Nicolas Alvarez <nic### [at] gmailisthebestcom> wrote:
> I find it funny that you asked for clouds on the newsgroup, and you 
> weren't asked about that; yet you were asked how many lines of code DKB 
> and current POV have, and you didn't know.

  For those interested, here are some line counts:

  "Lines" means just the raw number of lines, while "LOC" = "lines of code"
means lines when all comments and empty lines have been removed. (Don't
read this with a variable-width font, please.)

                     Lines    LOC
                     -----    ---
  POV-Ray 3.1 core:  140494   74127
  Windows frontend:   24177   18029
  Unix frontend:       4084    2002
  DOS frontend:       10155    6491
  Total:             178910  100649

  POV-Ray 3.5 core:  160028   81526
  Windows frontend:   70912   53690
  Unix frontend:       7593    3911
  Total:             238533  139127

  POV-Ray 3.6 core:  159906   81470
  Windows frontend:   64934   49077
  Unix frontend:       7529    3814
  Total:             232369  134361

  POV-Ray 3.7b core: 174960   87384
  Windows frontend:   72833   52912
  Unix frontend:       1254     609
  Total:             249047  140905

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> I find it funny that you asked for clouds on the newsgroup, and you 
> weren't asked about that; yet you were asked how many lines of code DKB 
> and current POV have, and you didn't know.

Re-reading what I wrote, I sounded a bit rude... of course not intended.

Post a reply to this message

>   Windows frontend:   72833   52912
>   Unix frontend:       1254     609

I feel ashamed for using Windows :-)

Post a reply to this message

Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
>> I find it funny that you asked for clouds on the newsgroup, and you 
>> weren't asked about that; yet you were asked how many lines of code 
>> DKB and current POV have, and you didn't know.
> 
> Re-reading what I wrote, I sounded a bit rude... of course not intended.

I didn't read any rudeness into the message at all.  That's simply the 
way it happened.  They asked me for some sample questions they could ask 
if they ran out of their own questions.  One sample question I wrote was 
about clouds.  Then I thought "I don't really know how they make modern 
clouds - I'd better ask."

As it turns out, they didn't really ask any of my questions which is 
fine.  They did ask a few that were hard to answer (Lines of code, for 
example - until you measure it's hard to guess).  They didn't tell us in 
advance what questions they were going to ask.

David

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
> Nicolas Alvarez <nic### [at] gmailisthebestcom> wrote:
>> I find it funny that you asked for clouds on the newsgroup, and you 
>> weren't asked about that; yet you were asked how many lines of code DKB 
>> and current POV have, and you didn't know.
> 
>   For those interested, here are some line counts:
> 
>   "Lines" means just the raw number of lines, while "LOC" = "lines of code"
> means lines when all comments and empty lines have been removed. (Don't
> read this with a variable-width font, please.)
> 
>                      Lines    LOC
>                      -----    ---
>   POV-Ray 3.1 core:  140494   74127
>   Windows frontend:   24177   18029
>   Unix frontend:       4084    2002
>   DOS frontend:       10155    6491
>   Total:             178910  100649
> 
>   POV-Ray 3.5 core:  160028   81526
>   Windows frontend:   70912   53690
>   Unix frontend:       7593    3911
>   Total:             238533  139127
> 
>   POV-Ray 3.6 core:  159906   81470
>   Windows frontend:   64934   49077
>   Unix frontend:       7529    3814
>   Total:             232369  134361
> 
>   POV-Ray 3.7b core: 174960   87384
>   Windows frontend:   72833   52912
>   Unix frontend:       1254     609
>   Total:             249047  140905
> 


Do these totals count .c and .h files only or do they include things 
like documentation, makefiles, readme's, etc?

David

Post a reply to this message

Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> I liked how he thought "wait, how did you do THAT with MY program!?"

I've uploaded the picture of the sandwich to povray.binaries.images. 
It's called snack.  At the time, DKBTrace managed textures for an entire 
object and didn't allow you to say "for this part of a CSG difference, 
use this texture".  This means that for the bread, it wasn't possible to 
texture the crust separately from the flat side.  It all had to be the 
same texture.  The same applies to the ham - it wasn't possible to get a 
dark outside with a light inside.

