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Thought I'd start a new thread for this...
IMHO we need some catagories as a priority (if everything is added as a link
from the front page, it's going to get pretty messy pretty quickly).
I'd suggest the following as a start:
Links - for external links
Tutorials - duh...
Materials - for posting ready-made materials
Objects - for posting ready-made objects
Macros - for posting macros that do not create objects (a bit of a grey
area - for example a macro that created snow on a specified object would
belong here, even though the snow itself maybe an object)
I've set these up, but please feel free to add more or remove/modify my
additions (well, it is a wiki...)
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"Tom Melly" <pov### [at] tomandlu couk> wrote in message
news:41da9f28$1@news.povray.org...
>
> Macros - for posting macros that do not create objects (a bit of a grey
> area - for example a macro that created snow on a specified object would
> belong here, even though the snow itself maybe an object)
>
... which means of course that I'm an idiot. Ambiguous entries (is it an
object? is it a macro?) can be linked to from both the object and macro
page...
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The URL for the Wiki is http://povray.tirnalong.com
Neil
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Please also go to "User Preferences" and create a user name for yourself so
that we can see who changes what and assign suitable credit.
Neil
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I've taken the liberty of posting a short notice on
povray.news-submissions announcing the site. In the hopes of someone of
the POVray team mentioning it at the POVray site.
Please feel free to flame me.
--
Maurice
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"Neil Kolban" <kol### [at] kolbancom> wrote in message
news:41daca10$1@news.povray.org...
> The URL for the Wiki is http://povray.tirnalong.com
>
I'm very hopeful about this idea.
Can we register other url's and point them to the same IP address? e.g.
www.wikipov.org ?
Also, I'd suggest some forum for discussion on the structure and interface
of the site.
In terms of structure, my only comment at the moment is that it needs
thought. How will searches be structured? Or, to put it another way, how
will the site be structured so to make finding a relevant resource as easy
as possible?
Regarding the interface, it would be nice to go for a cleaner, more
recognisable look. Also, aren't there other editors that can make creating
articles less complex? (much as I like wiki in principle, I find the basic
wiki-style an obstacle to activity). Anyone know if the editor/article
interface they use at wikipedia is an available plugin?
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"Tom Melly" <pov### [at] tomandlucouk> wrote:
> Also, I'd suggest some forum for discussion on the structure and interface
> of the site.
>
> In terms of structure, my only comment at the moment is that it needs
> thought. How will searches be structured? Or, to put it another way, how
> will the site be structured so to make finding a relevant resource as easy
> as possible?
>
> Regarding the interface, it would be nice to go for a cleaner, more
> recognisable look. Also, aren't there other editors that can make creating
> articles less complex? (much as I like wiki in principle, I find the basic
> wiki-style an obstacle to activity). Anyone know if the editor/article
> interface they use at wikipedia is an available plugin?
I'm also concerned about starting a website without planning the
layout and interface for usefulness and efficiency. A lot of pain
can be avoided by taking some time before jumping into the
water (as POV-Ray coders know).
Also, I hope authors will remember POV-Ray supports multiple
platforms. Many tools are not available for all platforms and I'd
like to see a POV-Ray reference site focus on POV-Ray code,
not external tools unavailable to some.
Finally, the most useful advice (and the hardest to write) are
explanations as to why a particular method is used. Presenting
a piece of code with comments is fine, but background
information explaining why it is done that way and relating it
to the many other paths that could be taken is much more
useful.
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A few examples of what I'm referring to...
On the materials page it is suggested that materials be
demonstrated on some "basic shapes." But they are
provided as a Moray .MDL file. Moray is a Windows
only program.
The list of external links do not provide any information
about what information the links provide. There are a
lot of lists of links for POV-Ray sites already and they
are not very useful.
The same is true for the external tutorials. For example,
"The Online POV-Ray Tutorial" is yet another site that
has minimal useful information and also another site
that was started with good intentions. It has not been
updated since 1996:
http://library.thinkquest.org/3285/index.html?tqskip1=1
I hope I don't sound too negative with these comments.
I understand the site is just in it's baby steps at this point.
I do hope the Wiki site will prove useful, but there are
many sites out there that have failed to provide anything
beyond what is already available in the official documentation.
What I'd like to see is a site whose primary purpose is
to provide useful information, not just information.
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One of the great things about Wikis is that they can grow and change by
consensus over time. Just like a painting (or a rendering), no two people
will see the same qualities.
I spent a few hours yesterday and added all the links and some comments to
those links that I knew off. This is the low hanging fruit. Links are not
bad in themselves but need correctly organized. I tried to put the external
links in places where they would be useful.
There are always going to be different classes of users. Some will want a
snippet of POV-Ray code to complete a scene, some will want to understand
the underlying mechanics and choices. Both can be accommodated.
