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Folks,
The povray.org server had a catastrophic hardware failure on March 9 and
it was decided that the best course was to replace it completely.
In doing so I chose to do a full, fresh install of the OS rather than
attempt to re-install the old one, and only import the data from our
backup that we needed to get the various services back up.
As the failed system was 15 years old and had been through multiple
upgrades and patches this meant quite a lot of work to replicate configs
with the latest software versions and required re-compiling all the
custom tools (e.g. the NNTP to Web gateway) we have build over the
years. Hence it's taken longer than I would have liked to get it working
again, but IMO it's worth the effort.
The NNTP server is the first to be brought back online and at the time I
post this is the only service running and publicly accessible. Posts
made here will eventually migrate to the web view once that's sorted and
back up; in the meantime only NNTP users will see this message.
Before anyone asks - yes I did consider pointing the web sites
(povray.org, irtc.org etc) to another server and in fact I did for a
short time, with a simple placeholder page at the root of each site. I
quickly noticed from the logs, though, that almost instantly I was
getting lots of web crawler traffic (google, bing, etc) and that the
server was returning "404 not found" to all accesses excepting the root
placeholder page that I'd put in.
That wasn't desirable as it tells the crawlers that the pages that they
are trying to refresh are no longer there, and they also see the simple
root page as no longer having any links. I considered changing the
config so it returned the placeholder page for all URL's, but that had
the downside that it would replace any cached content with the
placeholder, screwing up future searches.
I decided that rather than muck around with other solutions (e.g. return
a temporary failure for all URL's) I'd be better off spending my time
getting the new server configured, so I pointed the sites back how they
were. I didn't know at that point that the server was toast and thought
it might be only a day or two and haven't had time since then to
re-visit it.
Finally, I'd like at this point to give a MASSIVE shout-out to Andrew at
Netplex Internet in CT, who not only provided us with the replacement
server (a HP DL360 G5 that they were no longer using) but also stayed up
until 5am on Saturday getting it set up and configured to the point
where I could remotely log in and start the setup.
-- Chris
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Forgot to mention ... at this point it appears we've only lost about one
day of data (primarily posts to the newsgroups) as I recovered from a
backup taken the previous night.
-- Chris
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On lun., 2021-03-15 at 13:10 +1100, Chris Cason wrote:
> Folks,
>
> The povray.org server had a catastrophic hardware failure on March 9
> and
> it was decided that the best course was to replace it completely.
>
> In doing so I chose to do a full, fresh install of the OS rather
> than
> attempt to re-install the old one, and only import the data from our
> backup that we needed to get the various services back up.
>
> As the failed system was 15 years old and had been through multiple
> upgrades and patches this meant quite a lot of work to replicate
> configs
> with the latest software versions and required re-compiling all the
> custom tools (e.g. the NNTP to Web gateway) we have build over the
> years. Hence it's taken longer than I would have liked to get it
> working
> again, but IMO it's worth the effort.
>
> The NNTP server is the first to be brought back online and at the
> time I
> post this is the only service running and publicly accessible. Posts
> made here will eventually migrate to the web view once that's sorted
> and
> back up; in the meantime only NNTP users will see this message.
>
> Before anyone asks - yes I did consider pointing the web sites
> (povray.org, irtc.org etc) to another server and in fact I did for a
> short time, with a simple placeholder page at the root of each site.
> I
> quickly noticed from the logs, though, that almost instantly I was
> getting lots of web crawler traffic (google, bing, etc) and that the
> server was returning "404 not found" to all accesses excepting the
> root
> placeholder page that I'd put in.
>
> That wasn't desirable as it tells the crawlers that the pages that
> they
> are trying to refresh are no longer there, and they also see the
> simple
> root page as no longer having any links. I considered changing the
> config so it returned the placeholder page for all URL's, but that
> had
> the downside that it would replace any cached content with the
> placeholder, screwing up future searches.
>
> I decided that rather than muck around with other solutions (e.g.
> return
> a temporary failure for all URL's) I'd be better off spending my
> time
> getting the new server configured, so I pointed the sites back how
> they
> were. I didn't know at that point that the server was toast and
> thought
> it might be only a day or two and haven't had time since then to
> re-visit it.
>
> Finally, I'd like at this point to give a MASSIVE shout-out to Andrew
> at
> Netplex Internet in CT, who not only provided us with the
> replacement
> server (a HP DL360 G5 that they were no longer using) but also stayed
> up
> until 5am on Saturday getting it set up and configured to the point
> where I could remotely log in and start the setup.
>
> -- Chris
Thanks a lot for your dedication.
Many people are following and encouraging your efforts from the two POV
related Facebook groups:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/739767156410999
https://www.facebook.com/groups/fansofpovray
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On 3/14/21 10:10 PM, Chris Cason wrote:
> Folks,
>
> The povray.org server had a catastrophic hardware failure on March 9 and
> it was decided that the best course was to replace it completely.
>
...
>
> Finally, I'd like at this point to give a MASSIVE shout-out to Andrew at
> Netplex Internet in CT, who not only provided us with the replacement
> server (a HP DL360 G5 that they were no longer using) but also stayed up
> until 5am on Saturday getting it set up and configured to the point
> where I could remotely log in and start the setup.
>
> -- Chris
Thank you Chris!
