Hi guys. I'm back.

For a while I've been hanging around the Haskell mailing list. But I've 
just been flamed yet again (and not by the same person either), so 
clearly I'm just not wanted there. :-(

But hey, you guys still love me, right?











Right???



















0_0

















Guys??

Post a reply to this message

"Orchid XP v7" <voi### [at] devnull> a écrit dans le message de news: 
471260c1$1@news.povray.org...
>
> But hey, you guys still love me, right?

Un Anglais? je me demande....

Marc

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v7 schrieb:
> Hi guys. I'm back.
> 
> For a while I've been hanging around the Haskell mailing list. But I've 
> just been flamed yet again (and not by the same person either), so 
> clearly I'm just not wanted there. :-(
> 
> But hey, you guys still love me, right?
> 

Who ...







Just kiddin ...

POV ist better than haskell ...
We are POV resistence  ... is futile  :-)
Have fun. Have POV.

Marc

Post a reply to this message

Marc Schimmler wrote:

> POV ist better than haskell ...

...isn't that like saying that Calcium Hydroxide is better than 
non-uniform rational beta-splines? (I.e., there is no suitable fitness 
metric applicable to both items.)

Post a reply to this message

"Marc Schimmler" <mar### [at] webde> wrote in message 
news:4712725d@news.povray.org...


> We are POV resistence  ... is futile  :-)
> Have fun. Have POV.



     Damn right! It is just *THE BEST*!    :o)



        ~Steve~


>
> Marc

Post a reply to this message

Le 14.10.2007 21:55, Orchid XP v7 nous fit lire :
> Marc Schimmler wrote:
> 
>> POV ist better than haskell ...
> 
> ...isn't that like saying that Calcium Hydroxide is better than
> non-uniform rational beta-splines? (I.e., there is no suitable fitness
> metric applicable to both items.)
But... I like NURBS!
and a substitute for caustic soda is always a good thing to consider
safely...

POV is the Best, no discussion.

-- 
The superior man understands what is right;
the inferior man understands what will sell.
-- Confucius

Post a reply to this message

Le Forgeron wrote:

> But... I like NURBS!

I cannot comprehend NURBs.

> POV is the Best, no discussion.

Ray tracers? Yah, it pretty much is... :-D

Post a reply to this message

On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 19:32:39 +0100, Orchid XP v7 wrote:

> But I've
> just been flamed yet again (and not by the same person either), so
> clearly I'm just not wanted there. :-(

It's always possible for people to disagree, Andy.  If we all agreed on 
everything, life would be boring.

Don't take the flames personally, just laugh 'em off.  It takes practice.

Oh, and welcome back. :-)

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Jim Henderson wrote:

> It's always possible for people to disagree, Andy.  If we all agreed on 
> everything, life would be boring.
> 
> Don't take the flames personally, just laugh 'em off.  It takes practice.

Well, as I say, this is now about the 5th time I've been told to shut 
up. And I've only been on the forum a few months. (And it's not even 
like it's always the same guy either...)

The first few times, I thought "hey, that's a bit harsh". But it's 
happened too many times now.

> Oh, and welcome back. :-)

Heh. Thanks.

Post a reply to this message

On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 21:57:03 +0100, Orchid XP v7 wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
> 
>> It's always possible for people to disagree, Andy.  If we all agreed on
>> everything, life would be boring.
>> 
>> Don't take the flames personally, just laugh 'em off.  It takes
>> practice.
> 
> Well, as I say, this is now about the 5th time I've been told to shut
> up. And I've only been on the forum a few months. (And it's not even
> like it's always the same guy either...)
> 
> The first few times, I thought "hey, that's a bit harsh". But it's
> happened too many times now.

Well, maybe then it isn't the place for you - maybe lurk for a while and 
see how people interact and then pop back after a few months.

Sometimes it helps to learn the dynamic of a group first.  (I actually 
lurked *here* for several months before posting anything)

>> Oh, and welcome back. :-)
> 
> Heh. Thanks.

:-)

Jim

Post a reply to this message

"Orchid XP v7" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
news:47128299$1@news.povray.org...


> Well, as I say, this is now about the 5th time I've been told to shut up.


   From what I can see, you're mixing with the big boys there Andrew. If you 
have faith in what you can say and do with Haskell, then back it up and 
front them with it. "Stick it to 'em Cap'n Mainwaring!"