Tom was just being creative.  He modeled two pieces of bread that 
overlapped in space.  One was a bit flatter and longer and the other was 
thicker and shorter.  The long flatter one had a dark color and appeared 
as the crust.  The thicker shorter one had a light color and appeared as 
the cut side of the bread.

In response to this image, I added the ability to separately texture 
different parts of a CSG so you can do it with a single object and apply 
the textures differently for every CSG part.

David Buck

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
> Nicolas Alvarez <nic### [at] gmailisthebestcom> wrote:
>> I find it funny that you asked for clouds on the newsgroup, and you 
>> weren't asked about that; yet you were asked how many lines of code DKB 
>> and current POV have, and you didn't know.
> 
>   For those interested, here are some line counts:
> 
>   "Lines" means just the raw number of lines, while "LOC" = "lines of code"
> means lines when all comments and empty lines have been removed. (Don't
> read this with a variable-width font, please.)
> 
>                      Lines    LOC
>                      -----    ---
>   POV-Ray 3.1 core:  140494   74127
>   Windows frontend:   24177   18029
>   Unix frontend:       4084    2002
>   DOS frontend:       10155    6491
>   Total:             178910  100649
> 
>   POV-Ray 3.5 core:  160028   81526
>   Windows frontend:   70912   53690
>   Unix frontend:       7593    3911
>   Total:             238533  139127
> 
>   POV-Ray 3.6 core:  159906   81470
>   Windows frontend:   64934   49077
>   Unix frontend:       7529    3814
>   Total:             232369  134361
> 
>   POV-Ray 3.7b core: 174960   87384
>   Windows frontend:   72833   52912
>   Unix frontend:       1254     609
>   Total:             249047  140905
> 

The results I gave for DKBTrace were for 2.0.  For 2.12 the total line 
count for all .c and .h files is 16,900.  My on-air estimate of 10,000 
is probably reasonable for uncommented LOC.  I'm impressed that I came 
as close as I did.

David

Post a reply to this message

David Buck <dav### [at] simberoncom> wrote:
> The FLOSS Weekly episode on POV-Ray has now been posted.
> http://twit.tv/floss24
> Enjoy.
> David Buck

Rune might get a kick out of the host's reaction to his holographic projector
animation:
"If you put this on youtube, he'd have a whole business."

But of course someone did repeat the slur, for which I'm probably the only one
in the world who objects to, "Povray is a renderer, not a modeler."

Post a reply to this message

David Buck <dav### [at] simberoncom> wrote:
> Do these totals count .c and .h files only or do they include things 
> like documentation, makefiles, readme's, etc?

  Only C(++) source code.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Jan Dvorak wrote:
> 
>>   Windows frontend:   72833   52912
>>   Unix frontend:       1254     609
> 
> I feel ashamed for using Windows :-)

Doesn't Windows have stuff like a syntax-highlighting editor that the 
Unix version doesn't?

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     On what day did God create the body thetans?

Post a reply to this message

"gregjohn" <pte### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> But of course someone did repeat the slur, for which I'm probably the only one
> in the world who objects to, "Povray is a renderer, not a modeler."

hey!  all of us SDL coders contest that!  ;)

Post a reply to this message

Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Jan Dvorak wrote:
> >
> >>   Windows frontend:   72833   52912
> >>   Unix frontend:       1254     609
> >
> > I feel ashamed for using Windows :-)
>
> Doesn't Windows have stuff like a syntax-highlighting editor that the
> Unix version doesn't?

yes, indeed.  They should've added the source code of vim or emacs as well... ;)

Post a reply to this message

nemesis wrote:
> yes, indeed.  They should've added the source code of vim or emacs as well... ;)

Don't tempt me.

Post a reply to this message

Chris Cason <del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote:
> nemesis wrote:
> > yes, indeed.  They should've added the source code of vim or emacs as well... ;)
>
> Don't tempt me.