Thank you Andrew!
Bill P.
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Folks,
www.povray.org is back up but without the database. hof.povray.org is
back as it didn't need a database. other sites (e.g. irtc) aren't back
yet, I will get to them next.
If you feel inclined please have a poke around the site to see if you
can see any breakages that aren't related to the DB not being up or
related sites being down (e.g. news.povray.org won't connect). Other
than that it should work. If you see any completely blank pages (as
opposed to connect failures) on the site then that's likely a PHP error;
please LMK.
It will take some time to audit all the PHP code for side-effects as
we've gone from PHP5 to PHP7 (plus all the database calls have to be
changed as the mysql driver was dropped in favor of mysqli in PHP7).
Also please note the mail server isn't back up, so any mails to
povray.org will not go through. (Technically it is up and working, but
the spam filtering isn't back in place and I don't dare open it up to
the world until it is as I'd be swamped).
-- Chris
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On 3/15/21 10:00 AM, Chris Cason wrote:
> It will take some time to audit all the PHP code for side-effects as
> we've gone from PHP5 to PHP7 (plus all the database calls have to be
> changed as the mysql driver was dropped in favor of mysqli in PHP7).
i knew there would be some pain there... i suppose that's why i'm not
getting any response from wiki yet.
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On 16/03/2021 01:24, Ash Holsenback wrote:
> On 3/15/21 10:00 AM, Chris Cason wrote:
>> It will take some time to audit all the PHP code for side-effects as
>> we've gone from PHP5 to PHP7 (plus all the database calls have to be
>> changed as the mysql driver was dropped in favor of mysqli in PHP7).
>
> i knew there would be some pain there... i suppose that's why i'm not
> getting any response from wiki yet.
That's a whole different kettle of fish, unfortunately. The wiki, texlib
and a few other things run in FreeBSD jails (an OS/process abstraction)
that have their own completely separate set of files (basically the
entire operating system). While I technically could try running them
as-is (iffy as we've gone from 32 to 64-bitOS) it's certain that there
would be a bit of mucking around. If I decide to upgrade them to the
latest tools then all the PHP code in there has to be audited as well.
Realistically, for the wiki, unless it's possible to force it to run
with the old php and apache binaries, we'd have no choice but to upgrade
the entire mediawiki codebase to something current as it's way to big to
manually audit/change each place the database is used.
-- Chris
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On 3/15/21 11:11 AM, Chris Cason wrote:
> On 16/03/2021 01:24, Ash Holsenback wrote:
>> On 3/15/21 10:00 AM, Chris Cason wrote:
>>> It will take some time to audit all the PHP code for side-effects as
>>> we've gone from PHP5 to PHP7 (plus all the database calls have to be
>>> changed as the mysql driver was dropped in favor of mysqli in PHP7).
>>
>> i knew there would be some pain there... i suppose that's why i'm not
>> getting any response from wiki yet.
>
> That's a whole different kettle of fish, unfortunately. The wiki, texlib
> and a few other things run in FreeBSD jails (an OS/process abstraction)
> that have their own completely separate set of files (basically the
> entire operating system). While I technically could try running them
> as-is (iffy as we've gone from 32 to 64-bitOS) it's certain that there
> would be a bit of mucking around. If I decide to upgrade them to the
> latest tools then all the PHP code in there has to be audited as well.
last time i touched wikidocgen i was running php7 on my machine so i
have /some/ confidence, however i've not kept up with mediawiki changes
so i don't know what's in store for that... i'm most fearful of table
name changes. didn't that bite us in the ass last time we upgraded?
we /do/ have a most recent sql dump correct? i haven't ran a mediawiki
on my machine in a while. do you think there's some value in seeing if i
can get that running to see if we can even get it to import?
> Realistically, for the wiki, unless it's possible to force it to run
> with the old php and apache binaries, we'd have no choice but to upgrade
> the entire mediawiki codebase to something current as it's way to big to
> manually audit/change each place the database is used.
i would be surprised if the former... i /think/ we both know where this
is going
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On 16/03/2021 04:04, Ash Holsenback wrote:
> On 3/15/21 11:11 AM, Chris Cason wrote:
> last time i touched wikidocgen i was running php7 on my machine so i
> have /some/ confidence, however i've not kept up with mediawiki changes
> so i don't know what's in store for that... i'm most fearful of table
> name changes. didn't that bite us in the ass last time we upgraded?
Your memory is likely better than mine, so perhaps there were. I hope
there'd be some sort of upgrade script if so.
> we /do/ have a most recent sql dump correct?
We have a backup of the DB (not a dump specifically, just the physical
DB directory). While I have yet to bring up mysql I don't anticipate
problems.
> on my machine in a while. do you think there's some value in seeing if i
> can get that running to see if we can even get it to import?
Yes, that would be great. I'll get the DB back running and do a dump of
all the tables once the machine has been moved back to the data center
(hopefully shortly). At the moment it's sitting in an office and has
limited outbound bandwidth.
-- Chris
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On 3/15/21 6:32 PM, Chris Cason wrote:
> On 16/03/2021 04:04, Ash Holsenback wrote:
>> On 3/15/21 11:11 AM, Chris Cason wrote:
>> last time i touched wikidocgen i was running php7 on my machine so i
>> have /some/ confidence, however i've not kept up with mediawiki
>> changes so i don't know what's in store for that... i'm most fearful
>> of table name changes. didn't that bite us in the ass last time we
>> upgraded?
