Hi there,

    I'm trying to model (amongst other things) a LED.  Building the shape
has not really been a problem, but now I want to be able to include a light
inside it so I can make the LED light up (obviously).  I'm having trouble
getting the light to look right.  So far it either floods the scene with
light (i.e. too intense) or merely makes the LED structure look like it has
a shiny surface texture.  What I would like is that nice glow that looks so
simple and easy!

    Also, at this stage I've been colouring the LED itself and using a white
(or near-white light).  Would it be better to have a clear LED and a
coloured light?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Neil.

Post a reply to this message

Neil Mercer wrote:

> Hi there,
>
>     I'm trying to model (amongst other things) a LED.  Building the shape
> has not really been a problem, but now I want to be able to include a light
> inside it so I can make the LED light up (obviously).  I'm having trouble
> getting the light to look right.  So far it either floods the scene with
> light (i.e. too intense) or merely makes the LED structure look like it has
> a shiny surface texture.  What I would like is that nice glow that looks so
> simple and easy!
>
>     Also, at this stage I've been colouring the LED itself and using a white
> (or near-white light).  Would it be better to have a clear LED and a
> coloured light?
>
> Thanks in advance for any help.
>
> Neil.

  Instead of thinking of it as a light source think instead of it as
a glowing object. One trick you might try is making your LED
texture semi-transpearent. Then inside of it plant a seed that
will be the glow source. If you add a very high ambient finish
to it it will more realisticaly model a glowing effect than a light
source will.

example:
assumes your LED is 1 unit in size adjust accordingly.

object{LED
 pigment{rgbf<1,0,0,.8}}

sphere{<0,0,0>,0.1
 pigment{rgb<1,0,0>}
  finish{ambient 3}// adjust to desired effect
}

Ken Tyler

Post a reply to this message

I have another good way to model LED's although its no good if you want to be able
to see the entire LED itself. This is best for modeling the LED's you see on
electronics like the three LED's on your CPU hard drive, turbo and power. What you
do is create, using CSG's a small room behind where you want the LED to be, make
this room have a 100% reflective texture. Then cut a small hole the shape of the
LED from the hole to the surface of you object. Now create a small coloured panel
and place it in front of the room, but a little away from the surface of the
object. Now create a light and place it in the room. When rendered this creates a
very realistic glowing effect. Below is a picture of mine which shoes this effect,
look at the CPU case, and the keyboard.

___________     _     |____Surface of object.
|                     |__|_|__|
|  Small Room     |  |________Coloured LED panel
|                      __|_|__
|___________|   |_|   |
                                 |


Ken wrote:

> Neil Mercer wrote:
>
> > Hi there,
> >
> >     I'm trying to model (amongst other things) a LED.  Building the shape
> > has not really been a problem, but now I want to be able to include a light
> > inside it so I can make the LED light up (obviously).  I'm having trouble
> > getting the light to look right.  So far it either floods the scene with
> > light (i.e. too intense) or merely makes the LED structure look like it has
> > a shiny surface texture.  What I would like is that nice glow that looks so
> > simple and easy!
> >
> >     Also, at this stage I've been colouring the LED itself and using a white
> > (or near-white light).  Would it be better to have a clear LED and a
> > coloured light?
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any help.
> >
> > Neil.
>
>   Instead of thinking of it as a light source think instead of it as
> a glowing object. One trick you might try is making your LED
> texture semi-transpearent. Then inside of it plant a seed that
> will be the glow source. If you add a very high ambient finish
> to it it will more realisticaly model a glowing effect than a light
> source will.
>
> example:
> assumes your LED is 1 unit in size adjust accordingly.
>
> object{LED
>  pigment{rgbf<1,0,0,.8}}
>
> sphere{<0,0,0>,0.1
>  pigment{rgb<1,0,0>}
>   finish{ambient 3}// adjust to desired effect
> }
>
> Ken Tyler

Post a reply to this message

Attachments:
Download 'computer desk.jpg' (43 KB)

Preview of image 'computer desk.jpg'

Opps Sorry about the illustraion, it got messed up when it posted it.

Thomas Lake wrote:

> I have another good way to model LED's although its no good if you want to be able
> to see the entire LED itself. This is best for modeling the LED's you see on
> electronics like the three LED's on your CPU hard drive, turbo and power. What you
> do is create, using CSG's a small room behind where you want the LED to be, make
> this room have a 100% reflective texture. Then cut a small hole the shape of the
> LED from the hole to the surface of you object. Now create a small coloured panel
> and place it in front of the room, but a little away from the surface of the
> object. Now create a light and place it in the room. When rendered this creates a
> very realistic glowing effect. Below is a picture of mine which shoes this effect,
> look at the CPU case, and the keyboard.
>
> ___________     _     |____Surface of object.
> |                     |__|_|__|
> |  Small Room     |  |________Coloured LED panel
> |                      __|_|__
> |___________|   |_|   |
>                                  |
>
> Ken wrote:
>
> > Neil Mercer wrote:
> >
> > > Hi there,
> > >
> > >     I'm trying to model (amongst other things) a LED.  Building the shape
> > > has not really been a problem, but now I want to be able to include a light
> > > inside it so I can make the LED light up (obviously).  I'm having trouble
> > > getting the light to look right.  So far it either floods the scene with
> > > light (i.e. too intense) or merely makes the LED structure look like it has
> > > a shiny surface texture.  What I would like is that nice glow that looks so
> > > simple and easy!
> > >
> > >     Also, at this stage I've been colouring the LED itself and using a white
> > > (or near-white light).  Would it be better to have a clear LED and a
> > > coloured light?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance for any help.
> > >
> > > Neil.
> >
> >   Instead of thinking of it as a light source think instead of it as
> > a glowing object. One trick you might try is making your LED
> > texture semi-transpearent. Then inside of it plant a seed that
> > will be the glow source. If you add a very high ambient finish
> > to it it will more realisticaly model a glowing effect than a light
> > source will.
> >
> > example:
> > assumes your LED is 1 unit in size adjust accordingly.
> >
> > object{LED
> >  pigment{rgbf<1,0,0,.8}}
> >
> > sphere{<0,0,0>,0.1
> >  pigment{rgb<1,0,0>}
> >   finish{ambient 3}// adjust to desired effect
> > }
> >
> > Ken Tyler
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  [Image]