I meant add their code size to the statistics... :)

Post a reply to this message

gregjohn <pte### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> But of course someone did repeat the slur, for which I'm probably the only one
> in the world who objects to, "Povray is a renderer, not a modeler."

  In common usage in the computer graphics community "modeler" implies
real-time preview of the model which you can edit on-the-fly.

  You might define the SDL as being a "modeler", but that would go against
common usage, and would be quite far-fetched.

  When someone says "POV-Ray is not a modeler", he is talking to the
computer graphics community, and this community understands what "modeler"
means in this context. Thus the statement is correct.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

To me, "not a modeler"  means, "cannot model" rather than, "is not a GUI
modeler."



Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> gregjohn <pte### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> > But of course someone did repeat the slur, for which I'm probably the only one
> > in the world who objects to, "Povray is a renderer, not a modeler."
>
>   In common usage in the computer graphics community "modeler" implies
> real-time preview of the model which you can edit on-the-fly.
>
>   You might define the SDL as being a "modeler", but that would go against
> common usage, and would be quite far-fetched.
>
>   When someone says "POV-Ray is not a modeler", he is talking to the
> computer graphics community, and this community understands what "modeler"
> means in this context. Thus the statement is correct.
>
> --
>                                                           - Warp

Post a reply to this message

gregjohn <pte### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> To me, "not a modeler"  means, "cannot model" rather than, "is not a GUI
> modeler."

  That's like saying that "not a can opener" means "cannot open a can".

  An axe can be used to open a can, but it's still not a can opener.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

>>>>> "William" == William Tracy <wtr### [at] calpolyedu> writes:

William> Just the other week, I watched this (also hour-long) video of Linus Torvalds
William> talking about Git revision control:
William> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XpnKHJAok8

Oddly enough, I also did a followon to that Google Tech Talk, at

      http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3999952944619245780

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<mer### [at] stonehengecom> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

Post a reply to this message

>>>>> "David" == David Buck <dav### [at] simberoncom> writes:

David> They asked me for some sample questions they could ask if they ran out
David> of their own questions.  One sample question I wrote was about clouds.

Yes, as it was, we had plenty of good interaction, and never fell into the
"uh, what do we ask next" problem.  You guys provided plenty of material for
us to riff forward with, without resorting to our notes.  Thanks for the
backup questions though.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<mer### [at] stonehengecom> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

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nice to see you here, Mr. Schwartz!

Post a reply to this message

>>>>> "nemesis" == nemesis  <nam### [at] gmailcom> writes:

nemesis> nice to see you here, Mr. Schwartz!

It's probably only temporary.  As you might suspect, I have my fingers in far
more pies than I can ever eat in a lifetime already.  I just wanted to see
some of the followup that Dave referenced when we were taping the Smalltalk
podcast yesterday, and respond to any relevant points.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<mer### [at] stonehengecom> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

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Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>> "nemesis" == nemesis  <nam### [at] gmailcom> writes:
> 
> nemesis> nice to see you here, Mr. Schwartz!
> 
> As you might suspect, I have my fingers in far
> more pies than I can ever eat in a lifetime already.

That's actually a requirement for using POV-Ray, so welcome to the club :)

-- 
...Ben Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com

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On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 20:42:54 -0500, David Buck <dav### [at] simberoncom> wrote:

>The FLOSS Weekly episode on POV-Ray has now been posted.
>
>	http://twit.tv/floss24
>
>Enjoy.
>
I enjoyed the broadcast but what a pair of bankers the hosts are.
What is a senior dude FFS?


Regards
	Stephen

Post a reply to this message

"gregjohn" wrote:
> Rune might get a kick out of the host's reaction to his holographic
> projector animation:
> "If you put this on youtube, he'd have a whole business."

I'm hearing the show now and heard that bit before I read your post. I was 
very surprised when my animation was mentioned! And Chris even got the 
explanation exactly right.

> But of course someone did repeat the slur, for which I'm probably the only 
> one
> in the world who objects to, "Povray is a renderer, not a modeler."