>
> Your memory is likely better than mine, so perhaps there were. I hope
> there'd be some sort of upgrade script if so.
>
>> we /do/ have a most recent sql dump correct?
>
> We have a backup of the DB (not a dump specifically, just the physical
> DB directory). While I have yet to bring up mysql I don't anticipate
> problems.
>
>> on my machine in a while. do you think there's some value in seeing if
>> i can get that running to see if we can even get it to import?
>
> Yes, that would be great. I'll get the DB back running and do a dump of
> all the tables once the machine has been moved back to the data center
> (hopefully shortly). At the moment it's sitting in an office and has
> limited outbound bandwidth.
>
> -- Chris
ok i did some poking around... first off i'm 2 minor rev's behind on my
opsys and i need to keep it there for the time being, so i think
mediawiki v1.33 is the best i can do (v1.35 is the current supported)...
mainly because i'm at php7.2.5
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_version_history
worth continuing?
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On 3/15/21 6:32 PM, Chris Cason wrote:
> On 16/03/2021 04:04, Ash Holsenback wrote:
>> On 3/15/21 11:11 AM, Chris Cason wrote:
>> last time i touched wikidocgen i was running php7 on my machine so i
>> have /some/ confidence, however i've not kept up with mediawiki
>> changes so i don't know what's in store for that... i'm most fearful
>> of table name changes. didn't that bite us in the ass last time we
>> upgraded?
>
> Your memory is likely better than mine, so perhaps there were. I hope
> there'd be some sort of upgrade script if so.
>
>> we /do/ have a most recent sql dump correct?
>
> We have a backup of the DB (not a dump specifically, just the physical
> DB directory). While I have yet to bring up mysql I don't anticipate
> problems.
>
>> on my machine in a while. do you think there's some value in seeing if
>> i can get that running to see if we can even get it to import?
>
> Yes, that would be great. I'll get the DB back running and do a dump of
> all the tables once the machine has been moved back to the data center
> (hopefully shortly). At the moment it's sitting in an office and has
> limited outbound bandwidth.
>
> -- Chris
forged ahead... i have v1.33.4 wiki testbed running
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On 18/03/2021 04:42, Ash Holsenback wrote:
> forged ahead... i have v1.33.4 wiki testbed running
thanks ... As the wiki ran in a jail (kind of like a lite vm with its
own ip adress, daemons and login accounts), it and other related sites
like the texlib etc are last on the list of things I have to recover.
[This is primarily because the jailed processed get a clone of pretty
much the entire server environment and there's no point in cloning it
until I've finished setting the server up.]
If you need data from the server pre-crash I have the wiki db recovered
already and dumped to .sql files (10mb compressed), a tarball of the
http directory (117mb compressed), and a tarball of your home directory
(1.2gb compressed). Just LMK what you need and I'll email you a link.
[If you need the latter it may need to wait until the machine has been
moved back to the DC as the outbound bandwidth at the office is a bit
more limited than the DC.]
-- Chris
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Current status: The main database (user registrations, front-page news
items, links, redirects, and a bunch of other stuff) has been recovered
and upgraded to mysql 5.7. I'm in the process of converting all the PHP
code that talks to it to use mysqli as PHP 7 dropped the old mysql
driver. The parts of it that I've done so far seem to work OK.
The news.povray.org forums database has also been dumped and recovered
in 5.7 and seems OK but I have yet to start on the code conversion.
The povray.org and irtc.org FTP servers are now running again.
The mail server is now accepting mail from outside.
-- Chris
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On 3/17/21 9:57 PM, Chris Cason wrote:
> On 18/03/2021 04:42, Ash Holsenback wrote:
>> forged ahead... i have v1.33.4 wiki testbed running
>
> thanks ... As the wiki ran in a jail (kind of like a lite vm with its
> own ip adress, daemons and login accounts), it and other related sites
> like the texlib etc are last on the list of things I have to recover.
>
> [This is primarily because the jailed processed get a clone of pretty
> much the entire server environment and there's no point in cloning it
> until I've finished setting the server up.]
>
> If you need data from the server pre-crash I have the wiki db recovered
> already and dumped to .sql files (10mb compressed), a tarball of the
> http directory (117mb compressed), and a tarball of your home directory
> (1.2gb compressed). Just LMK what you need and I'll email you a link.
>
> [If you need the latter it may need to wait until the machine has been
> moved back to the DC as the outbound bandwidth at the office is a bit
> more limited than the DC.]
>
> -- Chris
email me a link when you get a moment... all i need for now is wiki db
and my home directory. i'm also playing with skins for the wiki...
figured i'd update the /look/ as well
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On 3/18/21 6:59 AM, Ash Holsenback wrote:
> email me a link when you get a moment... all i need for now is wiki db
> and my home directory. i'm also playing with skins for the wiki...
> figured i'd update the /look/ as well
btw: take yer time... i've had enough for a day or two
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On 2021-03-14 10:10 PM (-4), Chris Cason wrote:
> Folks,
>
> The povray.org server had a catastrophic hardware failure on March 9 and
> it was decided that the best course was to replace it completely.