Post a reply to this message

Neil Mercer wrote:

> Hi there,
>
>     I'm trying to model (amongst other things) a LED.  Building the shape
> has not really been a problem, but now I want to be able to include a light
> inside it so I can make the LED light up (obviously).  I'm having trouble
> getting the light to look right.  So far it either floods the scene with
> light (i.e. too intense) or merely makes the LED structure look like it has
> a shiny surface texture.  What I would like is that nice glow that looks so
> simple and easy!
>
>     Also, at this stage I've been colouring the LED itself and using a white
> (or near-white light).  Would it be better to have a clear LED and a
> coloured light?

May I reccomend not trying to make a light in the bulb. instead, make the bulb
with a high ambiant level, so it looks lit (without any light source) then place
the coloured source inside, with the bulb set to "No Shadow" so the light will
shine through. Works much better than trying to get the bulb to actually filter
the light, which is terrible to get to look right...

Also, for a glow you might want to play around with the lens flares, or for just
emitted light, set a fade distance so it will light up just the nearby
neighborhood, and not the entire scene.

If this is confusing (not good at explaining things :)  I can make up a little
.mdl with this example.....

Simon
http://home.istar.ca/~sdevet

Post a reply to this message

In povray.newusers Neil Mercer <nme### [at] mercersconz> wrote:
:     I'm trying to model (amongst other things) a LED.  Building the shape
: has not really been a problem, but now I want to be able to include a light
: inside it so I can make the LED light up (obviously).  I'm having trouble
: getting the light to look right.  So far it either floods the scene with
: light (i.e. too intense) or merely makes the LED structure look like it has
: a shiny surface texture.  What I would like is that nice glow that looks so
: simple and easy!

  I don't know why I'm maintaining a povray VFAQ when nobody is using it...

  Anyways, the answer to this question is, too, in the VFAQ.

http://www.cs.tut.fi/~warp/povVFAQ.html#brightobjects

-- 
main(i){char*_="BdsyFBThhHFBThhHFRz]NFTITQF|DJIFHQhhF";while(i=
*_++)for(;i>1;printf("%s",i-70?i&1?"[]":" ":(i=0,"\n")),i/=2);} /*- Warp. -*/

Post a reply to this message

Thomas Lake wrote in message <369BE55C.F4625028@home.com>...
>I have another good way to model LED's
[snip]
>What you
>do is create, using CSG's a small room behind where you want the LED to be,
make
>this room have a 100% reflective texture. Then cut a small hole the shape
of the
>LED from the hole to the surface of you object.
[snip]

That idea seems sound at first glance, but when viewed with the mechanics of
a raytracer (and especially POV-Ray) in mind, one sees, that it is not the
best solution to the problem: The outcome may be the one that is wished for
(as can be seen in the image you posted), but for the wrong reasons, and at
the cost of increased rendertime.

I'll try to explain why:

I see why you would go for 100% reflectiveness: Because it would model
reality closest, with the "small room" catching the light of the lightsource
and casting it all out of the little hole, like the reflector of a lamp,
making the LED shine brightly.

Only this doesn't work in POV-Ray :-)

If it would, then POV-Ray would be able to do specular reflection / indirect
lighting, which it can't do (if you don't count the very interesting project
Nathan Kopp has in the works).
So using the 100% reflection has only one effect: Pushing up render time
unnecessarily, but the visible outcome of the image will not be changed by
it.

Instead you could simply:
a) Color the walls of the "small room" white and let the colored lightsource
make them appear in the right color, or
b) Color the walls of the "small room" in the color of the LED and use a
white lightsource, or... :

Actually, if you don't want to have the LED to throw light on anything (like
in your rendered image, where the LEDs are only seen as bright spots, but do
not throw light on anything), then it would cut down on rendertime even
more, if you leave out the light source totally, which leaves option "c"
(quite close Ken's suggestion):

c) Color the walls of the "small room" in the color of the LED and give them
a high ambient value, don't use a lightsource at all...

Please excuse my dismissal of your otherwise very creative idea :-) but I
thought it would save some people some time if I explained a bit...

So long,
Johannes.

Post a reply to this message

Nieminen Mika wrote in message <369c8cce.0@news.povray.org>...
>
>  I don't know why I'm maintaining a povray VFAQ when nobody is using it...

Huhh?
This is the strangest post of a long time!

It sounds like:

"Hey, we need a VFAQ, only we are all to busy to do one. Who wants to do
it?"
[nobody raising a hand]
"Nieminen! What about you?"
"No, thanks. I have no time either..."
"Oh, pleeeease!"
"No, really, sorry!"
"Yes you can do it! Pleeease! We all promise that we will read it all the
time too!!!"
"Promise?"
"Yes, 'Promise'! We'll read it like a bible, nobody will ignore it!"
"Ok, ok, but only under that condition!"
"Thank you, thank you, we love you Nieminen! ..."