When we find a page or entry that we feel needs more attention or detail we
now have a couple of choices...
The simplest is to add a new text line at the bottom of the page, ideally in
italics, that suggests what we would like to see changed or added or
enhanced. The more expensive solution is to take the time and add the
content ourselves.
In my mind, Wikis work not by partitioning work and taking ownership for
100% quality output of a page, but building on each others capabilities in a
team and collaborative effort. A degree of patience and consideration is
required. If a page contains content that is not wrong but not of an
individuals style, then it is important NOT to change that page. One should
only add content or fix errors. Otherwise it degrades into (at worst case)
a battling set of revisions.
Again, I'm a newbie at POV-Ray so I could be very, very wrong but I think
I'd like to see an inclusive Wiki that covers as much territory as possible
as opposed to a vertical solution that has a more limited coverage.
Friends to all
Neil
"Renderdog" <slo### [at] hiwaaynet> wrote in message
news:web.41dbdbc08aadd1e24a904c7d0@news.povray.org...
> "Tom Melly" <pov### [at] tomandlucouk> wrote:
> > Also, I'd suggest some forum for discussion on the structure and
interface
> > of the site.
> >
> > In terms of structure, my only comment at the moment is that it needs
> > thought. How will searches be structured? Or, to put it another way, how
> > will the site be structured so to make finding a relevant resource as
easy
> > as possible?
> >
> > Regarding the interface, it would be nice to go for a cleaner, more
> > recognisable look. Also, aren't there other editors that can make
creating
> > articles less complex? (much as I like wiki in principle, I find the
basic
> > wiki-style an obstacle to activity). Anyone know if the editor/article
> > interface they use at wikipedia is an available plugin?
>
> I'm also concerned about starting a website without planning the
> layout and interface for usefulness and efficiency. A lot of pain
> can be avoided by taking some time before jumping into the
> water (as POV-Ray coders know).
>
> Also, I hope authors will remember POV-Ray supports multiple
> platforms. Many tools are not available for all platforms and I'd
> like to see a POV-Ray reference site focus on POV-Ray code,
> not external tools unavailable to some.
>
> Finally, the most useful advice (and the hardest to write) are
> explanations as to why a particular method is used. Presenting
> a piece of code with comments is fine, but background
> information explaining why it is done that way and relating it
> to the many other paths that could be taken is much more
> useful.
>
>
>
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Renderdog,
Many, many thanks for the comments. Most of the areas that you address are
from my postings. I'd like to try and add what was in my mind when I added
them ...
"Renderdog" <slo### [at] hiwaaynet> wrote in message
news:web.41dbe1bb8aadd1e24a904c7d0@news.povray.org...
> A few examples of what I'm referring to...
>
> On the materials page it is suggested that materials be
> demonstrated on some "basic shapes." But they are
> provided as a Moray .MDL file. Moray is a Windows
> only program.
I take the point 110%. This would be a good project to build the equivalent
POV-Ray .pov file. When I posted the entry, I didn't take the time to add
the .pov file to the page. And this is where Wiki becomes great. I'd
encourage you to add a comment line to the page (at the bottom, in Italics
with your name) as to what you would like to see changed or added to a page.
Then when *anyone* comes along, they can see the comment and attempt to
satisfy. Wikis work by collaboration. If I came across a page which had a
comment in it, I would ask myself, "What can I do to satisfy or progress the
comment?". This will be true even if I didn't originally author the page.
Wikis grow over time with collected knowledge.
>
> The list of external links do not provide any information
> about what information the links provide. There are a
> lot of lists of links for POV-Ray sites already and they
> are not very useful.
Adding links to existing sites is the "low hanging fruit". Adding the new
content takes time. The Wiki has been around for 2 days.
>
> The same is true for the external tutorials. For example,
> "The Online POV-Ray Tutorial" is yet another site that
> has minimal useful information and also another site
> that was started with good intentions. It has not been
> updated since 1996:
> http://library.thinkquest.org/3285/index.html?tqskip1=1
>
I am a POV-Ray newbie, I found that link quite useful and read it from cover
to cover. Maybe we need a thread in the Wiki as a path for newbiews to
follow.
> I hope I don't sound too negative with these comments.
> I understand the site is just in it's baby steps at this point.
> I do hope the Wiki site will prove useful, but there are
> many sites out there that have failed to provide anything
> beyond what is already available in the official documentation.
>
> What I'd like to see is a site whose primary purpose is
> to provide useful information, not just information.
>
>
Not negative at all. I am very keen to see the Wiki succeed and it will be
a collaborative and inclusive effort. By the nature of the Wiki that
anyone/everyone can change pages, there will never be a time when all
changes satisfy all people. I believe that the Wiki needs a push to get
started and that is why I devoted hours yesterday to scouring for content
and adding what I could. I tried to make it structured as best I could.
Looking forward to working with you my friend.
Neil
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