Anyone else playing Portal? I bet almost everyone here would enjoy it. It's
a short game but it's really good. $20 on Steam.

 - Slime
 [ http://www.slimeland.com/ ]

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Slime wrote:
> Anyone else playing Portal? I bet almost everyone here would enjoy it. It's
> a short game but it's really good. $20 on Steam.

I completed it last night.

Basically took about 2 days to complete. The initial puzzles are easy, 
but the later ones are really quite hard. The "party goer" scene was 
pretty nuts! The heart breaker scene is more tedious than difficult. 
[References kept deliberately cryptic to not spoil the surprise for 
anyone else who decides they want to play it...]

I'm now doing the advanced puzzles. The first few were tricky, but the 
final three are, as far as I can tell, mathematically impossible. (E.g., 
you have to walk into a room filled with sentry guns that cannot be 
disabled and place a weight on a button. The walls are all metal, so you 
cannot use portals. You must walk. This is obviously impossible.)

It's quite a... dark... game... isn't it? My favourite quote is still 
this one:

"Note that for this test, a penalty for failure has been added. Touching 
the floor of this chamber will result in an unsatisfactory mark on your 
record (followed by death)."

Also, the way the sentry guns talk to you in those cute little voices... 
"Come here please..." *shudders*

The song at the end is... interesting too.

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> Basically took about 2 days to complete. The initial puzzles are easy,
> but the later ones are really quite hard. The "party goer" scene was
> pretty nuts! The heart breaker scene is more tedious than difficult.
> [References kept deliberately cryptic to not spoil the surprise for
> anyone else who decides they want to play it...]

The "party goer" scene scared the hell out of me. I played the entire game
in one sitting so I was really immersed. I made it through on the first try
though so I was proud. The heart breaker scene wasn't hard once you figured
out how to do it (which took me about 10 seconds too long on the first try
so I just barely lost), but it's funny.

> I'm now doing the advanced puzzles. The first few were tricky, but the
> final three are, as far as I can tell, mathematically impossible. (E.g.,
> you have to walk into a room filled with sentry guns that cannot be
> disabled and place a weight on a button. The walls are all metal, so you
> cannot use portals. You must walk. This is obviously impossible.)

Haha. They can't shoot you if they can't see you. The next level isn't so
hard IMO, you just have to figure out how to handle the double door
situation. The final level took me some time to figure out how to get past
the first part, but then it's pretty straightforward.

> It's quite a... dark... game... isn't it?

Everyone I've talked to has agreed with me that it reminds them of the movie
Cube. At the same time, it's a very funny game. The combination of suspense,
humor, and solid gameplay is what makes it so great.

> The song at the end is... interesting too.

I can't get it out of my head. =)

 - Slime
 [ http://www.slimeland.com/ ]

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Slime wrote:

> The "party goer" scene scared the hell out of me. I played the entire game
> in one sitting so I was really immersed.

I know! I'm like "oh my God, what the hell?? That's IT?! No way!" It was 
like HL2 all over again...

> I made it through on the first try though so I was proud.

...and then I thought "hey, look, that wall isn't metal... I wonder..."

"What are you doing?! STOP IT!!!"

Muhuhuhuhu! >:-D

Possibly the nestest twist in a game, like, EVER...

> The heart breaker scene wasn't hard once you figured
> out how to do it (which took me about 10 seconds too long on the first try
> so I just barely lost), but it's funny.

Yeah, me too. It's easy but tedious. The only really hard part is moving 
quickly enough to miss the time limit. (And since you can't run...)

>> I'm now doing the advanced puzzles. The first few were tricky, but the
>> final three are, as far as I can tell, mathematically impossible. (E.g.,
>> you have to walk into a room filled with sentry guns that cannot be
>> disabled and place a weight on a button. The walls are all metal, so you
>> cannot use portals. You must walk. This is obviously impossible.)
> 
> Haha. They can't shoot you if they can't see you.

True - but when there's three of them arranged in a circle with a 360° 
field of view...

Seriously. It was quite easy to get that far (despite how impossible it 
looks), but I cannot get past that.

> The next level isn't so
> hard IMO, you just have to figure out how to handle the double door
> situation. The final level took me some time to figure out how to get past
> the first part, but then it's pretty straightforward.

I've looked at all of the last three levels. They all contain an element 
which is impossible. I can't solve any of them. And that's just boring.

One contains a room where entry results in instantaneous death. One 
contains a room with a port behind glass so there's no way to feed in an 
orb (even if the walls *weren't* all metal). And one contains a 60 foot 
jump and all surfaces are made of metal. All equally impossible.

>> It's quite a... dark... game... isn't it?
> 
> Everyone I've talked to has agreed with me that it reminds them of the movie
> Cube.