Well, I assume that this is not quite how it was, is it? ;-)

Please face reality:
People will always ask questions that are already answered in some FAQ
somewhere.
You then have three options:

1. Ignore the question, and think "he'll find the answer in the FAQ or some
kind soul will help him"
2. Point the person to the FAQ
3. Berate the person about not reading the FAQ and appear really childish by
doing this...

(well, actually I could think of some more possible options, like "trying to
find out where the sucker lives and then bombing his mailbox with a big
fire-cracker", or "getting hold of his FAX number and faxing him 101 copies
of the FAQ - with fontsize 36"... :-)


Greetings,
Johannes.

Post a reply to this message

In povray.newusers Johannes Hubert <jhu### [at] algonetse> wrote:
: Please face reality:
: People will always ask questions that are already answered in some FAQ
: somewhere.
: You then have three options:

: 1. Ignore the question, and think "he'll find the answer in the FAQ or some
: kind soul will help him"
: 2. Point the person to the FAQ
: 3. Berate the person about not reading the FAQ and appear really childish by
: doing this...

  But this is not "a FAQ". This is "The FAQ". No, no, it's "The VFAQ" ;)
  You talk about "some FAQ somewhere". Well, I have never seen any FAQ
anywhere about povray. I have never seen anyone answering something like
"the answer is in the FAQ located at...".
  A have also seen that people ask same questions again and again. No matter
how many times you answer, they will ask the same question again. A question
which isn't answered anywhere.
  So this is why I wanted to put those answers in one file so that when
someone asks the same question again, you can save time and typing by
answering just "http://something/povVFAQ.html#question".
  I threw the idea on the news, and the feedback was very encouraging. People
sent me lots of questions and answers. I also received feedback from people
who have read it and liked it and who learnt many things about it. It
seemed like it would be "The FAQ".
  Now it is out there, and it's the only one I know.
  When somebody asks a question in the FAQ, I regularly answer with a proper
URL to the exact location of the answer. Sometimes, specially at the
beginning, some people answered to questions with the URL to the FAQ (but
not with the exact location to the answer, ie. with the #parameter after
the URL).
  Now I'm the only one who answers with the VFAQ. Even those who sent me
questions and asnwers have stopped using it (you are one of them, shame on
you! ;) ).

  Your reply sounded to me like you were insinuating that I'm a little bit
hypocrite. Well, maybe that's so, but I sincerely thought that people,
specially those who contributed in making the VFAQ, were really interested
in it. I sincerely thought that I was making some worthy for the pov
community.
  It's a bit discouraging that one of the contributors answers this way...
It's a bit disappointing that my work seems to be futile.
  Sorry, I'm not blaming you or anyone else. I'm just awakening to see the
cruel world...

-- 
main(i){char*_="BdsyFBThhHFBThhHFRz]NFTITQF|DJIFHQhhF";while(i=
*_++)for(;i>1;printf("%s",i-70?i&1?"[]":" ":(i=0,"\n")),i/=2);} /*- Warp. -*/

Post a reply to this message

Nieminen Mika wrote:

>   Sorry, I'm not blaming you or anyone else. I'm just awakening to see the
> cruel world...

I'm guilty as charged. I'm sorry ! I will endeavor to remember to use
your VFAQ when appropriate. Please forgive me. I'm unworthy.
It's not a wasted resource. Please have patience with us. Thank you.
What you have done is a good thing. The community supports your
efforts. Please do not take our short termed memories as an indication
of the potential of the VFAQ. None is better for the answers it contains.
I ask for another chance to redeem myself. You are powerful and wise.
Get well soon. I will make the VFAQ my start up home page so as not
to forget it's tremendous value. Just think of the time it will save me in
typing alone. Wow ! Why hasn't someone else come up with such a
great thing before is beyond me. Remain dauntless und unswerving in
the face of overwhelming odds. I apologize for my short comings.
I will make amends if you will allow me.

Have I blown enough sunshine up your yet yet ?

--
Ken Tyler

tyl### [at] pacbellnet

Post a reply to this message

In povray.newusers Ken <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote:
: Have I blown enough sunshine up your yet yet ?

  There's no need to be so sarcastic... :)
  Ok, maybe I exaggerated a bit. I'm sorry.

-- 
main(i){char*_="BdsyFBThhHFBThhHFRz]NFTITQF|DJIFHQhhF";while(i=
*_++)for(;i>1;printf("%s",i-70?i&1?"[]":" ":(i=0,"\n")),i/=2);} /*- Warp. -*/

Post a reply to this message

The FAQ (VFAQ) is a great thing. It is, like the documentation, a vast source of
valuable information. Unlike the docs it could change constantly, inspired on
what's going on in the newsgroups. I've followed some Pascal-groups for a while
and there were certain questions that kept coming up over and over annoying
people (for insiders: the RT200-problem?). There were some people getting more
annoyed each time, there were others ignoring the thread (I did eventually), and
there were still others patiently pointing at the FAQ every time. 
I've seen some questions pop up here more then once, I've also seen different
answers to questions. That's why I like to keep reading the solutions to
problems I think are already solved a zillion times and learning new stuff once
in a while.
Perhaps you could simply change your sig and add the VFAQ-URL so you could reply
to each question with an empty message? That might add to the obfuscatedness of
the message ;-)

