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It seems that POV-Ray 3.6.0 for Linux outputs everything to stderr and
nothing to stdout.
Is this the normal behavior on all other platforms (at least Windows and
OS-X) as well?
(There's nothing wrong with it - I'm just trying to write a
cross-platform tool that invokes POV-Ray, and I'd need to know which
stream(s) to listen to...)
Thanks!
-Sascha Ledinsky
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Sascha Ledinsky wrote:
> It seems that POV-Ray 3.6.0 for Linux outputs everything to stderr and
> nothing to stdout.
> Is this the normal behavior on all other platforms (at least Windows and
> OS-X) as well?
As the Mac as well as Windos version have GUI frontends, they don't (by
default anyway).
Thorsten
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Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
> As the Mac as well as Windos version have GUI frontends, they don't (by
> default anyway).
Ok, I'd need to launch it from a Java application - seems that I have to
check which OS it's running on first :-(
So beside the common commandline options (+H, +W, etc.) I'd use
"+I<filename>" for the linux version
and
"\RENDER <filename> \EXIT" for the vindows version.
Is this how it's designed to be?
The Mac section in the online docs says:
"You cannot control POV-Ray for Mac OS directly via command-line options."
[ http://www.povray.org/documentation/view/3.6.1/759/ ]
...now, what does that mean? Can't I start POV-Ray from an external
application (a modeler) on the Mac?!?
-Sascha Ledinsky
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Sascha Ledinsky wrote:
> Ok, I'd need to launch it from a Java application - seems that I have to
> check which OS it's running on first :-(
>
> So beside the common commandline options (+H, +W, etc.) I'd use
>
> "+I<filename>" for the linux version
>
> and
>
> "\RENDER <filename> \EXIT" for the vindows version.
>
> Is this how it's designed to be?
No, the Windows version does take all the other arguments as well, but you
need a few special options to the the Windows GUI what to do...
> The Mac section in the online docs says:
> "You cannot control POV-Ray for Mac OS directly via command-line options."
> [ http://www.povray.org/documentation/view/3.6.1/759/ ]
>
> ...now, what does that mean? Can't I start POV-Ray from an external
> application (a modeler) on the Mac?!?
You can start it, but on Macs there is no command-line, so you cannot use
that to control an application. Mac applications are controlled by more
advanced means than simple command-lines. However, on Mac OS X you can
"cheat" and compile/use the Unix command-line version.
Thorsten
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Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
> Mac applications are controlled by
> more advanced means than simple command-lines.
ROFL :-)
So, what's the "advanced" procedure to lauch application "B" (plain mac
pov) from application "A" on a macintosh?
Popup a window and tell the user that a pov-file has just been saved to
some directory and kindly ask him to use his "advanced" single-button
mouse to tell pov-ray to load and render it? ;-)
Now honestly - I can't test it on a Mac because I don't have one, so I
could use some help. Would creating an ini file work?
-Sascha
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Sascha Ledinsky wrote:
> Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
>
>> Mac applications are controlled by more advanced means than simple
>> command-lines.
>
> ROFL :-)
Only a clueless person laughs about things they do not know or understand ;-)
> So, what's the "advanced" procedure to lauch application "B" (plain mac
> pov) from application "A" on a macintosh?
If a Mac user wants to control an application, since 1990 the system and
many applications provide a very advanced "event" mechanism that - for users
- is hidden behind what is called "AppleScript". It allows far more than
anything a command-line could ever do: Interactive control of an
application, even from another system on the other side of the world (if the
user allows it). And that since 1990 and without having to be a computer
expert.
You are still laughing? - No!?! - Ohhhhhhhh.....
Now, that an obsolete technology like Java comes years later and all it can
do is command-line interaction is your problem. You might consider
developing a real Mac application or just stay away from Macs. If you just
create a PC-style Java application and hand it to Mac users, they will
ignore it anyway, but you won't understand why due to ignorance.
Until you change that, continue cleaning all those worms from your Windows
PCs and keep chasing for the latest patches on your Linux PCs. I don't need
to do either and have more time to get my work done.
Thorsten
PS: Of course on a Mac you can just use the com.apple.cocoa.foundation and
implement
<http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Cocoa/Reference/Foundation/Java/Classes/NSScriptCommand.html>
to communicate with other Mac applications.
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Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
> Sascha Ledinsky wrote:
>
>> Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
>>
>>> Mac applications are controlled by more advanced means than simple
>>> command-lines.
>>
>>
>> ROFL :-)
>
>
> Only a clueless person laughs about things they do not know or
> understand ;-)
>
>> So, what's the "advanced" procedure to lauch application "B" (plain
>> mac pov) from application "A" on a macintosh?
>
>
> If a Mac user wants to control an application, since 1990 the system and
> many applications provide a very advanced "event" mechanism that - for
> users - is hidden behind what is called "AppleScript". It allows far
> more than anything a command-line could ever do: Interactive control of
> an application, even from another system on the other side of the world
> (if the user allows it). And that since 1990 and without having to be a
> computer expert.
>
> You are still laughing? - No!?! - Ohhhhhhhh.....
>
> Now, that an obsolete technology like Java comes years later and all it
> can do is command-line interaction is your problem. You might consider
> developing a real Mac application or just stay away from Macs. If you
> just create a PC-style Java application and hand it to Mac users, they
> will ignore it anyway, but you won't understand why due to ignorance.
