix exploded projecting a thousand drops of mercury all across the 
lab.
It looks like he forgot deepening the open end of the tube in the bath.
At this time mercury wasn't known as so contaminant.

Marc

Post a reply to this message

M_a_r_c wrote:

> He told us to step back away then lit a ribbon of magnesium close to  the 
> tube. The mix exploded projecting a thousand drops of mercury all across the 
> lab.
> It looks like he forgot deepening the open end of the tube in the bath.

Yes, but he DID demonstrate the instability of an H2/O2 mixture...

There was a similar demo on the David Letterman show.  The fellow had 
two balloons, one filled with hydrogen and one filled with a 
hydrogen/oxygen mix.  He touched a blowtorch to each balloon.  The 
hydrogen-filled balloon made a brief, silent fireball.  The other 
balloon made a brief and very noisy fireball.

Regards,
John

Post a reply to this message

Tim Attwood wrote:
>>>I'm hoping for Monday.  The HAZMAT guys took up the carpet today.
>>>This whole mess is costing the school upwards of ten grand, and probably 
>>>more.
>>
>>Seems a bit much for something that 20 years ago you could buy at radio 
>>shack for like a quarter.
> 
> 
> I spilled a pound of the stuff once and swept it up an dumped it back in
> its bottle, and I'm hardly insane at all.
> 
> I heard they did the same thing for a broken CFL somewhere or other,
> with hazmat and everything. People need to toughen up. 

As I said to my classes yesterday while talking about it, "the stuff is 
not nerve gas.  Just don't eat it."

Unfortunately, the environmental regulations are written to treat 
everything as if it were about a hundred times as dangerous as it really is.

Regards,
John

Post a reply to this message

John VanSickle wrote:

> Unfortunately, the environmental regulations are written to treat 
> everything as if it were about a hundred times as dangerous as it really 
> is.

Presumably in case it turns out to be ten times more dangerous than 
everybody thought, so they don't get sued. ;-)

Post a reply to this message

"John VanSickle" <evi### [at] hotmailcom> wrote in message
news:47191438@news.povray.org...
> At the school where I am the computer skills teacher, the students in one
> of the science classes were doing projects on the chemical elements. Each
> student was assigned a chemical element, and told to research that element
> on-line and in the school library.
>
> The student who drew the element mercury thought it would be nifty to have
> samples of the element in his project.  As I understand things, his father
> works in a field where mercury switches (which are little glass bulbs with
> mercury and wires in them) are used.  This youth brought several of these
> to class, almost certainly without his father's permission.
>
> Some of these little capsules were broken in the school building,
> resulting in mercury contamination in one of the boys' bathrooms, the
> locker room, and my classroom.
>
> Resultantly, a HAZMAT team was in the school today, tearing up the
> carpeting in my room, and doing their work in the other places as well. My
> classes were relocated to another room, where the air conditioner was off.
> Although this is middle October, this is also central Florida[1], so the
> room was uncomfortably warm.  The systems on which the educational
> software is installed are still in the room being decontaminated, so the
> students participated in their Accelerated Reading program for the day.
> They sit and read for half an hour.  Most of them hate it.
>
> The kid who brought the stuff to school was suspended for two days, and I
> was asked why I didn't notice kids playing with mercury in my room, by
> people who seem to have forgotten that if kids really want to hide
> something from the teacher, it requires Superman's X-Ray vision to catch
> them.
>
> So, life at school sucked this week.  How's life for you?
>
> Regards,
> John
>
> [1] Yes, those of you who live near The Villages in Florida may have seen
> this on the news.

When I was a student, our teacher brought mercury to the classroom in an 
open beaker.  We could dip a finger in it and feel its heaviness press 
around your finger.  While handling it, her ring finger dipped in the 
mercury and her gold wedding ring came out "silvered".  Whoops.  She dropped 
a little on a piece of aluminium and then shook it off.  Fresh white oxide 
grew on the bare aluminium as though it was magic fast-gro hair.


Here's my week:

 I have been attempting fix/salvage of an Oracle database that I now believe 
was incompletely upgraded in the past.  It's a 9.2.0.7 database and has 
worked without problems for ages.  It is the Enterprise Manager repository 
for managing about a dozen 8i and 9i databases, plus it has the Recovery 
Manager catalogues for backups of another three 10g Databases.

It all started when we had had problems with peripheral hardware on the 
server.  We rebooted and power-cycled the server to clear it.  I manually 
shut Oracle down cleanly.  On startup, all Oracle restarted normally (2 
databases, one listener, one intelligent agent, one EM console, one iAS 
1.0.22.

That night, the full database export failed with an ORA-0600 error.  An 
ORA-600 is the dreaded "internal error", and generally means "bug".  It 
failed the next night too.  And the next.  Otherwise the DB worked fine.  It 
just wouldn't export any more.

The message arguments that came with the ORA-600 indicate the exception 
occurred in Java
routines.  Oracle's Metalink site lists many separate bug instances and 
patches for this Java-specific problem, but also had a remarkably easy 
workaround:  Bounce the database and this problem will go away.

We bounced the DB.  The export still breaks.  Bounce again.  Repeat ad 
nauseum.
Nope, that workaround don't work on this DB.

Ok, so this DB is at version 9.2.0.7.  The terminal release of 9iR2 is 
currently at 9.2.0.8.  That led me to the first tactic:

First tactic:  Update version to 9.2.0.8 in hope of clearing the bug.  If 
not, well, we can get support from Oracle once it is on the terminal 
release.

I downloaded the 9.2.0.8 patch set and began updating.  The install phase 
went well.

While running the "catpatch.sql" to update the data dictionary objects, 
several errors threw up here and there without an obvious reason: 
"ORA-1460: Unimplemented or unreasonable conversion requested.".  The Error 
Codes manual says of ORA-1460 in so many words:  "You stuffed up a 
conversion format string in a TO_DATE, TO_CHAR or a TO_NUMBER function. 
RTFM and get it right, you idiot."

But weirdly, this error threw on statements like "create public synonym", 
"grant select on ... to PUBLIC", "create or replace view" and "drop table" 
I watched as the patch script ran:  It made no sense.  I was studying and 
pondering it while the patch SQL scrolled by in SQL*Plus, when...