Regards,

Remco

Nieminen Mika wrote:
> 
> In povray.newusers Johannes Hubert <jhu### [at] algonetse> wrote:
> : Please face reality:
> : People will always ask questions that are already answered in some FAQ
> : somewhere.
> : You then have three options:
> 
> : 1. Ignore the question, and think "he'll find the answer in the FAQ or some
> : kind soul will help him"
> : 2. Point the person to the FAQ
> : 3. Berate the person about not reading the FAQ and appear really childish by
> : doing this...
> 
>   But this is not "a FAQ". This is "The FAQ". No, no, it's "The VFAQ" ;)
>   You talk about "some FAQ somewhere". Well, I have never seen any FAQ
> anywhere about povray. I have never seen anyone answering something like
> "the answer is in the FAQ located at...".
>   A have also seen that people ask same questions again and again. No matter
> how many times you answer, they will ask the same question again. A question
> which isn't answered anywhere.
>   So this is why I wanted to put those answers in one file so that when
> someone asks the same question again, you can save time and typing by
> answering just "http://something/povVFAQ.html#question".
>   I threw the idea on the news, and the feedback was very encouraging. People
> sent me lots of questions and answers. I also received feedback from people
> who have read it and liked it and who learnt many things about it. It
> seemed like it would be "The FAQ".
>   Now it is out there, and it's the only one I know.
>   When somebody asks a question in the FAQ, I regularly answer with a proper
> URL to the exact location of the answer. Sometimes, specially at the
> beginning, some people answered to questions with the URL to the FAQ (but
> not with the exact location to the answer, ie. with the #parameter after
> the URL).
>   Now I'm the only one who answers with the VFAQ. Even those who sent me
> questions and asnwers have stopped using it (you are one of them, shame on
> you! ;) ).
> 
>   Your reply sounded to me like you were insinuating that I'm a little bit
> hypocrite. Well, maybe that's so, but I sincerely thought that people,
> specially those who contributed in making the VFAQ, were really interested
> in it. I sincerely thought that I was making some worthy for the pov
> community.
>   It's a bit discouraging that one of the contributors answers this way...
> It's a bit disappointing that my work seems to be futile.
>   Sorry, I'm not blaming you or anyone else. I'm just awakening to see the
> cruel world...
> 
> --
> main(i){char*_="BdsyFBThhHFBThhHFRz]NFTITQF|DJIFHQhhF";while(i=
> *_++)for(;i>1;printf("%s",i-70?i&1?"[]":" ":(i=0,"\n")),i/=2);} /*- Warp. -*/

Post a reply to this message

In povray.newusers Remco de Korte <rem### [at] xs4allnl> wrote:
: I've seen some questions pop up here more then once, I've also seen different
: answers to questions. That's why I like to keep reading the solutions to
: problems I think are already solved a zillion times and learning new stuff once
: in a while.

  That's a good point...

: Perhaps you could simply change your sig and add the VFAQ-URL so you could reply
: to each question with an empty message? That might add to the obfuscatedness of
: the message ;-)

  I want to answer with the _exact_ location to the answer (ie. with the
#-parameter after the url).
  And besides, do you know how much work I did to type that sig? I'm not
changing it! ;)

  Perhaps I'll make some day the same thing with pov-code instead of C...

-- 
main(i){char*_="BdsyFBThhHFBThhHFRz]NFTITQF|DJIFHQhhF";while(i=
*_++)for(;i>1;printf("%s",i-70?i&1?"[]":" ":(i=0,"\n")),i/=2);} /*- Warp. -*/

Post a reply to this message

To make things clear first:

I thought your VFAQ is a good idea and I even contributed to it with a few
Moray UDO related things.
I *still* think it is a good idea and a good thing to have.

BUT: With creating the VFAQ you simply create a voluntary service maintained
by yourself, which may or may not be used by other people, at *their*
discretion - not yours! The mere existance of the VFAQ does in no way compel
people to *use* it - of course they should (if they know about it), but if
they don't, it's their problem.

For people asking questions that are already answered in the VFAQ that
means: If you don't use the VFAQ you risk that nobody answers your
questions, since everybody knows it is answered in the VFAQ.
For people answering questions that are already answered in the VFAQ: Well,
if they have the time to spare? Why not?
And: Contributing to the VFAQ is equally voluntarily as maintaining it. I
don't remember me having agreed to anything like that with my contribution I
will from then on always study the VFAQ closely and will always point people
to it. Quite frankly: I don't have the time to study the VFAQ, so I don't
know which questions are answered in it, so I can't point people to it
either...

One must keep in mind, that there are always new people coming to a
newsgroup: It's not always the same guys hanging around all the time where
one could truly get mad if such a person would ask a question with an
obvious answer (I can imagine the sarcastic replies we would read if
"Linkmaster" Ken would post a question asking for the URL of, say, Moray, or
if Ron Parker would ask if it was possible to get access to POV-Ray's
sourcecode).

For such a new member of the group, the question actually is *not* a VFAQ,
not even a FAQ. He probably thinks it is the first time this comes up.
Because let's face it: *Nobody* carefully reads *all* older posts in a group
before posting his own first message.
It is only the requlars that read the same question for the 100th time who
get annoyed, while the poster is not even aware of what he is doing. More
important: The poster is probably not even aware of the *existance* of a
FAQ/VFAQ, so there was no chance he could have checked it first. After all,
the URL to your VFAQ is not exactly something each POV user is informed
about right from the start.

