Why is the bozo pattern called bozo? I have searched around, and the
only reference I've found to a bozo function is in the POV-Ray
documentation. Is it a function that is used just in POV-Ray, or is bozo
a common term for a specific kind of function?

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none <""martin\"@(none)"> wrote:
> Why is the bozo pattern called bozo? I have searched around, and the
> only reference I've found to a bozo function is in the POV-Ray
> documentation. Is it a function that is used just in POV-Ray, or is bozo
> a common term for a specific kind of function?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bozo_the_Clown

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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none <""martin\"@(none)"> wrote:
> Why is the bozo pattern called bozo? I have searched around, and the
> only reference I've found to a bozo function is in the POV-Ray
> documentation. Is it a function that is used just in POV-Ray, or is bozo
> a common term for a specific kind of function?

no idea. Maybe it's named so because it looks somehow silly.

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Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> none <""martin\"@(none)"> wrote:
> > Why is the bozo pattern called bozo? I have searched around, and the
> > only reference I've found to a bozo function is in the POV-Ray
> > documentation. Is it a function that is used just in POV-Ray, or is bozo
> > a common term for a specific kind of function?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bozo_the_Clown

Ah, really? We'd probably *never ever* have found that article without your help
;)

Now where's the connection?

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clipka <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> > none <""martin\"@(none)"> wrote:
> > > Why is the bozo pattern called bozo? I have searched around, and the
> > > only reference I've found to a bozo function is in the POV-Ray
> > > documentation. Is it a function that is used just in POV-Ray, or is bozo
> > > a common term for a specific kind of function?
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bozo_the_Clown

> Ah, really? We'd probably *never ever* have found that article without your help
> ;)

> Now where's the connection?

  Are you sure the pattern is not named after the clown?

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
>   Are you sure the pattern is not named after the clown?

No, I'm definitely not sure the pattern isn't named after bozo the clown. But
are you sure it is? Do you have any substantial hints that it is so?

I pretty much expect the OP to have encountered Bozo The Clown already during
his erarlier research. After all, there's basically no way to google around
that figure.

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clipka wrote:

> I pretty much expect the OP to have encountered Bozo The Clown already during
> his erarlier research. After all, there's basically no way to google around
> that figure.

Heh, and yourdictionary.com harvested the POV-Ray
documentation for a usage examples of "bozo" ;)

"
Modifies a noun

  * pattern: This new pigment uses the bozo pattern to create some nice
             clouds.
"

http://www.yourdictionary.com/bozo

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"clipka" <nomail@nomail> wrote in message 
news:web.49ec4ea6b39f4461a1b9caf0@news.povray.org...
> Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
>>   Are you sure the pattern is not named after the clown?
>
> No, I'm definitely not sure the pattern isn't named after bozo the clown. 
> But
> are you sure it is? Do you have any substantial hints that it is so?

I was imagining Bozo the Clown as having fuzzy hair in the shape of a 
horseshoe around his head, been a very long time since I had seen him so 
that was a glimpse back through time seeing the wiki article.

When using the pigment without any extras (no turbulence, scale, 
transformations) on a unit-sized sphere, half white and half orange, the 
appearance is what I expected to be like Bozo before seeing the picture of 
him. Adding a red nose helps visualize that. This is the view from a camera 
at -3*z:
http://0mniverse.com/povray/bozopatternclown.jpg

I guess David Buck must know the real answer, but I can't remember if it was 
in DKB-Trace prior to POV-Ray Trace. Sure seems like it might have been the 
clown-hair fluff look of it that got it this name, but everyone probably 
mixed that up (like me) thinking it was about the hair and not some other 
attribute (if any, such as "silly" as was already mentioned).

Bob

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Bob escreveu:
> I guess David Buck must know the real answer, but I can't remember if it 
> was in DKB-Trace prior to POV-Ray Trace. Sure seems like it might have 
> been the clown-hair fluff look of it that got it this name, but everyone 
> probably mixed that up (like me) thinking it was about the hair and not 
> some other attribute (if any, such as "silly" as was already mentioned).