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you!
> Finally, I'd like at this point to give a MASSIVE shout-out to Andrew at
> Netplex Internet in CT, who not only provided us with the replacement
> server (a HP DL360 G5 that they were no longer using) but also stayed up
> until 5am on Saturday getting it set up and configured to the point
> where I could remotely log in and start the setup.
And thank them, too!
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On 3/17/21 10:14 PM, Chris Cason wrote:
> Current status: The main database (user registrations, front-page news
> items, links, redirects, and a bunch of other stuff) has been recovered
> and upgraded to mysql 5.7. I'm in the process of converting all the PHP
> code that talks to it to use mysqli as PHP 7 dropped the old mysql
> driver. The parts of it that I've done so far seem to work OK.
>
> The news.povray.org forums database has also been dumped and recovered
> in 5.7 and seems OK but I have yet to start on the code conversion.
>
> The povray.org and irtc.org FTP servers are now running again.
>
> The mail server is now accepting mail from outside.
>
> -- Chris
>
>
is see an issue on this page: http://www.povray.org/documentation/
v3.7 seems ok but selecting v3.6 then try to drill down... sends you
back to choice page
also on http://www.povray.org/download/ ... hover around a bit and
notice some of text gets under-lined red. style sheet?
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On 3/19/21 10:38 AM, Ash Holsenback wrote:
> On 3/17/21 10:14 PM, Chris Cason wrote:
>> Current status: The main database (user registrations, front-page news
>> items, links, redirects, and a bunch of other stuff) has been
>> recovered and upgraded to mysql 5.7. I'm in the process of converting
>> all the PHP code that talks to it to use mysqli as PHP 7 dropped the
>> old mysql driver. The parts of it that I've done so far seem to work OK.
>>
>> The news.povray.org forums database has also been dumped and recovered
>> in 5.7 and seems OK but I have yet to start on the code conversion.
>>
>> The povray.org and irtc.org FTP servers are now running again.
>>
>> The mail server is now accepting mail from outside.
>>
>> -- Chris
>>
>>
>
> is see an issue on this page: http://www.povray.org/documentation/
>
> v3.7 seems ok but selecting v3.6 then try to drill down... sends you
> back to choice page
>
> also on http://www.povray.org/download/ ... hover around a bit and
> notice some of text gets under-lined red. style sheet?
or a tag that didn't get closed
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On 20/03/2021 01:38, Ash Holsenback wrote:
> is see an issue on this page: http://www.povray.org/documentation/
>
> v3.7 seems ok but selecting v3.6 then try to drill down... sends you
> back to choice page
Good catch, thanks! Fixed.
-- Chris
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On 20/03/2021 01:41, Ash Holsenback wrote:
>> also on http://www.povray.org/download/ ... hover around a bit and
>> notice some of text gets under-lined red. style sheet?
>
> or a tag that didn't get closed
This was indeed due to an <a name="..."> tag not being closed. It's not
visible on Firefox so I never noticed it, thanks for pointing it out.
-- Chris
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Current status: new server has now been relocated to the data center and
now has its normal bandwidth available again.
I've mostly finished converting the main site PHP code to suit PHP7 and
mysqli, with most of the work being (as expected) in the user
registration, login, password recovery etc code. I've got this working
on a test site and once I've done inspecting a final diff of the code
I'll push it live.
When it does go live (hopefully tomorrow) I'd appreciate it if you'd
bang on it to flush out anything I've missed. I'll let you know when.
-- Chris
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On 3/17/21 9:57 PM, Chris Cason wrote:
> On 18/03/2021 04:42, Ash Holsenback wrote:
>> forged ahead... i have v1.33.4 wiki testbed running
>
> thanks ... As the wiki ran in a jail (kind of like a lite vm with its
> own ip adress, daemons and login accounts), it and other related sites
> like the texlib etc are last on the list of things I have to recover.
>
> [This is primarily because the jailed processed get a clone of pretty
> much the entire server environment and there's no point in cloning it
> until I've finished setting the server up.]
>
> If you need data from the server pre-crash I have the wiki db recovered
> already and dumped to .sql files (10mb compressed), a tarball of the
> http directory (117mb compressed), and a tarball of your home directory
> (1.2gb compressed). Just LMK what you need and I'll email you a link.
>
> [If you need the latter it may need to wait until the machine has been
> moved back to the DC as the outbound bandwidth at the office is a bit
> more limited than the DC.]
>
> -- Chris
downloaded files... thanks for the crib notes on known issues. one other
thing i'm going to need to check my db compliance:
ash@rogue:/users/ash/POV-Ray/WikiDocGen $ mysqladmin version
mysqladmin Ver 9.1 Distrib 10.2.36-MariaDB, for Linux on x86_64
Copyright (c) 2000, 2018, Oracle, MariaDB Corporation Ab and others.
Server version 10.2.36-MariaDB
Protocol version 10
Connection Localhost via UNIX socket
UNIX socket /run/mysql/mysql.sock
Uptime: 11 min 25 sec
Threads: 7 Questions: 12 Slow queries: 0 Opens: 17 Flush tables: 1
Open tables: 11 Queries per second avg: 0.017
if you've seen anything on this ( before i start poking ) let me know
cheers
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Sorry if this is mentioned already, but in Thunderbird I am sometimes
getting the wrong messages with the wrong thread titles. Maybe it's a
database issue?