   Those guys probably know eachother and go back a long way, (even with 
other languages), and then along comes the new kid on the block. Think about 
it for a while.  ;)

    ~Steve~

Post a reply to this message

Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> If we all agreed on everything, life would be boring.

  I disagree.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v7 wrote:
> 
> ...isn't that like saying that Calcium Hydroxide is better than 
> non-uniform rational beta-splines?


Ubergeek!!!

--Sherry Shaw


-- 
#macro T(E,N)sphere{x,.4rotate z*E*60translate y*N pigment{wrinkles scale
.3}finish{ambient 1}}#end#local I=0;#while(I<5)T(I,1)T(1-I,-1)#local I=I+
1;#end camera{location-5*z}plane{z,37 pigment{granite color_map{[.7rgb 0]
[1rgb 1]}}finish{ambient 2}}//                                   TenMoons

Post a reply to this message

Jim Henderson wrote:
> Sometimes it helps to learn the dynamic of a group first.  (I actually 
> lurked *here* for several months before posting anything)
I was lurking almost six months, I think.

I like lurking. It makes me feel sneaky. Woohoohahahaha. (makes ghosty 
motions with upraised hands).

Post a reply to this message

Bill Pragnell wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Sometimes it helps to learn the dynamic of a group first.  (I actually 
>> lurked *here* for several months before posting anything)
> I was lurking almost six months, I think.
> 
> I like lurking. It makes me feel sneaky. Woohoohahahaha. (makes ghosty 
> motions with upraised hands).


At least a year for me.....  maybe two


Tom

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> If we all agreed on everything, life would be boring.
>   I disagree.

What does it matter whether we agree or not?  Life is boring regardless.

-- 
Tim Cook
http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-empyrean

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GFA dpu- s: a?-- C++(++++) U P? L E--- W++(+++)>$
N++ o? K- w(+) O? M-(--) V? PS+(+++) PE(--) Y(--)
PGP-(--) t* 5++>+++++ X+ R* tv+ b++(+++) DI
D++(---) G(++) e*>++ h+ !r--- !y--
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v7 wrote:

> ...isn't that like saying that Calcium Hydroxide is better than 
> non-uniform rational beta-splines? 

Actually, cane sugar is much better.

Post a reply to this message

On 14 Oct 2007 20:20:25 -0400, Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:

>Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> If we all agreed on everything, life would be boring.
>
>  I disagree.

Damn.  You beat me to it!  ;-)

Post a reply to this message

"Tim Cook" <z99### [at] bellsouthnet> a écrit dans le message de news: 
47137cbc$1@news.povray.org...
> What does it matter whether we agree or not?  Life is boring regardless.

Life? tell me about!

Marvi(yaw)n

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 11:06:06 +0100, Bill Pragnell wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Sometimes it helps to learn the dynamic of a group first.  (I actually
>> lurked *here* for several months before posting anything)
> I was lurking almost six months, I think.
> 
> I like lurking. It makes me feel sneaky. Woohoohahahaha. (makes ghosty
> motions with upraised hands).

LOL!

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 20:20:25 -0400, Warp wrote:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> If we all agreed on everything, life would be boring.
> 
>   I disagree.

Thanks for that, Warp - funny guy. ;-)

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Sherry Shaw wrote:

> Ubergeek!!!

It's official. LOL!

Post a reply to this message

St. wrote:

>> Well, as I say, this is now about the 5th time I've been told to shut up.
> 
> 
>    From what I can see, you're mixing with the big boys there Andrew. If you 
> have faith in what you can say and do with Haskell, then back it up and 
> front them with it. "Stick it to 'em Cap'n Mainwaring!"
> 
>    Those guys probably know eachother and go back a long way, (even with 
> other languages), and then along comes the new kid on the block. Think about 
> it for a while.  ;)

In this instance, the problem seems to be that I stepped on somebody's 
favourit branch of mathematics. (I made statements that could be 
construed as implying that category theory is incomprehensible and/or 
pointless. What I was *actually* trying to say is that you don't need to 
be an expert in category theory to use Haskell...) I also posted an 
evaluation tree that contained a minor technical error (I mixed up a 
left-fold and a right-fold). So I got flamed to hell.

Interestingly, after I left somebody else piped up with "you're picking 
on HIM?? That's insane! He's one of the few non-PhDs who's actually 
interested in the language and you have a go at him. And people wonder 
why nobody uses Haskell..."