Must be an internal joke.  But somehow, I always felt it to be linked to 
a blue sky with white clouds.  Perhaps someone misspelled clown? :P

-- 
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9

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Bob wrote:
> I guess David Buck must know the real answer, but I can't remember if it 
> was in DKB-Trace prior to POV-Ray Trace. Sure seems like it might have 
> been the clown-hair fluff look of it that got it this name, but everyone 
> probably mixed that up (like me) thinking it was about the hair and not 
> some other attribute (if any, such as "silly" as was already mentioned).
> 
> Bob

It's lucky that I still monitor this group :-)

Bozo was indeed in DKBTrace.  In fact, it was one of the first 
procedural textures to be implemented in DKBTrace.  I wasn't, however, 
responsible for the name.  It came from a technical paper presented at 
SIGGRAPH '84 by Ken Perlin called "An Image Synthesizer".  He showed a 
torus with a bozo texture on it.

That paper served as a huge inspiration for me to create the original 
textures in DKBTrace and later POVRay.

http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=325247
http://luthuli.cs.uiuc.edu/~daf/courses/ComputerGraphics/Week8/Shading.pdf

David Buck

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David Buck <dav### [at] simberoncom> wrote:
> Bozo was indeed in DKBTrace.  In fact, it was one of the first
> procedural textures to be implemented in DKBTrace.  I wasn't, however,
> responsible for the name.  It came from a technical paper presented at
> SIGGRAPH '84 by Ken Perlin called "An Image Synthesizer".  He showed a
> torus with a bozo texture on it.

Yes, that colorful donut plausibly explains that name; going from there to the
clown is just a small step:)

> That paper served as a huge inspiration for me to create the original
> textures in DKBTrace and later POVRay.
>
> http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=325247

It seems like the paper isn't available for free (or did anyone find a free
source?); but here's a presentation slideshow on it:

http://www.csee.umbc.edu/~olano/635s07/PSE.pdf


Thanks David for shedding light on this one (and for creating the roots of
POV-Ray, by the way :))

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David Buck escreveu:
> Bozo was indeed in DKBTrace.  In fact, it was one of the first 
> procedural textures to be implemented in DKBTrace.  I wasn't, however, 
> responsible for the name.  It came from a technical paper presented at 
> SIGGRAPH '84 by Ken Perlin called "An Image Synthesizer".  He showed a 
> torus with a bozo texture on it.
> 
> That paper served as a huge inspiration for me to create the original 
> textures in DKBTrace and later POVRay.
> 
> http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=325247
> http://luthuli.cs.uiuc.edu/~daf/courses/ComputerGraphics/Week8/Shading.pdf

Those old-time researchers surely had about as much sense of humor as 
open-source developers. ;)  Today it's all enterprisey, long-named and 
no-fun in a suit...

-- 
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9

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"David Buck" <dav### [at] simberoncom> schreef in bericht 
news:49efbe17$1@news.povray.org...
> It's lucky that I still monitor this group :-)
>
> Bozo was indeed in DKBTrace.  In fact, it was one of the first procedural 
> textures to be implemented in DKBTrace.  I wasn't, however, responsible 
> for the name.  It came from a technical paper presented at SIGGRAPH '84 by 
> Ken Perlin called "An Image Synthesizer".  He showed a torus with a bozo 
> texture on it.
>
> That paper served as a huge inspiration for me to create the original 
> textures in DKBTrace and later POVRay.
>
> http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=325247
> http://luthuli.cs.uiuc.edu/~daf/courses/ComputerGraphics/Week8/Shading.pdf
>

Nice, David. This little piece of info should go into some kind of 
Historical Repository for POV-Ray, under the chapter "Foundations & Sources" 
:-)

Thomas

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Thomas de Groot wrote:
> "David Buck" <dav### [at] simberoncom> schreef in bericht 
> news:49efbe17$1@news.povray.org...
>> It's lucky that I still monitor this group :-)
>>
>> Bozo was indeed in DKBTrace.  In fact, it was one of the first procedural 
>> textures to be implemented in DKBTrace.  I wasn't, however, responsible 
>> for the name.  It came from a technical paper presented at SIGGRAPH '84 by 
>> Ken Perlin called "An Image Synthesizer".  He showed a torus with a bozo 
>> texture on it.
>>
>> That paper served as a huge inspiration for me to create the original 
>> textures in DKBTrace and later POVRay.
>>
>> http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=325247
>> http://luthuli.cs.uiuc.edu/~daf/courses/ComputerGraphics/Week8/Shading.pdf
>>
> 
> Nice, David. This little piece of info should go into some kind of 
> Historical Repository for POV-Ray, under the chapter "Foundations & Sources" 
> :-)
> 
> Thomas 
> 
> 

I'm not disagreeing, but this is only one small, almost insignificant 
piece in the development of POVRay.  It would seem out of place if it 
was the only little tidbit there.

