 |
|
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Just thought i would drop a little line about a character called Twyst.
I recently in the last few months became a Pov-ray user. I enjoy the
program.
Also, i have been on irc chat networks for the last couple of years so i
immediately went looking for a chat room for pov on irc.
I found one.
It is on Dalnet and it is called #povray.
After spending sometime there and seeing the usual one or 2 people stopping
by in the channel, i innocently made the comment in the channel one day
that the channel was being lame.
I never knew what a kettle that stirred up.
One of the ops, Twyst, decided that he didn't like that comment and chose
to ban me from the channel for such a minor infraction.
In truth, no one ever talked about Pov-ray which was the whole reason i had
gone there to begin with. So, the channel WAS being lame for never
discussing Pov.
I got quite upset over being banned, ill admit. Even went as far as to
repeat a certain curse word in private message to Twyst, for I could NOT
understand what kind of ego would have someone banning one of the FEW
constant supporters of the channel.
The next thing i knew, my computer froze up and i had to reboot. But not
before a little program called Nuke Nabber told me that Twyst was nuking
me. For anyone that doesn't know, Windows 95 has a few small problems with
it's internet protocols. I can't really explain it but, it's illegal and
can be very damaging. You can learn more about it at
http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/nuke/ .
When i tried to reboot my computer, scandisk ran because Windows had not
been properly shut down. Scandisk found big time problems with my hard
drive because of the Windows crash. After Scandisk finished trying to
repair everything, Windows would no longer run. I lost everything on my
hard drive, had to reformat and reinstall everything.
Now, let me explain to you that nuking is illegal and totally uncalled for
under any circumstances. I learned this week that Twyst has come on board
www.povray.org as the "assistant webmaster".
I can't understand why an organization like Pov-ray would want to be linked
to a criminal like Twyst. Perhaps they enjoy him trying to take the
spotlight away from the Pov organization and putting it on himself with
such antics as releasing the new Pov-ray release on HIS web page before the
proper release date. Or turning supposed Pov-ray channels on irc into his
own PERSONAL playgrounds where he can play God.
If a person like this is allowed to be part of the Pov-ray organization,
what does that say about the organization itself?
In Twyst's twysted world, free speech does not reign, only his twysted
sense of himself as God of Pov. Pov is about all of us that use it, not
about one individual.
Do you want to use a program that's associated with criminals, yes,
criminals (once again, nuke attacks are illegal and the incident was quite
painful for me, because of damage done to my pc), like Twyst?
As of recently, i have once again been "allowed" back into the #povray
channels on Dalnet. After learning of the Internet Movie Project, I began
working with another #povray channel regular named Restil on trying to
complete the first "test" run laid out by the scripting team. That
animation has been completed and has only to be encoded into a player, now,
which is a huge step for Pov-ray and for the Internet Movie Project team.
I am sure that more will be forth coming from Restil about this to the IMP.
I am responsible only for the sun texture and the programming of the lens
flare, using the lens flare include, produced by Chris Colefax. And in
some small part for making the topic an active one in the minds of channel
regulars.
Tonight, while i was trying to help some of the new users to "our"
channel, Twyst in normal fashion, was interrupting the conversation with
lines from his Mirc script. Only a month ago, i had been told not to do
this and had complied readily. When i asked Twyst why he could do it and
no one else, he replied that he was an OP. He could do what he pleased as
rank came with priviledge.
I'm sorry, but my temperament won't let me live with such provincial
attitudes as this, in a forum that should be free speech. I really had not
so much problem with Twyst's script "tests" as the fact that 1. I had been
scolded for this. 2. It had nothing to do with Pov-ray, the topic for our
channel. There were new people, people that we should cradle in our arms
and say Welcome to our channel, welcome to the world of Pov-ray, what can
we do to help get you started. But, in honesty, this is the constant curse
we must endure.
I have started a new channel on Dalnet, Undernet, Newnet and Efnet called
#povray2. If you would like to REALLY discuss Pov-ray or problems you are
having with it, or would like to REALLY get an Internet Movie Project
going, come, you will be welcome.
As for me, i will have no more dealings with the #povray channels, or
twysted.net as long as they are run by criminals like Twyst.
Out,
Eric
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
In article <01bdddf9$5e2f5f40$24efebd0@debbiemi> , "Eric" <erici2112@geocities.com>
wrote:
>I can't understand why an organization like Pov-ray would want to be linked
>to a criminal like Twyst. Perhaps they enjoy him trying to take the
>spotlight away from the Pov organization and putting it on himself with
>such antics as releasing the new Pov-ray release on HIS web page before the
>proper release date.
It was available on the POVRAY Forum for the public without limitations.
>If a person like this is allowed to be part of the Pov-ray organization,
>what does that say about the organization itself?
Hmm, I did not know that he is a member...
I cannot quote on any other topics because I don't know about them.
Thorsten
____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On 30 Sep 1998 03:57:17 -0500, Eric <eri### [at] geocities com> wrote:
>In truth, no one ever talked about Pov-ray which was the whole reason i had
>gone there to begin with. So, the channel WAS being lame for never
>discussing Pov.
Um... yeah, the regulars don't discuss POV 24 hours a day, 7 days
a week. That has to do with having discussed every part of it we
care about. Considering we've been talking about it constantly for
years now, you'd think we'd have no more to say, but we still talk
about POV most of the time.
Even when the current discussion is off-topic, if a new user comes by
and wants to know what the channel is about, or what POV is about, or
has a POV question, I've never seen anyone, including Twyst, not jump
right up to answer the question in a helpful and supportive manner.
Even when it's always the same question (where can I find some cool
raytraced pictures) we never get tired of answering it, because we know
we just got one more person hooked on POV.
>I can't understand why an organization like Pov-ray would want to be linked
>to a criminal like Twyst. Perhaps they enjoy him trying to take the
>spotlight away from the Pov organization and putting it on himself with
>such antics as releasing the new Pov-ray release on HIS web page before the
>proper release date.
Actually, my understanding is that official build had been released on
Compuserve prior to both Twyst and McLilith (yes, Twyst wasn't the only
one who prereleased the official build) putting it on their websites.