Maybe I'll resubscribe. There's some stuff I need answers to. But I'll 
have to make a habit of not saying *anything* other than questions and 
answers - because I'm really tired of being flamed every single damn 
time I speak...

Post a reply to this message

"Orchid XP v7" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
news:4714fd4c@news.povray.org...
> St. wrote:
>
>>> Well, as I say, this is now about the 5th time I've been told to shut 
>>> up.
>>
>>
>>    From what I can see, you're mixing with the big boys there Andrew. If 
>> you have faith in what you can say and do with Haskell, then back it up 
>> and front them with it. "Stick it to 'em Cap'n Mainwaring!"
>>
>>    Those guys probably know eachother and go back a long way, (even with 
>> other languages), and then along comes the new kid on the block. Think 
>> about it for a while.  ;)
>
> In this instance, the problem seems to be that I stepped on somebody's 
> favourit branch of mathematics. (I made statements that could be construed 
> as implying that category theory is incomprehensible and/or pointless. 
> What I was *actually* trying to say is that you don't need to be an expert 
> in category theory to use Haskell...) I also posted an evaluation tree 
> that contained a minor technical error (I mixed up a left-fold and a 
> right-fold). So I got flamed to hell.

     Ok, a mistake was made - no biggy. It happens. You *are* human, aren't 
you Andrew?  ;)


>
> Interestingly, after I left somebody else piped up with "you're picking on 
> HIM?? That's insane! He's one of the few non-PhDs who's actually 
> interested in the language and you have a go at him. And people wonder why 
> nobody uses Haskell..."

     Well, there you go. That was nice of him/her.


>
> Maybe I'll resubscribe. There's some stuff I need answers to. But I'll 
> have to make a habit of not saying *anything* other than questions and 
> answers - because I'm really tired of being flamed every single damn time 
> I speak...

   Resubscribe with a new moniker of 'PurpleHaaaaaaze' and give 'em some 
crap (code-wise) just for fun. Go frit. <eg>

   Don't take what's happened to you seriously. Those guys are bored out of 
their minds and you were the next best thing to having some excitement in 
their lives - really. They're probably embarrased that you know what you do, 
and were just looking to put you down because you're better than them. (At 
least, tell yourself that 10 times a day!)  :)

    ~Steve~

Post a reply to this message

>> In this instance, the problem seems to be that I stepped on somebody's 
>> favourit branch of mathematics. (I made statements that could be construed 
>> as implying that category theory is incomprehensible and/or pointless. 
>> What I was *actually* trying to say is that you don't need to be an expert 
>> in category theory to use Haskell...) I also posted an evaluation tree 
>> that contained a minor technical error (I mixed up a left-fold and a 
>> right-fold). So I got flamed to hell.
> 
>      Ok, a mistake was made - no biggy. It happens. You *are* human, aren't 
> you Andrew?  ;)

Indeed. And in fact, the discussion was not even *about* folds, so the 
error was entirely incidental and didn't in any way alter the point I 
was actually making, but still...

>> Interestingly, after I left somebody else piped up with "you're picking on 
>> HIM?? That's insane! He's one of the few non-PhDs who's actually 
>> interested in the language and you have a go at him. And people wonder why 
>> nobody uses Haskell..."
> 
>      Well, there you go. That was nice of him/her.

Yeah. And unprovoked... (He said that me and some other guy where the 
people who's opinions he most respected. Interesting...)

>    Resubscribe with a new moniker of 'PurpleHaaaaaaze' and give 'em some 
> crap (code-wise) just for fun. Go frit. <eg>

lolz!

>    Don't take what's happened to you seriously. Those guys are bored out of 
> their minds and you were the next best thing to having some excitement in 
> their lives - really. They're probably embarrased that you know what you do, 
> and were just looking to put you down because you're better than them. (At 
> least, tell yourself that 10 times a day!)  :)

Who are you trying to kid? I'm the only guy on the list without a PhD in 
some highly advanced disciplin. :-P

I guess it's just that I sit here all alone all day with nobody to talk 
to, and even on *this* forum I can't discuss Haskell (because nobody 
knows WTF I'm talking about nor actually gives a damn anyway). There's a 
lot of very intelligent people on the Haskell mailing list, but clearly 
people like me aren't welcome. And that really quite upsets me...