Replying to such an "innocent" frequently-recurring posting in a way that
berates or scoldes the asker is not the way. Simply point him to the FAQ or
ignore him. No more. It is not really friendly to give a new member of a
newsgroup a welcome of the sort that he feels stupid and "newbie" right
away, nor is it the best way to introduce yourself (as a regular he will
probably "meet" later again) to him.

Now, that said, I grant you that you probably had the best intentions of
helping the original poster, and I also know that you post frequently and
helpfully, so please don't see my comments to your replies like I would try
to imply that you are a rude, unhelpful, generally annyoing person - no at
all!

Greetings,
Johannes.

Post a reply to this message

This lighting question reminds me... is it possible to see the source 
code to the algorithms POV uses to compute illumination?

Post a reply to this message

Ron Parker wrote:

> This lighting question reminds me... is it possible to see the source
> code to the algorithms POV uses to compute illumination?

 I don't understand.

--
Ken Tyler

tyl### [at] pacbellnet

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:59:44 -0800, Ken <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote:
>Ron Parker wrote:
>
>> This lighting question reminds me... is it possible to see the source
>> code to the algorithms POV uses to compute illumination?
>
> I don't understand.

No, no, no.   You were supposed to follow up with "I heard that it 
might be online somewhere, but I don't have a URL."

Post a reply to this message

Ron Parker wrote in message <369e0940.0@news.povray.org>...
>On Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:59:44 -0800, Ken <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote:
>>Ron Parker wrote:
>>
>>> This lighting question reminds me... is it possible to see the source
>>> code to the algorithms POV uses to compute illumination?
>>
>> I don't understand.
>
>No, no, no.   You were supposed to follow up with "I heard that it
>might be online somewhere, but I don't have a URL."

You really blew it, Ken!  :-))

Johannes.

Post a reply to this message

In povray.newusers Johannes Hubert <jhu### [at] algonetse> wrote:
: BUT: With creating the VFAQ you simply create a voluntary service maintained
: by yourself, which may or may not be used by other people, at *their*
: discretion - not yours! The mere existance of the VFAQ does in no way compel
: people to *use* it - of course they should (if they know about it), but if
: they don't, it's their problem.

  You understood me wrong. I wasn't asking people to use the VFAQ. I wasn't
saying that "you contributed? you should use it as well!".
  I was just wondering _why_ people aren't using it.

  So my message was not this: "Hey, nobody is using the VFAQ. Please, use it."
but instead: "I wonder why nobody is using the VFAQ although it got a good
feedback".

: Quite frankly: I don't have the time to study the VFAQ, so I don't
: know which questions are answered in it, so I can't point people to it
: either...

  But you have time to answer the same questions again and again?

: It is only the requlars that read the same question for the 100th time who
: get annoyed, while the poster is not even aware of what he is doing.

  The point in the VFAQ was not avoiding the annoyance of seeing the same
questions and answers many times. Its goal is to minimize your typing work
and valuable time. Instead of having to type a 10-20 lines answer, you
can answer with a couple of lines (one of which is copypasted from the
browser).

: Replying to such an "innocent" frequently-recurring posting in a way that
: berates or scoldes the asker is not the way. Simply point him to the FAQ or
: ignore him. No more. It is not really friendly to give a new member of a
: newsgroup a welcome of the sort that he feels stupid and "newbie" right
: away, nor is it the best way to introduce yourself (as a regular he will
: probably "meet" later again) to him.

  I'm sorry if I have offended someone with a thing like this.

: Now, that said, I grant you that you probably had the best intentions of
: helping the original poster, and I also know that you post frequently and
: helpfully, so please don't see my comments to your replies like I would try
: to imply that you are a rude, unhelpful, generally annyoing person - no at
: all!

  I know, although sometimes I feel like that (ie. a rude person).

-- 
main(i){char*_="BdsyFBThhHFBThhHFRz]NFTITQF|DJIFHQhhF";while(i=
*_++)for(;i>1;printf("%s",i-70?i&1?"[]":" ":(i=0,"\n")),i/=2);} /*- Warp. -*/

Post a reply to this message

My dogs are looking at me like I'm insane due to the GALES of laughter
erupting from me as I read this thread.!!!

Nieminen, you didn't over react (much).  Geez, you were nicer than Ron
Parker in some of his RTFM responses ... :>)

Jim


Nieminen Mika wrote in message <369dc346.0@news.povray.org>...
>In povray.newusers Ken <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote:
>: Have I blown enough sunshine up your yet yet ?
>
>  There's no need to be so sarcastic... :)
>  Ok, maybe I exaggerated a bit. I'm sorry.
>
>--
>main(i){char*_="BdsyFBThhHFBThhHFRz]NFTITQF|DJIFHQhhF";while(i=
>*_++)for(;i>1;printf("%s",i-70?i&1?"[]":" ":(i=0,"\n")),i/=2);} /*-
Warp. -*/

Post a reply to this message

... more laughter,  I'm rolling on the floor now !!!

Jim

Ron Parker wrote in message <369e0940.0@news.povray.org>...
>On Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:59:44 -0800, Ken <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote:
>>Ron Parker wrote:
>>
>>> This lighting question reminds me... is it possible to see the source
>>> code to the algorithms POV uses to compute illumination?
>>
>> I don't understand.
>
>No, no, no.   You were supposed to follow up with "I heard that it
>might be online somewhere, but I don't have a URL."