BAM!  "ORA-03113: End-of-file on communication channel."  It happened on one 
of the statements in the catpatch (actually in catjob.sql called by 
catpatch) : it was a "grant select on ALL_JOBS to public with grant option". 
The remaining several hundred of the patch's SQL statements all returned 
"ORA-03114: Not connected to Oracle.".

I tracked down the trace file for the dropped SQL session.  The HP-UX 
operating system had killed my SQL session on a Floating-Point Exception 
(signal 8).  Nice.  Oh, and it occurred in a Java subroutine.  Did I mention 
Java?

For a while I tried to push the semi-patched database through to a usable 
state, but the session aborted on too many statements, plus those !#%$ 
ORA-1460s that seemed unrelated to the operations they threw on.  I 
suspected something wrong in the data dictionary made Recursive SQL (a term 
for Oracle's internal SQL on the data dictionary, that services your SQL 
request) throw a 1460.  But normally when a Recursive SQL error breaks your 
SQL statement, it tells you that's what broke.  This wasn't doing that.

THEN, I finally "saw" the banners for the very first time as I logged in 
*yet_again* with SQL*Plus.  Roughly it looked something like:

Connected to Oracle RDBMS 9.2.0.8.0 Enterprise Edition 64-bit -- Production
With Data Mining, Partitioning and Spatial options

JServer Release 9.0.1.4.0

SQL>

WTF was that?!?

The Java Machine in this database is a 9i Rel.1 version and the DB is 9i 
Rel.2!  How the h3ll did that happen?!  I checked out a 9.2.0.6 DB somewhere 
else.  Sure enough the banners including JServer are all 9.2.0.6.0.


Further pursuit of upgrade was pointless, so I shutdown the DB.  Blew it 
away, and the software home and the installer's inventory.  Restored it all 
from tape, started the DB and did media recovery to a point-in-time just 
before the abortive update.  Sure enough, RDBMS 9.2.0.7.0 and JServer 
9.0.1.4.  It must have been like this for three years at least!

Second tactic: Data protection Strategy:
In case this DB ultimately has to be thrown out, I wanted to preserve the 
RMAN catalogs and Enterprise Manager Repository.  I really don't feel like 
rebuilding all that.  The full export was failing because of a Java bomb, 
but maybe if I export only the RMAN user, I could extricate some data before 
the caboose heads over the cliff.

I made an export par file.  I started the export.  The server fell to its 
knees and nearly died.  More accurately, "exp" ran, printed no messages, not 
even a banner.  It sucked 100% of one CPU and proceeded to eat memory like 
carnival ice-cream.  Within one minute, exp had a 1.26 GB resident memory 
size, disk I/O was at 100% bandwidth as "vhand" swapped everything that 
wasn't "exp"out to disk, including both databases.  It took two minutes just 
waiting to pull a new command prompt, or a login prompt, or anything.

I couldn't get rid of it:  The runaway export cheerfully ignored my <Ctrl-C> 
(Interrupt) <Ctrl-\> (Quit) and then repeated "kill -9" signals.  I 
abortively shutdown the database it was supposed to be exporting.  (I gave 
up on the normal shutdown after waiting for three minutes)  It still 
wouldn't die.  I set up a shell command loop to send it a kill -9 every two 
seconds.  Finally I also shut down the OTHER database to try free enough 
memory to get functionality back, and at last the "exp" process died, on 
about the 23rd kill-loop iteration.  It released 1.2 GB of memory and the 
system was at last responsive again.

Phew!!   But -- it meant the death of hopes of preserving data to carry to a 
new database.  :-(

Third tactic:  Uninstall and reinstall the JServer to bring it up to the 
proper database version.

A colleague had made up an SQL script in the past to do just this on another 
DB, and he gave it to me.  This didn't work for the same reason as before. 
The SQL connection just died as soon as it touched any Java-ish object.  So 
the JVM is even too faulty to drop.  And AGAIN, those ORA-1460 messages!

Seems much more is wrong with this DB than just Java.  It must have gone 
through a botched upgrade from 9.0.1.4 and god knows what else could be 
wrong with it.  It's a miracle it worked at all for this long!  I blow it 
all away.  Restore from tape.

Fourth tactic:  Do a *full* 9iR2 base install (9.2.0.1.0) and run the 
9.0.1 -> 9.2.0 migration procedures over the database.  If that's ok, patch 
up to 9.2.0.8.

Where the hell did our 9.2.0.1.0 software for HP-UX go??  Dammit.  I had to 
download all four disks worth from Oracle Technet.  Took about a day. 
Still, thank god the Internet makes this possible.

That's brought me to Thursday afternoon and I could do no more with it this 
week.  On Friday I had to prepare for a planned cutover of another 
application to its Disaster Recovery site database.  The primary building 
was being knocked off power supply (also my office)

Thursday night: A callout.  Friday night: A callout -- the application is 
extremely slow on the D-R database.  Today (Saturday) more work on the D-R 
callout, but finally resolved.


As for the "Fourth tactic" install on the 9.2.0.7 / 9.0.1.4 dudderbase, it 
will come next week.  Watch this space.

If that doesn't work, the fifth tactic will also be my last one:  Trash it 
all and build a completely new database, Enterprise Manager configuration 
and RMAN catalog.  A long job.  The most recent valid export of RMAN and 
Enterprise Manager data will be old and on tape, but might be usable.

-- 
Brian

Post a reply to this message

Brian Elliott wrote:
> Phew!!   But -- it meant the death of hopes of preserving data to carry 
> to a new database.  :-(

You didn't just write something to go through each table and say "select 
* from $table" and then dump that out to CSV files, at least? :-)  One 
of the lovlies about the RDBM was that you could do such things pretty 
trivially.

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     Remember the good old days, when we
     used to complain about cryptography
     being export-restricted?

Post a reply to this message

Darren New wrote:
> Brian Elliott wrote:
>> Phew!!   But -- it meant the death of hopes of preserving data to 
>> carry to a new database.  :-(
> 
> You didn't just write something to go through each table and say "select 
> * from $table" and then dump that out to CSV files, at least? :-)  One 
> of the lovlies about the RDBM was that you could do such things pretty 
> trivially.