Post a reply to this message

"Orchid XP v7" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
news:47151d35$1@news.povray.org...
>>> In this instance, the problem seems to be that I stepped on somebody's 
>>> favourit branch of mathematics. (I made statements that could be 
>>> construed as implying that category theory is incomprehensible and/or 
>>> pointless. What I was *actually* trying to say is that you don't need to 
>>> be an expert in category theory to use Haskell...) I also posted an 
>>> evaluation tree that contained a minor technical error (I mixed up a 
>>> left-fold and a right-fold). So I got flamed to hell.
>>
>>      Ok, a mistake was made - no biggy. It happens. You *are* human, 
>> aren't you Andrew?  ;)
>
> Indeed. And in fact, the discussion was not even *about* folds, so the 
> error was entirely incidental and didn't in any way alter the point I was 
> actually making, but still...

    Hey, yeah, well... But did you correct the mistake afterwards on the 
list and explain?


>
>>> Interestingly, after I left somebody else piped up with "you're picking 
>>> on HIM?? That's insane! He's one of the few non-PhDs who's actually 
>>> interested in the language and you have a go at him. And people wonder 
>>> why nobody uses Haskell..."
>>
>>      Well, there you go. That was nice of him/her.
>
> Yeah. And unprovoked... (He said that me and some other guy where the 
> people who's opinions he most respected. Interesting...)

     Maybe he's the same as you, and learnt Haskell the hard way as you did.



>
>>    Resubscribe with a new moniker of 'PurpleHaaaaaaze' and give 'em some 
>> crap (code-wise) just for fun. Go frit. <eg>
>
> lolz!


    :)


>
>>    Don't take what's happened to you seriously. Those guys are bored out 
>> of their minds and you were the next best thing to having some excitement 
>> in their lives - really. They're probably embarrased that you know what 
>> you do, and were just looking to put you down because you're better than 
>> them. (At least, tell yourself that 10 times a day!)  :)
>
> Who are you trying to kid? I'm the only guy on the list without a PhD in 
> some highly advanced disciplin. :-P


  Stuff the PhD's. Really, ask them what they've actually DONE with their 
PhD's and you won't get an answer unless someone is honest and says: "I'm 
raking in a fortune and sitting on my arse doing... Nothing". Fair play to 
them, I told you they were bored...  ;)



>
> I guess it's just that I sit here all alone all day with nobody to talk 
> to, and even on *this* forum I can't discuss Haskell (because nobody knows 
> WTF I'm talking about nor actually gives a damn anyway). There's a lot of 
> very intelligent people on the Haskell mailing list, but clearly people 
> like me aren't welcome. And that really quite upsets me...

    Don't be silly, I'm interested. I'd love to learn some kind of language, 
and from all of your descriptions and posts about Haskell, it would probably 
be my first choice, (apart from maybe LUA because I've already learnt a 
'small' part of that from editing my own level with Sandbox1<Farcry Game 
Editor>).

      Anyway, when the HELL are you going to do *something* with *your* life 
Andrew! Are you going to be here in 2010 still moaning, or are you going to 
take the bull by the horns and actually DO something that we can be proud of 
at that time? Jeez mate, I can bet that a LOT of us here in these groups 
have gone through getting our lives sorted out, but the weird thing is, I 
bet none of us were *told* to do it - we just DID it because we had to.

     It's called... Life. (Which I feel you know absolutely nothing about).


        ~Steve~

Post a reply to this message

St. wrote:
> 
> 
>   Stuff the PhD's. Really, ask them what they've actually DONE with their 
> PhD's and you won't get an answer unless someone is honest and says: "I'm 
> raking in a fortune and sitting on my arse doing... Nothing". Fair play to 
> them, I told you they were bored...  ;)
> 
Hmm, is that your general opinion on PhD's or just these ones?
Just asking ;)

Post a reply to this message

"andrel" <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote in message 
news:471### [at] hotmailcom...
> St. wrote:
>>
>>
>>   Stuff the PhD's. Really, ask them what they've actually DONE with their 
>> PhD's and you won't get an answer unless someone is honest and says: "I'm 
>> raking in a fortune and sitting on my arse doing... Nothing". Fair play 
>> to them, I told you they were bored...  ;)
>>
> Hmm, is that your general opinion on PhD's or just these ones?
> Just asking ;)

    LOL! No, not my general opinion, and certainly not you guys, I have much 
respect for you guys around here. :)  No, it's just them, I think they're 
bored and Andrew was easy prey. But, fairplay to Andrew, I reckon he could 
match them in his knowledge if he put his mind to it. (That's probably what 
naffed them off in the first place).  :)