I have to agree with Warp. POV-Ray is excellent for certain types of 
procedural modelling, but calling it a modeller will be highly confusing to 
most people. I love "modelling" with POV-Ray, and my recent Metal & Flowers 
image is a good example of something that would have been much more 
difficult and cumbersome for me to make in a GUI modeller, if not 
impossible. But the most typical modelling task is modelling *characters* 
and POV-Ray is awful at that. Sure you can make *something* - like I have 
indeed tried myself earlier - but you have to make do with what's possible 
in the program rather than what you can imagine in your head, and you can 
definitely forget all about realism.

Anyway, great radio show! It was very interesting and cool to listen to. :)

Rune
-- 
http://runevision.com

Post a reply to this message

Rune <aut### [at] runevisioncom> wrote:
> I was 
> very surprised when my animation was mentioned!

  And I was glad my SDL raytracer was mentioned as well. :)

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

>>>>> "Warp" == Warp  <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> writes:

Warp>   And I was glad my SDL raytracer was mentioned as well. :)

Well, when I stumbled across it having just installed POVRay looking for
examples, I was ... amused.  As a proxy for the audience listener, I had to
ask about it. :)

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<mer### [at] stonehengecom> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

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>>>>> "Stephen" == Stephen  <mcavoysATaolDOTcom@> writes:

Stephen> I enjoyed the broadcast but what a pair of bankers the hosts are.

Stephen> What is a senior dude FFS?

Tell me what a "banker" is, and I'll tell you what a "senior dude" is.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<mer### [at] stonehengecom> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:53:50 -0800, mer### [at] stonehengecom (Randal L. Schwartz)
wrote:

>>>>>> "Stephen" == Stephen  <mcavoysATaolDOTcom@> writes:
>
>Stephen> I enjoyed the broadcast but what a pair of bankers the hosts are.
>
>Stephen> What is a senior dude FFS?
>
>Tell me what a "banker" is, and I'll tell you what a "senior dude" is.

I know what a senior dude is I'm just amazed that they used term. Banker is a
politer way of saying self abuser. 
Don't mind me I'm too old to like adults speaking like children. Groovy and hip
man. I notice that neither David nor Chris did.

Regards
	Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 18:34:53 +0000, Stephen <mcavoysATaolDOTcom@> wrote:

>I know what a senior dude is I'm just amazed that they used term

Or I'm just amazed that they used the term, even

Regards
	Stephen

Post a reply to this message

Stephen wrote:
> Don't mind me I'm too old to like adults speaking like children. Groovy and hip
> man. I notice that neither David nor Chris did.

I think most americans speak that way.  At least that's what I can tell 
from radio DJs, sitcoms and interviewers like David Letterman or Jay 
Leno. :P

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:53:50 -0800, mer### [at] stonehengecom (Randal L. Schwartz)
wrote:

>>>>>> "Stephen" == Stephen  <mcavoysATaolDOTcom@> writes:
>
>Stephen> I enjoyed the broadcast but what a pair of bankers the hosts are.
>
>Stephen> What is a senior dude FFS?
>
>Tell me what a "banker" is, and I'll tell you what a "senior dude" is.

Drat! I'm sorry I did not mean to be rude to you. I did not realise that you
were one of the hosts. Put it down to my age and being a Brit. I still stand by
my opinion about the way people speak but I apologise to you for being
personally rude.

Regards
	Stephen

Post a reply to this message

>>>>> "Stephen" == Stephen  <mcavoysATaolDOTcom@> writes:

Stephen> Or I'm just amazed that they used the term, even

I'm still a kid at heart.  And I was stumbling to insert words before the
moment passed.

I think it's because I had just seen "The Big Lebowski" on cable, where "dude"
is said about 100 times, including the catchphrase "the dude, abides".