Yeah - and then rebuild all the table structures, indexes, data 
permissions, etc. :-S Still, it depends on how "vital" the data is. I 
take it you didn't just loose your entire customer list or anything? ;-)

Post a reply to this message

"Orchid XP v7" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message
news:471a5fde@news.povray.org...

>
> Yeah - and then rebuild all the table structures, indexes, data
> permissions, etc. :-S Still, it depends on how "vital" the data is. I
> take it you didn't just loose your entire customer list or anything? ;-)

Not necessary. Do a select * from all the system tables too, or generate the
scripts straight from the system tables Is possible at least in MS SQL. Is
something that I do fairly often when creting a replica of the prod
environment

Still that is the last resort. Should always be able to revert back to a
backup.

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v7 wrote:
> Yeah - and then rebuild all the table structures, indexes, data 
> permissions, etc.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. All that stuff *is* in the 
tables.  Usually in tables named something like sys.users, sys.grants, 
sys.tables, and so on.

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     Remember the good old days, when we
     used to complain about cryptography
     being export-restricted?

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v7 wrote:
> John VanSickle wrote:
> 
>> [1] Yes, those of you who live near The Villages in Florida may have 
>> seen this on the news.
> 
> When I was at school, the teacher *showed* us a bottle of mercury from 
> the chemicals cupboard.
> 
> Yes, it probably shouldn't have a disintegrated cork for a lid. Still, 
> metalic mercury is quite harmless. It's the oxide you want to worry 
> about. What that...? Oh... Yes, it does oxidize quite well in air.
> 
> Apparently the school was "probably not supposed to keep this stuff any 
> more". Whatever. I was *far* more concerned by the bottle at the back 
> labelled "WARNING: Explosive when dry" containing an amorphus dry powder...

Hmmm.... No, probably not good.

I was always intrigued by the metallic canister with the yellow and 
black international symbol for radiation on it, which resided in the 
physics classroom. Apparently in the later physics classes, they get to 
play with a Geiger counter.

> We also got to watch the teacher play with some sodium in a big water 
> thank. And then us students got to play with some... magnisium ribbon. 
> (Trust me, soaking magnisium in water isn't nearly so interesting. After 
> an hour, a few bubbles had formed...)

Our chemistry teacher used to do some after school sessions. I showed up 
to more than a few. One of which was begun by him handing everyone latex 
gloves, then handing is little chunks of a grayish, soft metal. Oh, 
yeah... and there was this big bucket of water ...

Sodium is fun. XD

He also filled a huge rubber balloon with a 2:1 ratio of pure hydrogen 
and oxygen. Then took a flame to it. People on the other side of the 
school campus heard the resulting bang.

Strangely, he was reassigned to biology the next year ...

Post a reply to this message

Michael Raiford wrote:

> He also filled a huge rubber balloon with a 2:1 ratio of pure hydrogen 
> and oxygen. Then took a flame to it. People on the other side of the 
> school campus heard the resulting bang.

Oh, and there was also the day we destroyed who knows how many pennies 
... I took the opportunity to "pour" the resulting brown gas (Nitrogen 
dioxide, I think?) from one container to another.

Judging from the Wikipedia article, a fume hood would have been a wise 
thing to use while doing this. :/

Post a reply to this message

Michael Raiford wrote:

> Oh, and there was also the day we destroyed who knows how many pennies 
> ... I took the opportunity to "pour" the resulting brown gas (Nitrogen 
> dioxide, I think?) from one container to another.
> 
> Judging from the Wikipedia article, a fume hood would have been a wise 
> thing to use while doing this. :/

Did you HAVE a fume hood?

(At my school, our science lab was equiped with Bunsen burners, clamp 
stands and some glassare. And that's it.)

Post a reply to this message

Michael Raiford wrote:

>> I was *far* more concerned by the bottle at the 
>> back labelled "WARNING: Explosive when dry" containing an amorphus dry 
>> powder...
> 
> Hmmm.... No, probably not good.

According to my dad, the label was an exaggeration.

(I got a chain email once: "You know you've been working in a lab too 
long when...

...you can tell the difference between the cheap lab coats and the 
expensive ones...

...everything is far less dangerous than you thought...")

> I was always intrigued by the metallic canister with the yellow and 
> black international symbol for radiation on it, which resided in the 
> physics classroom. Apparently in the later physics classes, they get to 
> play with a Geiger counter.

o_O

You get radioactive stuff just to prove the counter works?!

Actually, anyone who's ever played with one of these will confirm a very 
disturbing fact: Almost *everything* is slightly radioactive! Seriously. 
Everything I put near the thing registered very slightly. Including my 
lunch...

> Our chemistry teacher used to do some after school sessions. I showed up 
> to more than a few. One of which was begun by him handing everyone latex 
> gloves, then handing is little chunks of a grayish, soft metal. Oh, 
> yeah... and there was this big bucket of water ...
> 
> Sodium is fun. XD

I recall Sodium as being yellow... (At least, unless you get it. The 
resulting surface is silver, but corrodes faster than a Landrover.)

> He also filled a huge rubber balloon with a 2:1 ratio of pure hydrogen 
> and oxygen. Then took a flame to it. People on the other side of the 
> school campus heard the resulting bang.
> 
> Strangely, he was reassigned to biology the next year ...

Hmm... 0:-)

Well, my dad can't get fired from being my dad.

- When we ran out of matches, my dad used a mixture of glycerin and 
potassium permangenate to light the bonfire. (Actually, a small ant 
crawlled into the thick sticky glycerin blob moments before ignition...)

- My dad made gunpowder once. It made quite a bang...

- Apparently if you mix amonia and some other compound together, the 
resulting mixture explodes when it dries out. We smeared it over a 
cardboard box in the garden. For some reason, it only ever exploded at 
night... A succession of small pops and bangs.

- There's a trick you can do with (IIRC) hydrogen chloride. It absorbs 
water quite well. So if you will a bottle with hydrogen chloride and 
then put a tube into a tub of water, you get a little fountain inside 
the bottle as the pressure drops. For added amusement, add some 
indicator to the water. (I recall the blue liquid emerging in the bottle 
as a bright yellow fountain.)