Is that anything like Sphere? (Man that film sucked...)

> At the same time, it's a very funny game. The combination of suspense,
> humor, and solid gameplay is what makes it so great.

Well, I scare easily, but I found it quite a frightening game...

>> The song at the end is... interesting too.
> 
> I can't get it out of my head. =)

I can't remember it well enough for that to be a problem. ;-)

All I remember is "...and the science get's done, and we make a cool gun..."



OK, admit it. How long did you spend admiring your character's ass? ;-)

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Orchid XP v7 wrote:
> True - but when there's three of them arranged in a circle with a 360° 
> field of view...

Just guessing, since my only familiarity with the game is watching the 
preview, but ... can you get yourself into the middle of the circle?

> I've looked at all of the last three levels. They all contain an element 
> which is impossible. I can't solve any of them. And that's just boring.

Have you watched the preview? It looks like there are some pretty 
amazingly difficult stunts you have to do.

> Is that anything like Sphere? (Man that film sucked...)

Don't worry. So did the book. ;-)

Is it possible to buy portal without buying HL2? I.e., as a stand-alone? 
  If so, I'll probably wind up installing Steam again when I'm done with 
my current games.

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     Remember the good old days, when we
     used to complain about cryptography
     being export-restricted?

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Darren New wrote:

>> True - but when there's three of them arranged in a circle with a 360° 
>> field of view...
> 
> Just guessing, since my only familiarity with the game is watching the 
> preview, but ... can you get yourself into the middle of the circle?

That would be directly in the middle of the field of view of all three 
sentry guns. :-S

>> I've looked at all of the last three levels. They all contain an 
>> element which is impossible. I can't solve any of them. And that's 
>> just boring.
> 
> Have you watched the preview? It looks like there are some pretty 
> amazingly difficult stunts you have to do.

Yeah - quite a few of the levels involve putting a portal on the floor 
and one on a wall. Fall through the one in the floor, pick up speed on 
the way down from the wall, hit the one on the floor again [this is the 
hard part!] and when you emerge from the wall again you now have extreme 
horizontal velocity! :-D

None of which helps you in a room where you can't place any portals...

> Is it possible to buy portal without buying HL2? I.e., as a stand-alone? 

Yes indeed. You can purchase "The Orange Box", but you can also purchase 
just Portal by itself. (Or just Team Fortress II, if you like.)

Go to the Stream website, download and install the Steam client (tiny), 
create a Steam account and browse the games list. Find Portal, hit "buy" 
and fill in your credit card details. Oh, and then wait a few hours (!!) 
for Portal to actually to download. It's quite... large...

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v7 wrote:
> That would be directly in the middle of the field of view of all three 
> sentry guns. :-S

Oh. I thought they'd be facing out. Obviously, then you have to get them 
to shoot each other. :-)

> Go to the Stream website, download and install the Steam client (tiny), 
> create a Steam account and browse the games list. Find Portal, hit "buy" 
> and fill in your credit card details. Oh, and then wait a few hours (!!) 
> for Portal to actually to download. It's quite... large...

Well, as I said, I already have HL1. I just uninstalled it for space 
reasons. And my ISP just bumped my cable modem speed up to 10Mbps, which 
used to be LAN speed, so I don't imagine waiting for the thing to 
install will be problematic. I usually don't mind waiting overnight for 
such stuff anyway.

Cool to know. I'll have to see if it works with my graphics card, which 
is getting kind of old. What happens if you buy a game your machine 
won't play? Is it smart enough to tell you that?

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     Remember the good old days, when we
     used to complain about cryptography
     being export-restricted?

Post a reply to this message

>> That would be directly in the middle of the field of view of all three 
>> sentry guns. :-S
> 
> Oh. I thought they'd be facing out. Obviously, then you have to get them 
> to shoot each other. :-)

It's quite hard to do this without dying. They shoot at YOU, not each 
other. So if you stand behind one, the others will shoot you, and 
possibly hit it as well. (This induces it to cry "No! Don't shoot! It's 
ME! Aaaaagh!" in that cute cuddly little voice I mentioned.) But you 
will be long dead before the gun gets damaged much...

>> Go to the Stream website, download and install the Steam client 
>> (tiny), create a Steam account and browse the games list. Find Portal, 
>> hit "buy" and fill in your credit card details. Oh, and then wait a 
>> few hours (!!) for Portal to actually to download. It's quite... large...
> 
> Well, as I said, I already have HL1. I just uninstalled it for space 
> reasons.

Yeah, that won't help you. HL2 and later are distributed on Steam, while 
HL1 was distributed on physical CDs only.