I'm surprised you keep saying "they" when you're talking to me. :)

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<mer### [at] stonehengecom> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
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> I think it's because I had just seen "The Big Lebowski" on cable, where 
> "dude"
> is said about 100 times

I think that's a huge understatement, dude :p

great show btw!

cu!
-- 
#macro G(b,e)b+(e-b)*C/50#end#macro _(b,e,k,l)#local C=0;#while(C<50)
sphere{G(b,e)+3*z.1pigment{rgb G(k,l)}finish{ambient 1}}#local C=C+1;
#end#end _(y-x,y,x,x+y)_(y,-x-y,x+y,y)_(-x-y,-y,y,y+z)_(-y,y,y+z,x+y)
_(0x+y.5+y/2x)_(0x-y.5+y/2x)            // ZK http://www.povplace.com

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 12:33:47 -0800, mer### [at] stonehengecom (Randal L. Schwartz)
wrote:

>>>>>> "Stephen" == Stephen  <mcavoysATaolDOTcom@> writes:
>
>Stephen> Or I'm just amazed that they used the term, even
>
>I'm still a kid at heart.  

Aren't we all kids at heart deep down :) Yea verily and as nemesis pointed out
Americans doth speake thus. ;-)

>And I was stumbling to insert words before the
>moment passed.
>

Forgiven 

>I think it's because I had just seen "The Big Lebowski" on cable, where "dude"
>is said about 100 times, including the catchphrase "the dude, abides".
>
>I'm surprised you keep saying "they" when you're talking to me. :)

That is because I knew not that it was you. And yes I am a native English
speaker who sympathises with the French trying to eradicate Franglaise :)
I'm also a Radio 4 listener (BBC) and that should explain a lot :)
Again I'm sorry if I offended you I thought that it diminished David and Chris
and I'm a bit protective. I was also offended when Mr Bush was heard to greet Mr
Blair (not Prime Minister Blair, which is not what he is called) by Ho! Blair.  

Regards
	Stephen

Post a reply to this message

I always watched Leo LaPorte on TechTV years ago. Took me some getting used to
at first. Kept thinking he was stepping indoors from a California beach every
time. ;) I think he must have had a frisbee made from a laser video disc
someplace. :D Liked that show, and the others. Erica Hill doing CNN now, very
sad when James Kim and family got lost in the mountains a while ago.

This was a fun listen, so my immense thanks for doing this interview and posting
about it here (whomever did, I'm replying to the end of the web view).

The topic of physical reality (of light) was only touched upon near the end.
That could have been interesting. Leo asked something about the possibility of
doing a spectrum in a prism after David and Chris left the talk.
There's a whole subject about recreating true characteristics of light and
reflection that was only hinted at. Most of the talk concerned artistic merits
of POV, or the coding changes; obvious why that was. :)

I'm in complete agreement about the awe-inspiring abilities people have to get
both programming and art together. It fascinates me whenever I see any of it,
new or old stuff. I think it's something overlooked in other CGI related
things. You can't really miss that point about POV-Ray.

Thank you again. I've been getting farther from the goings-on here in recent
years so this was great.

Bob Hughes

Post a reply to this message

>>>>> "omniverse" == omniverse  <omn### [at] charternet> writes:

omniverse> The topic of physical reality (of light) was only touched upon near
omniverse> the end.  That could have been interesting. Leo asked something
omniverse> about the possibility of doing a spectrum in a prism after David
omniverse> and Chris left the talk.

That was me.  I was wondering if you can get chromatic aberration
with POVRay, and Leo insisted that you could (without knowing),
and I regretted not asking while Chris and David were on the podcast.

So what is the answer?  Can you make a Prism that works, breaking
white light into a rainbow?

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<mer### [at] stonehengecom> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

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Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
> So what is the answer?  Can you make a Prism that works, breaking
> white light into a rainbow?

http://www.povray.org/documentation/view/3.6.1/424/
:-)

-- 
William Tracy
afi### [at] gmailcom -- wtr### [at] calpolyedu

    [Mars was] mineral; not animal, nor vegetable, nor viral. It could 
have happened but it didn't. There was never any spontaneous generation 
out of the clays or the sulphuric hot springs; no spore falling out of 
space, no touch of a god; whatever starts life (for we do not know), it 
did not happen on Mars. Mars rolled, proof of the otherness of the 
world, of its stony vitality.
    And then, one day...
     -- Kim Stanley Robinson, _Red Mars_

Post a reply to this message

Actually, rereading that page, I think that's a picture with several 
colored light sources, not an image with working chromatic aberration. :-/

But yes, Povray supports that.