       ~Steve~

Post a reply to this message

>>    Don't take what's happened to you seriously. Those guys are bored out 
>> of their minds and you were the next best thing to having some excitement 
>> in their lives - really. They're probably embarrased that you know what 
>> you do, and were just looking to put you down because you're better than 
>> them. (At least, tell yourself that 10 times a day!)  :)
>
> Who are you trying to kid? I'm the only guy on the list without a PhD in 
> some highly advanced disciplin. :-P

So?  It's unlikely they all did their PhDs about Haskell, as Steve said they 
are probably just really annoyed that someone without a PhD could know so 
much about a language like Haskell.  They are just looking for any way to 
show you up so that everyone else remembers they are "better" than you.  You 
could always try to show them up by throwing in a few "in real life" or 
"outside academia" type answers ;-)

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v7 wrote:
> Hi guys. I'm back.
> 
> For a while I've been hanging around the Haskell mailing list. But I've 
> just been flamed yet again (and not by the same person either), so 
> clearly I'm just not wanted there. :-(
> 
> But hey, you guys still love me, right?
> 


This is a long one!



Andrew,
	I haven't followed the entire thread here so I don't know everything 
that's been said.
	I did take the time just now to find the Haskell list that this all 
happened on.  I even found the thread.  I didn't read all of the 
messages (Haskell is not my cup of tea), but I think I read enough to 
put in my 2 shillings :-)




shilling 1
New kid on the block syndrome
	We recently hired a new person.  Within 3 months he was telling me how 
I should do my job.  I've been doing my job for 8 years!  I have worked 
very hard to figure out the things that I have put in place.  Now much 
of that is actually being challenged.  But worse, the challenge is from 
someone arrogant enough to think he knows how it should be done.  To 
this person this makes sense and is what should be done.  To me I see a 
different point - I've been there before and decided that it didn't make 
sense and should NOT be done.  The biggest problem is that there is 
nothing in place to corral the new person's energy and utilize it in a 
good way.  The hardest thing is that the person feels that they are 
doing the right thing - even if it is completely wrong - and come across 
very arrogant and even condescending at times.  VERY FRUSTRATING

which brings me to

shilling 2
Old geezer on the stick syndrome
	How one responds to the new kid on the block is very defining of their 
character.
	Some sit up on a stick very high.  They use their stick to beat down 
those who oppose their thought.  They are right, you are wrong, and you 
better get in line.  A lot of the time they rely on authority to get 
things done because it is easiest.
	I admire those who have the stick, yet use it gently to nurture those 
who may not know as much.  They tend to reply on respect to get things 
done, and they earn the respect.




I think you are viewed as relatively new in the Haskell group.  The Mr 
PhDs (it seems there are a couple) see you as a nuisance.  They have all 
of the answers and when you post something they disagree with, they are 
there to set you straight.  They are sitting mighty high with their 
sticks up their....  I better keep it clean - this message I mean :-o. 
Not a lot of people are like this, but it only takes one to ruin the fun.

In the same token it seems that the way you are positing information is 
rubbing more than one person wrong.  Are you 100% sure that your answers 
are correct???  Or is it a gut feeling that is likely correct.  If it is 
the latter and you come across as the former, you are just making sticks 
longer.




This kind of stuff is all over the place.  I've experienced it myself - 
from both sides of the picture.  I've been the new kid that know what 
needs done and forces others to eat it.  I've also been the old geezer 
who doesn't know how to handle the new kid who knows what needs done.

What I am scared of is becoming one of the old geezers - a very bad one.
And I don't want to be the BAD kid on the block.

I work very hard to try to 'fluff' my input so that it is seen more as 
an opinion, or just another way of doing things, but not THE way.  Of 
course there are times when I believe very strongly about something. 
But having that stance should be user sparingly as it leads to being the 
BAD kid on the block.

I also work very hard in not slamming the new kid on the block (the new 
guy we hired).  I find it most challenging when he is being very 
forceful in what he thinks right and I know from experience or from a 
different perspective that he is not.  My natural tendency is to use 
authority to tell him to shut up - I try VERY hard to not go this route. 
  But if something hits wrong, it might come out before I can build a 
good response.
I really try to help the person see that their point is not fact as they 
make it, but more opinion and is not necessarily the only method.  Then 
I try to get the person to see some different view points that may 
contradict their view.  If they actually have a good idea, I try to 
recognize it and give credit where credit is due.