(I understand - haven't tried - that you can "activate" your old HL1 on 
Steam, and it will run it under the Source engine. Which... basically 
gives you slightly cooler water effects. In particular, no Havok physics 
or anything. Worth it...)

> Cool to know. I'll have to see if it works with my graphics card, which 
> is getting kind of old. What happens if you buy a game your machine 
> won't play? Is it smart enough to tell you that?

Probably not.

However, bear in mind that if you buy the game, you can play it 
*anywhere*. Go to any machine in the world, install the Steam client and 
log into your Steam account. Any game you've ever purchased can then be 
downloaded and installed on that machine.

(Since you can only LOG IN to Steam from one PC at a time, you can only 
PLAY the game from one PC at a time. But you can INSTALL it a million 
times of you want...)

So if it won't play on yours, you can always walk round to a friend's 
house. ;-)

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> True - but when there's three of them arranged in a circle with a 360°
> field of view...
>
> Seriously. It was quite easy to get that far (despite how impossible it
> looks), but I cannot get past that.

You have a huge supply of boxes at that point.

> I've looked at all of the last three levels. They all contain an element
> which is impossible. I can't solve any of them. And that's just boring.
>
> One contains a room where entry results in instantaneous death. One
> contains a room with a port behind glass so there's no way to feed in an
> orb (even if the walls *weren't* all metal). And one contains a 60 foot
> jump and all surfaces are made of metal. All equally impossible.

Oh, the room with glass you solve the same way as in the non-advanced
version, it just takes a little more luck. As for the "60 foot jump", you
need to find a way to get a portal on the floor above you, which means you
need to find a point in time at which you're high enough to see it.

> OK, admit it. How long did you spend admiring your character's ass? ;-)

Actually I didn't really find her that attractive. =)

 - Slime
 [ http://www.slimeland.com/ ]

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Orchid XP v7 wrote:
>> Well, as I said, I already have HL1. I just uninstalled it for space 
>> reasons.
> 
> Yeah, that won't help you. HL2 and later are distributed on Steam, while 
> HL1 was distributed on physical CDs only.

No. The CD I have, I installed HL1 from. Then I signed up for Steam 
(downloaded the virus-rocket-demo thing and a couple others) and it 
upgraded my HL1. Really, I have a Steam account.

> So if it won't play on yours, you can always walk round to a friend's 
> house. ;-)

I have trouble keeping the volume down enough to make my wife think I'm 
working instead of gaming, let alone running off to the office or a 
friend's house. ;-)

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     Remember the good old days, when we
     used to complain about cryptography
     being export-restricted?

Post a reply to this message

On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 10:23:37 +0100, Orchid XP v7 wrote:
> Slime wrote:
>> Anyone else playing Portal? I bet almost everyone here would enjoy it. It's
>> a short game but it's really good. $20 on Steam.
>
> I completed it last night.

Me too.

Though I before buying the game, I watched all the Portal videos on
youtube that I could find, so I knew pretty much everything starting
from the toilet till the ending song.

But some puzzles still stumped me for a hour or two, especially #18
where I couldn't at first figure out what to do after I acquired
the storage cube from the upper platform behind the large pit.

Still have to play the advanced puzzles though.

One fun I discovered which wasn't covered in any youtube videos was
about dislodging the cameras from walls, and taking large piles of
items to a distant location should you need them for toppling the
gun turrets.

Speaking of gun turrets, there was this one stage where turrets
could actually be placed on a button where a storage cube was
supposed to be placed, and hold the button down.

Then there were two or three hidden rooms with bean cans and lots
of text. Those were interesting.

I liked GLaDOS's murky humor though.

**SPOILERS BELOW**


"Deploying surprise in five, four, <clonk> Timeout for a second.
 Do you see that thing that fell out of me? What is that? I haven't
 seen it before. Nevermind, it is a mystery I'll solve later.
 By myself. Because you will be dead."
"You are kidding me. Did you just drop that Aperture Science thing
 we don't know what it does into an Aperture Science Emergency
 Intelligence Incinerator? That has got to be the dumbest thing -- wow wow."
"Good news. That was the morality core they installed in me after I flooded
 the Enrichment Center with a deadly neurotoxin, to stop me from flooding
 the Enrichment Center with a deadly neurotoxin."

-- 
Joel Yliluoma - http://bisqwit.iki.fi/
: comprehension = 1 / (2 ^ precision)

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On 16 Oct 2007 05:45:43 -0400, Joel Yliluoma wrote:
> One fun I discovered which wasn't covered in any youtube videos was
> about dislodging the cameras from walls, and taking large piles of
> items to a distant location should you need them for toppling the
> gun turrets.

