<-Feel free to ignore if I sound drunk and in the wrong newsgrooop...->

Just recently, working on an idea I had gotten from a film (The Cube), I noticed
that I was spending a lot of time waiting.  For POVRAY.  The idea goes like
this:-

Room made up of those eggbox florescent lights you get in offices.  10*10 on the
floor, all four walls and the ceiling. If you have three lights-apiece that's
1800 lights!  So I started thinking about using radiosity to light the scene and
setting the "light bars" to ambient RGB 2 etc, etc...

Either way takes a hell of long time to render.

To the point, I hear you say!!!

I have been flicking through the archives and noticed a lot negative feedback
concerning the new age methods that appear in the commercial apps.

1) Ambient occlusion
2) Environment mapping
3+)Separate output layers (reflection, occlusion, depth, object ID, blah, blah,
blah)

Seems the opinion is that POV does all of this at once and that it just doesn't
matter.  Well, tell that to someone who has to wait for 45 minutes just to see
if they have the Ambient setting right on only one object in a scene with 1800
lights!!

My argument:-

1)  Ambient occlusion map would enable me to simply set the color (Amb/Diff) as
full and use AO to deal with the finicky detailing WITHOUT having to employ OTT
radiosity.  (This should be easier to implement than radiosity anyway!)
2)  Environment mapping would allow me to only shoot the bare minimals (IE the
walls) and then render my character (a miserable robot) without having to use
1800 light sources!!!
3)  The rest would really be useful but I don't wanna bug anyone. (8~}

I say don't too caught up with the purist way of thinking.  POV is made by
people -> people tell it what to do -> if you don't want all the "fudges", don't
use them! -> but POV devs - don't shy away from these little gems, please!!!

P.S.  They didn't complain about the photons did they...      ...fudge, fudge,
wink, wink!

Post a reply to this message

arblick spule wrote:
> <-Feel free to ignore if I sound drunk and in the wrong newsgrooop...->

I don't think that matters much here, as long as you aren't belligerent 
and caustic :)

> 1) Ambient occlusion

Somebody made an AO patch once, can't remember who, or whether it was 
ever released to the general populous.

> 2) Environment mapping
> 3+)Separate output layers (reflection, occlusion, depth, object ID, blah, blah,
> blah)
...
> 2)  Environment mapping would allow me to only shoot the bare minimals (IE the
> walls) and then render my character (a miserable robot) without having to use
> 1800 light sources!!!
> 3)  The rest would really be useful but I don't wanna bug anyone. (8~}

Well, there are ways to do texture-baking in POV. The easiest is to use 
Rune's illusion.inc, which lets you map prerendered images onto your 
scene's geometry. You can literally save hours of render time by using 
it, but it needs proper HDR support. I sent Rune a modified version of 
his file, but realized after I had sent it that my enhancements didn't 
work correctly, as POV was mishandling the HDR format. I really need to 
get back to him about that. The downfall to using illusion.inc is that 
only the surfaces that are directly in front of the camera get rendered.

There is also the possibility for true texture-baking to meshes using 
Mega-POV. This might be accomplished by reading a mesh, gleaning all the 
necessary elements from it (vertices, triangles, UV coords, etc.), 
setting up camera pigments to view individual triangles and then 
rendering the result with an orthographic camera. In fact, I would like 
to formally challenge anyone with too much time on their hands to 
accomplish this. It can be done, I know it can!

> I say don't too caught up with the purist way of thinking.  POV is made by
> people -> people tell it what to do -> if you don't want all the "fudges", don't
> use them! -> but POV devs - don't shy away from these little gems, please!!!

I don't worry about "purist" methods myself, as my computer is too 
intolerably noisy for me to let it render for hours, weeks or days on end.

