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Hi, is there any reason why the windows version of 3.7 beta 34 installs
into:
c:\documents and settings\<username>\application data\povray
when using XP without asking?? IMO thats a really bad place for software,
in a user profile!!!
I then tried to run it only to find out it has an expire of....TODAY!
Terrific. This put me off the beta versions last time, the one time I
decide to try the new version out again and again I'm locked out.
Wonderful!
Why wont 3.7b let me install it where I want?
Why does 3.7b have an expiry date in it when there is no new beta to take
its place? (why does it have one at all!??!?!)
I've been using POV for years and years but this sort of thing makes me look
elsewhere, its really not neccessary...
Cheers Dre
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Dre <and### [at] gmail com> wrote:
> I then tried to run it only to find out it has an expire of....TODAY!
> Terrific. This put me off the beta versions last time, the one time I
> decide to try the new version out again and again I'm locked out.
> Wonderful!
You can extend the beta period of the program with a couple of mouse
clicks. Isn't it wonderful?
> I've been using POV for years and years but this sort of thing makes me look
> elsewhere, its really not neccessary...
Also ranting is not really necessary. Beta software is beta software.
You can't expect a full feature set.
--
- Warp
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Dre wrote:
> Hi, is there any reason why the windows version of 3.7 beta 34 installs
> into:
>
> c:\documents and settings\<username>\application data\povray
>
> when using XP without asking?? IMO thats a really bad place for software,
> in a user profile!!!
>
Because of Microsoft. This was discussed a lot on one of the beta
groups, the reasons are all there if you would like to read over them.
> I then tried to run it only to find out it has an expire of....TODAY!
> Terrific. This put me off the beta versions last time, the one time I
> decide to try the new version out again and again I'm locked out.
> Wonderful!
>
> Why wont 3.7b let me install it where I want?
>
> Why does 3.7b have an expiry date in it when there is no new beta to take
> its place? (why does it have one at all!??!?!)
>
Because it is beta. I know, Google has destroyed the meaning of that
word by getting people to feel that beta applications can be stable and
require little user testing. But for most software folks, beta really
just means "We need more people testing this than just our internal test
team, so here, have at."
The expiration is there because, without it, people think that Beta 24
is stable enough to be running now, and would still be reporting bugs in
it that have been fixed. If you really want to use the beta version,
wait for the button and click it.
> I've been using POV for years and years but this sort of thing makes me look
> elsewhere, its really not neccessary...
>
> Cheers Dre
>
>
Look back at the stable version. If testing software, finding unexpected
bugs and reporting them, or having a program crash doesn't appeal to
you, a beta is not the right place.
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"Sabrina Kilian" <ski### [at] vtedu> wrote in message
news:4ac3f590$1@news.povray.org...
> Dre wrote:
>> Hi, is there any reason why the windows version of 3.7 beta 34 installs
>> into:
>>
>> c:\documents and settings\<username>\application data\povray
>>
>> when using XP without asking?? IMO thats a really bad place for
>> software,
>> in a user profile!!!
>>
>
> Because of Microsoft. This was discussed a lot on one of the beta
> groups, the reasons are all there if you would like to read over them.
I'll go check them out, thanks for the heaps up.
>> I then tried to run it only to find out it has an expire of....TODAY!
>> Terrific. This put me off the beta versions last time, the one time I
>> decide to try the new version out again and again I'm locked out.
>> Wonderful!
>>
>> Why wont 3.7b let me install it where I want?
>>
>> Why does 3.7b have an expiry date in it when there is no new beta to take
>> its place? (why does it have one at all!??!?!)
>>
>
> Because it is beta. I know, Google has destroyed the meaning of that
> word by getting people to feel that beta applications can be stable and
> require little user testing. But for most software folks, beta really
> just means "We need more people testing this than just our internal test
> team, so here, have at."
>
> The expiration is there because, without it, people think that Beta 24
> is stable enough to be running now, and would still be reporting bugs in
> it that have been fixed. If you really want to use the beta version,
> wait for the button and click it.
So because there is an arbritrary date set, testers have to put up with
annoying nag messages?
>> I've been using POV for years and years but this sort of thing makes me
>> look
>> elsewhere, its really not neccessary...
>>
>> Cheers Dre
>>
>>
>
> Look back at the stable version. If testing software, finding unexpected
> bugs and reporting them, or having a program crash doesn't appeal to
> you, a beta is not the right place.
I've used beta's for years yet POV is the *only* program without fail that
has these unneccessary restrictions.
Oh well, looks like I'm on my own here, back to your regular programming.
<looks around for other renderers to try>
Cheers Dre
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On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 12:53:50 +1000, Dre wrote:
> So because there is an arbritrary date set, testers have to put up with
> annoying nag messages?
Yes, the reasons for this have been explained in other threads
previously, but basically boil down to "old beta versions are
unsupported, so rather than chase down bugs in old versions, the old
versions expire so beta testers are forced to move to what's current".
As Sabrina said, if you don't want the inconvenience, don't use the beta,
use the release version instead.
That's the team's decision, and it's based on years of running betas and
having to deal with people reporting issues in the beta. It works for
them, and since they *volunteer* their time to write the code (and it's
their code, more importantly), they get to decide how to run their betas.