>
> Until you change that, continue cleaning all those worms from your
> Windows PCs and keep chasing for the latest patches on your Linux PCs. I
> don't need to do either and have more time to get my work done.
>
> Thorsten
>
> PS: Of course on a Mac you can just use the com.apple.cocoa.foundation
> and implement
>
<http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Cocoa/Reference/Foundation/Java/Classes/NSScriptCommand.html>
> to communicate with other Mac applications.
Pardon my ignorance...
Is that system of controlling other processes similar to Windows'
CreateProcess function?
--
~Mike
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Darren New wrote:
> if you want something
> similar to Windows. (With "AppleScript" being closer to "Windows
> Scripting Host", if you really want to push analogies.)
Yes, I believe that is as close as it gets...
> Basically, it's different. :-)
...but that is much closer! ;-)
Thorsten
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Sascha Ledinsky wrote:
> Now honestly - I can't test it on a Mac because I don't have one, so I
> could use some help. Would creating an ini file work?
OK, a serious answer: No, as you just cannot communicate from Java with the
Mac version efficiently. I would suggest to find a link to a Mac
command-line build, put that on your website (or have a special Mac
download) and connect to that with the standard Java means. After rendering
is done, you probably want users to view the rendered image in your
application anyway.
Thorsten
PS: While it has low priority, I am well aware that there are uses for the
"common" command-line control mechanism POV-Ray offers and if time should
ever permit to complete the high-priority features for the Mac version, a
small frontend that translates command-line control attempts to AppleEvents
interacting with the GUI version is not out of the question. But don't
count on me ever having time to implement that ;-)
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Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
> keep chasing for the latest patches on your Linux PCs.
Damn, I must be using something else, because I don't have to do that
to keep my system updated. Perhaps it's a Mac and I never noticed... ;)
--
Jaime
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All I wanted to do is to start POV-Ray behind the scenes, and pass a few
options to it.
> com.apple.cocoa.foundation
If I could get around without adding lot's of platform dependent code,
it would make things easier...
> Now, that an obsolete technology like Java...
I did not ask for your opinion about Java.
POV-Ray is a commandline/text-based application. After all, it is a
renderer, not a modeler, so theres no need for a GUI. What you call a
GUI is nothing but a built in text-editor, I really don't see the
advantage in controlling POV-Ray like a GUI application. If one can't
start it telling it to render a single scene-file without dealing with a
"GUI frontend" its a pity...
-Sascha
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> OK, a serious answer:...
That's at least an answer to my question, thanks Thorsten!
PS: Posting the serious answers _before_ the flame-war stuff would be a
bit less frustrating for those who asked the questions :-)
> PS: While it has low priority, I am well aware that there are uses for
> the "common" command-line control mechanism POV-Ray offers and if time
> should ever permit to complete the high-priority features for the Mac
> version, a small frontend that translates command-line control attempts
> to AppleEvents interacting with the GUI version is not out of the
> question. But don't count on me ever having time to implement that ;-)
I'm sure there are some POV-Ray modelers around for Mac-OS that use the
"Mac way" of invoking POV-Ray - but writing a cross-platform application
that can start POV is not an easy task then.
IMHO cross-platform compatibilty is an inportant issue, and even if Macs
are cool, POV-Ray would not be what it is if it was "just" a Mac
application...
-Sascha
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Sascha Ledinsky wrote:
> IMHO cross-platform compatibilty is an inportant issue,
Maybe for _your_ application a command-line is important, but certainly not
for the majority of Mac users of POV-Ray ;-)
Thorsten
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Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
> Maybe for _your_ application a command-line is important, but
> certainly not for the majority of Mac users of POV-Ray ;-)
Is it not a problem for the Mac users of POV-Ray that developers that want
to develop cross-platform applications for use with POV-Ray hit this wall
that might make them choose not to support Mac at all?
Rune
--
3D images and anims, include files, tutorials and more:
rune|vision: http://runevision.com
POV-Ray Ring: http://webring.povray.co.uk
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Rune wrote:
> Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
>
>>Maybe for _your_ application a command-line is important, but
>>certainly not for the majority of Mac users of POV-Ray ;-)
>
> Is it not a problem for the Mac users of POV-Ray that developers that want
> to develop cross-platform applications for use with POV-Ray hit this wall
> that might make them choose not to support Mac at all?
Not really. Try to serve Mac users a PC-style application and they will
spit it out (of their harddisk) really soon. Mac Word 6.0 is the best
example of this*, and Word 5.1a the solution.
Thorsten
* Googling for good websites outlining this subject fails due to link spam
and many other useless blog entries filling the top of searches for this topic.
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Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
> Rune wrote:
>> Is it not a problem for the Mac users of POV-Ray that developers
>> that want to develop cross-platform applications for use with
>> POV-Ray hit this wall that might make them choose not to support Mac
>> at all?
>
> Not really. Try to serve Mac users a PC-style application and they
> will spit it out (of their harddisk) really soon. Mac Word 6.0 is
> the best example of this*, and Word 5.1a the solution.
Okay, fair enough. I don't know much about it so I'll just assume you're at
least partially right...
Rune
--
3D images and anims, include files, tutorials and more:
rune|vision: http://runevision.com
POV-Ray Ring: http://webring.povray.co.uk
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