Like this.
http://bisqwit.iki.fi/kala/snap/portal01.jpg

Forgot to mention, another fun thing was to incinerate the surveillance
cameras in the field at the end of the stage. Example almost shown here:
http://bisqwit.iki.fi/kala/snap/portal02.jpg


> I liked GLaDOS's murky humor though.
>
> **SPOILERS BELOW**

Forgot some words from the dialog, added below.

> "Deploying surprise in five, four, <clonk> Timeout for a second.
>  Do you see that thing that fell out of me? What is that? I haven't
>  seen it before. Nevermind, it is a mystery I'll solve later.
>  By myself. Because you will be dead."
> "You are kidding me. Did you just drop that Aperture Science
>  thing we don't know what it does into an Aperture Science Emergency
>  Intelligence Incinerator? That has got to be the dumbest thing -- wow wow."
> "Good news. That
thing you just did incinerate
> was the morality core they installed in me after I flooded
>  the Enrichment Center with a deadly neurotoxin, to stop me from flooding
>  the Enrichment Center with a deadly neurotoxin."

-- 
Joel Yliluoma - http://bisqwit.iki.fi/
: comprehension = 1 / (2 ^ precision)

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Slime wrote:
>> True - but when there's three of them arranged in a circle with a 360°
>> field of view...
>>
>> Seriously. It was quite easy to get that far (despite how impossible it
>> looks), but I cannot get past that.
> 
> You have a huge supply of boxes at that point.

I don't see how that helps. (And is 6 boxes "huge"?)

>> I've looked at all of the last three levels. They all contain an element
>> which is impossible. I can't solve any of them. And that's just boring.
>>
>> One contains a room where entry results in instantaneous death. One
>> contains a room with a port behind glass so there's no way to feed in an
>> orb (even if the walls *weren't* all metal). And one contains a 60 foot
>> jump and all surfaces are made of metal. All equally impossible.
> 
> Oh, the room with glass you solve the same way as in the non-advanced
> version, it just takes a little more luck.

To be honest, I can't remember the solution to the original one. 
(Although in the original you have a cube with you...)

> As for the "60 foot jump", you
> need to find a way to get a portal on the floor above you, which means you
> need to find a point in time at which you're high enough to see it.

Hmm... Maybe if I could fly...

>> OK, admit it. How long did you spend admiring your character's ass? ;-)
> 
> Actually I didn't really find her that attractive. =)

Oh. Dear... :-$

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>> "Good news. That thing you just did incinerate
>> was the morality core they installed in me after I flooded
>>  the Enrichment Center with a deadly neurotoxin, to stop me from flooding
>>  the Enrichment Center with a deadly neurotoxin."

"So sit back and relax while I warm up the deadly neurotoxin generators..."

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On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 18:27:41 +0100, Orchid XP v7 wrote:
>> As for the "60 foot jump", you
>> need to find a way to get a portal on the floor above you, which means you
>> need to find a point in time at which you're high enough to see it.
>
> Hmm... Maybe if I could fly...

Well, there are two ways to fly: One is "fling", which is placing a portal
high in a wall and another in the floor, and then jumping into the floor
portal, emerging from the top portal, falling into the floor portal the
second time, and then being propelled fast from the upper portal.
And the other is, I don't know what it's called but that you put a portal
in a floor and another in a floor significantly lower than you, and then
drop into the lower portal and thus you emerge fast from the upper portal,
and during the jump curve you can possibly place a new portal somewhere
you couldn't before.

-- 
Joel Yliluoma - http://bisqwit.iki.fi/
: comprehension = 1 / (2 ^ precision)

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"Slime" wrote:
> Anyone else playing Portal? I bet almost everyone here would enjoy it.
> It's a short game but it's really good. $20 on Steam.

I'd like to play it, but unfortunately the motherboard of my computer is 
sent to repair, and the laptop I'm using in the mean time can't handle 3D 
graphics at all. Maybe later.

However, I've played Narbacular Drop a year or two ago. It's free and I 
highly recommend it!
http://www.nuclearmonkeysoftware.com/

AFAIK, the people who made Narbacular Drop were the ones later hired by 
Valve to help make Portal, and it's very easy to see the that technology and 
gameplay is the same. Narbacular Drop is more children friendly and more 
primitive graphics wise, but the portals and resulting gameplay is almost 
exactly the same as in Portal as far as I can see, although perhaps not as 
adrenaline intensive.

So if you think the puzzles in Portal look interesting, but aren't prepared 
to pay the $20, give Narbacular Drop a try for free for starters! Or if you 
beat Portal and would like more of the gameplay set in a different universe 
(and see what Portal started out as originally) also try out Narbacular 
Drop!