If I thought there was a market for it, I could write a book on the 
origins of DKBTrace and POVRay to cover little things like that.  For 
example,

	- the original inspiration for DKBTrace
	- using calculus for quadric surfaces
	- the pesky black speckle problem
	- the pain of CSG
	- solid textures and where they came from
	- refraction and how to get it wrong
	- calming down the waves pattern
	- layered textures
	- building the roman towers
	- early images
	- introducing spheres
	- Phong specular highlights
	- the transition from DKBTrace to POVRay
	- early work on POVRay
	- version control tools - ZIP, ZModem and 2400 baud modems
	- POVRay 1.0 at SIGGRAPH '92

Maybe I'll toss around the idea.  I already have a science fiction book 
I've submitted to a publisher.  This could be a fun book to write. 
Would there be interest in a book like this?

David Buck

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David Buck wrote:
...
> Maybe I'll toss around the idea.  I already have a science fiction book 
> I've submitted to a publisher.  This could be a fun book to write. Would 
> there be interest in a book like this?
> 
> David Buck

Absolutely!!!

      -=- Larry -=-

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Larry Hudson wrote:
> David Buck wrote:
> ...
>> Maybe I'll toss around the idea.  I already have a science fiction 
>> book I've submitted to a publisher.  This could be a fun book to 
>> write. Would there be interest in a book like this?
>>
>> David Buck
> 
> Absolutely!!!
> 
>      -=- Larry -=-

Yes, you can count on all of us 9 regulars of the pov newsgroups. ;)

I know I met povray through a book by Dan Farmer and others... :)

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nemesis wrote:
> Larry Hudson wrote:
>> David Buck wrote:
>> ...
>>> Maybe I'll toss around the idea.  I already have a science fiction 
>>> book I've submitted to a publisher.  This could be a fun book to 
>>> write. Would there be interest in a book like this?
>>>
>>> David Buck
>>
>> Absolutely!!!
>>
>>      -=- Larry -=-
> 
> Yes, you can count on all of us 9 regulars of the pov newsgroups. ;)
> 
> I know I met povray through a book by Dan Farmer and others... :)

Excellent. I think 9 should be enough to convince any publisher :-)

I'm feeling more and more that there's an interesting story to be told 
about DKBTrace/POVRay that I'm the only person in a position to tell. 
Others can talk about POVRay and what it does but I'm the only one who 
knows where the ideas came from and how it all came to be.  My wife is 
encouraging me to pursue the idea.  I think I'll do some basic research 
and see if it makes sense to propose it to a publisher.

Thanks
David Buck

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On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 17:06:19 -0400, David Buck <dav### [at] simberoncom> wrote:

>Excellent. I think 9 should be enough to convince any publisher :-)

As they say in the American idiom, "Go for it". 

I'll buy one if it isn't in the local library :-)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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David Buck wrote:

> I'm feeling more and more that there's an interesting story to be told 
> about DKBTrace/POVRay that I'm the only person in a position to tell. 

The story is interesting but probably not so for enough people
(although more than 9) if it stands by itself. However, it might
be the seeding point for a general POV-Ray book which appeals to
a wider audience as well. I think there is one from 1994 and that
there have been later attempts - I was surprised to find there is
a dedicated newsgroup p.d.books for this already - which went
nowhere. This might be different if the original author
is a driving force behind it.

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David Buck wrote:

> I'm feeling more and more that there's an interesting story to be told 
> about DKBTrace/POVRay that I'm the only person in a position to tell. 
> Others can talk about POVRay and what it does but I'm the only one who 
> knows where the ideas came from and how it all came to be.  M

I have always been curious about this story.

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On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 17:46:03 -0400, Jim Charter wrote:

> David Buck wrote:
> 
>> I'm feeling more and more that there's an interesting story to be told
>> about DKBTrace/POVRay that I'm the only person in a position to tell.
>> Others can talk about POVRay and what it does but I'm the only one who
>> knows where the ideas came from and how it all came to be.  M
> 
> I have always been curious about this story.

Same here. :-)

Jim

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"Jim Charter" <jrc### [at] msncom> schreef in bericht 
news:49f77936$1@news.povray.org...
>
> I have always been curious about this story.