-- 
William Tracy
afi### [at] gmailcom -- wtr### [at] calpolyedu

Running "beautifully fast" on modern hardware is somewhere between "I've 
never been to jail" and "I shower daily" on the list of human 
accomplishment.
     -- phi### [at] philwelchnet, posting on Slashdot

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"William Tracy" <wtr### [at] calpolyedu> wrote in message 
news:47b2983d$1@news.povray.org...
> Actually, rereading that page, I think that's a picture with several 
> colored light sources, not an image with working chromatic aberration. :-/
>
> But yes, Povray supports that.

it's called chromatic dispersion in POV-Ray: 
http://www.povray.org/documentation/view/3.6.1/415/

Post a reply to this message

Wasn't it William Tracy who wrote:
>Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
>> So what is the answer?  Can you make a Prism that works, breaking
>> white light into a rainbow?
>
>http://www.povray.org/documentation/view/3.6.1/424/


There's two different effects, both called "dispersion" in POVRay. 
There's the one that makes the pretty patterns in the shadows of sparkly 
things (using photon mapping) and there's the one that causes the 
"chromatic aberration" problem that plagues telescope makers.

I suppose that in the real world they're both caused by the same 
fundamental physics, but in POVRay the settings for enabling the effect 
in the forward mapping of photons is separate from the settings for 
enabling the effect in the conventional tracing of rays.


I vaguely seem to remember that the documentation for DKBTrace claimed 
that chromatic aberration was "a bug in the real world" and was 
therefore not then supported.

-- 
Mike Williams
Gentleman of Leisure

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"Zeger Knaepen" <zeg### [at] povplacecom> wrote in message 
news:47b29ef9$1@news.povray.org...
>
> it's called chromatic dispersion in POV-Ray: 
> http://www.povray.org/documentation/view/3.6.1/415/


Glad to see you guys answering this time of night-- well, almost 2 a.m. 
local time for me-- maybe you're someplace with daylight...? LOL

That last paragraph of 2.6.1.5 Dispersion, before the section about 
'caustics', will tell you this isn't about light being spread into actual 
wavelengths. You use 'photons' to get the light transported onto other 
surfaces or through air, otherwise this is only internal to transparent 
objects that are also refractive (ior 1 for the refraction is ok).

One of my favorite things about POV-Ray, such light characteristics. Great 
that it was thought of before the talk ended completely.

Bob

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"Mike Williams" <nos### [at] econymdemoncouk> wrote in message 
news:3KI### [at] econymdemoncouk...
>
> I vaguely seem to remember that the documentation for DKBTrace claimed 
> that chromatic aberration was "a bug in the real world" and was therefore 
> not then supported.


Wow, that's thinking back a few years before I first used POV-Ray. :^D

Trying to remember if a mirror, or any opaque reflective object, can also do 
this when the light shines onto something next to it (ior added, of course). 
I haven't been doing much with POV past couple years far as creative renders 
go. I'd probably know for certain if I had been doing more things with it.

Bob

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Mike Williams wrote:
> Wasn't it William Tracy who wrote:
> I vaguely seem to remember that the documentation for DKBTrace claimed 
> that chromatic aberration was "a bug in the real world" and was 
> therefore not then supported.
> 

That's a cute comment but I don't recall saying it in the documentation 
and a quick scan of the documentation for DKBTrace seems to show no 
trace of it.

David Buck

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>>>>> "Bob" == Bob Hughes <omn### [at] charternet> writes:

Bob> One of my favorite things about POV-Ray, such light characteristics. Great
Bob> that it was thought of before the talk ended completely.

So Leo was right!  Cool.  I kept thinking "That's hard to program so
it probably doesn't do it".  :)  Darn programmer in me.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<mer### [at] stonehengecom> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

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Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>> "Bob" == Bob Hughes <omn### [at] charternet> writes:
> 
> Bob> One of my favorite things about POV-Ray, such light characteristics. Great
> Bob> that it was thought of before the talk ended completely.
> 
> So Leo was right!  Cool.  I kept thinking "That's hard to program so
> it probably doesn't do it".  :)  Darn programmer in me.
> 

It wasn't in DKBTrace and early versions of POVRay.  Since raytracing 
traces light rays backwards from the eye towards the world, when the 
light goes through a prism, you'd have to split one ray into lots of 
other rays with different colors.  This seems to be what the POVRay 
dispersion feature does.