- Flash powder. Finely powdered alunimium with potassium permangenate. I 
have no idea what colour the flash it actually produces is - as this 
point, you're usually just glad to be able to *see* again! (I actually 
put some of this stuff into the school bonfire - but that's another 
story. It seems I'm currently fresh out of KMnO4...)

Post a reply to this message

"Orchid XP v7" <voi### [at] devnull> a écrit dans le message de news: 
471b1ceb$1@news.povray.org...
> Actually, anyone who's ever played with one of these will confirm a very 
> disturbing fact: Almost *everything* is slightly radioactive! Seriously. 
> Everything I put near the thing registered very slightly. Including my 
> lunch...
>
Even more since 1986 :-s
One of the biggest lies from French authorities : "the Tchernobyl cloud did 
not pass the French boundaries"

Marc

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v7 wrote:
> Did you HAVE a fume hood?
> (At my school, our science lab was equiped with Bunsen burners, clamp 
> stands and some glassare. And that's it.)

Kids these days!  At MY school, our science lab was equipped with 
whatever brush fire happened to be nearby, a few pointed sticks, and 
some random stones!  Crazy teacher kept going on about turning lead into 
gold.

-- 
Tim Cook
http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-empyrean

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GFA dpu- s: a?-- C++(++++) U P? L E--- W++(+++)>$
N++ o? K- w(+) O? M-(--) V? PS+(+++) PE(--) Y(--)
PGP-(--) t* 5++>+++++ X+ R* tv+ b++(+++) DI
D++(---) G(++) e*>++ h+ !r--- !y--
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v7 wrote:

> Did you HAVE a fume hood?

Of course not!

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v7 wrote:

> 
> I recall Sodium as being yellow... (At least, unless you get it. The 
> resulting surface is silver, but corrodes faster than a Landrover.)
> 

Seems like it was a grayish metal with a cream-yellow colored crust over it.

> - When we ran out of matches, my dad used a mixture of glycerin and 
> potassium permangenate to light the bonfire. (Actually, a small ant 
> crawlled into the thick sticky glycerin blob moments before ignition...)

Almost as good as when I convinced my parents to order some potassium 
permanganate. I knew what would happen, and did the same on our back 
porch. My mom wasn't too pleased. My dad was a bit concerned. I didn't 
get grounded. They didn't quite know what to do with the rest of a very 
powerful oxidizer.

> - My dad made gunpowder once. It made quite a bang...
> 
> - Apparently if you mix amonia and some other compound together, the 
> resulting mixture explodes when it dries out. We smeared it over a 
> cardboard box in the garden. For some reason, it only ever exploded at 
> night... A succession of small pops and bangs.

sounds like nitrogen triiodide. Contact explosive... supposedly fun stuff..

> - There's a trick you can do with (IIRC) hydrogen chloride. It absorbs 
> water quite well. So if you will a bottle with hydrogen chloride and 
> then put a tube into a tub of water, you get a little fountain inside 
> the bottle as the pressure drops. For added amusement, add some 
> indicator to the water. (I recall the blue liquid emerging in the bottle 
> as a bright yellow fountain.)

I think I need a diagram to understand this one. the description of the 
set up is a bit unclear.. Hmm.

> - Flash powder. Finely powdered alunimium with potassium permangenate. I 
> have no idea what colour the flash it actually produces is - as this 
> point, you're usually just glad to be able to *see* again! (I actually 
> put some of this stuff into the school bonfire - but that's another 
> story. It seems I'm currently fresh out of KMnO4...)

Hmmmm..

Actually, I don't know if its the same for the UK, but in the US, 
potassium permaganate is apparently (according to Wikipedia) considered 
a drug precursor and is apparently difficult to get without going 
through all sorts of DEA procedures and forms.

Post a reply to this message

"Gail Shaw" <initialsurname@sentech sa dot com> wrote in message 
news:471a7343@news.povray.org...
>
> "Orchid XP v7" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message
> news:471a5fde@news.povray.org...
>
>>
>> Yeah - and then rebuild all the table structures, indexes, data
>> permissions, etc. :-S Still, it depends on how "vital" the data is. I
>> take it you didn't just loose your entire customer list or anything? ;-)
>
> Not necessary. Do a select * from all the system tables too, or generate 
> the
> scripts straight from the system tables Is possible at least in MS SQL. Is
> something that I do fairly often when creting a replica of the prod
> environment
>
> Still that is the last resort. Should always be able to revert back to a
> backup.

Yep it is possible and I may have a go at it.  Oracle Enterprise Manager is 
much more work to set up than the Recovery Manager.  Although I was earlier 
testing out the export on RMAN, OEM is more critical to preserve because of 
the amount of work redoing it.

RMAN has features that make life easier recovering from this situation: 
When a database physical backup happens, as well as storing its backup job 
info in the RMAN catalog, RMAN also stores it in the client DB's own 
controlfile, which is part of the physical structure of the DB.  So the 
database contains its own recovery information and backups do still happen 
even with the catalog lost, and it does all get sent to tape eventually. 
Secondly, Oracle version 10g (three DBs are 10g RMAN clients here) has a 
cool, easy feature:  In one command, all the physical files in the backup 
storage area are scanned, type-identified, and any orphan backups that are 
unknown to the catalog can be added into it.  It is easy to build a new 
empty catalog and then populate it with data from prior backups.

I expect much more trouble with preserving OEM objects.  I haven't looked in 
detail, but I expect it has a complex schema.  It would be best if I use an 
AppDev tool to pull all the definitions for all objects, because it would 
take much study and work to make a roll-your-own SQL script that reads the 
data dictionary and dynamically writes user object build scripts based on 
what it finds.

Selecting from tables, their column definitions and table data are only a 
small part of getting the data and structure out:  I have to get the entire 
application out.  I would also have to make SQL to recreate:

Table type (heap, index-organised, cluster, partition) Definitions of all 
indexes and constraints on each table, foreign-key constraints to other 
tables, tablespace and storage info, remembering again to do the same for 
each of its indexes.