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:14:29 -0500, Jim Kress <jim### [at] dccmailcom> wrote:
>My dogs are looking at me like I'm insane due to the GALES of laughter
>erupting from me as I read this thread.!!!
>
>Nieminen, you didn't over react (much).  Geez, you were nicer than Ron
>Parker in some of his RTFM responses ... :>)

I thought I was usually pretty nice.  Must give you an idea how
sarcastic I can be in real life, eh?  :)  Maybe I'm just too curt.

But in reality I almost never answer RTFM questions, because I 
know dozens of other people will.  Surely you're thinking of one 
or two specific responses; could you email me with the ones you 
have in mind?  I'd hate for people to have an allergic reaction
to my ascerbic personality.

Post a reply to this message

How about doing some adjustments on this example?:

//BEGIN
#declare rLED=
object {
sphere {0,1} //shape only (replace with yours)
 pigment {rgbf<1,0,0,.5>} //lower or raise filter amount
  normal {granite .025 scale .025} //reduce further if grainy
   finish {ambient .75 diffuse .1 phong .5 phong_size 5}
}

light_source {0,
 color rgb<1,0,0> //change 0 to location vector if placement needed
  looks_like {rLED}
   fade_distance 2 fade_power 2 //make distance fully lit maximum
}

camera
{
  location  <0.0 , 0.0 ,-9.0>
  direction 3*z
  look_at   <0.0 , 0.0 , 0.0>
}

plane {y,-1 rotate -15*x pigment {rgb 1}}
//END

I'm guessing this question has already had many answers but I forgot by
the time I finished reading the follow-ups. Wonder if a chat-like
newsgroup is feasible? :|


Neil Mercer wrote:
> 
> Hi there,
> 
>     I'm trying to model (amongst other things) a LED.  Building the shape
> has not really been a problem, but now I want to be able to include a light
> inside it so I can make the LED light up (obviously).  I'm having trouble
> getting the light to look right.  So far it either floods the scene with
> light (i.e. too intense) or merely makes the LED structure look like it has
> a shiny surface texture.  What I would like is that nice glow that looks so
> simple and easy!
> 
>     Also, at this stage I've been colouring the LED itself and using a white
> (or near-white light).  Would it be better to have a clear LED and a
> coloured light?
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help.
> 
> Neil.

-- 
 omniVERSE: beyond the universe
  http://members.aol.com/inversez/POVring.htm
=Bob

Post a reply to this message

Nieminen Mika wrote in message <369e3964.0@news.povray.org>...
[snip]
>  You understood me wrong.
[snip]

If I did, then I apologize. (I like this about new.povray.org - everybody is
so friendly, you don't even need a killfile :-)

>: Quite frankly: I don't have the time to study the VFAQ, so I don't
>: know which questions are answered in it, so I can't point people to it
>: either...
>
>  But you have time to answer the same questions again and again?

Nope - as you can see, I didn't answer to the original question - mainly
because others had already answered when I read it, but I guess I wouldn't
have even if no answers had been given yet, because of the lack of time and
the confidence that in this special subject others would come forth with the
same answer I would give (high ambient value).
I must concede: Had I known more about the content of the VFAQ than I
currently do, then I would probably have answered with a link to it. Maybe I
*should* read it again :-)

Greetings,
Johannes.

Post a reply to this message

Perhaps the reason no one is using the VFAQ is that they don't know about
it......I've never heard of it, but everyone is so busy bitching each other out
that no one has posted the URL so I can get it. To tell you the truth, it sounds
like a good idea, and I'd love to have it, so could someone please tell me where
it is?

Post a reply to this message

Richard wrote:

> Perhaps the reason no one is using the VFAQ is that they don't know about
> it......I've never heard of it, but everyone is so busy bitching each other out
> that no one has posted the URL so I can get it. To tell you the truth, it sounds
> like a good idea, and I'd love to have it, so could someone please tell me where
> it is?

This is the permenant but temporarily off line link:
 http://www.students.tut.fi/~warp/povVFAQ.html

This is the temporary link to the VFAQ
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~warp/povVFAQ.html#

Check my recent posting in povray.text.tutorials for more
links to tutorial and educational pov related information.

--
Ken Tyler

tyl### [at] pacbellnet

Post a reply to this message

Ahh, so the sig is C code?! I thought my newsreader was missing something...
OK, so I'm slow, I don't know C and I missed the joke :(
I GOTTA learn C, dammit!

Margus

Nieminen Mika wrote in message <369dce28.0@news.povray.org>...
>  I want to answer with the _exact_ location to the answer (ie. with the
>#-parameter after the url).
>  And besides, do you know how much work I did to type that sig? I'm not
>changing it! ;)
>
>  Perhaps I'll make some day the same thing with pov-code instead of C...
>
>--
>main(i){char*_="BdsyFBThhHFBThhHFRz]NFTITQF|DJIFHQhhF";while(i=
>*_++)for(;i>1;printf("%s",i-70?i&1?"[]":" ":(i=0,"\n")),i/=2);} /*-
Warp. -*/

Post a reply to this message

In povray.newusers Johannes Hubert <jhu### [at] algonetse> wrote:
: Nope - as you can see, I didn't answer to the original question - mainly
: because others had already answered when I read it, but I guess I wouldn't
: have even if no answers had been given yet, because of the lack of time and
: the confidence that in this special subject others would come forth with the
: same answer I would give (high ambient value).
: I must concede: Had I known more about the content of the VFAQ than I
: currently do, then I would probably have answered with a link to it. Maybe I
: *should* read it again :-)

  All this is ok. I didn't mean to blame you or anything. I understand
what you mean. :)

  I remember a funny Garfield postcard which says: "Feel free to waste my
valuable time".