Rune

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On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 18:15:43 +0200, Rune wrote:
> AFAIK, the people who made Narbacular Drop were the ones later hired by 
> Valve to help make Portal, and it's very easy to see the that technology and 
> gameplay is the same. Narbacular Drop is more children friendly and more 
> primitive graphics wise, but the portals and resulting gameplay is almost 
> exactly the same as in Portal as far as I can see, although perhaps not as 
> adrenaline intensive.

The same team indeed worked on it.

As for adrenaline intensivity, Portal is actually quite relaxing,
although the instructor voice in it is quite perplexing.

Also, comparing the graphics between
  http://www.nuclearmonkeysoftware.com/narbaculardrop.html
and
  http://bisqwit.iki.fi/kala/snap/portal/
I'd say Portal is less gloomy :)


But one thing that is in Narbacular Drop that would have been
great in Portal would be if you were able to create portals
through portals...

-- 
Joel Yliluoma - http://bisqwit.iki.fi/
: comprehension = 1 / (2 ^ precision)

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Joel Yliluoma <bis### [at] ikifi> wrote:
> Speaking of gun turrets, there was this one stage where turrets
> could actually be placed on a button where a storage cube was
> supposed to be placed, and hold the button down.

  There are a few levels which can be passed differently than originally
intended. Valve found these only in beta-testing and left some of them
be (because they required some ingenuity at that point in the game).

> Then there were two or three hidden rooms with bean cans and lots
> of text. Those were interesting.

  The best one is the one where the walls are full of stuff about the
companion cube.

> **SPOILERS BELOW**

  Taking a turret also rewards with funny lines.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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For some reason I didn't find the puzzles too difficult. Some of them
required some thinking, but I would estimate that even the hardest ones
I solved in like 5-10 minutes.

  I haven't tried the challenge levels yet, though. Those ought to be
much harder, I suppose.

  One of the coolest things was double-flinging (or whatever it was
called). It's quite easy after a few tries, and sends you flying quite
far...

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
>   For some reason I didn't find the puzzles too difficult. Some of them
> required some thinking, but I would estimate that even the hardest ones
> I solved in like 5-10 minutes.
> 
>   I haven't tried the challenge levels yet, though. Those ought to be
> much harder, I suppose.
> 
>   One of the coolest things was double-flinging (or whatever it was
> called). It's quite easy after a few tries, and sends you flying quite
> far...

...and this proves it. Warp is a drastically better gamer than me. :-}

(I *still* can't do the double-fling very well. Indeed, I'm still having 
trouble with a single-fling. It's just very hard to hit the portal...)

Some of the puzzles were really frustratingly hard, and took absolutely 
forever. Replaying the same 3 seconds of game for 20 minutes isn't my 
idea of great entertainment.

I've now cracked 4 of the advanced puzzles. The other two appear to be 
impossible...

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v7 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> (I *still* can't do the double-fling very well. Indeed, I'm still having 
> trouble with a single-fling. It's just very hard to hit the portal...)

  You are probably doing it wrongly and that's why it's so difficult.

  Double-flinging is pretty easy. First find a place where you can do it:
Basically a vertical surface at a high altitude, with a floor below it
(both surfaces should obviously allow portals). Create eg. a red portal
on the vertical surface, and then the blue portal anywhere you like, eg.
a wall nearby. Step through the blue portal and you will obviously start
falling down. As you fall down, aim directly down and shoot a new blue
portal shortly before you hit the ground. -> Fling!

  I think that many people haven't realized this "shoot a new portal
while you are falling" basic technique, which is why they find it so
hard.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
> Orchid XP v7 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>> (I *still* can't do the double-fling very well. Indeed, I'm still having 
>> trouble with a single-fling. It's just very hard to hit the portal...)
> 
>   You are probably doing it wrongly and that's why it's so difficult.
> 
>   Double-flinging is pretty easy. First find a place where you can do it:
> Basically a vertical surface at a high altitude, with a floor below it
> (both surfaces should obviously allow portals). Create eg. a red portal
> on the vertical surface, and then the blue portal anywhere you like, eg.
> a wall nearby. Step through the blue portal and you will obviously start
> falling down. As you fall down, aim directly down and shoot a new blue
> portal shortly before you hit the ground. -> Fling!
> 
>   I think that many people haven't realized this "shoot a new portal
> while you are falling" basic technique, which is why they find it so
> hard.

The main problem is walking through one portal, falling out of the 
other, rotating cat-style while in free fall, trying to figure out where 
the hell you are and which way you're facing, and... oh wait, I'm on the 
ground again. :-S

I think the game would probably be helped if all the walls *weren't* 
identical. It's quite disorienting enough walking through random portals 
without being easily able to see where you're going / where you just 
came from. ;-)

PS. In the time between writing my last post and writing this one, I 
re-completed the game with comentary turned on. (Or rather, I 
recompleted the second half of it. I did the first half yesterday.) The 
commentary is almost overwhelmingly dense at the start, and 
dissapointingly sparse towards the end.