Triggers on the tables -- PL/SQL code that fires before/after an 
insert/update/delete.
Sequences, including the number they are now at. (So new sequences are 
created from that starting point instead of starting at one)

Views -- named SQL that can be selected and joined as one uses a table in 
most places.
The program code stored in PL/SQL functions, procedures and packages.

Jobs.  Ugh, I know the least about these.  I'm sure OEM will have job 
schedules registered in the database engine.

I already have a script that dynamically builds a bunch of creation SQL 
scripts for such things as users (also preserving passwords by copying the 
encrypted value), roles, grants, quotas.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think that the normal 
procedure of building Enterprise Manager and discovering all the target 
Oracle DBs, listeners, etc, setting up the administrators, alarm triggers, 
notification pagers and emails -- bad as it is, it may be easier and more 
reliable in the end.  Certainly the final result would have vendor support, 
whereas one I made with manually-pulled data wouldn't, and you could never 
be sure that what you made works 100% kosher and won't blow up on you later 
or let you down in an emergency.

We will have an export of the OEM schema.  It is just oldish because it is 
before the exports began to fail.  I would try loading that before doing a 
full rebuild or manual script-magic-blue-smoke anyway.

-- 
Cheers,
  Brian

Post a reply to this message

"Brian Elliott" <NotForSpam@AskIfUWant> wrote in message 
news:471b6c5d$1@news.povray.org...
>
> Yep it is possible and I may have a go at it.  Oracle Enterprise Manager 
> is much more work to set up than the Recovery Manager.  Although I was 
> earlier testing out the export on RMAN, OEM is more critical to preserve 
> because of the amount of work redoing it.
>
> RMAN has features that make life easier recovering from this situation: 
> When a database physical backup happens, as well as storing its backup job 
> info in the RMAN catalog, RMAN also stores it in the client DB's own 
> controlfile, which is part of the physical structure of the DB.  So the 
> database contains its own recovery information and backups do still happen 
> even with the catalog lost, and it does all get sent to tape eventually. 
> Secondly, Oracle version 10g (three DBs are 10g RMAN clients here) has a 
> cool, easy feature:  In one command, all the physical files in the backup 
> storage area are scanned, type-identified, and any orphan backups that are 
> unknown to the catalog can be added into it.  It is easy to build a new 
> empty catalog and then populate it with data from prior backups.
>
> I expect much more trouble with preserving OEM objects.  I haven't looked 
> in detail, but I expect it has a complex schema.  It would be best if I 
> use an AppDev tool to pull all the definitions for all objects, because it 
> would take much study and work to make a roll-your-own SQL script that 
> reads the data dictionary and dynamically writes user object build scripts 
> based on what it finds.
>
> Selecting from tables, their column definitions and table data are only a 
> small part of getting the data and structure out:  I have to get the 
> entire application out.  I would also have to make SQL to recreate:
>
> Table type (heap, index-organised, cluster, partition) Definitions of all 
> indexes and constraints on each table, foreign-key constraints to other 
> tables, tablespace and storage info, remembering again to do the same for 
> each of its indexes.
>
> Triggers on the tables -- PL/SQL code that fires before/after an 
> insert/update/delete.
> Sequences, including the number they are now at. (So new sequences are 
> created from that starting point instead of starting at one)
>
> Views -- named SQL that can be selected and joined as one uses a table in 
> most places.
> The program code stored in PL/SQL functions, procedures and packages.
>
> Jobs.  Ugh, I know the least about these.  I'm sure OEM will have job 
> schedules registered in the database engine.
>
> I already have a script that dynamically builds a bunch of creation SQL 
> scripts for such things as users (also preserving passwords by copying the 
> encrypted value), roles, grants, quotas.
>
> Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think that the normal 
> procedure of building Enterprise Manager and discovering all the target 
> Oracle DBs, listeners, etc, setting up the administrators, alarm triggers, 
> notification pagers and emails -- bad as it is, it may be easier and more 
> reliable in the end.  Certainly the final result would have vendor 
> support, whereas one I made with manually-pulled data wouldn't, and you 
> could never be sure that what you made works 100% kosher and won't blow up 
> on you later or let you down in an emergency.
>
> We will have an export of the OEM schema.  It is just oldish because it is 
> before the exports began to fail.  I would try loading that before doing a 
> full rebuild or manual script-magic-blue-smoke anyway.

Ah yes, I forgot I would also have to include definitions for synonyms, 
materialized views and types.  There are likely more that I still haven't 
remembered.

Post a reply to this message

Michael Raiford wrote:
> school campus heard the resulting bang.

I had friends who worked at a science museum (the Franklin Institute) 
giving lectures and such. One day Tony filled a 3-foot weather balloon 
with hydrogen and oxygen, and put it on a long thread so it floated near 
the top of the lecture hall. (Picture a stadium-seating huge room like 
you see college lectures being given in in movies.) Then he points the 
parabolic heat lamp at it and turns off all the switches.

Kurt goes in, turns on all the lights, starts his lecture on liquid air. 
I walk in, and Tony is in the back of the room, going "SHhh! Shhh!"

About five minutes into the lecture, there's a kaBOOM that literally 
cracks some of the windows.  Kurt jumps about three feet, looks around, 
waves to Tony, and goes back to lecturing.

(This is the same Tony that couldn't figure out where the cardboard 
canister he'd stuffed home-made high explosives into went after he 
touched it off and blew a 3-foot deep crater in the dirt.)

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     Remember the good old days, when we
     used to complain about cryptography
     being export-restricted?

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v7 wrote:
> Actually, anyone who's ever played with one of these will confirm a very 
> disturbing fact: Almost *everything* is slightly radioactive! Seriously. 
> Everything I put near the thing registered very slightly. Including my 
> lunch...

In the USA, it's illegal to build a nuclear reactor out of quarried 
rock, as the rock is more radioactive than the reactor is allowed to 
leak. Seems kind of silly to me.

M_a_r_c wrote:
 > One of the biggest lies from French authorities : "the Tchernobyl 
cloud did
 > not pass the French boundaries"

As I understand it, the disaster got noticed because the workers in the 
Swedish nuclear reactors were arriving more radioactive than they were 
leaving.

On the other hand, some level of radiation is actually even necessary 
for good health. So it's all in the dosage, really.