-- 
main(i){char*_="BdsyFBThhHFBThhHFRz]NFTITQF|DJIFHQhhF";while(i=
*_++)for(;i>1;printf("%s",i-70?i&1?"[]":" ":(i=0,"\n")),i/=2);} /*- Warp. -*/

Post a reply to this message

http://www.cs.tut.fi/~warp/povVFAQ.html


Richard wrote:
> 
> Perhaps the reason no one is using the VFAQ is that they don't know about
> it......I've never heard of it, but everyone is so busy bitching each other out
> that no one has posted the URL so I can get it. To tell you the truth, it sounds
> like a good idea, and I'd love to have it, so could someone please tell me where
> it is?

-- 
 omniVERSE: beyond the universe
  http://members.aol.com/inversez/POVring.htm
=Bob

Post a reply to this message

Why don't you organise (organize) things such that the first time someone posts
to this server, they get the VFAQ mailed to them ? As long as it's only once it
shouldn't be an issue (if it's big then perhaps only mail them the location).

This would have to be done at least partially manually due to despammed email
addresses, but the rest could be automated.

Post a reply to this message

povray.org admin team <new### [at] despampovrayorg> wrote:
: This would have to be done at least partially manually due to despammed email
: addresses, but the rest could be automated.

  I think they have despammed their email address for a reason... I think
it would be a good idea to respect it.

-- 
main(i){char*_="BdsyFBThhHFBThhHFRz]NFTITQF|DJIFHQhhF";while(i=
*_++)for(;i>1;printf("%s",i-70?i&1?"[]":" ":(i=0,"\n")),i/=2);} /*- Warp. -*/

Post a reply to this message

"povray.org admin team" wrote:
> 
> Why don't you organise (organize) things such that the first time someone posts
> to this server, they get the VFAQ mailed to them ? As long as it's only once it
> shouldn't be an issue (if it's big then perhaps only mail them the location).
> 
> This would have to be done at least partially manually due to despammed email
> addresses, but the rest could be automated.
Is there a possibility to setup a Greeting script on the news server, that replies to
the
FIRST message someone sends with the VFAQ address???
The sender could then be stored in a database or something so it won't be replied to
again....


I'm not at all sure if it'll work, since I don't have a clue on how to run a news
server..


//Spider

Post a reply to this message

Nieminen Mika wrote:
> 
> povray.org admin team <new### [at] despampovrayorg> wrote:
> : This would have to be done at least partially manually due to despammed email
> : addresses, but the rest could be automated.
> 
>   I think they have despammed their email address for a reason... I think
> it would be a good idea to respect it.
> 
> --
> main(i){char*_="BdsyFBThhHFBThhHFRz]NFTITQF|DJIFHQhhF";while(i=
> *_++)for(;i>1;printf("%s",i-70?i&1?"[]":" ":(i=0,"\n")),i/=2);} /*- Warp. -*/

How about a public announcement once a month on .general,
, .windows , .newusers, and .moray indicating the availability
of the VFAQ. This would probably be enough to get it's presence
advertized without private invasion and still reach a lot of
the ocassional visitors.

Just a thought.

-- 
Ken Tyler

tyl### [at] pacbellnet

Post a reply to this message

Ken Tyler wrote:
> How about a public announcement once a month on .general,
> , .windows , .newusers, and .moray indicating the availability
> of the VFAQ. This would probably be enough to get it's presence
> advertized without private invasion and still reach a lot of
> the ocassional visitors.


That's done in other newsgroups, and as one who is often ignorant, it's
great to see an announcement about a FAQ, but in many busy newsgroups
such announcements roll out of view too soon for anyone to see. 

There really ought to be some standard way for everone to find out about
FAQs, like a new internet protocol
faq://www.how-to-change-a-light-bulb.com,  or specialized search
engines.   The problem would be solved if everyone were smart enough to
go to Alta Vista and search for "+FAQ +somefavoritesubject"  but this
isn't so.  Some genius will think of something...

Still, a monthly or weekly announcement is better than a kick in the
butt.

-- 
Daren Scot Wilson
dar### [at] pipelinecom 
www.newcolor.com
----
"A ship in a harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for"
                                            -- William Shedd

Post a reply to this message

Nieminen Mika <war### [at] cctutfi> wrote:

>povray.org admin team <new### [at] despampovrayorg> wrote:
>: This would have to be done at least partially manually due to despammed email
>: addresses, but the rest could be automated.
>
>  I think they have despammed their email address for a reason... I think
>it would be a good idea to respect it.

People despam email addresses to stop spammers, not us. If they don't want
email -at all- then they simply don't include any email address. At least, that
makes sense to me. It may not do so to you.

Post a reply to this message

What does the C code do in your sig.??