I also understand that there was no language in the Compuserve release
preventing further distribution. That being the case, they weren't
violating any license agreements or doing anything else wrong by
providing a place for the Internet community to download it. True,
they obviously have more time for website maintenance than the POV-Team
does, but maybe that's why the POV-Team is looking for help. Would you
begrudge them the assistance of someone who has both the time and the
motivation to keep povray.org up-to-date, just because you think he
nuked you and may have incidentally caused your obviously already unstable
windows installation to self-destruct?
>As of recently, i have once again been "allowed" back into the #povray
>channels on Dalnet. After learning of the Internet Movie Project, I began
>working with another #povray channel regular named Restil on trying to
>complete the first "test" run laid out by the scripting team. That
>animation has been completed and has only to be encoded into a player, now,
>which is a huge step for Pov-ray and for the Internet Movie Project team.
>I am sure that more will be forth coming from Restil about this to the IMP.
>I am responsible only for the sun texture and the programming of the lens
>flare, using the lens flare include, produced by Chris Colefax. And in
>some small part for making the topic an active one in the minds of channel
>regulars.
Might I point out the the IMP has its own channel? As one of the #povray
channel regulars, I can tell you that I got tired of people making that
topic active in my mind long before you showed up. For those who didn't
hear: #povray is not the IMP channel. IMP is off-topic in #povray.
But you know what? The ops don't try to stop IMP or any other off-topic
thing from being discussed in #povray. We'll let any discussion take
place, because it's a community first and an informative channel second,
and all work and no play makes #povray a dull place. And as ops, we know
that the surest way to make people go find another channel is to enforce
the rules to the point where nobody can breathe without being off-topic.
>I'm sorry, but my temperament won't let me live with such provincial
>attitudes as this, in a forum that should be free speech.
Oh, come on now. IRC isn't about free speech. The only free speech aspect
of IRC is that ANYONE can op their own channel, and can do just about
whatever they want in it. But the ops completely rule the channel. It's
not OUR channel. It's the ops' channel, and they graciously let us use
it. That's true of any channel, and if you've really been on IRC as long
as you claim you have, you surely know that #povray is one of the
best-behaved channels on IRC in that respect.
>I have started a new channel on Dalnet, Undernet, Newnet and Efnet called
>#povray2. If you would like to REALLY discuss Pov-ray or problems you are
>having with it, or would like to REALLY get an Internet Movie Project
>going, come, you will be welcome.
Good luck. As for me, I think I'll stay on #povray. I like the people
there and I know that we discuss POV all the time. I also know that no
channel on IRC stays on topic all the time, unless the ops crack the
whip. Maybe I'll stop by in a couple of months and see just how on-topic
your channel is, if it still exists.
There is another channel on IRC where you can talk to your heart's
content about POV, the IMP, BMRT, Radiance, or any other rendering
stuff. It's #render, and Twyst isn't an op there. I own the Newnet
channel, Nite_Hawk owns the EFNet channel, and IR owns the DALnet
channel. They're not currently linked by bots, as the bots that were
linking them are now the backups for #povray, but they could be
linked again if there was any interest. But despite lots of shameless
publicity, there's never been anyone in any of those channels except
the ops. I think that says something for how much people like #povray.
Why was #render founded? Because Nite_Hawk and I thought the things
we were discussing (Panorama, Radiance, BMRT) were off-topic for
#povray, so we decided to get some of that traffic off the POV channel.
Guess what - it didn't work. People wanted to discuss it in the POV
channel. Let me say that again, because it's important: the ops in
#povray tried to move some of the off-topic conversation out of the
channel by providing a productive alternative, and IT DIDN'T WORK
because the channel regulars didn't go along with it. Sounds like
a real monarchy to me. Those ops must be gods.
>As for me, i will have no more dealings with the #povray channels, or
>twysted.net as long as they are run by criminals like Twyst.
Restil owns the machine twysted.net resides on. He's also an op on
#povray. Does that make him a criminal? Seems to me you just said
it does. Will you have no more dealings with him?
I'm an op on Newnet #povray, and the administrator of twysted.net's
PatchStation. I'm not a criminal. Looks like you just said I am. I
should bring suit against you for either slander or libel, whichever
is appropriate for this forum. But then, I can get over it without
making a big production, so I probably won't be calling my lawyer
today.
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
for the record here is a slightly snipped copy of the log file from last
night. all relevant comments by both parties are left in only before and
after were snipped. anyone who wants the unsnipped .log e-mail me at
mar### [at] NO_SPAMncxcom and I will gladly send it
Eric wrote in message <01bdde3e$cc68c9c0$24efebd0@debbiemi>...
>Just thought i would drop a little line about a character called Twyst.
>
>I recently in the last few months became a Pov-ray user. I enjoy the
>program.
>Also, i have been on irc chat networks for the last couple of years so i
>immediately went looking for a chat room for pov on irc.
>I found one.
>
>It is on Dalnet and it is called #povray.
>
>After spending sometime there and seeing the usual one or 2 people stopping
>by in the channel, i innocently made the comment in the channel one day
>that the channel was being lame.
>
>I never knew what a kettle that stirred up.
>
>One of the ops, Twyst, decided that he didn't like that comment and chose
>to ban me from the channel for such a minor infraction.
>In truth, no one ever talked about Pov-ray which was the whole reason i had
>gone there to begin with. So, the channel WAS being lame for never
>discussing Pov.
Well we don't go in there to just talk about POVRAY. A lot of us go in to
hang out and help anyone who comes in for it. I know if I have any questions
I can get an answer or at least a pointer to find my own. But no we don't
exclusively talk about POVRAY all the time. If we were forced to how many
people would be there to help? No one is going to sit in an IRC room and
wait for hours hoping someone will show up asking for help. Get real.
>I got quite upset over being banned, ill admit. Even went as far as to
>repeat a certain curse word in private message to Twyst, for I could NOT
>understand what kind of ego would have someone banning one of the FEW
>constant supporters of the channel.
>The next thing i knew, my computer froze up and i had to reboot. But not
>before a little program called Nuke Nabber told me that Twyst was nuking
>me. For anyone that doesn't know, Windows 95 has a few small problems with
>it's internet protocols. I can't really explain it but, it's illegal and
>can be very damaging. You can learn more about it at
>http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/nuke/ .