Jim
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Dre wrote:
> Why wont 3.7b let me install it where I want?
In a nutshell, you need to select "install for all users"
during the installation to install under program files. This
requires administrator privileges at least under Vista and
it's probably safer to have them under XP as well.
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On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 09:54:46 +0200, Christian Froeschlin <chr### [at] chrfrde> wrote:
>Dre wrote:
>
>> Why wont 3.7b let me install it where I want?
>
>In a nutshell, you need to select "install for all users"
>during the installation to install under program files. This
>requires administrator privileges at least under Vista and
>it's probably safer to have them under XP as well.
I have to temporally switch off UAC to install the beta on my Vista system or it
does not install.
--
Regards
Stephen
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Dre wrote:
> I've used beta's for years yet POV is the *only* program without fail that
> has these unneccessary restrictions.
>
> Oh well, looks like I'm on my own here, back to your regular programming.
>
> <looks around for other renderers to try>
>
> Cheers Dre
>
>
There is a difference between using beta software, and beta testing.
Since the POV-Ray advice is "use 3.6, it is stable" it is obvious that
they are not looking for people to just use the beta version.
If you aren't used to beta testing, I guess it seems like a lot of hoops
to jump through, waiting to hit the button to extend the timer. But,
compared to the NDA and test schedule of playing a beta MMO, or the
several times a week download of code for a multiplayer online game,
this is nothing.
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Christian Froeschlin <chr### [at] chrfrde> wrote:
> In a nutshell, you need to select "install for all users"
> during the installation to install under program files.
Perhaps the installer could make this crystal clear so that the user will
be fully aware what will happen if the selection is or isn't made?
--
- Warp
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Dre schrieb:
> So because there is an arbritrary date set, testers have to put up with
> annoying nag messages?
Yes, exactly :)
BTW, that message will annoy you only once a week - doesn't sound too
bad to me.
> <looks around for other renderers to try>
Feel free to do so.
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clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> Dre schrieb:
> > <looks around for other renderers to try>
>
> Feel free to do so.
Cut that out, you'll lose a sale.
Oh wait, this is freeware developed by people with regular jobs in their spare
time purely for the enjoyment of those who chose to use it.
-tgq
Sorry for the sarcasm, but this is at leats the 34th time we've gone through
this same thread for 3.7 development, not to mention 3.6 and 3.5 beta and RC
development, and it gets a bit redundant, espescially from someone who claims to
be a long-time user.
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Trevor G Quayle schrieb:
>> Feel free to do so.
>
> Cut that out, you'll lose a sale.
>
> Oh wait, this is freeware developed by people with regular jobs in their spare
> time purely for the enjoyment of those who chose to use it.
In my case, it's actually even pure selfishness to contribute to
POV-Ray: I use that renderer myself, so I do want it improved - and
contributing the changes to the official codebase is the easiest way to
keep my own patched version in sync with the official betas :-P
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"Christian Froeschlin" <chr### [at] chrfrde> wrote in message
news:4ac46041@news.povray.org...
> Dre wrote:
>
>> Why wont 3.7b let me install it where I want?
>
> In a nutshell, you need to select "install for all users"
> during the installation to install under program files. This
> requires administrator privileges at least under Vista and
> it's probably safer to have them under XP as well.
Thanks for the info. Thats pretty weird behaviour for an msi file...
Cheers Dre
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Stephen wrote:
> I have to temporally switch off UAC to install the beta on my Vista system or it
> does not install.
That's because there is no built-in support in Vista for letting the
user specify "Run as Adminstrator ..." for an MSI. Here is a workaround:
http://www.symantec.com/connect/downloads/msi-run-administrator-context-menu-vista
Alternatively, it might work to use
runas /user:administrator msiexec -i *.msi
from the command line.
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On Fri, 02 Oct 2009 10:38:40 +0200, Christian Froeschlin <chr### [at] chrfrde> wrote:
>Stephen wrote:
>
>> I have to temporally switch off UAC to install the beta on my Vista system or it
>> does not install.
>
>That's because there is no built-in support in Vista for letting the
>user specify "Run as Adminstrator ..." for an MSI. Here is a workaround:
>
>http://www.symantec.com/connect/downloads/msi-run-administrator-context-menu-vista
>
>Alternatively, it might work to use
>
> runas /user:administrator msiexec -i *.msi
>
>from the command line.
I'll try that when the next update comes out :D
--
Regards
Stephen
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Christian Froeschlin wrote:
> runas /user:administrator msiexec -i *.msi
I opened an administrator cmd.exe and ran it from there.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".
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"Dre" <and### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> <looks around for other renderers to try>
>
Recommendation of a really good one:
http://povray.org/download/#binaries
(It's version 3.6. Look under the appropriate tab for your OS).
If anything, I'd disagree with your complaint so much as to risk being a critic
on the other side of the spectrum. If anything povray's updates are overly
boring. There are other projects in programming where the "stable" version is
hopelessly unworkable and the features-you're-dying-for aren't available until
you get the pre-alpha version. Neither are the case with povray.
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