Mike
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On 21/03/2021 08:40, Mike Horvath wrote:
> Sorry if this is mentioned already, but in Thunderbird I am sometimes
> getting the wrong messages with the wrong thread titles. Maybe it's a
> database issue?
The NNTP server doesn't use a database per se; it's a monolithic app
that stores the articles in its own format.
It's possible something has gone awry in its indexing of the articles.
I'll take a look and see if I can find a way to re-generate the XOVER files.
-- Chris
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On 21/03/2021 01:09, Ash Holsenback wrote:
> ash@rogue:/users/ash/POV-Ray/WikiDocGen $ mysqladmin version
> mysqladmin Ver 9.1 Distrib 10.2.36-MariaDB, for Linux on x86_64
> Copyright (c) 2000, 2018, Oracle, MariaDB Corporation Ab and others.
>
> Server version 10.2.36-MariaDB
> Protocol version 10
> Connection Localhost via UNIX socket
> UNIX socket /run/mysql/mysql.sock
> Uptime: 11 min 25 sec
>
> Threads: 7 Questions: 12 Slow queries: 0 Opens: 17 Flush tables: 1
> Open tables: 11 Queries per second avg: 0.017
>
> if you've seen anything on this ( before i start poking ) let me know
Since we're restoring from .SQL files MariaDB 10 should be fine. I could
possibly even install that on the server, though ideally I'd prefer to
use MySQL 5.7 for the wiki as that's what I'm using for everything else.
TBH it probably doesn't matter as long as you export your final setup
into SQL queries (like mysqldump does) as we could import them into
MySQL. My only concern about that would be that the mysql database
itself (user and privilege stuff) may not be compatible, so for those
you'd need to keep a copy of the queries you use to create those users
and permissions so we can re-run them on the final system.
If I were to install MariaDB on the server it would be version 10.5.8,
so if you want to stick with MariaDB then I'd suggest working with that
version.
-- Chris
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On 2021-03-20 6:46 PM (-4), Chris Cason wrote:
> On 21/03/2021 08:40, Mike Horvath wrote:
>> Sorry if this is mentioned already, but in Thunderbird I am sometimes
>> getting the wrong messages with the wrong thread titles. Maybe it's a
>> database issue?
> The NNTP server doesn't use a database per se; it's a monolithic app
> that stores the articles in its own format.
>
> It's possible something has gone awry in its indexing of the articles.
> I'll take a look and see if I can find a way to re-generate the XOVER
> files.
I submitted an article to povray.binaries.images Thursday night, but I
am not seeing it. Thunderbird records it as having been sent.
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On 21/03/2021 15:26, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> I submitted an article to povray.binaries.images Thursday night, but I
> am not seeing it. Thunderbird records it as having been sent.
I've told the server to re-generate its indexes and overview files; see
if that helps.
I can see a post from you called "Hooded lamp occlusion" in pbi now, so
if that's the one you are referring to, it's definitely there (though I
didn't check before re-generating the indexes, so I don't know if that
was the cause or not).
-- Chris
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Current status: www.povray.org is now back in read-write mode with the
database hooked back in.
I've made extensive changes to the code, particularly in respect to the
user account creation, login, recovery, and so forth.
While I was at it I took out the ability to add a homepage and 'about'
during account creation as 99% of user registrations over the past few
years that had these filled in were from spammers thinking that we'd
display them on the site.
Please bang on the user registration stuff to see if you can flush out
any problems. If you want to create new accounts for testing just use
your email address with a '+' (e.g. 'myemail+tes### [at] mydomain com'). The
plussed address is considered different for registration purposes but
all standards-compliant mail severs will ignore the part after the '+'
when accepting email.
(If you do this please let me know when you're done so I can delete the
accounts; so you don't need to post email address here, just use unique
user names for each and tell me what that is).
Other smaller changes: I have tweaked the navigation menu to add a
'Login' link as I think the old login page was harder than it should be
to find.
I've also changed the povQandT link that used to point to tag.povray.org
to instead be called 'FAQ' and now points directly at the main server. I
edited the QandT pages a bit to try to fit them into the new location a
little better; I will need to re-jig them to use PHP in order to load
the main site theme (they are currently just HTML). At this point I
don't think there's much else on the TAG site that needs to be kept (LMK
if you think there is) so I'll likely change the tag.povray.org config
to just redirect to www.povray.org.
If you find anything broken in the povQandT (apart from some background
images that don't seem to load) please let me know. Also if anyone wants
to volunteer to update the content I'd be happy to drop a zip here or
email it you.
-- Chris
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While doing the restore I took the opportunity to clean out a lot of
cruft that had built up over the years (mostly in temp dirs or
out-of-the way places that aren't referred to by any of the site code).
One location I did keep (at least for now), even though it's not
referenced anywhere I can find, is http://www.povray.org/nostalgia/. It
looks like I copied those files to the server sometime in 2006 but I
can't remember why and there don't seem to be any links to it out there
(tried google's inurl: search and also the wayback machine).