I find all of this VERY hard to do, and I wish I didn't have to deal wit 
it.  It is not my natural tendency - I am my way is the right way type. 
  So I by default am a very BAD new kid on the block, but also a very 
BAD geezer with a stick shoved....



So, the challenge in life is to use experiences like you just hit to 
become a better person.  To see behavior that you don't want to become 
and take steps to make sure it does not happen.



IMHO, maybe you could flip this whole thing on it's head.
Go back to the Haskell group and write a public message specifically to 
Mr. jerzy & co (in the subject).....  and apologize if you've offended 
him, state that you are trying to learn life (not just Haskell) and are 
working on it.  Just like him, you are working hard to learn Haskell and 
help others learn it.  Ask for him to help you when you mis-speak.  And 
tell him that unless he has tried to help that he has NO right to flame 
you like he has done in the past.
	Then if you get flamed again, don't try to defend you position to a 
flame, it's useless.  Just have a canned response - a good one can 
discredit their flame.  If you have a text doc with it, then you can 
just simply copy and paste.  State something like:

OK Mr high and mighty - whatever you say
Thanks for trying to help others learn something by using a flame.
I'm trying to give back to this group because I have gotten so much out 
of it.
If I am wrong is what I said, then help correct it so that we can all 
know better.

Respond the same every time.  Pretty soon your response is so expected 
that the flame has no effect and other ignore it.  This has a good 
potential for flames to actually build others' respect for you.


This way you are able to accomplish some things
You can learn how to approach things a bit *milder* and communicating 
better.
You can possibly help someone else do the same.
You can then get to learning Haskell.
IMHO, learning life is much more important, but not as fun, as learning 
Haskell

or

Your message to him starts a flame war so hot that it melts the group - 
but I think others would but on their fire extinguishers before that 
happens.



In my opinion (see, I'm working on this presentation stuff) the problem 
is not only the geezer - it is also the new kid on the block.  Hopefully 
you can take at least some good from this and move onward and upward.



LAter... Tom

Post a reply to this message

Tom Austin wrote:

> 
> Andrew,
>     I haven't followed the entire thread here so I don't know everything 
> that's been said.
>     I did take the time just now to find the Haskell list that this all 
> happened on.  I even found the thread.  I didn't read all of the 
> messages (Haskell is not my cup of tea), but I think I read enough to 
> put in my 2 shillings :-)
> 
> 
> 

Some phrases that might start to help ease things


Something I thought of...
One way to approach it is...
IMHO...
I think...
Anything that makes it more subjective and lends that something else 
could be true.



Some phrases that tend to not do good

You need to...
Do it like this...
Anything that makes your statement seem like fact with no alternatives.


Tom

Post a reply to this message

Tom Austin wrote:

> shilling 1
> New kid on the block syndrome

Yeah, probably.

> shilling 2
> Old geezer on the stick syndrome

Well, if you've seen the photos, there *are* a lot of people with beards.

(I recent survey found that 70% of people wouldn't trust a man with a 
beard to sell them a used car. Obviously, the missing information here 
is the percentage of people who would trust *anybody* to sell them a 
used car!)

> I think you are viewed as relatively new in the Haskell group.  The Mr 
> PhDs (it seems there are a couple) see you as a nuisance.

Yeah, probably.

The first time I was flamed, it was simply for talking too much. In 
fairness, I was generating approximately 70% of all the traffic on the 
list. (So... like povray.off-topic then! Except that's NNTP, and this is 
the much more primitive SMTP. If I say something, *everybody* has to 
read it. I suggested that they should switch to NNTP, and... got flamed 
again. Well, no, not "flamed"... just vocal disagreement.)

The second time I got flamed was for asking questions about things that 
aren't Haskell. (E.g., "what is Usenet?")

I don't remember what the third time was now...

> In the same token it seems that the way you are positing information is 
> rubbing more than one person wrong.  Are you 100% sure that your answers 
> are correct???  Or is it a gut feeling that is likely correct.  If it is 
> the latter and you come across as the former, you are just making sticks 
> longer.

Basically I stepped on the guy's favourit branch of mathematics. I wrote 
statements which could be construed as indicating that category theory 
is uncomprehensible and irrelevant. Now I know for a fact just how 
frustrating it is when every single human being I encounter thinks 
exactly the same thing about Haskell, so that's probably why I was flamed.