Interesting note: The final battle seemed *massively* easier this time. 
Maybe because I know what I'm actually trying to do this time round...

Post a reply to this message

PS. Do you have HL2:EP2? I can't complete [what is probably] the final 
battle. It's just too hard.

The Hunters are virtually indescructible, and you only have about 20 
seconds to kill 7 of them, make 3 failed attempts at using the Magnesson 
Device and bring down the Strider. Oh, did I mention? THERE ARE FIVE OF 
THEM! Five Striders, each with seven Hunters. You have 20 seconds to 
kill them all.

I recall the G-Man's words: "A battle you have No Hope of winning..."

Post a reply to this message

> PS. Do you have HL2:EP2? I can't complete [what is probably] the final
> battle. It's just too hard.

I found it very difficult also. The trick seems to be taking out as many
hunters as you can before working on the striders, since the hunters destroy
the magnessons. You definitely have more than 20 seconds though if you
handle them one at a time. Taking down the hunters is the hardest part; you
can accumulate explosives ahead of time (bring them to the beginning of the
area, the choke point that all striders will have to pass through). You can
also take any hunter out with the alternate fire of the combine pulse rifle
(don't miss! quicksave ahead of time) or a couple rockets. When you run out
of those and explosives, try running them over with your car. When all else
fails use the shotgun.

If you drive around, and you should at first to make use of the items in the
more distant buildings, use the magnesson holder on the back of your car.
Later I found that I spent most of my time at the main entrance so you want
to conserve the items there.

If at any point a strider is getting too close, start using magnessons on it
even if there are still hunters around. If you've taken out enough of the
hunters you can sometimes get the strider anyway.

I wasn't happy with the way they try to humiliate you if you lose.

 - Slime
 [ http://www.slimeland.com/ ]

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>   For some reason I didn't find the puzzles too difficult. Some of them
> required some thinking, but I would estimate that even the hardest ones
> I solved in like 5-10 minutes.

That doesn't surprise me given your programming background.

>   I haven't tried the challenge levels yet, though. Those ought to be
> much harder, I suppose.

They are definitely more of a challenge. The "least portals" ones are all
worth doing. I also found the "least time" challenges fun, but the "least
steps" not so much. Also, be sure to do the advanced levels if you haven't
yet. Those are easier than the challenges but harder than the game.

 - Slime
 [ http://www.slimeland.com/ ]

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Slime wrote:
>> PS. Do you have HL2:EP2? I can't complete [what is probably] the final
>> battle. It's just too hard.
> 
> I found it very difficult also. The trick seems to be taking out as many
> hunters as you can before working on the striders, since the hunters destroy
> the magnessons.

This is a problem. The Hunters can't die. (Or rather, they can't die 
unless you unload your entire ammo supply at them for about 5 minutes. 
Then *one* of them dies. But there's still 7 others waiting to be 
killed. Oh, assuming they don't surround you and kill you first...)

> You definitely have more than 20 seconds though if you
> handle them one at a time.

Yeah, but... in spite of the radar, I can't *find* them until they're 
practically on top of the base. I then have about 20 seconds to take 'em 
out. (And they all arrive at once...)

> Taking down the hunters is the hardest part; you
> can accumulate explosives ahead of time (bring them to the beginning of the
> area, the choke point that all striders will have to pass through). You can
> also take any hunter out with the alternate fire of the combine pulse rifle
> (don't miss! quicksave ahead of time) or a couple rockets. When you run out
> of those and explosives, try running them over with your car. When all else
> fails use the shotgun.

I can't find any damn ammo anywhere. I keep ending up with almost none left.

The car seems to be the only fast way to kill a hunter. But the car is 
so utterly uncontrolable, and the hunters are so nimble... well, you 
don't stand much of a chance. (The only other way is the orb fire from 
the pulse rifle. But then we're talking 100% pure luck as to whether you 
hit or not. And you only get 3 shots in the entire game.)

> If you drive around, and you should at first to make use of the items in the
> more distant buildings, use the magnesson holder on the back of your car.

Damn right. All the other supply dealies have already been blown up, so 
every time I miss with a magnesson, I have to drive 20 minutes back to 
the base to get another one... :-(

> If at any point a strider is getting too close, start using magnessons on it
> even if there are still hunters around. If you've taken out enough of the
> hunters you can sometimes get the strider anyway.