I won't link into the main site as it appears I just dropped them there
for someone as it's just a bunch of images. But the nostalgia is strong
with these ones as any old-timers will know, so I'll hold off nuking it
for now :)
-- Chris
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On 3/21/21 12:26 AM, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> On 2021-03-20 6:46 PM (-4), Chris Cason wrote:
>> On 21/03/2021 08:40, Mike Horvath wrote:
>>> Sorry if this is mentioned already, but in Thunderbird I am sometimes
>>> getting the wrong messages with the wrong thread titles. Maybe it's a
>>> database issue?
>> The NNTP server doesn't use a database per se; it's a monolithic app
>> that stores the articles in its own format.
>>
>> It's possible something has gone awry in its indexing of the articles.
>> I'll take a look and see if I can find a way to re-generate the XOVER
>> files.
>
> I submitted an article to povray.binaries.images Thursday night, but I
> am not seeing it. Thunderbird records it as having been sent.
>
try re-downloading the headers... i saw the same issue couple of days
ago when news 1st came back online. that all i had to do
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Chris,
Thank you for doing all of the work to get the system back up and
running again. I'm sure it's an undertaking on a scale that most of
us can't fully appreciate.
I know that you are busy getting everything re-installed, etc. But I
was wondering if there will be any upgrades/changes to the way the
newsgroups work. I know that a lot of us would like to be able to
include attachments in ANY of the newsgroups.
Perhaps having some more decentralization would be good, if at all
possible. I know that Mike Williams' site has been down for a while.
I backed that up and created a PDF and a zip file of all of his sources.
I have all of Friedrich Lohmueller's excellent work as well.
Perhaps we could have some dedicated space on the new server for that
material, and maybe mull over a mechanism by which the core POV-Ray
material (source, binaries, documentation) could have backups hosted on
one or more other sites.
Again, thank you for doing what I'm sure is a LOT of highly focused,
specialized technical work. Everything associated with the new server
is not free - Perhaps there is something some of us could do by check,
paypal, patreon, ....?
- Bill "Bald Eagle" Walker
(feel free to copy your reply to my email)
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On 3/21/21 5:04 AM, Chris Cason wrote:
> Also if anyone wants
> to volunteer to update the content I'd be happy to drop a zip here or
> email it you.
>
> -- Chris
Send it over. I'll have a look and see if I have any ideas.
Seems like 2021 is the POV-Ray Year of the Update. ;)
- Bill
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On 2021-03-21 4:46 AM (-4), Chris Cason wrote:
> On 21/03/2021 15:26, Cousin Ricky wrote:
>> I submitted an article to povray.binaries.images Thursday night, but I
>> am not seeing it. Thunderbird records it as having been sent.
>
> I've told the server to re-generate its indexes and overview files; see
> if that helps.
>
> I can see a post from you called "Hooded lamp occlusion" in pbi now, so
> if that's the one you are referring to, it's definitely there (though I
> didn't check before re-generating the indexes, so I don't know if that
> was the cause or not).
Yes, that's the one. Nothing I tried to refresh the headers worked, so
I finally decided to unsubscribe and resubscribe to p.b.i., and that worked.
It's odd that I had this problem with p.b.i, but not with p.general.
Thanks again for all your work.
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On 3/21/2021 7:25 AM, Ash Holsenback wrote:
> On 3/21/21 12:26 AM, Cousin Ricky wrote:
>> On 2021-03-20 6:46 PM (-4), Chris Cason wrote:
>>> On 21/03/2021 08:40, Mike Horvath wrote:
>>>> Sorry if this is mentioned already, but in Thunderbird I am
>>>> sometimes getting the wrong messages with the wrong thread titles.
>>>> Maybe it's a database issue?
>>> The NNTP server doesn't use a database per se; it's a monolithic app
>>> that stores the articles in its own format.
>>>
>>> It's possible something has gone awry in its indexing of the
>>> articles. I'll take a look and see if I can find a way to re-generate
>>> the XOVER files.
>>
>> I submitted an article to povray.binaries.images Thursday night, but I
>> am not seeing it. Thunderbird records it as having been sent.
>>
>
> try re-downloading the headers... i saw the same issue couple of days
> ago when news 1st came back online. that all i had to do
How do I do this in Thunderbird?
Thanks.
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On 3/21/21 10:43 PM, Mike Horvath wrote:
> On 3/21/2021 7:25 AM, Ash Holsenback wrote:
>> On 3/21/21 12:26 AM, Cousin Ricky wrote:
>>> On 2021-03-20 6:46 PM (-4), Chris Cason wrote:
>>>> On 21/03/2021 08:40, Mike Horvath wrote:
>>>>> Sorry if this is mentioned already, but in Thunderbird I am
>>>>> sometimes getting the wrong messages with the wrong thread titles.
>>>>> Maybe it's a database issue?
>>>> The NNTP server doesn't use a database per se; it's a monolithic app
>>>> that stores the articles in its own format.
>>>>
>>>> It's possible something has gone awry in its indexing of the
>>>> articles. I'll take a look and see if I can find a way to
>>>> re-generate the XOVER files.
>>>
>>> I submitted an article to povray.binaries.images Thursday night, but
>>> I am not seeing it. Thunderbird records it as having been sent.
>>>
>>
>> try re-downloading the headers... i saw the same issue couple of days
>> ago when news 1st came back online. that all i had to do
>
> How do I do this in Thunderbird?