(Oh yeah, and I mixed up a left-fold and a right-fold. Not that the 
conversation was *about* folds or that it was in any way relevant to the 
discussion I was having... I just wanted an example to illustrate 
something, and I make a simple [and irrelevant] mistake. Oh well!)

> IMHO, maybe you could flip this whole thing on it's head.
> Go back to the Haskell group and write a public message specifically to 
> Mr. jerzy & co (in the subject).....  and apologize if you've offended 
> him, state that you are trying to learn life (not just Haskell) and are 
> working on it.

Actually, given how generally unwelcome I am, I think what I'm going to 
do is resubscribe, but simply refrain from posting anything that isn't a 
specific question or a specific answer. You know, talk like a machine. 
People generally don't get mad at machines. (Except when they break...)

Post a reply to this message

>> Indeed. And in fact, the discussion was not even *about* folds, so the 
>> error was entirely incidental and didn't in any way alter the point I was 
>> actually making, but still...
> 
>     Hey, yeah, well... But did you correct the mistake afterwards on the 
> list and explain?

Didn't seem worth it. To be honest, I'm tired of getting flamed every 
single damn time I speak...

>>>      Well, there you go. That was nice of him/her.
>> Yeah. And unprovoked... (He said that me and some other guy where the 
>> people who's opinions he most respected. Interesting...)
> 
>      Maybe he's the same as you, and learnt Haskell the hard way as you did.

I think the majority of people there have... Apart from the university 
professors, anyway.

>> I guess it's just that I sit here all alone all day with nobody to talk 
>> to, and even on *this* forum I can't discuss Haskell (because nobody knows 
>> WTF I'm talking about nor actually gives a damn anyway). There's a lot of 
>> very intelligent people on the Haskell mailing list, but clearly people 
>> like me aren't welcome. And that really quite upsets me...
> 
>     Don't be silly, I'm interested. I'd love to learn some kind of language, 
> and from all of your descriptions and posts about Haskell, it would probably 
> be my first choice, (apart from maybe LUA because I've already learnt a 
> 'small' part of that from editing my own level with Sandbox1<Farcry Game 
> Editor>).

Well, I've posted about Haskell before, but I think those all expired 
now. I can put something up on one of the off-topic lists for ya if 
you'd like...? (Including how to set up an environment to play with.)

>       Anyway, when the HELL are you going to do *something* with *your* life 
> Andrew! Are you going to be here in 2010 still moaning, or are you going to 
> take the bull by the horns and actually DO something that we can be proud of 
> at that time? Jeez mate, I can bet that a LOT of us here in these groups 
> have gone through getting our lives sorted out, but the weird thing is, I 
> bet none of us were *told* to do it - we just DID it because we had to.
> 
>      It's called... Life. (Which I feel you know absolutely nothing about).

Yeah, well, that's just it, isn't it?

We've had this conversation plenty of times before. It keeps coming back 
to the fact that I have no clue what TO do. Because I have no prior 
experience to draw on. And - judging by the number of times it's been 
discussed - nobody can explain it to me either. Maybe it's something 
that can't be expressed in words, I don't know...

Anyway, I'm struggling along as best I know how. It's just not getting 
me very far. :-S

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v7 wrote:

>>      It's called... Life. (Which I feel you know absolutely nothing 
>> about).
> 
> Yeah, well, that's just it, isn't it?
> 
> We've had this conversation plenty of times before. It keeps coming back 
> to the fact that I have no clue what TO do. Because I have no prior 
> experience to draw on. 
I am sure nobody had any prior experience.

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v7 wrote:
> We've had this conversation plenty of times before. It keeps coming back 
> to the fact that I have no clue what TO do. Because I have no prior 
> experience to draw on. And - judging by the number of times it's been 
> discussed - nobody can explain it to me either. Maybe it's something that 
> can't be expressed in words, I don't know...

What to do can mostly be expressed with words, but the understanding of it 
mostly can only be achieved though personal experience. You have to live 
life to understand it, not listen to other people talk about it (though that 
works well as a supplement to living it).

And people here have come with lots of suggestions as to what TO do.

Some of them you say you are too afraid to do. Being afraid of unknown 
territory is natural, sometimes you just have to do it anyway. This IS 
easier said than done, but we've all had to do it at some point, and come 
out stronger in the end.