And ANYONE who has been on IRC for years would know there are patches
constantly being relapsed to protect yourself form nuking.
>When I tried to reboot my computer, scandisk ran because Windows had not
>been properly shut down. Scandisk found big time problems with my hard
>drive because of the Windows crash. After Scandisk finished trying to
>repair everything, Windows would no longer run. I lost everything on my
>hard drive, had to reformat and reinstall everything.
>
>Now, let me explain to you that nuking is illegal and totally uncalled for
>under any circumstances. I learned this week that Twyst has come on board
>www.povray.org as the "assistant webmaster".
>
>I can't understand why an organization like Pov-ray would want to be linked
>to a criminal like Twyst. Perhaps they enjoy him trying to take the
>spotlight away from the Pov organization and putting it on himself with
>such antics as releasing the new Pov-ray release on HIS web page before the
>proper release date. Or turning supposed Pov-ray channels on irc into his
>own PERSONAL playgrounds where he can play God.
POVRAY 3.1 WAS released to the public when twyst and Mclilith (and I had a
mirror site myself) had it up. do you really think the POVRAY team has all
the time in the world to work on not only the app itself, but the web page,
and all the other things they do? come on grow up. Just because you had a
problem with twyst doesn't mean he played god. I read the .log file pal you
were being an ass from the beginning.
>If a person like this is allowed to be part of the Pov-ray organization,
>what does that say about the organization itself?
Well if the IMP has a person like you involved what does that say for that
organization?
>In Twyst's twysted world, free speech does not reign, only his twysted
>sense of himself as God of Pov. Pov is about all of us that use it, not
>about one individual.
take out the personal attack and I do agree, POVRAY is more than ANY one
person. But I have been going into #POVRAY for months now and I have NEVER
seen twyst act like "god".
>Do you want to use a program that's associated with criminals, yes,
>criminals (once again, nuke attacks are illegal and the incident was quite
>painful for me, because of damage done to my pc), like Twyst?
I have been nuked numerous times and have NEVER had multiple file
corruption's happen. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but I would think that
maybe there was some instability there beforehand.
>As of recently, i have once again been "allowed" back into the #povray
>channels on Dalnet. After learning of the Internet Movie Project, I began
>working with another #povray channel regular named Restil on trying to
>complete the first "test" run laid out by the scripting team. That
>animation has been completed and has only to be encoded into a player, now,
>which is a huge step for Pov-ray and for the Internet Movie Project team.
>I am sure that more will be forth coming from Restil about this to the IMP.
I think you are over stating the importance of your short test. Not that IMP
isn't going to be something special (on the contrary it is VERY special) but
you are overestimating the importance of that one little test.
>I am responsible only for the sun texture and the programming of the lens
>flare, using the lens flare include, produced by Chris Colefax. And in
>some small part for making the topic an active one in the minds of channel
>regulars.
First of all what does the IMP have to do with the #POVRAY channel? IMP has
it's own channel which btw twyst set up.
>Tonight, while i was trying to help some of the new users to "our"
>channel, Twyst in normal fashion, was interrupting the conversation with
>lines from his Mirc script. Only a month ago, i had been told not to do
>this and had complied readily. When i asked Twyst why he could do it and
>no one else, he replied that he was an OP. He could do what he pleased as
>rank came with priviledge.
Well first off you didn't ask you told twyst to stop it (don't believe me
check out the attached .log file) secondly ops CAN do what they want in ANY
IRC channel.
>I'm sorry, but my temperament won't let me live with such provincial
>attitudes as this, in a forum that should be free speech. I really had not
>so much problem with Twyst's script "tests" as the fact that 1. I had been
>scolded for this. 2. It had nothing to do with Pov-ray, the topic for our
>channel. There were new people, people that we should cradle in our arms
>and say Welcome to our channel, welcome to the world of Pov-ray, what can
>we do to help get you started. But, in honesty, this is the constant curse
>we must endure.
Well first of all I have seen twyst and EVERYONE in #POVRAY stop whatever
off topic conversation to help anyone in need.Secondly who exactly are you
to say your way is the right way? Are you God? NO!!!!! you do NOT make the
rules nor the protocols that we all follow. You complain about a provincial
attitude and free speech but yet you want to limit our free speech to your
liking. GROW UP!!!!!! Its attitudes like yours that start conflicts. "I want
free speech but only if it's about what I want it to be" sheesh man.
>I have started a new channel on Dalnet, Undernet, Newnet and Efnet called
>#povray2. If you would like to REALLY discuss Pov-ray or problems you are
>having with it, or would like to REALLY get an Internet Movie Project
>going, come, you will be welcome.
Well I stopped in tonight and guess what even you weren't there. so much for
your invitation.
>As for me, i will have no more dealings with the #povray channels, or
>twysted.net as long as they are run by criminals like Twyst.
YAAAAAAA HOOOOOOO! after you asked me about where I saw the 3DS max warez
d-load i won't miss you. We all like free progs but you call twyst a
criminal but yet your willing to d-load warez, another childish double
standard my friend.
>Out,
>
>Eric
Good Bye , Maleko
Post a reply to this message
Attachments:
Download 'snipped log.zip' (7 KB)
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Once again, you guys show how you are. You came into my new chat channel
only a night ago, pretending to be there as some kind of friend.
Do you know how much help i recieved from you all the whole time i was
there? I have log after log where i asked a question, seeking help, only
to be told that basically i was dumb, because i couldn't figure out the
docs.
As far as log files go, Twyst and the rest of you are always twysting log
files to your own usage.
My question to all of you, is how can you trust someone that would nuke
somebody?
Would you download software from a site that supports a guy who nukes
people?
Eric
marc <mar### [at] ncxcom> wrote in article <3612f251.0@news.povray.org>...
> for the record here is a slightly snipped copy of the log file from last
> night. all relevant comments by both parties are left in only before and
> after were snipped. anyone who wants the unsnipped .log e-mail me at
> mar### [at] NO_SPAMncxcom and I will gladly send it
>
> Eric wrote in message <01bdde3e$cc68c9c0$24efebd0@debbiemi>...
> >Just thought i would drop a little line about a character called Twyst.