Sam

Post a reply to this message

stbenge <myu### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> arblick spule wrote:
> > <-Feel free to ignore if I sound drunk and in the wrong newsgrooop...->
>
> I don't think that matters much here, as long as you aren't belligerent
> and caustic :)
>
> > 1) Ambient occlusion
>
> Somebody made an AO patch once, can't remember who, or whether it was
> ever released to the general populous.
>
> > 2) Environment mapping
> > 3+)Separate output layers (reflection, occlusion, depth, object ID, blah, blah,
> > blah)
> ...
> > 2)  Environment mapping would allow me to only shoot the bare minimals (IE the
> > walls) and then render my character (a miserable robot) without having to use
> > 1800 light sources!!!
> > 3)  The rest would really be useful but I don't wanna bug anyone. (8~}
>
> Well, there are ways to do texture-baking in POV. The easiest is to use
> Rune's illusion.inc, which lets you map prerendered images onto your
> scene's geometry. You can literally save hours of render time by using
> it, but it needs proper HDR support. I sent Rune a modified version of
> his file, but realized after I had sent it that my enhancements didn't
> work correctly, as POV was mishandling the HDR format. I really need to
> get back to him about that. The downfall to using illusion.inc is that
> only the surfaces that are directly in front of the camera get rendered.
>
> There is also the possibility for true texture-baking to meshes using
> Mega-POV. This might be accomplished by reading a mesh, gleaning all the
> necessary elements from it (vertices, triangles, UV coords, etc.),
> setting up camera pigments to view individual triangles and then
> rendering the result with an orthographic camera. In fact, I would like
> to formally challenge anyone with too much time on their hands to
> accomplish this. It can be done, I know it can!
>
> > I say don't too caught up with the purist way of thinking.  POV is made by
> > people -> people tell it what to do -> if you don't want all the "fudges", don't
> > use them! -> but POV devs - don't shy away from these little gems, please!!!
>
> I don't worry about "purist" methods myself, as my computer is too
> intolerably noisy for me to let it render for hours, weeks or days on end.
>
> Sam


You need to upgrade to a PentiumIII  !!!  !!!  Or store that bad boy in another
room!

Post a reply to this message

"arblick spule" <aspule> wrote:
> stbenge <myu### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> > arblick spule wrote:
> > > <-Feel free to ignore if I sound drunk and in the wrong newsgrooop...->
> >
> > I don't think that matters much here, as long as you aren't belligerent
> > and caustic :)
> >
> > > 1) Ambient occlusion
> >
> > Somebody made an AO patch once, can't remember who, or whether it was
> > ever released to the general populous.
> >
> > > 2) Environment mapping
> > > 3+)Separate output layers (reflection, occlusion, depth, object ID, blah, blah,
> > > blah)
> > ...
> > > 2)  Environment mapping would allow me to only shoot the bare minimals (IE the
> > > walls) and then render my character (a miserable robot) without having to use
> > > 1800 light sources!!!
> > > 3)  The rest would really be useful but I don't wanna bug anyone. (8~}
> >
> > Well, there are ways to do texture-baking in POV. The easiest is to use
> > Rune's illusion.inc, which lets you map prerendered images onto your
> > scene's geometry. You can literally save hours of render time by using
> > it, but it needs proper HDR support. I sent Rune a modified version of
> > his file, but realized after I had sent it that my enhancements didn't
> > work correctly, as POV was mishandling the HDR format. I really need to
> > get back to him about that. The downfall to using illusion.inc is that
> > only the surfaces that are directly in front of the camera get rendered.
> >
> > There is also the possibility for true texture-baking to meshes using
> > Mega-POV. This might be accomplished by reading a mesh, gleaning all the
> > necessary elements from it (vertices, triangles, UV coords, etc.),
> > setting up camera pigments to view individual triangles and then
> > rendering the result with an orthographic camera. In fact, I would like
> > to formally challenge anyone with too much time on their hands to
> > accomplish this. It can be done, I know it can!
> >
> > > I say don't too caught up with the purist way of thinking.  POV is made by
> > > people -> people tell it what to do -> if you don't want all the "fudges", don't
> > > use them! -> but POV devs - don't shy away from these little gems, please!!!
> >
> > I don't worry about "purist" methods myself, as my computer is too
> > intolerably noisy for me to let it render for hours, weeks or days on end.
> >
> > Sam
>
>
> You need to upgrade to a PentiumIII  !!!  !!!  Or store that bad boy in another
> room!

Err, posted in the wrong room!!!  I do apologize!!! Or not!!!