The other complication (which POVRay tries to fake) is that the rays in 
a raytracer only track three colors - red, green and blue.  In the real 
world, light is (generally) a blend of lots of different wavelengths. 
To get truly accurate results, we should model the light as a bundle of 
wavelengths.  Each surface will reflect some wavelengths, absorb others, 
and scatter others.  When we calculate the final wavelength bundle for a 
pixel, we can then map it onto RGB.  POVRay cheats by only assuming that 
the light only contains 3 wavelengths.

David Buck

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Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
> So Leo was right!  Cool.  I kept thinking "That's hard to program so
> it probably doesn't do it".  :)  Darn programmer in me.

I find it interesting that Povray does all sorts of conceptually 
difficult things (dispersion, volumetric media) but doesn't do many 
conceptually simple things (luminous bloom comes to mind).

(Actually, my impression is that there are some architectural 
difficulties involved with adding luminous bloom, but Warp and others 
hope to resolve that in Povray 4.)

-- 
William Tracy
afi### [at] gmailcom -- wtr### [at] calpolyedu

    "'The Force'?"
    "The Force is an energy field--"
    "Energy? But energy is force times distance."
    "And 'power of the force' would be distance times the derivative 
with respect to time."
     -- Darths and Droids

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William Tracy <wtr### [at] calpolyedu> wrote:
> (Actually, my impression is that there are some architectural
> difficulties involved with adding luminous bloom, but Warp and others
> hope to resolve that in Povray 4.)

"luminous bloom" and glare are caustics happening inside the eye and other
camera obscura devices.  Unless povray simulates what happens inside, it won't
happen and is probably better left as a postprocess effect.

But there are SDL scripts for both "luminous bloom" and glare in povray.  The
former as a postprocess using povray itself and the latter using povray disc
objects...

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David Buck <dav### [at] simberoncom> wrote:
> The FLOSS Weekly episode on POV-Ray has now been posted.
>
>  http://twit.tv/floss24
>
> Enjoy.
>
> David Buck

Listening to floss-24 here. " ... programmer or artist ..." ?

We hear admission for lack of creativity or artistic talent, different words but
much the same.

I got something that can help.

I wrote about it earlier. People are mainly right or left brained people,
logical or creative. What that means is that one hemisphere of the brain is
used more than the other side.

Tuning is possible to get that other side up to speed. But I know you guys are
not interested. Or are you?

aQ

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Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>> "Stephen" == Stephen  <mcavoysATaolDOTcom@> writes:
> 
> Stephen> I enjoyed the broadcast but what a pair of bankers the hosts are.
> 
> Stephen> What is a senior dude FFS?
> 
> Tell me what a "banker" is, and I'll tell you what a "senior dude" is.
> 

I'm a banker.  I handle the vault at our branch.

-- 
...Ben Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com

(follow-ups set to o-t)

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"alphaQuad" <alp### [at] earthlinknet> wrote in message 
news:web.47b3474786589f5e73c5f880@news.povray.org...
> David Buck <dav### [at] simberoncom> wrote:
>> The FLOSS Weekly episode on POV-Ray has now been posted.
>>
>>  http://twit.tv/floss24
>>
>> Enjoy.
>>
>> David Buck
>
> Listening to floss-24 here. " ... programmer or artist ..." ?
>
> We hear admission for lack of creativity or artistic talent, different 
> words but
> much the same.
>
> I got something that can help.
>
> I wrote about it earlier. People are mainly right or left brained people,
> logical or creative. What that means is that one hemisphere of the brain 
> is
> used more than the other side.
>
> Tuning is possible to get that other side up to speed. But I know you guys 
> are
> not interested. Or are you?
>
> aQ
>

Using both sides is fun!  =;oD


-- 
-Nekar Xenos-

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