> >
> >I recently in the last few months became a Pov-ray user. I enjoy the
> >program.
> >Also, i have been on irc chat networks for the last couple of years so i
> >immediately went looking for a chat room for pov on irc.
> >I found one.
> >
> >It is on Dalnet and it is called #povray.
> >
> >After spending sometime there and seeing the usual one or 2 people
stopping
> >by in the channel, i innocently made the comment in the channel one day
> >that the channel was being lame.
> >
> >I never knew what a kettle that stirred up.
> >
> >One of the ops, Twyst, decided that he didn't like that comment and
chose
> >to ban me from the channel for such a minor infraction.
> >In truth, no one ever talked about Pov-ray which was the whole reason i
had
> >gone there to begin with. So, the channel WAS being lame for never
> >discussing Pov.
>
>
> Well we don't go in there to just talk about POVRAY. A lot of us go in to
> hang out and help anyone who comes in for it. I know if I have any
questions
> I can get an answer or at least a pointer to find my own. But no we don't
> exclusively talk about POVRAY all the time. If we were forced to how many
> people would be there to help? No one is going to sit in an IRC room and
> wait for hours hoping someone will show up asking for help. Get real.
>
> >I got quite upset over being banned, ill admit. Even went as far as to
> >repeat a certain curse word in private message to Twyst, for I could NOT
> >understand what kind of ego would have someone banning one of the FEW
> >constant supporters of the channel.
> >The next thing i knew, my computer froze up and i had to reboot. But
not
> >before a little program called Nuke Nabber told me that Twyst was nuking
> >me. For anyone that doesn't know, Windows 95 has a few small problems
with
> >it's internet protocols. I can't really explain it but, it's illegal and
> >can be very damaging. You can learn more about it at
> >http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/nuke/ .
>
>
> And ANYONE who has been on IRC for years would know there are patches
> constantly being relapsed to protect yourself form nuking.
>
> >When I tried to reboot my computer, scandisk ran because Windows had not
> >been properly shut down. Scandisk found big time problems with my hard
> >drive because of the Windows crash. After Scandisk finished trying to
> >repair everything, Windows would no longer run. I lost everything on my
> >hard drive, had to reformat and reinstall everything.
> >
> >Now, let me explain to you that nuking is illegal and totally uncalled
for
> >under any circumstances. I learned this week that Twyst has come on
board
> >www.povray.org as the "assistant webmaster".
> >
> >I can't understand why an organization like Pov-ray would want to be
linked
> >to a criminal like Twyst. Perhaps they enjoy him trying to take the
> >spotlight away from the Pov organization and putting it on himself with
> >such antics as releasing the new Pov-ray release on HIS web page before
the
> >proper release date. Or turning supposed Pov-ray channels on irc into
his
> >own PERSONAL playgrounds where he can play God.
>
>
> POVRAY 3.1 WAS released to the public when twyst and Mclilith (and I had
a
> mirror site myself) had it up. do you really think the POVRAY team has
all
> the time in the world to work on not only the app itself, but the web
page,
> and all the other things they do? come on grow up. Just because you had a
> problem with twyst doesn't mean he played god. I read the .log file pal
you
> were being an ass from the beginning.
>
> >If a person like this is allowed to be part of the Pov-ray organization,
> >what does that say about the organization itself?
>
>
> Well if the IMP has a person like you involved what does that say for
that
> organization?
>
> >In Twyst's twysted world, free speech does not reign, only his twysted
> >sense of himself as God of Pov. Pov is about all of us that use it, not
> >about one individual.
>
>
> take out the personal attack and I do agree, POVRAY is more than ANY one
> person. But I have been going into #POVRAY for months now and I have
NEVER
> seen twyst act like "god".
>
> >Do you want to use a program that's associated with criminals, yes,
> >criminals (once again, nuke attacks are illegal and the incident was
quite
> >painful for me, because of damage done to my pc), like Twyst?
>
>
> I have been nuked numerous times and have NEVER had multiple file
> corruption's happen. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but I would think
that
> maybe there was some instability there beforehand.
>
> >As of recently, i have once again been "allowed" back into the #povray
> >channels on Dalnet. After learning of the Internet Movie Project, I
began
> >working with another #povray channel regular named Restil on trying to
> >complete the first "test" run laid out by the scripting team. That
> >animation has been completed and has only to be encoded into a player,
now,
> >which is a huge step for Pov-ray and for the Internet Movie Project
team.
> >I am sure that more will be forth coming from Restil about this to the
IMP.
>
> I think you are over stating the importance of your short test. Not that
IMP
> isn't going to be something special (on the contrary it is VERY special)
but
> you are overestimating the importance of that one little test.
>
> >I am responsible only for the sun texture and the programming of the
lens
> >flare, using the lens flare include, produced by Chris Colefax. And in
> >some small part for making the topic an active one in the minds of
channel
> >regulars.
>
>
> First of all what does the IMP have to do with the #POVRAY channel? IMP
has
> it's own channel which btw twyst set up.
>
> >Tonight, while i was trying to help some of the new users to "our"
> >channel, Twyst in normal fashion, was interrupting the conversation with
> >lines from his Mirc script. Only a month ago, i had been told not to do
> >this and had complied readily. When i asked Twyst why he could do it
and
> >no one else, he replied that he was an OP. He could do what he pleased
as
> >rank came with priviledge.
>
>
> Well first off you didn't ask you told twyst to stop it (don't believe me
> check out the attached .log file) secondly ops CAN do what they want in
ANY
> IRC channel.
>
> >I'm sorry, but my temperament won't let me live with such provincial
> >attitudes as this, in a forum that should be free speech. I really had
not
> >so much problem with Twyst's script "tests" as the fact that 1. I had
been
> >scolded for this. 2. It had nothing to do with Pov-ray, the topic for
our
> >channel. There were new people, people that we should cradle in our
arms
> >and say Welcome to our channel, welcome to the world of Pov-ray, what
can
> >we do to help get you started. But, in honesty, this is the constant
curse
> >we must endure.