>
>
> Thanks.
in the left side pane alt-click on a newsgroup
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On 3/21/21 5:04 AM, Chris Cason wrote:
> Current status: www.povray.org is now back in read-write mode with the
> database hooked back in.
>
...
Do I need to login to get at the forums / news.povray.org/groups from
the web page? This link just hangs for me currently.
I mostly use thunderbird except when I need to figure out what the
actual web links are.
Bill P.
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Current status: the webview of the newsgroups is back up again, though
in read-only mode for now (and not taking a feed from the NNTP server yet).
There were a LOT of changes needed to the code to make it work with PHP7
so some breakage or strange behavior can be expected. If anything looks
particularly wonky please let me know.
-- Chris
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On 2021-03-22 11:54 AM (-4), Chris Cason wrote:
> Current status: the webview of the newsgroups is back up again, though
> in read-only mode for now (and not taking a feed from the NNTP server yet).
>
> There were a LOT of changes needed to the code to make it work with PHP7
> so some breakage or strange behavior can be expected. If anything looks
> particularly wonky please let me know.
One thing that was wonky for a long time but seems to be fixed now is
that when non-ASCII characters were entered through a newsreader, they
were incorrectly converted in the Web view. They look fine now.
The Web view also added an extra space if text was indented in the
newsreader. This is still happening.
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On 3/22/21 7:22 AM, William F Pokorny wrote:
> On 3/21/21 5:04 AM, Chris Cason wrote:
>> Current status: www.povray.org is now back in read-write mode with the
>> database hooked back in.
>>
> ...
>
> Do I need to login to get at the forums / news.povray.org/groups from
> the web page? This link just hangs for me currently.
>
Read only access worked just now for me - please ignore my question.
Bill P.
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On 22.03.2021 18:05, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> One thing that was wonky for a long time but seems to be fixed now is
> that when non-ASCII characters were entered through a newsreader, they
> were incorrectly converted in the Web view. They look fine now.
The PHP version was very old. The newer ones fixed lotts of PHP bugs.
> The Web view also added an extra space if text was indented in the
> newsreader. This is still happening.
Extra space? Where?
Thorsten
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On 3/23/21 4:27 AM, Thorsten wrote:
> On 22.03.2021 18:05, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> > One thing that was wonky for a long time but seems to be fixed now is
> > that when non-ASCII characters were entered through a newsreader, they
> > were incorrectly converted in the Web view. They look fine now.
>
> The PHP version was very old. The newer ones fixed lotts of PHP bugs.
>
> > The Web view also added an extra space if text was indented in the
> > newsreader. This is still happening.
> Extra space? Where?
>
> Thorsten
ah ok... you posting here reminded me of one other item i needed to look
at is the multilink extension you implemented. i see 6 files in the
tarball that chris made available. i don't see /any/ mysql calls that
need to be converted to mysqli... appears you're doing it differently.
want me to email you an archive of those files so you can
review/bless/decide /not/ to implement your code.
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On 3/22/21 11:54 AM, Chris Cason wrote:
> Current status: the webview of the newsgroups is back up again, though
> in read-only mode for now (and not taking a feed from the NNTP server yet).
>
> There were a LOT of changes needed to the code to make it work with PHP7
> so some breakage or strange behavior can be expected. If anything looks
> particularly wonky please let me know.
>
> -- Chris
wiki status update: i've found only 21 occurrence (in two files) of
mysql->mysqli that needed to be converted. i've also been able to pull a
file i created from the database, but have /not/ done an import. i'd
like to resist doing that for now unless it's absolutely necessary. i'm
feeling 99% ready to get at a live wiki so i can finish testing
wikikdocgen
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On 2021-03-21 4:27 AM (-4), Thorsten wrote:
> On 22.03.2021 18:05, Cousin Ricky wrote:
>
> > The Web view also added an extra space if text was indented in the
> > newsreader. This is still happening.
> Extra space? Where?
https://news.povray.org/60467377%241%40news.povray.org
My first indent in the code excerpt is two spaces, but the Web view
shows three spaces. A 4 space indent shows as 5, etc.
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On 23.03.2021 13:28, Ash Holsenback wrote:
> ah ok... you posting here reminded me of one other item i needed to look
> at is the multilink extension you implemented. i see 6 files in the
> tarball that chris made available. i don't see /any/ mysql calls that
> need to be converted to mysqli... appears you're doing it differently.
> want me to email you an archive of those files so you can
> review/bless/decide /not/ to implement your code.
Does it even still work? It was very fragile depending on MediaWiki
version...
Thorsten
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On 23.03.2021 14:11, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> On 2021-03-21 4:27 AM (-4), Thorsten wrote:
>> On 22.03.2021 18:05, Cousin Ricky wrote:
>>
>> > The Web view also added an extra space if text was indented in the
>> > newsreader. This is still happening.
>> Extra space? Where?
>
> https://news.povray.org/60467377%241%40news.povray.org
>
> My first indent in the code excerpt is two spaces, but the Web view
> shows three spaces. A 4 space indent shows as 5, etc.
Indeed, I can confirm this. I will see what is going on.