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     Remember the good old days, when we
     used to complain about cryptography
     being export-restricted?

Post a reply to this message

"Michael Raiford" <mra### [at] hotmailcom> wrote in message
news:471b6742@news.povray.org...
> > - Apparently if you mix amonia and some other compound together, the
> > resulting mixture explodes when it dries out. We smeared it over a
> > cardboard box in the garden. For some reason, it only ever exploded at
> > night... A succession of small pops and bangs.
>
> sounds like nitrogen triiodide. Contact explosive... supposedly fun
stuff..

Crackle powder (I think). We had great fun with that at university. Scatterd
some across the cmp sci main office floor. Was a thick pile carpet. For some
reason we weren't popular the next morning... *g*

Post a reply to this message

"Brian Elliott" <NotForSpam@AskIfUWant> wrote in message
news:471b6c5d$1@news.povray.org...

> Selecting from tables, their column definitions and table data are only a
> small part of getting the data and structure out:  I have to get the
entire
> application out.  I would also have to make SQL to recreate:
>
> Table type (heap, index-organised, cluster, partition) Definitions of all
> indexes and constraints on each table, foreign-key constraints to other
> tables, tablespace and storage info, remembering again to do the same for
> each of its indexes.
>
> Triggers on the tables -- PL/SQL code that fires before/after an
> insert/update/delete.
> Sequences, including the number they are now at. (So new sequences are
> created from that starting point instead of starting at one)
>
> Views -- named SQL that can be selected and joined as one uses a table in
> most places.
> The program code stored in PL/SQL functions, procedures and packages.
>
> Jobs.  Ugh, I know the least about these.  I'm sure OEM will have job
> schedules registered in the database engine.
>

Dunnon about Oracle, but in MS SQL, all of those are stored in tables as
well and are scriptable, providing you know the right tables.

Post a reply to this message

Gail Shaw wrote:
> Dunnon about Oracle, but in MS SQL, all of those are stored in tables as
> well and are scriptable, providing you know the right tables.

And to the extent they aren't, you don't have a relational database. Of 
course, now with some places doing things like storing non-SQL compiled 
code in the database, it's more difficult to make valid backups just by 
copying data without copying structure.

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     Remember the good old days, when we
     used to complain about cryptography
     being export-restricted?

Post a reply to this message

"Darren New" <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote in message 
news:471b7099$1@news.povray.org...
> Michael Raiford wrote:
>> school campus heard the resulting bang.
>
> I had friends who worked at a science museum (the Franklin Institute) 
> giving lectures and such. One day Tony filled a 3-foot weather balloon 
> with hydrogen and oxygen, and put it on a long thread so it floated near 
> the top of the lecture hall. (Picture a stadium-seating huge room like you 
> see college lectures being given in in movies.) Then he points the 
> parabolic heat lamp at it and turns off all the switches.
>
> Kurt goes in, turns on all the lights, starts his lecture on liquid air. I 
> walk in, and Tony is in the back of the room, going "SHhh! Shhh!"
>
> About five minutes into the lecture, there's a kaBOOM that literally 
> cracks some of the windows.  Kurt jumps about three feet, looks around, 
> waves to Tony, and goes back to lecturing.
>
> (This is the same Tony that couldn't figure out where the cardboard 
> canister he'd stuffed home-made high explosives into went after he touched 
> it off and blew a 3-foot deep crater in the dirt.)

Two of my favourite things were tins of sodium hydroxide and rolls of 
aluminium foil.  Put together in water, they produced plenty of hydrogen, 
which I and a mate filled many balloons and garbage bags with.  Had to be 
careful, as it is highly exothermic and the mix can easily boil.  We used to 
tie sparklers to the necks, light them, and float them off.  The balloon 
would explode just as the sparkler got near the end of its burn.  Looked 
good at night.

I also used to make bangs with two large bolts, one large hexagonal nut and 
a lot of match-heads.  Half-screw one bolt into the nut, scrape the 
phosphorous from several matches into the well, screw in the other bolt, 
then throw it at a concrete surface or hit it end-on with a hammer.  Four or 
five heads was enough to make a bang.  Twenty matches was enough to make an 
air-splitting gunshot explosion.  On that occasion, one bolt completely 
stripped out of the thread and went so far from the point of impact that we 
never found it.

We were smart enough to duck behind a pile of rocks while it was still in 
midair.

And one strange thing:  Back when the flints on the sides of matchboxes were 
made more substantially than they are today.  Peel them off the sides of the 
matchbox.  Strip as much cardboard off their backs as you can, to get the 
brown flint/phosphor patch on the thinnest paper layer possible.  Place it 
face-down on a cold tin lid.  Burn it.  It fizzes a bit like a match head, 
but the flame is smoky and smelly.  Blow off any ash. You find an orangeish 
semi-liquid condensate on the lid.  Dip a forefinger tip in it, then rub 
your thumb and forefinger together.  White smoke rises from your fingers. 
In the dark, it glows when you do this.

-- 
Brian

Post a reply to this message

Gail Shaw wrote:

> Crackle powder (I think). We had great fun with that at university. Scatterd
> some across the cmp sci main office floor. Was a thick pile carpet. For some
> reason we weren't popular the next morning... *g*

And I thought you were such a *good* little girl... :-0

Post a reply to this message

Michael Raiford wrote:

>> - Apparently if you mix amonia and some other compound together, the 
>> resulting mixture explodes when it dries out. We smeared it over a 
>> cardboard box in the garden. For some reason, it only ever exploded at 
>> night... A succession of small pops and bangs.
> 
> sounds like nitrogen triiodide. Contact explosive... supposedly fun stuff..

Yeah - I recall iodine being involved...

>> - There's a trick you can do with (IIRC) hydrogen chloride. It absorbs 
>> water quite well. So if you will a bottle with hydrogen chloride and 
>> then put a tube into a tub of water, you get a little fountain inside 
>> the bottle as the pressure drops. For added amusement, add some 
>> indicator to the water. (I recall the blue liquid emerging in the 
>> bottle as a bright yellow fountain.)
> 
> I think I need a diagram to understand this one. the description of the 
> set up is a bit unclear.. Hmm.

