Hi(gh)!

Currently I'm trying to convince a friend of POV-Ray's outstanding 
landscape rendering capabilities by sending him examples from my private 
p.b.i image collection. While browsing through these currently about 
18,500 images stored on my harddisk since September 2000 when I first 
hit p.b.i, I started to think whether it would be reasonable to have all 
these images stored in a publicly accessible database on povray.org... 
images would be categorized by artist, publication date, graphic format, 
size, total number of pixels, x-y ratio, number of colours, color 
distribution and, mostly important a wide range of (possibly 
hierarchically organized) keywords describing image contents and used 
POV-Ray features and techniques. The images also would be logically 
connected to their scene scripts, as far as available.

What do you think about such an idea?

See you in Khyberspace!

Yadgar

Now playing: Little Neutrino (Klaatu)

Post a reply to this message

> Hi(gh)!
>
> Currently I'm trying to convince a friend of POV-Ray's outstanding
> landscape rendering capabilities by sending him examples from my private
> p.b.i image collection. While browsing through these currently about
> 18,500 images stored on my harddisk since September 2000 when I first
> hit p.b.i, I started to think whether it would be reasonable to have all
> these images stored in a publicly accessible database on povray.org...
> images would be categorized by artist, publication date, graphic format,
> size, total number of pixels, x-y ratio, number of colours, color
> distribution and, mostly important a wide range of (possibly
> hierarchically organized) keywords describing image contents and used
> POV-Ray features and techniques. The images also would be logically
> connected to their scene scripts, as far as available.
>
> What do you think about such an idea?

The idea is certainly interesting but it represents a lot of work to 
index and build a relational database like that, if I remember correctly 
my past implications with such a project. However, nowadays many things 
can be automated though.

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

Hi(gh)!

On 16.04.2013 08:56, Thomas de Groot wrote:

> The idea is certainly interesting but it represents a lot of work to
> index and build a relational database like that, if I remember correctly
> my past implications with such a project. However, nowadays many things
> can be automated though.

Most challenging would be to get permission from the 1300+ POVers who 
contributed to p.b.i since 1999 to copy their images into the 
database... this could be avoided if any POVer uploads his/her own 
images by himself, but then it probably would not be a database related 
exclusively to p.b.i anymore! But... why not?

Another difficult issue would be working out the keyword hierarchies... 
perhaps I should start with an experimental local database into which I 
enter my stored images file by file... the bigger it grows, the more 
elaborate the hierarchies become. At a certain stage of development I 
would present a mostly emptied (just the database structure contained 
the keyword hierarchies, but no other images and scripts than those of 
which I own the copyright, i. e. the images posted by me (some 350 
files)) version of the database for demonstration to the webmaster(s) of 
povray.org.

See you in Khyberspace!

Yadgar

Post a reply to this message

> Most challenging would be to get permission from the 1300+ POVers who
> contributed to p.b.i since 1999 to copy their images into the
> database... this could be avoided if any POVer uploads his/her own
> images by himself, but then it probably would not be a database related
> exclusively to p.b.i anymore! But... why not?

That would be indeed challenging as a (large?) number of authors is not 
active anymore and may have moved away, changed e-mails, etc. The second 
solution is away from p.b.i. and so less desirable.

For new images, there would be a need for a-priori permissions which 
might result in less postings to p.b.i. That would also be an 
undesirable effect.

>
> Another difficult issue would be working out the keyword hierarchies...
> perhaps I should start with an experimental local database into which I
> enter my stored images file by file... the bigger it grows, the more
> elaborate the hierarchies become. At a certain stage of development I
> would present a mostly emptied (just the database structure contained
> the keyword hierarchies, but no other images and scripts than those of
> which I own the copyright, i. e. the images posted by me (some 350
> files)) version of the database for demonstration to the webmaster(s) of
> povray.org.

It would be a good start as a proof of concept.

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

Hi(gh)!

On 16.04.2013 13:23, Thomas de Groot wrote:

> That would be indeed challenging as a (large?) number of authors is not
> active anymore and may have moved away,

...or even passed away - the oldest image files in my private collection 
date back to 1998! Who inherits the copyright if no explicit testamental 
provisions had been made? Depends on the country... I don't even know 
how the rules are in Germany...

> changed e-mails, etc. The second
> solution is away from p.b.i. and so less desirable.


> For new images, there would be a need for a-priori permissions which
> might result in less postings to p.b.i. That would also be an
> undesirable effect.

...unless a whole web-based forum solution is included! HUGE task!

> It would be a good start as a proof of concept.

Yes, I think I will come up with a raw concept (tables and relations) 
the next few days and present it here... do you know of any people 
in/around the POV team or the webmasters of povray.org who could be 
interested in an image/script database?