Thorsten
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On 23.03.2021 14:33, Thorsten wrote:
> On 23.03.2021 14:11, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> > On 2021-03-21 4:27 AM (-4), Thorsten wrote:
> >> On 22.03.2021 18:05, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> >>
> >> > The Web view also added an extra space if text was indented in the
> >> > newsreader. This is still happening.
> >> Extra space? Where?
> >
> > https://news.povray.org/60467377%241%40news.povray.org
> >
> > My first indent in the code excerpt is two spaces, but the Web view
> > shows three spaces. A 4 space indent shows as 5, etc.
>
> Indeed, I can confirm this. I will see what is going on.
Ok, so it turns out there are really three spaces in the message. The
reason is, well, Thunderbird. You can see it in Thunderbird using
More->View Source. It implements an email extension on a new server. The
extension is called "format=flowed" and it is known to cause problems
when transmitting source code over email (and thus news messages as
well:
https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/process/email-clients.html#email-clients
Just google "format=flowed thunderbird" (without quotes). You will find
plenty of complaints about it ...
Thunderbird (which I am also using) apparently has bugs with handling
soft and hand line breaks and the correct conversion process to a final
message format. It basically inserts the spaces even for hard line
breaks, which makes exactly no sense at all when posting source code
(which it cannot know, of course). It is only by chance that it then
doesn't soft wrap your code when displaying the message...
Sorry,
Thorsten
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On 3/23/21 9:28 AM, Thorsten wrote:
> On 23.03.2021 13:28, Ash Holsenback wrote:
>> ah ok... you posting here reminded me of one other item i needed to
>> look at is the multilink extension you implemented. i see 6 files in
>> the tarball that chris made available. i don't see /any/ mysql calls
>> that need to be converted to mysqli... appears you're doing it
>> differently. want me to email you an archive of those files so you can
>> review/bless/decide /not/ to implement your code.
>
> Does it even still work? It was very fragile depending on MediaWiki
> version...
>
> Thorsten
yes it was working before the crash... however a /big/ performance hit
when editing/saving the reserved keywords page (it's loaded with
multi-links). having said that... i'm in favor of backing this extension
out. not sure what the busted link fallout will be. i'm hoping isolated
because i've /not/ been using the format. lol... remember i was /not/
pleased with the implementation, because at the release (last minute) i
had to find a way to deal with those links. i think i /might/ be able to
coax wikidocgen to help find them because i already have a case test in
the code.
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On 2021-03-23 9:55 AM (-4), Thorsten wrote:
> On 23.03.2021 14:33, Thorsten wrote:
>> On 23.03.2021 14:11, Cousin Ricky wrote:
>> > On 2021-03-21 4:27 AM (-4), Thorsten wrote:
>> >> On 22.03.2021 18:05, Cousin Ricky wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > The Web view also added an extra space if text was indented in the
>> >> > newsreader. This is still happening.
>> >> Extra space? Where?
>> >
>> > https://news.povray.org/60467377%241%40news.povray.org
>> >
>> > My first indent in the code excerpt is two spaces, but the Web view
>> > shows three spaces. A 4 space indent shows as 5, etc.
>>
>> Indeed, I can confirm this. I will see what is going on.
>
> Ok, so it turns out there are really three spaces in the message. The
> reason is, well, Thunderbird. You can see it in Thunderbird using
> More->View Source. It implements an email extension on a new server. The
> extension is called "format=flowed" and it is known to cause problems
> when transmitting source code over email (and thus news messages as
> well:
> https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/process/email-clients.html#email-clients
>
>
> Just google "format=flowed thunderbird" (without quotes). You will find
> plenty of complaints about it ...
>
> Thunderbird (which I am also using) apparently has bugs with handling
> soft and hand line breaks and the correct conversion process to a final
> message format. It basically inserts the spaces even for hard line
> breaks, which makes exactly no sense at all when posting source code
> (which it cannot know, of course). It is only by chance that it then
> doesn't soft wrap your code when displaying the message...
OK, thanks. I just turned it off on my end. I'll see how that works
out in the future.
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Folks,
I had to re-build the NNTP server indexes and caches again while trying
to diagnose a feed issue. This may cause the need to fetch headers again
(at least for those who had this problem last time I needed to do this).
-- Chris
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Current status: we've run into an issue with the NEWNEWS NNTP command on
the new architecture and have had to disable it. Since this was the way
the web view got postings into the DB I've had to work around it. The
new method works fine but isn't automated yet. I ran it once to import
all the posts that were made since the server came back up; these are
now available in the webview. I'll automate it in the next day or so,
until then new posts won't turn up.
I also noticed an issue with posts containing high ASCII (e.g. hex A0,
which is a non-breaking space). With everything running under UTF-8
encoding now, PHP considers these as invalid code sequences when calling
htmlentities() or htmlspecialchars(), leading to blank lines anywhere
one is present (e.g. http://news.povray.org/60567d33@news.povray.org has
these in the blank section of quoted text you see. If you don't see a
blank section of quoted text, it means we've now fixed it :)
This will likely manifest it as strangeness in other parts of the
webview since invalid code sequences in names, titles, etc have the
potential to get turned into blank strings.
There is a workaround for it (ENT_SUBSTITUTE, which looks fugly, or
ENT_IGNORE (which may have security implications). We'll work out what
to do and let you know. In the meantime if you spot anything that shows
this issue other than in message bodies please LMK.
-- Chris
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