Post a reply to this message

> Well, there are ways to do texture-baking in POV. The easiest is to use
> Rune's illusion.inc, which lets you map prerendered images onto your
> scene's geometry. You can literally save hours of render time by using
> it, but it needs proper HDR support. I sent Rune a modified version of
> his file, but realized after I had sent it that my enhancements didn't
> work correctly, as POV was mishandling the HDR format. I really need to
> get back to him about that.
>
> There is also the possibility for true texture-baking to meshes using
> Mega-POV. This might be accomplished by reading a mesh, gleaning all the
> necessary elements from it (vertices, triangles, UV coords, etc.),
> setting up camera pigments to view individual triangles and then
> rendering the result with an orthographic camera. In fact, I would like
> to formally challenge anyone with too much time on their hands to
> accomplish this. It can be done, I know it can!

   Just to save you some effort: please don't work on any of these before
trying the new feature on beta 39... :) This advice will apply also for
arblick's project, BTW.


-- 
Jaime Vives Piqueres

http://www.ignorancia.org

Post a reply to this message

Jaime Vives Piqueres <jai### [at] ignoranciaorg> wrote:

> > Well, there are ways to do texture-baking in POV. The easiest is to use
> > Rune's illusion.inc, which lets you map prerendered images onto your
> > scene's geometry. You can literally save hours of render time by using
> > it, but it needs proper HDR support. I sent Rune a modified version of
> > his file, but realized after I had sent it that my enhancements didn't
> > work correctly, as POV was mishandling the HDR format. I really need to
> > get back to him about that.
> >
> > There is also the possibility for true texture-baking to meshes using
> > Mega-POV. This might be accomplished by reading a mesh, gleaning all the
> > necessary elements from it (vertices, triangles, UV coords, etc.),
> > setting up camera pigments to view individual triangles and then
> > rendering the result with an orthographic camera. In fact, I would like
> > to formally challenge anyone with too much time on their hands to
> > accomplish this. It can be done, I know it can!
>
>    Just to save you some effort: please don't work on any of these before
> trying the new feature on beta 39... :) This advice will apply also for
> arblick's project, BTW.
>
>
> --
> Jaime Vives Piqueres
>
> http://www.ignorancia.org

POVRAY 3.9!!!!!!!!!!

Time to be belligerent, or at least annoying.  ;)

Where, where, where, where, where, where, where, when, when, when, where, where,
where, where?!?!?

(P.S.  Disregard my post about being in the wrong room.  I was posting that on
the wrong website.  Doh!!!  Many apologies.)

Post a reply to this message

On 2/09/2010 23:18, arblick spule wrote:
> POVRAY 3.9!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Time to be belligerent, or at least annoying.  ;)
> 
> Where, where, where, where, where, where, where, when, when, when, where, where,
> where, where?!?!?

beta 39 of povray 3.7, not povray 3.9. it will be out next week and has the
means to do texture baking.

-- Chris

Post a reply to this message

On 09/02/2010 10:23 AM, Chris Cason wrote:
> On 2/09/2010 23:18, arblick spule wrote:
>> POVRAY 3.9!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>> Time to be belligerent, or at least annoying.  ;)
>>
>> Where, where, where, where, where, where, where, when, when, when, where, where,
>> where, where?!?!?
> 
> beta 39 of povray 3.7, not povray 3.9. it will be out next week and has the
> means to do texture baking.

for once I'm a bit ahead of schedule ... here's a preview:
http://wiki.povray.org/content/Documentation:Reference_Section_3#Mesh_projection

Post a reply to this message

Jim Holsenback <jho### [at] povrayorg> wrote:
> On 09/02/2010 10:23 AM, Chris Cason wrote:
> > On 2/09/2010 23:18, arblick spule wrote:
> >> POVRAY 3.9!!!!!!!!!!
> >>
> >> Time to be belligerent, or at least annoying.  ;)
> >>
> >> Where, where, where, where, where, where, where, when, when, when, where, where,
> >> where, where?!?!?
> >
> > beta 39 of povray 3.7, not povray 3.9. it will be out next week and has the
> > means to do texture baking.
>
> for once I'm a bit ahead of schedule ... here's a preview:
> http://wiki.povray.org/content/Documentation:Reference_Section_3#Mesh_projection

damn great!

Post a reply to this message

On 2/09/2010 23:54, Jim Holsenback wrote:
> for once I'm a bit ahead of schedule ... here's a preview:
>
http://wiki.povray.org/content/Documentation:Reference_Section_3#Mesh_projection

I've just updated this with details of the new max depth parameter (which
I'm just about to check into trunk).

-- Chris

Post a reply to this message