>
>
> Well first of all I have seen twyst and EVERYONE in #POVRAY stop whatever
> off topic conversation to help anyone in need.Secondly who exactly are
you
> to say your way is the right way? Are you God? NO!!!!! you do NOT make
the
> rules nor the protocols that we all follow. You complain about a
provincial
> attitude and free speech but yet you want to limit our free speech to
your
> liking. GROW UP!!!!!! Its attitudes like yours that start conflicts. "I
want
> free speech but only if it's about what I want it to be" sheesh man.
>
> >I have started a new channel on Dalnet, Undernet, Newnet and Efnet
called
> >#povray2. If you would like to REALLY discuss Pov-ray or problems you
are
> >having with it, or would like to REALLY get an Internet Movie Project
> >going, come, you will be welcome.
>
>
> Well I stopped in tonight and guess what even you weren't there. so much
for
> your invitation.
>
> >As for me, i will have no more dealings with the #povray channels, or
> >twysted.net as long as they are run by criminals like Twyst.
>
>
> YAAAAAAA HOOOOOOO! after you asked me about where I saw the 3DS max warez
> d-load i won't miss you. We all like free progs but you call twyst a
> criminal but yet your willing to d-load warez, another childish double
> standard my friend.
>
> >Out,
> >
> >Eric
>
>
> Good Bye , Maleko
>
>
>
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Once again, another Pov-ray op trying to defend the criminal activities of
Twyst. What everyone must realize is that the argument between Twyst and I
erupted out of the fact that I was trying to help a new user. Twyst made
that almost impossible with his incessant "script" tests.
Continue to support Twyst and his criminal activities, meanwhile I will
continue to tell people of the risk that they run to their property if they
associate with the #povray channels.
As for a lawsuit, i would enjoy the challenge, and due to the provable loss
that I had due to Twyst's actions, I intend to pursue any and all actions
against Twyst.
Now, everyone can be aware of what to expect from people such as you all.
Out,
Eric
Ron Parker <par### [at] my-dejanewscom> wrote in article
<36123f0a.0@news.povray.org>...
> On 30 Sep 1998 03:57:17 -0500, Eric <eri### [at] geocitiescom> wrote:
> >In truth, no one ever talked about Pov-ray which was the whole reason i
had
> >gone there to begin with. So, the channel WAS being lame for never
> >discussing Pov.
>
> Um... yeah, the regulars don't discuss POV 24 hours a day, 7 days
> a week. That has to do with having discussed every part of it we
> care about. Considering we've been talking about it constantly for
> years now, you'd think we'd have no more to say, but we still talk
> about POV most of the time.
>
> Even when the current discussion is off-topic, if a new user comes by
> and wants to know what the channel is about, or what POV is about, or
> has a POV question, I've never seen anyone, including Twyst, not jump
> right up to answer the question in a helpful and supportive manner.
> Even when it's always the same question (where can I find some cool
> raytraced pictures) we never get tired of answering it, because we know
> we just got one more person hooked on POV.
>
> >I can't understand why an organization like Pov-ray would want to be
linked
> >to a criminal like Twyst. Perhaps they enjoy him trying to take the
> >spotlight away from the Pov organization and putting it on himself with
> >such antics as releasing the new Pov-ray release on HIS web page before
the
> >proper release date.
>
> Actually, my understanding is that official build had been released on
> Compuserve prior to both Twyst and McLilith (yes, Twyst wasn't the only
> one who prereleased the official build) putting it on their websites.
> I also understand that there was no language in the Compuserve release
> preventing further distribution. That being the case, they weren't
> violating any license agreements or doing anything else wrong by
> providing a place for the Internet community to download it. True,
> they obviously have more time for website maintenance than the POV-Team
> does, but maybe that's why the POV-Team is looking for help. Would you
> begrudge them the assistance of someone who has both the time and the
> motivation to keep povray.org up-to-date, just because you think he
> nuked you and may have incidentally caused your obviously already
unstable
> windows installation to self-destruct?
>
> >As of recently, i have once again been "allowed" back into the #povray
> >channels on Dalnet. After learning of the Internet Movie Project, I
began
> >working with another #povray channel regular named Restil on trying to
> >complete the first "test" run laid out by the scripting team. That
> >animation has been completed and has only to be encoded into a player,
now,
> >which is a huge step for Pov-ray and for the Internet Movie Project
team.
> >I am sure that more will be forth coming from Restil about this to the
IMP.
> >I am responsible only for the sun texture and the programming of the
lens
> >flare, using the lens flare include, produced by Chris Colefax. And in
> >some small part for making the topic an active one in the minds of
channel
> >regulars.
>
> Might I point out the the IMP has its own channel? As one of the #povray
> channel regulars, I can tell you that I got tired of people making that
> topic active in my mind long before you showed up. For those who didn't
> hear: #povray is not the IMP channel. IMP is off-topic in #povray.
>
> But you know what? The ops don't try to stop IMP or any other off-topic
> thing from being discussed in #povray. We'll let any discussion take
> place, because it's a community first and an informative channel second,
> and all work and no play makes #povray a dull place. And as ops, we know
> that the surest way to make people go find another channel is to enforce
> the rules to the point where nobody can breathe without being off-topic.
>
> >I'm sorry, but my temperament won't let me live with such provincial
> >attitudes as this, in a forum that should be free speech.
>
> Oh, come on now. IRC isn't about free speech. The only free speech
aspect
> of IRC is that ANYONE can op their own channel, and can do just about
> whatever they want in it. But the ops completely rule the channel. It's
> not OUR channel. It's the ops' channel, and they graciously let us use
> it. That's true of any channel, and if you've really been on IRC as long
> as you claim you have, you surely know that #povray is one of the
> best-behaved channels on IRC in that respect.
>
> >I have started a new channel on Dalnet, Undernet, Newnet and Efnet
called
> >#povray2. If you would like to REALLY discuss Pov-ray or problems you
are
> >having with it, or would like to REALLY get an Internet Movie Project
> >going, come, you will be welcome.
>
> Good luck. As for me, I think I'll stay on #povray. I like the people
> there and I know that we discuss POV all the time. I also know that no
> channel on IRC stays on topic all the time, unless the ops crack the
> whip. Maybe I'll stop by in a couple of months and see just how on-topic
> your channel is, if it still exists.