Take a bottle of HCl gas with a cork and a straw. Insert the straw into 
a tub of water. The HCl is adsorbed by the water, causing the water to 
be sucked into the bottle forming a little fountain. If you add a pH 
indicator, you'll see the water go from 7 to (roughly) 3.

> Actually, I don't know if its the same for the UK, but in the US, 
> potassium permaganate is apparently (according to Wikipedia) considered 
> a drug precursor and is apparently difficult to get without going 
> through all sorts of DEA procedures and forms.

Apparently in the USA, so is LiOH... (How random is that? Drop some 
lithium into a vat of water and you have a controlled substance. Heh!)

Doesn't appear to be a problem in the UK.

Post a reply to this message

Darren New wrote:

> On the other hand, some level of radiation is actually even necessary 
> for good health. So it's all in the dosage, really.

"Oh well - a little water never hurt anyone."

"Yeah, but a lot can KILL ya!"

Post a reply to this message

Brian Elliott wrote:
> And one strange thing:  Back when the flints on the sides of matchboxes 
> were made more substantially than they are today.  Peel them off the 
> sides of the matchbox.  Strip as much cardboard off their backs as you 
> can, to get the brown flint/phosphor patch on the thinnest paper layer 
> possible.  Place it face-down on a cold tin lid.  Burn it.  It fizzes a 
> bit like a match head, but the flame is smoky and smelly.  Blow off any 
> ash. You find an orangeish semi-liquid condensate on the lid.  Dip a 
> forefinger tip in it, then rub your thumb and forefinger together.  
> White smoke rises from your fingers. In the dark, it glows when you do 
> this.

I'm begining quite concerned about the people I'm hanging round with... o_O

Post a reply to this message

"Orchid XP v7" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message
news:471b873b$1@news.povray.org...
> Gail Shaw wrote:
>
> > Crackle powder (I think). We had great fun with that at university.
Scatterd
> > some across the cmp sci main office floor. Was a thick pile carpet. For
some
> > reason we weren't popular the next morning... *g*
>
> And I thought you were such a *good* little girl... :-0

I wasn't the brains behind this one. Besides, I didn't have access to the
chem lab.
Most of the honours class was in on the prank.

Post a reply to this message

Michael Raiford nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 2007/10/20 23:29:
> Orchid XP v7 wrote:
>> John VanSickle wrote:
>>
>>> [1] Yes, those of you who live near The Villages in Florida may have 
>>> seen this on the news.
>>
>> When I was at school, the teacher *showed* us a bottle of mercury from 
>> the chemicals cupboard.
>>
>> Yes, it probably shouldn't have a disintegrated cork for a lid. Still, 
>> metalic mercury is quite harmless. It's the oxide you want to worry 
>> about. What that...? Oh... Yes, it does oxidize quite well in air.
>>
>> Apparently the school was "probably not supposed to keep this stuff 
>> any more". Whatever. I was *far* more concerned by the bottle at the 
>> back labelled "WARNING: Explosive when dry" containing an amorphus dry 
>> powder...
> 
> Hmmm.... No, probably not good.
> 
> I was always intrigued by the metallic canister with the yellow and 
> black international symbol for radiation on it, which resided in the 
> physics classroom. Apparently in the later physics classes, they get to 
> play with a Geiger counter.
> 
>> We also got to watch the teacher play with some sodium in a big water 
>> thank. And then us students got to play with some... magnisium ribbon. 
>> (Trust me, soaking magnisium in water isn't nearly so interesting. 
>> After an hour, a few bubbles had formed...)
> 
> Our chemistry teacher used to do some after school sessions. I showed up 
> to more than a few. One of which was begun by him handing everyone latex 
> gloves, then handing is little chunks of a grayish, soft metal. Oh, 
> yeah... and there was this big bucket of water ...
> 
> Sodium is fun. XD
> 
> He also filled a huge rubber balloon with a 2:1 ratio of pure hydrogen 
> and oxygen. Then took a flame to it. People on the other side of the 
> school campus heard the resulting bang.
> 
> Strangely, he was reassigned to biology the next year ...
In high school, secondary 3, the equivalent of 9th grade, in the "Initiation aux 
science physiques" class, me played with some geiger counters. We ALL got 
several samples of various radioactive materials: radiun pellets, uranium 
sulfide powder, radioactive iodine, radioactive cobalt, and some others... and 
tested whitch one gave the highest readings.
We did water electrolisis, then played with fire on what we collected. It was 
fun playing with sulfuric acid! The teacher told us never to touch that stuff 
with our skin, and let us see the effect on any substance we could think of 
available in the class, by ourself.
We made some black powder, and tested it.
When I finished going to that school, he was still giving that course, with the 
same substances.

-- 
Alain
-------------------------------------------------
We did not raise armies for glory or for conquest.
Thomas Jefferson

Post a reply to this message

Michael Raiford nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 2007/10/20 23:34:
> Michael Raiford wrote:
> 
>> He also filled a huge rubber balloon with a 2:1 ratio of pure hydrogen 
>> and oxygen. Then took a flame to it. People on the other side of the 
>> school campus heard the resulting bang.
> 
> Oh, and there was also the day we destroyed who knows how many pennies 
> ... I took the opportunity to "pour" the resulting brown gas (Nitrogen 
> dioxide, I think?) from one container to another.
> 
> Judging from the Wikipedia article, a fume hood would have been a wise 
> thing to use while doing this. :/
We,  also, did just the same, but with copper ribons, whires and shavings. There 
was nothing looking like a fume hood anywhere in the school! We did keep the 
class' windows open.

-- 
Alain
-------------------------------------------------
When the bosses talk about improving productivity, they are never talking about 
themselves.

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v7 nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 2007/10/21 05:17:
> Michael Raiford wrote:
> 
>> Oh, and there was also the day we destroyed who knows how many pennies 
>> ... I took the opportunity to "pour" the resulting brown gas (Nitrogen 
>> dioxide, I think?) from one container to another.
>>
>> Judging from the Wikipedia article, a fume hood would have been a wise 
>> thing to use while doing this. :/
> 
> Did you HAVE a fume hood?
> 
> (At my school, our science lab was equiped with Bunsen burners, clamp 
> stands and some glassare. And that's it.)
Bunsen burners for high temperatures and alchool lamps to just warmup things. 
Pegboards and peg clamps to hold up things. Some asbestos pads and tiles to 
receive hot things. Glassware, rubber and glass tubes, some we shaped ourself, 
rubber and cork stoppers, with and without holes in them. Some electrical 
transformers, wires, resistors and other stuff. I destroyed some transistors, 
like most others...