See you in Khyberspace!

Yadgar

Post a reply to this message

> Hi(gh)!
>
> Currently I'm trying to convince a friend of POV-Ray's outstanding
> landscape rendering capabilities by sending him examples from my private
> p.b.i image collection. While browsing through these currently about
> 18,500 images stored on my harddisk since September 2000 when I first
> hit p.b.i, I started to think whether it would be reasonable to have all
> these images stored in a publicly accessible database on povray.org...
> images would be categorized by artist, publication date, graphic format,
> size, total number of pixels, x-y ratio, number of colours, color
> distribution and, mostly important a wide range of (possibly
> hierarchically organized) keywords describing image contents and used
> POV-Ray features and techniques. The images also would be logically
> connected to their scene scripts, as far as available.

You can use Google image search on p.b.i by prefixing your search term with

site:http://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.images/

That allows you to choose date, pixel size, colour, and then even things 
like "find images like this" (which I think mainly looks for the colour 
distribution within the images).

If I use that with my name then it finds (I think) all the images I've 
submitted - plus all the ones I've commented on. Your idea would be 
better than this in some areas (eg rigidly finding images only by a 
certain author or linking to source code) but I wonder whether the huge 
amount of work would be worth it?

Also I don't think any additional permission would be needed from 
authors simply to index the images in a different way. By uploading to 
p.b.i you are accepting that the images will be accessible by the public 
and sites like Google will index them.

Post a reply to this message

> Hi(gh)!
>
> On 16.04.2013 13:23, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>
>> That would be indeed challenging as a (large?) number of authors is not
>> active anymore and may have moved away,
>
> ....or even passed away - the oldest image files in my private
> collection date back to 1998! Who inherits the copyright if no explicit
> testamental provisions had been made? Depends on the country... I don't
> even know how the rules are in Germany...

IANAL, but the concept of copyright in the American sense does not exist 
in Germany. Instead, there is a set of author's rights ("Urheberrecht"), 
and the heirs do get to exercise and benefit from these until so-many 
years after the author's death (the duration depending on the type of 
work AFAIK), after which the work passes on into the public domain.

Post a reply to this message

On Wed, 17 Apr 2013 19:52:38 +0200, clipka wrote:

> Am 16.04.2013 18:21, schrieb Jörg 'Yadgar' Bleimann:
>> Hi(gh)!
>>
>> On 16.04.2013 13:23, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>
>>> That would be indeed challenging as a (large?) number of authors is
>>> not active anymore and may have moved away,
>>
>> ....or even passed away - the oldest image files in my private
>> collection date back to 1998! Who inherits the copyright if no explicit
>> testamental provisions had been made? Depends on the country... I don't
>> even know how the rules are in Germany...
> 
> IANAL, but the concept of copyright in the American sense does not exist
> in Germany. Instead, there is a set of author's rights ("Urheberrecht"),
> and the heirs do get to exercise and benefit from these until so-many
> years after the author's death (the duration depending on the type of
> work AFAIK), after which the work passes on into the public domain.

That's pretty much the way it works in the US, too - copyright is for the 
author's life + 70 years IIRC, and the rights are given to the copyright 
holder or the rights assignee (in some cases the publication), and after 
that period lapses, the work passes into the public domain.

I'm not sure what's different between the German definition you gave and 
what I know of the US system (as a copyright holder).

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> That's pretty much the way it works in the US, too - copyright is for the
> author's life + 70 years IIRC, and the rights are given to the copyright
> holder or the rights assignee (in some cases the publication), and after
> that period lapses, the work passes into the public domain.

From the publicity over Martin Luther King Jr's "I Have a Dream" speech, it
seems that the heirs inherit the copyright (for that 70 years).

Post a reply to this message

On Wed, 17 Apr 2013 15:04:15 -0400, Cousin Ricky wrote:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> That's pretty much the way it works in the US, too - copyright is for
>> the author's life + 70 years IIRC, and the rights are given to the
>> copyright holder or the rights assignee (in some cases the
>> publication), and after that period lapses, the work passes into the
>> public domain.
> 
> From the publicity over Martin Luther King Jr's "I Have a Dream" speech,
> it seems that the heirs inherit the copyright (for that 70 years).

It depends on how the copyright is assigned.  I know from my own 
experience that copyright assignment is sometimes made to the publisher 
until the book is declared out of print, then it reverts to the author.

But Dr. King's speech was in 1963, so even 70 years from then would still 
be 2033 if he'd died at the speech.

So it doesn't even become an issue until 2038.

Jim

Post a reply to this message