>
> There is another channel on IRC where you can talk to your heart's
> content about POV, the IMP, BMRT, Radiance, or any other rendering
> stuff. It's #render, and Twyst isn't an op there. I own the Newnet
> channel, Nite_Hawk owns the EFNet channel, and IR owns the DALnet
> channel. They're not currently linked by bots, as the bots that were
> linking them are now the backups for #povray, but they could be
> linked again if there was any interest. But despite lots of shameless
> publicity, there's never been anyone in any of those channels except
> the ops. I think that says something for how much people like #povray.
>
> Why was #render founded? Because Nite_Hawk and I thought the things
> we were discussing (Panorama, Radiance, BMRT) were off-topic for
> #povray, so we decided to get some of that traffic off the POV channel.
> Guess what - it didn't work. People wanted to discuss it in the POV
> channel. Let me say that again, because it's important: the ops in
> #povray tried to move some of the off-topic conversation out of the
> channel by providing a productive alternative, and IT DIDN'T WORK
> because the channel regulars didn't go along with it. Sounds like
> a real monarchy to me. Those ops must be gods.
>
> >As for me, i will have no more dealings with the #povray channels, or
> >twysted.net as long as they are run by criminals like Twyst.
>
> Restil owns the machine twysted.net resides on. He's also an op on
> #povray. Does that make him a criminal? Seems to me you just said
> it does. Will you have no more dealings with him?
>
> I'm an op on Newnet #povray, and the administrator of twysted.net's
> PatchStation. I'm not a criminal. Looks like you just said I am. I
> should bring suit against you for either slander or libel, whichever
> is appropriate for this forum. But then, I can get over it without
> making a big production, so I probably won't be calling my lawyer
> today.
>
>
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
That just goes to prove my point.
His statement is that he IS associated with that organization as "assistant
webmaster" for the Pov-ray page. Is he lying?
And moreover, my message was one of warning to people that were unaware of
the risks they ran when associating with the #povray channel.
Eric
Thorsten Froehlich <fro### [at] charliecnsiitedu> wrote in article
<36123bcf.0@news.povray.org>...
> In article <01bdddf9$5e2f5f40$24efebd0@debbiemi> , "Eric"
<eri### [at] geocitiescom> wrote:
>
> >I can't understand why an organization like Pov-ray would want to be
linked
> >to a criminal like Twyst. Perhaps they enjoy him trying to take the
> >spotlight away from the Pov organization and putting it on himself with
> >such antics as releasing the new Pov-ray release on HIS web page before
the
> >proper release date.
>
> It was available on the POVRAY Forum for the public without limitations.
>
> >If a person like this is allowed to be part of the Pov-ray organization,
> >what does that say about the organization itself?
>
> Hmm, I did not know that he is a member...
>
>
> I cannot quote on any other topics because I don't know about them.
>
>
> Thorsten
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
>
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Eric wrote:
> As for a lawsuit, i would enjoy the challenge, and due to the provable loss
> that I had due to Twyst's actions, I intend to pursue any and all actions
> against Twyst.
>
> Eric
I am not going to get into the middle of this you against
them issue but would like to offer a littler pearl of wisdom.
Life is much too short to get so work up about things like
this.
I too have recently lost a considerable investment
in time and software value at the hands of Micro Softs
scandisk program. My loss though had absolutly no
connection with Twyst or anybody else for that matter.
Microsoft infoms us in no uncertain terms that WE
are responsible for insuring the data on our computer
systems and they will not under any circumstances
assume any responsibility for lost data. What does
this mean ?
It means either you reguraly back up your hard drive
or you don't. The responsibility is yours alone and the
blame for data loss cannot be transfered to someone else.
Feel free to persue whatever battle of personalities
you so choose but I think the data loss issue is a personal
problem.
Again life is too short. Let it go and move on.
Ken
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On 1 Oct 1998 14:34:27 -0500, Eric <eri### [at] geocitiescom> wrote:
>Once again, another Pov-ray op trying to defend the criminal activities of
>Twyst.
I guess I missed something. Would you care to quote the specific line
where I defended any alleged "criminal activities"? I was pretty sure
I only defended all of the other ops on twysted.net and #povray from your
baseless and prejudiced attacks.
>What everyone must realize is that the argument between Twyst and I
>erupted out of the fact that I was trying to help a new user. Twyst made
>that almost impossible with his incessant "script" tests.
It didn't erupt out of the fact that you were trying to help a new user.
It erupted out of the fact that you were incapable of ignoring a few lines
of unnecessary text emitted by Twyst's script. I didn't notice the guy
you were helping complaining about them. It looks like he went away happy.
What about all the people who were trying to have a conversation while you
posted what looks like a sizeable chunk of POV code in channel? That's why
we have DCC. Why weren't you using it?
>As for a lawsuit, i would enjoy the challenge, and due to the provable loss
>that I had due to Twyst's actions, I intend to pursue any and all actions
>against Twyst.
Provable? Where are your logs? What evidence do you have? Didn't you
wipe out all your evidence, if you had any, when you reinstalled Windows?
It looks like the only "proof" we have is Twyst's logs, where he claims
self-defense against a Denial of Service attack from you, which is just as
illegal as a nuke attack. In addition to that, there's a substantial body
of evidence, including Microsoft press releases, that shows that so-called
'nuke' attacks don't cause any more permanent damage to a Windows
installation than any other unrecoverable page fault or even a power
failure would under the same circumstances.
Part of the responsibility lies with you, as well. If I leave the keys in
the car with the door open, I have a much weaker case when the bad guys come
along and take it. If you failed to install the security updates that make
impossible what you claim is a devastating attack, and if you didn't feel
your data was important enough to create and follow a backup procedure, you
also have a much weaker case.
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Im Beitrag <01bddf1b$cf535d20$15efebd0@debbiemi> , "Eric" <erici2112@geocities.com>
schrieb:
>That just goes to prove my point.
Well, not exactly...your point that he made POV-Ray available before proper release
date is simply wrong (it *was* released!!!), and your other statement is something I
do not know for sure!
>> Hmm, I did not know that he is a member...
>
>His statement is that he IS associated with that organization as "assistant
>webmaster" for the Pov-ray page. Is he lying?
I said I don't *know* that he is a team member, he is not listed anywhere in the
program docs and I never met him in the (private area of the) POVRAY forum.