Yes indeed!

Thomas

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David Buck <dav### [at] simberoncom> wrote:
> I'm feeling more and more that there's an interesting story to be told
> about DKBTrace/POVRay that I'm the only person in a position to tell.
> Others can talk about POVRay and what it does but I'm the only one who
> knows where the ideas came from and how it all came to be.  My wife is
> encouraging me to pursue the idea.  I think I'll do some basic research
> and see if it makes sense to propose it to a publisher.

Just in case the feedback from conventional publishers would be lousy, how about
going for Print On Demand?

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clipka wrote:
> David Buck <dav### [at] simberoncom> wrote:
>> I'm feeling more and more that there's an interesting story to be told
>> about DKBTrace/POVRay that I'm the only person in a position to tell.
>> Others can talk about POVRay and what it does but I'm the only one who
>> knows where the ideas came from and how it all came to be.  My wife is
>> encouraging me to pursue the idea.  I think I'll do some basic research
>> and see if it makes sense to propose it to a publisher.
> 
> Just in case the feedback from conventional publishers would be lousy, how about
> going for Print On Demand?
> 

Print on Demand is always an option but you do need to anticipate lower 
sales and much more work on marketing.  It's a definite option, though.

David

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On Sun, 03 May 2009 07:41:11 -0400, clipka wrote:

> David Buck <dav### [at] simberoncom> wrote:
>> I'm feeling more and more that there's an interesting story to be told
>> about DKBTrace/POVRay that I'm the only person in a position to tell.
>> Others can talk about POVRay and what it does but I'm the only one who
>> knows where the ideas came from and how it all came to be.  My wife is
>> encouraging me to pursue the idea.  I think I'll do some basic research
>> and see if it makes sense to propose it to a publisher.
> 
> Just in case the feedback from conventional publishers would be lousy,
> how about going for Print On Demand?

Or an e-book, I have some friends who have self-published an e-book for a 
niche market, and while there is a risk of piracy, enough were willing to 
pay for it that they did very well.

One friend wrote a book about a little-used firewall/proxy solution and 
priced it at $29.95.  He sold about 1,000 copies of it - not a lot in the 
world of publishing (not enough for any serious publisher to pick it up), 
but he made > $30K for it, minus the price of a copy of Framemaker, which 
I recall is what he published it with.

Conversely, the first book I did, we sold about 7,000 copies and I made 
about $1.50/copy - not quite enough to pay back the advance I received.

Jim

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Jim Henderson wrote:
> Conversely, the first book I did, we sold about 7,000 copies and I made 
> about $1.50/copy - not quite enough to pay back the advance I received.

Indeed - the book publishing industry really isn't very profitable for the
majority of authors. I recall reading the "Advice to Authors, by Anonymae"
article in RTN many years ago, and suspect that many of the things in it are
still true today.

  http://tog.acm.org/resources/RTNews/html/rtnv9n2.html#art2

Also, the attitude of some publishers towards what they get when a contract is
signed has to be taken into consideration: see for example the Mathworld story
at http://www.ericweisstein.com/authors-rights/erics_commentary.html.

-- Chris

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David Buck wrote:
> I'm feeling more and more that there's an interesting story to be told 
> about DKBTrace/POVRay that I'm the only person in a position to tell. 
> Others can talk about POVRay and what it does but I'm the only one who 
> knows where the ideas came from and how it all came to be.  My wife is 
> encouraging me to pursue the idea.  I think I'll do some basic research 
> and see if it makes sense to propose it to a publisher.

It would be an interesting thing to read, especially getting into the technical
areas. But I don't know if a traditional publisher would be convinced of the
potential. I would suggest perhaps using one of the print-on-demand services
that allow books to be ordered via the internet (e.g. the POV-Ray website could
link to or sell them).

Probably I ought to make the docs available that way someday too; I personally
(having grown up in the pre-personal computer era) prefer tutorial-type
documentation in dead tree format, and in fact one of the first things I did
when learning POV-Ray back in the 1.0 days was print out the entire manual. (I
can remember this because I only a few weeks back did a garage clean-out and
came across the original printout I did about 15 years ago!)

I also would be keen to see a new beginners-type book on POV-Ray, however that's
 a fair chunk of work, though it's possible it could be based on one of the
existing (old) ones as a starting point; I think Eduard's one is probably the
more recent, and I seem to recall he did get the copyright back.

-- Chris

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