This is basically what I'm reduced to doing. Hoping I can take out all 
five striders by pure pot luck. So far I've replayed the same 90 seconds 
of game endlessly for about half an hour, and I just can't take 'em all 
out fast enough. :-{

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Orchid XP v7 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> The main problem is walking through one portal, falling out of the 
> other, rotating cat-style while in free fall, trying to figure out where 
> the hell you are and which way you're facing, and... oh wait, I'm on the 
> ground again. :-S

  I don't see what's the problem with that. If both portals are on vertical
surfaces, you just walk through, like through a regular door, and "down"
will be "down" and nothing else. Just turn down and shoot before hitting
the floor.

  Even if one of the portals is not on a vertical surface, visualizing
the situation is helped by being able to visualize 3D space, like when
designing POV-Ray scenes in your head. :P

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Orchid XP v7 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> PS. Do you have HL2:EP2?

  Yes, but I haven't played it through yet.

  Once again Valve failed to disappoint with this game. It's very immersive
and addictive from the very start. I'm also impressed about the amount of
graphics and special effects they have succeeded in putting in the levels
and still maintain a very good framerate. (It barely doesn't reach the
level of detail of Oblivion, but OTOH it has a much better framerate.)

  I like the strong storylines of the HL2 series.

  Most FPS games have very weak, almost inexistent storylines, where the
makers clearly haven't put too many resources in them. You get an intro,
a few short plot details here and there, and an outro. Usually it's all
rather simple and not very worked. Usually even the little plot there is
doesn't seem to matter too much. It's more like "yeah, yeah, blah blah,
let me play already". Also the backstory often is very detached from the
game itself.

  Not so with the HL2 series. The stories are believable and interesting,
and they have clearly put a lot of effort in merging the plot and the
gameplay, to make it more interesting.

  In the past some FPS games have tried the concept of NPC sidekicks, and
usually failed miserably. Usually these sidekicks are completely useless,
annoying and more a burden than anything else (especially if them dying
means game over).
  In some games mandatory sidekicks are extremely stupid. A very prominent
example is Oblivion, where it feels like your allies are constantly moving
to your line of fire, so that you will hit them instead of the enemy. It
gets really irritating very soon, especially when there's a bad consequence
of hitting an ally (such as being expelled from a guild).

  Again, not so in the HL2 series, especially episodes 1 and 2. The
sidekicks are actually helpful and not annoying at all. They really are
very strong allies in fighting, and they mostly know how to keep out
of your way (even though I think you couldn't even hurt them even if
you shoot at them, but it's good that they keep out of your line of fire
just for visibility reasons if nothing else). Also if they are blocking
your way in a narrow passage, they usually move away quite promptly when
needed.
  Also, the allies (especially Alyx) are not just dumb gameplay elements,
but add to the plot. They act, they tell you things, and they direct your
attention to events (one good example being the beginning of Episode 2,
where Alyx tells you to look at the railway bridge).

<nerd mode>
  It's also cool to drive with Alyx at your side. It almost feels like
in a date.
</nerd mode>

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Warp wrote:

>   Once again Valve failed to disappoint with this game. It's very immersive
> and addictive from the very start. I'm also impressed about the amount of
> graphics and special effects they have succeeded in putting in the levels
> and still maintain a very good framerate. (It barely doesn't reach the
> level of detail of Oblivion, but OTOH it has a much better framerate.)

As I have written previously, I have been quite dissapointed with HL2 
and HL2:EP1.

*This* game, however, is FUN. (Remember fun? Fun is good...)

>   I like the strong storylines of the HL2 series.
> 
>   Most FPS games have very weak, almost inexistent storylines, where the
> makers clearly haven't put too many resources in them.

...as in, "you are the last survivor, trapped alone on the alien 
homeworld. Try to stay alive!"

>   Not so with the HL2 series. The stories are believable and interesting,
> and they have clearly put a lot of effort in merging the plot and the
> gameplay, to make it more interesting.

HL1 kind of had more of a concept of a story than most. (In particular, 
you play through the beginning of the "story" - which was novel at the 
time.) HL2 takes it slightly further. But it's really EP1 and EP2 where 
the story element becomes quite strong.

>   In the past some FPS games have tried the concept of NPC sidekicks, and
> usually failed miserably.

Yeah, this is a rather tough game design challenge.

Real humans possess a level of intelligence that AI designers can 
currently only dream about. So you have to somehow make an NPC who won't 
die too easily, but isn't too invincible either. They have to be able to 
help you in a battle, but not win the whole thing for you. And - 
possibly hardest of all - they have to act believably whatever the 
player decides to do. (How the heck are the designers supposed to 
anticipate that one? Well, they can't really...)