Nieminen Mika wrote:
> 
> In povray.newusers Remco de Korte <rem### [at] xs4allnl> wrote:
> : I've seen some questions pop up here more then once, I've also seen different
> : answers to questions. That's why I like to keep reading the solutions to
> : problems I think are already solved a zillion times and learning new stuff once
> : in a while.
> 
>   That's a good point...
> 
> : Perhaps you could simply change your sig and add the VFAQ-URL so you could reply
> : to each question with an empty message? That might add to the obfuscatedness of
> : the message ;-)
> 
>   I want to answer with the _exact_ location to the answer (ie. with the
> #-parameter after the url).
>   And besides, do you know how much work I did to type that sig? I'm not
> changing it! ;)
> 
>   Perhaps I'll make some day the same thing with pov-code instead of C...
> 
> --
> main(i){char*_="BdsyFBThhHFBThhHFRz]NFTITQF|DJIFHQhhF";while(i=
> *_++)for(;i>1;printf("%s",i-70?i&1?"[]":" ":(i=0,"\n")),i/=2);} /*- Warp. -*/

-- 
Bryan M. Smith
bms### [at] teleportcom
bms### [at] emailcom
http://members.tripod.com/~bmsmith/index.html
ICQ# 24750265
PGP key available upon request

 -----------------------------------------------------------
|For a good prime, call: 391581 * 2^216193 -1               |
|                                                           |
|The nice thing about Windows is - It does not just crash,  |
|it displays a dialog box and lets you press 'OK' first.    |
 -----------------------------------------------------------

Post a reply to this message

In povray.newusers Bryan M. Smith <bms### [at] teleportcom> wrote:
: What does the C code do in your sig.??

  It prints:

 []      []  [][][]  [][][]  [][][]
 []      [] []    [] []   [] []   []  
 []      [] []    [] []   [] []   []  
 []  []  [] [][][][] [][][]  [][][]  
  [] [] []  []    [] [] []   [] 
  [][][][]  []    [] []  []  []  
   []  []   []    [] []   [] []


-- 
main(i){char*_="BdsyFBThhHFBThhHFRz]NFTITQF|DJIFHQhhF";while(i=
*_++)for(;i>1;printf("%s",i-70?i&1?"[]":" ":(i=0,"\n")),i/=2);} /*- Warp. -*/

Post a reply to this message

OK,

    As the person who seems to have kicked all this off by asking what I
thought was a relatively simple question (which the responses have shown it
was) I thought I would throw my 2c back into the mill.

    If I had known of the existence of the VFAQ then I wouldn't have asked
the question... I would have gone there instead, but I didn't so I did (does
that make sense to anyone?).  So I think really the problem is that the
existence of the VFAQ is not as widely known as it should be, especially to
people like me who are new to the newsgroup.

    There....

    Neil.

P.S. Thanks to those who responded with thoughts and ideas... although I
haven't got back to that project yet, I can see that it'll help a lot.
Nieminen Mika wrote in message <369e3964.0@news.povray.org>...
>In povray.newusers Johannes Hubert <jhu### [at] algonetse> wrote:
>: BUT: With creating the VFAQ you simply create a voluntary service
maintained
>: by yourself, which may or may not be used by other people, at *their*
>: discretion - not yours! The mere existance of the VFAQ does in no way
compel
>: people to *use* it - of course they should (if they know about it), but
if
>: they don't, it's their problem.
>
>  You understood me wrong. I wasn't asking people to use the VFAQ. I wasn't
>saying that "you contributed? you should use it as well!".
>  I was just wondering _why_ people aren't using it.
>
>  So my message was not this: "Hey, nobody is using the VFAQ. Please, use
it."
>but instead: "I wonder why nobody is using the VFAQ although it got a good
>feedback".
>
>: Quite frankly: I don't have the time to study the VFAQ, so I don't
>: know which questions are answered in it, so I can't point people to it
>: either...
>
>  But you have time to answer the same questions again and again?
>
>: It is only the requlars that read the same question for the 100th time
who
>: get annoyed, while the poster is not even aware of what he is doing.
>
>  The point in the VFAQ was not avoiding the annoyance of seeing the same
>questions and answers many times. Its goal is to minimize your typing work
>and valuable time. Instead of having to type a 10-20 lines answer, you
>can answer with a couple of lines (one of which is copypasted from the
>browser).
>
>: Replying to such an "innocent" frequently-recurring posting in a way that
>: berates or scoldes the asker is not the way. Simply point him to the FAQ
or
>: ignore him. No more. It is not really friendly to give a new member of a
>: newsgroup a welcome of the sort that he feels stupid and "newbie" right
>: away, nor is it the best way to introduce yourself (as a regular he will
>: probably "meet" later again) to him.
>
>  I'm sorry if I have offended someone with a thing like this.
>
>: Now, that said, I grant you that you probably had the best intentions of
>: helping the original poster, and I also know that you post frequently and
>: helpfully, so please don't see my comments to your replies like I would
try
>: to imply that you are a rude, unhelpful, generally annyoing person - no
at
>: all!
>
>  I know, although sometimes I feel like that (ie. a rude person).
>
>--
>main(i){char*_="BdsyFBThhHFBThhHFRz]NFTITQF|DJIFHQhhF";while(i=
>*_++)for(;i>1;printf("%s",i-70?i&1?"[]":" ":(i=0,"\n")),i/=2);} /*-
Warp. -*/

Post a reply to this message

Neil Mercer wrote:

>     If I had known of the existence of the VFAQ then I wouldn't have asked
> the question... I would have gone there instead, but I didn't so I did (does
> that make sense to anyone?).  So I think really the problem is that the
> existence of the VFAQ is not as widely known as it should be, especially to
> people like me who are new to the newsgroup.
> 
>     There....
> 
>     Neil.

 The fact that it is not widely known is not true. There was an entire
newsgroup formed just so that it would be know. Look at the newsgroup
formed on this server called:

povray.announce.frequently-asked-questions

  This came about specificaly to let new people to these groups know
where to find important information. The VFAQ I believe is the first
enrty in that group and would be one of the first things a person new
to this server should look at.
 The steps have been taken to get this information out to the people.
It's up to the people to do the right thing and look for it in the
appropriate forums.

-- 
Ken Tyler

mailto://tylereng@pacbell.net

Post a reply to this message