I don't now if he is "assistant webmaster", as I could read out of the IRC he only
said he was offered it, but I may be wrong. If you want to know it you have to ask
Chris Young if he is, he is the team leader and he can tell you definetly.
>And moreover, my message was one of warning to people that were unaware of
>the risks they ran when associating with the #povray channel.
Well, you were not very kind in this either...but whatever problems there are between
you and Twyst, I don't think you should discuss them this way because attacks on your
ot Twysts computers will be nearly impossible to prove - everybody can edit a text
file or a log or whatever, I think.
I would simply forget this and not go there again...avoiding trouble is better then
running against it. Your current way is the one of a child coming to his parents (this
is a metaphor!!!) and telling them another child hit it. What will the parents do? The
only think they can do is tell the other childs parents, not more. And all this
newsgroup can do, is to say that attacking the computer someone else is not "nice",
thats all - the rest has to be settled between you and Twyst (if you both want this)
and does not belong into a newsgroup.
Thorsten
____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: Tho### [at] csicom
I am a member of the POV-Ray Team.
Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://www.povray.org
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
>His statement is that he IS associated with that organization as "assistant
>webmaster" for the Pov-ray page. Is he lying?
He was offered some work as assistant webmaster by us. This does not make him a
POV-Team member, and as far as I am aware he has never stated that he is a
member.
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
I've got to agree with Ken here:
|Life is much too short to get so work up about things like
|this.
Get over it, I mean, you're still young (I assume by reading your posts that
you're mid-teens), don't piss around with insignificant brouhaha. There is
life outside the online world <--- 100% true, less fattening!
Paul
www.symetrixdesign.com
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
my statement was not completely wrong, he states the fact that he jumped
the gun on his web page...check, i don't lie.
as far as this matter is concerned, im sorry if i wasted anyones time, i
just wanted them to be aware of what could happen to them from associations
with this guy.
i am pursuing this matter legally from here on out, so i will post this
only every month or so, to cgrr so that everyone there will be aware of the
risk they take.
Twyst, my lawyers will soon be in contact with you.
Eric
Thorsten Froehlich <fro### [at] charliecnsiitedu> wrote in article
<3613e84c.0@news.povray.org>...
> Im Beitrag <01bddf1b$cf535d20$15efebd0@debbiemi> , "Eric"
<eri### [at] geocitiescom> schrieb:
>
> >That just goes to prove my point.
>
> Well, not exactly...your point that he made POV-Ray available before
proper release date is simply wrong (it *was* released!!!), and your other
statement is something I do not know for sure!
>
> >> Hmm, I did not know that he is a member...
> >
> >His statement is that he IS associated with that organization as
"assistant
> >webmaster" for the Pov-ray page. Is he lying?
>
> I said I don't *know* that he is a team member, he is not listed anywhere
in the program docs and I never met him in the (private area of the) POVRAY
forum.
> I don't now if he is "assistant webmaster", as I could read out of the
IRC he only said he was offered it, but I may be wrong. If you want to
know it you have to ask Chris Young if he is, he is the team leader and he
can tell you definetly.
>
> >And moreover, my message was one of warning to people that were unaware
of
> >the risks they ran when associating with the #povray channel.
>
> Well, you were not very kind in this either...but whatever problems there
are between you and Twyst, I don't think you should discuss them this way
because attacks on your ot Twysts computers will be nearly impossible to
prove - everybody can edit a text file or a log or whatever, I think.
>
> I would simply forget this and not go there again...avoiding trouble is
better then running against it. Your current way is the one of a child
coming to his parents (this is a metaphor!!!) and telling them another
child hit it. What will the parents do? The only think they can do is tell
the other childs parents, not more. And all this newsgroup can do, is to
say that attacking the computer someone else is not "nice", thats all - the
rest has to be settled between you and Twyst (if you both want this) and
does not belong into a newsgroup.
>
>
> Thorsten
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
> e-mail: Tho### [at] csicom
>
> I am a member of the POV-Ray Team.
> Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://www.povray.org
>
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Eric wrote in message <01bddf7b$34be4c60$11efebd0@debbiemi>...
>my statement was not completely wrong, he states the fact that he jumped
>the gun on his web page...check, i don't lie.
Yes he says he jumped the gun and didn't get the FINAL version. IE that
there was a small bug left and the pov team fixed it at the last second. why
are you argueing with the pov team itself? if they had no problem why should
you?
>as far as this matter is concerned, im sorry if i wasted anyones time, i
>just wanted them to be aware of what could happen to them from associations
>with this guy.
>
>i am pursuing this matter legally from here on out, so i will post this
>only every month or so, to cgrr so that everyone there will be aware of the
>risk they take.
Good luck. America has NO jusisdiction on this case because the crime was
perpetrated in a foreign country. Where the IS NO law against nuking. so go
ahead and pay for an attorney, you'll get no where.
>Twyst, my lawyers will soon be in contact with you.
I'm sure he is scared now.
>Eric
>
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
marc wrote:
> >i am pursuing this matter legally from here on out, so i will post this
> >only every month or so, to cgrr so that everyone there will be aware of the
> >risk they take.
>
> Good luck. America has NO jusisdiction on this case because the crime was
> perpetrated in a foreign country. Where the IS NO law against nuking. so go
> ahead and pay for an attorney, you'll get no where.
Well, it's a pity you think there is no international law and it's a pity you
think there is no law against nuking. I'm pretty sure that if you can establish
a clear case you can reach success at demonstrating who 'nuked' you and such a
behaviour can be severely reprimended - but you need a really good reason for to
justify the expense and you need your facts right.Internet is a pretty new area
when it comes to legal issues, but nethertheless the law is not bound by mere
rules that say 'nuking' is or is not a crime. Damaging data in someone else's
property and/or attempting to breach someone's privacy is a crime that has
already lead to prosecutions and convictions, one of the biggest software
supplier (the biggest ?) on this planet has been convicted at least once of such
an offence and is not ready to try doing it again.
Regards,
Al.
--
ANTI SPAM / ANTI ARROSAGE COMMERCIAL :
Pour me répondre, veuillez enlever le Z de mon adresse.