>   Again, not so in the HL2 series, especially episodes 1 and 2. The
> sidekicks are actually helpful and not annoying at all. They really are
> very strong allies in fighting, and they mostly know how to keep out
> of your way. Also if they are blocking
> your way in a narrow passage, they usually move away quite promptly when
> needed.

Especially in HL2, allies getting in your way seemed to be a constant 
problem. They seem to have fixed this in EP1 and EP2.

>   Also, the allies (especially Alyx) are not just dumb gameplay elements,
> but add to the plot.

Some *real* plot twists in EP2... heh. (What the heck is that G-Man 
actually up to, anyway?)

> <nerd mode>
>   It's also cool to drive with Alyx at your side. It almost feels like
> in a date.
> </nerd mode>

<ubernerd mode>
   I'll have to take your word for that one...
</ubernerd mode>

(BTW, is there a *reason* why she always has to climb into the car 
starting from your side? What's wrong with the *door* on her side?? Is 
it just so you get to have a look at her cute high-polygon butt?)

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Orchid XP v7 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> (BTW, is there a *reason* why she always has to climb into the car 
> starting from your side? What's wrong with the *door* on her side?? Is 
> it just so you get to have a look at her cute high-polygon butt?)

  I suppose that the AI can't know if you are going to enter the car or
not, so it just follows you as usual. If you do enter the car, then a
pre-determined animation is played when she enters the car too. I suppose
that they noticed that if she just walked around the car you could just
drive away and let her behind, so with this pre-determined animation they
made it impossible to do so, while still looking at least somewhat convincing.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Orchid XP v7 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> The Hunters are virtually indescructible, and you only have about 20 
> seconds to kill 7 of them

  You have to go where the striders are, not wait until they come to you.
First kill the hunters. The car is a good weapon for this, but you can also
use the rocket launcher, etc. Once they are out, killing the strider is
relatively simple.

  The end is rather... disturbing.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Warp wrote:
> Orchid XP v7 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>> The Hunters are virtually indescructible, and you only have about 20 
>> seconds to kill 7 of them
> 
>   You have to go where the striders are, not wait until they come to you.

Even with the radar, it's extremely hard to find them.

And, assuming you find them, you're now in a place with no ammo or 
supplies...

> First kill the hunters. The car is a good weapon for this, but you can also
> use the rocket launcher, etc. Once they are out, killing the strider is
> relatively simple.

The car *is* good for killing them, but it's extremely hard to steer. 
(Let's face it, try driving a *real* car at more than 5 MPH while 
snapping the steering onto hard lock...) And the hunters easily step out 
of your way.

I tried the rocket launcher and the orb from the pulse rifle, but 
rapidly ran out of ammo. The machine gun takes forever to take 'em 
out... :-(

>   The end is rather... disturbing.

Yeah, well, if I ever get that far... :-}

(Don't you just love games where the final climactic battle is *so* 
climactic that it takes 5 times longer than the rest of the game put 
together?)

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On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 22:10:58 +0100, Orchid XP v7 wrote:
> The main problem is walking through one portal, falling out of the 
> other, rotating cat-style while in free fall, trying to figure out where 
> the hell you are and which way you're facing, and... oh wait, I'm on the 
> ground again. :-S

Precisely the same problem here. It looks so easy when the people
who post at youtube do it, but when I do it, I'm almost never facing
the correct direction when raising up from a portal placed in floor
after falling through another also in the floor (yes, talking about
level 18).

Also regarding the puzzles, I'm impressed at Warp's acute sense of
solutions. I was stuck somewhere for a long time, and ended up inventing
"wrong" solutions at a couple of places instead of much simpler ones.

But I'm no gamer, this is the first video game _ever_ that I have bought.

-- 
Joel Yliluoma - http://bisqwit.iki.fi/
: comprehension = 1 / (2 ^ precision)

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Orchid XP v7 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> I tried the rocket launcher and the orb from the pulse rifle, but 
> rapidly ran out of ammo. The machine gun takes forever to take 'em 
> out... :-(

  One thing you can try is to catch one of the hunter's explosives with
the gravity gun and throw it back. Easier said than done, but they are
pretty effective when you succeed...

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Warp wrote:
> Orchid XP v7 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>> I tried the rocket launcher and the orb from the pulse rifle, but 
>> rapidly ran out of ammo. The machine gun takes forever to take 'em 
>> out... :-(
> 
>   One thing you can try is to catch one of the hunter's explosives with
> the gravity gun and throw it back. Easier said than done, but they are
> pretty effective when you succeed...

Interesting concept...

I've never been really good with the gravity gun. I mean, you point it 
at some huge metal barrel, press the button, and it picks up a tiny 
pebble 6 feet to the left of what you're pointing at. WTH?

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