-- 
Alain
-------------------------------------------------
Scientology: If shit happens, see "Dianetics", p.157.

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v7 wrote:
> ...everything is far less dangerous than you thought...")

Until you spill it in your eye, of course.

>> I was always intrigued by the metallic canister with the yellow and 
>> black international symbol for radiation on it, which resided in the 
>> physics classroom. Apparently in the later physics classes, they get 
>> to play with a Geiger counter.
> o_O
> You get radioactive stuff just to prove the counter works?!

Of course, how else do you demonstrate it? We did the old experiment 
where you demonstrate the penetrating power of the three types of 
radiation... paper, foil and lead etc etc. Most radioactive material 
isn't that dangerous unless it gets inside you.

>> Sodium is fun. XD

And sometimes loud.

> I recall Sodium as being yellow... (At least, unless you get it. The 
> resulting surface is silver, but corrodes faster than a Landrover.)

It's stored under oil to stop it oxidising. And it's soft enough to cut 
with a knife or scalpel, then you get the lovely shiny surface inside...

Have you seen the video of people dropping rubidium and caesium into 
water? That won't be done in the classroom anytime soon.


:)

Post a reply to this message

Brian Elliott wrote:
> I also used to make bangs with two large bolts, one large hexagonal nut 
> and a lot of match-heads.  Half-screw one bolt into the nut, scrape the 
> phosphorous from several matches into the well, screw in the other bolt, 
> then throw it at a concrete surface or hit it end-on with a hammer.  
> Four or five heads was enough to make a bang.  Twenty matches was enough 
> to make an air-splitting gunshot explosion.  On that occasion, one bolt 
> completely stripped out of the thread and went so far from the point of 
> impact that we never found it.

Nice. I was always an aerosol-can-on-the-campfire person myself. 
Especially good if there's still plenty of deodorant in the can - you 
get a nice big fireball as well as the bang. Of course, best viewed from 
behind a tree twenty feet away.

My venture scout group used to do a christmas weekend away in late 
december - we'd rarely camp, but stay in the huts on this particular 
small campsite and do christmas dinner etc. One year we put a large 
aerosol can inside the turkey carcass and put it on the fire that we 
were using to burn the rubbish. Bits of turkey bone were landing a 
quarter of a mile away!

:D

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> Nice. I was always an aerosol-can-on-the-campfire person myself. 
> Especially good if there's still plenty of deodorant in the can - you get 
> a nice big fireball as well as the bang. Of course, best viewed from 
> behind a tree twenty feet away.

The real bummer is when it doesn't go off, and you're stuck behind a tree 
for 10 minutes...

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scott wrote:
>> Nice. I was always an aerosol-can-on-the-campfire person myself. 
>> Especially good if there's still plenty of deodorant in the can - you 
>> get a nice big fireball as well as the bang. Of course, best viewed 
>> from behind a tree twenty feet away.
> 
> The real bummer is when it doesn't go off, and you're stuck behind a 
> tree for 10 minutes...

Yes, we'd have a couple of those from time to time. If something in the 
fire collapses and the can rolls out... and sometimes the valve in the 
top melts and the pressure releases in a continuous stream. There was 
usually somebody drunk enough to approach the fire from behind a large 
coat or something and investigate.

This was eventually solved by simply using really bloody big hot fires 
to guarantee a clean detonation. (!)

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Alain wrote:
> Orchid XP v7 nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 2007/10/21 05:17:


>> Did you HAVE a fume hood?
>>
>> (At my school, our science lab was equiped with Bunsen burners, clamp 
>> stands and some glassare. And that's it.)
> Bunsen burners for high temperatures and alchool lamps to just warmup 
> things. Pegboards and peg clamps to hold up things. Some asbestos pads 
> and tiles to receive hot things. Glassware, rubber and glass tubes, some 
> we shaped ourself, rubber and cork stoppers, with and without holes in 
> them. Some electrical transformers, wires, resistors and other stuff. I 
> destroyed some transistors, like most others...

Yeah, I think our matts might have been asbestos too...

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Bill Pragnell wrote:

>> I recall Sodium as being yellow... (At least, unless you get it. The 
>> resulting surface is silver, but corrodes faster than a Landrover.)
> 
> It's stored under oil to stop it oxidising. And it's soft enough to cut 
> with a knife or scalpel, then you get the lovely shiny surface inside...

Yeah, I remember. But if you blink you'll miss the shiny bit...

> Have you seen the video of people dropping rubidium and caesium into 
> water? That won't be done in the classroom anytime soon.
> 
> 
> :)

Braniac did it.

Oddly, they couldn't get hold of any Francium...

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Tim Cook wrote:
> Orchid XP v7 wrote:
>> Did you HAVE a fume hood?
>> (At my school, our science lab was equiped with Bunsen burners, clamp 
>> stands and some glassare. And that's it.)
> 
> Kids these days!  At MY school, our science lab was equipped with 
> whatever brush fire happened to be nearby, a few pointed sticks, and 
> some random stones!  Crazy teacher kept going on about turning lead into 
> gold.
> 

At MY school, the periodic table looked like this:

      _______     _______     _______
     |       |   |       |   |       |
     |   D   |   |   R   |   |  Dg   |
     |       |   |       |   |       |
     | Dirt  |   | Rocks |   | Dung  |
     |_______|   |_______|   |_______|


--Sherry "Twelve Miles Uphill In The Snow" Shaw


-- 
#macro T(E,N)sphere{x,.4rotate z*E*60translate y*N pigment{wrinkles scale
.3}finish{ambient 1}}#end#local I=0;#while(I<5)T(I,1)T(1-I,-1)#local I=I+
1;#end camera{location-5*z}plane{z,37 pigment{granite color_map{[.7rgb 0]
[1rgb 1]}}finish{ambient 2}}//                                   TenMoons

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