To answer me, please take out the Z from my address.
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Hello all, in light of this recent development, I'd like to add what I
can to this discussion. I'll try to keep it fairly short.
First I would like to say that I was one of the first ops in #povray
along with IR, so I've known Twyst since he first came. Twyst from the
first day was always very enthusiastic to help the channel. He setup
bots and the idea to link dalnet, and efnet together so that the
channels might have a better chance to survive if linked than alone.
(later newnet aswell.) While he and I have at times had our
differences, he has always been a good friend, and has tried to be
helpful to anyone who has had questions. Over the last couple years,
he, I, and the rest of #povray have formed a small community that I
continually enjoy to visit. The topic is not always povray, this is
true. I myself often ramble on about radiance. Honestly though, I don't
think there is a better place to learn and observe how people create
povray scenes, and 3d graphics in general. You can always find someone
willing to look at your images and offer advice and support. You also
have the opportunity to learn how someone else did something you may
find useful later.
I truly hope that Eric and Twyst can work this out reasonably and
calmly. I just wanted to let you, the usenet community know, that
#povray is not the warzone it may seem to be. I can understand Eric's
frustration, though I do not think Twyst is what Eric has made him out
to be either.
Thank You,
Mark Nelson
Nite_Hawk on
EFnet IRC #e #povray
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Eric wrote:
>
> Just thought i would drop a little line about a character called Twyst.
>
I have been following this thread for the last week, as well as having
been a witness to the conversation which led to him getting banned the
second time, and have now decided to post a reply. I have been reluctant
to do so because I'm not really interested in taking part of a whiny
debate, but I really do feel I need to express my opinion on several
issues which have developed as a result of the initial post.
In case it has not yet been mentioned, "Eric" was, and may still be nown
as _panacea and frequented the #povray channel on Dalnet. Other than he
two main instances, he seemed fairly easy to get along with, and I orked
on a small IMP related project with him for a short time.
I was not present during the whole "nuking" incident and only read the
logs. While I feel that Twyst nuking _panacea over a text flood may
have been a bit extreme, _panacea was willing to forgive and forget
about it, they worked out their little problem, _panacea was unbanned,
and everyone was happy. Had _panacea's hard disk been corrupted as a
result of this incident, he sure never bothered to mention it to anyone.
I've had to reload windows before, and I will tell you, it's a pain in
the ass, and I'm not the least bit bashful about expressing my feelings
for microsoft products while I'm doing it. _Panacea did none of these
things. He was only upset about getting banned and threating legal
action for a nuke, but nothing about losing data or having to spend time
reformatting/reinstalling his hard drive.
Three weeks later, Twyst was running a mp3 player script in the #povray
channel, and we all know by now that this led to a long drawn out flame
war which resulted in _panacea getting banned. While this little fight
was going on, I was talking with him trying to calm him down and get him
to drop the whole issue before he got himself banned. He made it very
clear that he was well aware that he would be banned for what he was
saying, and also that he did NOT care about pissing anyone off in the
process. Not only was he chewing out Twyst, he also started chewing out
Tea-Party (another user on at the time), just because Tea wanted the
fight to stop so the discussion could move back to a more povray related
topic.
I personally have to deal with arrogant people in my life (not just
IRC). This might come as a shock to some, but there are a lot of people
in the world who have a "holier than thou" attitude about themselves,
and they can be challenging to work with. Amazingly though, most
people are able to put up with them, or find ways to avoid them.
_panacea was not willing to just grim and bear it or leave the channel
if Twyst's very existance was too much for him to handle. If he was
helping another user, he could have just as easily done it in a private
chat, free from ANY distractions. But since that obviously wasn't an
option, he instead chose to go off and start a flame war instead. As
far as I'm concerned, he got what he deserved. End of story.
Then he posts a message to the newsgroups, hoping to discredit Twyst and
his website, as well as explain to everyone how miserable his own life
really is because Twyst was born. He claims that Twyst's nuke attack
killed/corrupted/erased his harddrive. THIS IS A LIE!!! He did not
spend hours reloading his system, he just made the whole thing up to
garner sympathy, since he realized that his endless whining would
probably go unnoticed unless he could make himself appear bruised and
beaten at the hands of the Mighty Pov-God Twyst. He is only playing
everyone for fools, and he deserves only to be ignored.
As for his #povray2 channel, it is not a channel created for the express
purpose of discussing Povray. It was created out of despise for Twyst
and those who choose to side with him. He has made blatent insults
toward the entire Povray community by stating that anyone who has not
created a large number of scene files (up to his standards no doubt),
does not deserve the recognition of others. The fact that some people
are able to contribute to the development of a raytracing program
without making lots of pretty pictures seems to be a point that
_panacea has missed completely. If you've never entered the IRTC, or
haven't put up a webpage with pictures that have taken hundreds of hours
of work, just remember.... he's insulting you as well. He is NOT making
any friends, and he very well stated that he doesn't care either.
He reminds me, in a way, of someone I knew a long time ago. He was
probably about 10 at the time and seemed to be generally upset with the
whole world because life just wasn't fair and things just never went his
way. That guy grew up and got over his attitude problem and found
that the world really is a much better place from a different
perspective. In time, _panacea will get past puberty and get over his
petty differences. Until then, he should be given as much credibility
as the kid who punches someone bigger than him, then complains when the
other hits back.
Paul Mathis
aka
Restil
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
This is the point of reason I posted about this at c.g.r.r in reply to the
Twysted.net thing.
Having not ever been there at #povray it quickly becomes thought of as a bad
place and prevents others from going there except maybe the risk-takers.
See what I mean? Starts to sound pretty ominous. I don't think this stuff has
any place in the POV-Ray community. <play anthem here>
There's my input (again), cluttering all the NGs some more ;-|
Message <36180766.9C092E2C@tc.umn.edu>, Mark Nelson typed...
> I truly hope that Eric and Twyst can work this out reasonably and
>calmly. I just wanted to let you, the usenet community know, that
>#povray is not the warzone it may seem to be. I can understand Eric's
>frustration, though I do not think Twyst is what Eric has made him out
>to be either.
--
omniVERSE: beyond the universe
http://members.aol.com/inversez/POVring.html
=Bob
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
|
|