Some things you don't see the point in, because they're not what you want. 
You're at A and want D but you couldn't care less about B and C (and you 
can't see how B and C are going to lead to D). Well, sometimes you have to 
take small steps at a time. And since you don't seem to know how to get to D 
yourself, it might help to listen to the people who have successfully gotten 
to D. So, for example, if people say, "Step B would be to practice 
conversation with random strangers that you're not really interested in and 
who you're probably never going to meet again", well, then perhaps doing it 
WILL be a step towards *getting girlfriend* eventually, even though it seems 
pointless to you now. You have gotten variations over this advice countless 
of times now. Also, you seem to completely refuse that *moving away from 
home* will have any effect on *getting girlfriend* whatsoever, even though 
you'd had pretty clear advice that it *will* make a difference. And no, it's 
not too expensive if you rent.

Also, to some of the suggestions you say, like, "Er, sure. I already did 
that." Sometimes you surprise us with the progress you've already done! You 
may not feel like you're getting far, but you're certainly going forward.

Rune

Post a reply to this message

St. a écrit :
>      Maybe he's the same as you, and learnt Haskell the hard way as you did.

Wait, you mean there is actually an easy way to learn haskell ;-) ?

-- 
Vincent

Post a reply to this message

"Vincent Le Chevalier" <gal### [at] libertyALLsurfSPAMfr> wrote in 
message news:47170514$1@news.povray.org...
> St. a écrit :
>>      Maybe he's the same as you, and learnt Haskell the hard way as you 
>> did.
>
> Wait, you mean there is actually an easy way to learn haskell ;-) ?

Yes.

Find a guy who already knows Haskell.  Kill him and remove his brain.  Take 
your brain out and put his brain into your head.

(There's a slight trick to doing this without also dying yourself, but still 
it's easier.)

Post a reply to this message

Brian Elliott wrote:
> 
> Find a guy who already knows Haskell.  Kill him and remove his brain.  
> Take your brain out and put his brain into your head.
> 

In light of the memory-transfer experiments done with planaria back in 
the Sixties, I wonder if might be equally effective simply to eat the 
removed brain.  This eliminates the necessity of removing one's own 
brain in order to install the new one, as well as the attendant 
necessity of relearning non-Haskell material, such as the names of one's 
close relatives.  However, it also introduces the possibility of 
contracting Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease as a result of the brain-eating 
behavior.  This risk might be minimized by a casual questioning of the 
chosen donor prior to the brain-removal procedure--for example, "Have 
you recently experienced episodes of myoclonus, ataxia, or 
hallucination?"  Regarding preparation of the acquired brain, the 
sources I have consulted generally recommend parboiling, slicing, and 
stir-frying with chilis, ginger, and some nice spring onions.

--Sherry Shaw


-- 
#macro T(E,N)sphere{x,.4rotate z*E*60translate y*N pigment{wrinkles scale
.3}finish{ambient 1}}#end#local I=0;#while(I<5)T(I,1)T(1-I,-1)#local I=I+
1;#end camera{location-5*z}plane{z,37 pigment{granite color_map{[.7rgb 0]
[1rgb 1]}}finish{ambient 2}}//                                   TenMoons

Post a reply to this message

Sherry Shaw wrote:

> In light of the memory-transfer experiments done with planaria back in 
> the Sixties, I wonder if might be equally effective simply to eat the 
> removed brain.  This eliminates the necessity of removing one's own 
> brain in order to install the new one, as well as the attendant 
> necessity of relearning non-Haskell material, such as the names of one's 
> close relatives.  However, it also introduces the possibility of 
> contracting Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease as a result of the brain-eating 
> behavior.  This risk might be minimized by a casual questioning of the 
> chosen donor prior to the brain-removal procedure--for example, "Have 
> you recently experienced episodes of myoclonus, ataxia, or 
> hallucination?"  Regarding preparation of the acquired brain, the 
> sources I have consulted generally recommend parboiling, slicing, and 
> stir-frying with chilis, ginger, and some nice spring onions.

...and people say *Haskell* is friggin' weird!! 0_0

Post a reply to this message

Tom Austin escribió:
> Orchid XP v7 wrote:
>> Hi guys. I'm back.
>>
>> For a while I've been hanging around the Haskell mailing list. But 
>> I've just been flamed yet again (and not by the same person either), 
>> so clearly I'm just not wanted there. :-(
>>
>> But hey, you guys still love me, right?
>>
> 
> 
> This is a long one!
> 
Indeed. tl;dr

*marks as read anyway*

*notes still 350 unread in povray.off-topic*

crap.

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