Is there anybody interested in collective project?
The idea is not new:

http://www.artlebedev.ru/kovodstvo2/pkp/3/main/
http://www.artlebedev.ru/kovodstvo2/pkp/1/

But in our case it could be done in POV-Ray. For
example we could make super still life. We can agree
on a template scene which could have just a table
with some default lighting (for consistency of the
final image). The table should have seamless edges.
So that its right edge should match its left edge.
And eventually it will be just one very long table :)
Then everybody who wants to participate just takes
the template scene and creates his/her own still life.
I just don't know where we could keep all that stuff :)
Any ideas about rules, deadline etc.? I appreciate any
input.

Gena.

Post a reply to this message

I like the idea, and I like the idea that the final image does not 
depend on single contributions, e.g. everybody can fully concentrate on 
his thing, without having to worry about if it will fit with the other 
scenes etc.

> But in our case it could be done in POV-Ray. For
> example we could make super still life. We can agree
> on a template scene which could have just a table
> with some default lighting (for consistency of the
> final image). The table should have seamless edges.
> So that its right edge should match its left edge.
> And eventually it will be just one very long table :)

The table is a very good idea, too, however seamless edges and a 
consistent lighting may be hard to achieve, except you use some high 
ambient settings, which IMHO does not look good (and will propably make 
radiosity renders impossible).

If you're supplying a template scene, I'd be glad to join :)

Florian
-- 
camera{look_at-y*10location<8,-3,-8>*10}#local a=0;#while(a<999)sphere{
#local _=.01*a-4.99;#local p=a*.01-5;#local c=.01*a-4.995;<sin(p*pi)*5p
*10pow(p,5)*.01>sin(c*c*c*.1)+1pigment{rgb 3}}#local a=a+1;#end
/******** http://www.torfbold.com ******** http://www.imp.org ********/

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Gena <gen### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> Is there anybody interested in collective project?
> The idea is not new:
>
> http://www.artlebedev.ru/kovodstvo2/pkp/3/main/
> http://www.artlebedev.ru/kovodstvo2/pkp/1/
>
> But in our case it could be done in POV-Ray. For
> example we could make super still life. We can agree
> on a template scene which could have just a table
> with some default lighting (for consistency of the
> final image). The table should have seamless edges.
> So that its right edge should match its left edge.
> And eventually it will be just one very long table :)
> Then everybody who wants to participate just takes
> the template scene and creates his/her own still life.
> I just don't know where we could keep all that stuff :)
> Any ideas about rules, deadline etc.? I appreciate any
> input.

> Gena.

What sort of theme did you have in mind, if any?

ADB

Post a reply to this message

> What sort of theme did you have in mind, if any?
I would not set up a specific theme, but let all participants model what 
they want to. I think it gets much more interesting like that and the 
chance of reoccuring ideas is smaller. The combining idea would be the 
table everything is placed on.

I would not set up a deadline, either, just provide the template scene, 
put the whole project somewhere it's viewed often and be patient :)

Florian
-- 
camera{look_at-y*10location<8,-3,-8>*10}#local a=0;#while(a<999)sphere{
#local _=.01*a-4.99;#local p=a*.01-5;#local c=.01*a-4.995;<sin(p*pi)*5p
*10pow(p,5)*.01>sin(c*c*c*.1)+1pigment{rgb 3}}#local a=a+1;#end
/******** http://www.torfbold.com ******** http://www.imp.org ********/

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I will participate in this project by suplying one of the "tiles".

JWV

"Gena" <gen### [at] yahoocom> wrote in message
news:417615de$1@news.povray.org...
> Is there anybody interested in collective project?
> The idea is not new:
>
> http://www.artlebedev.ru/kovodstvo2/pkp/3/main/
> http://www.artlebedev.ru/kovodstvo2/pkp/1/
>
> But in our case it could be done in POV-Ray. For
> example we could make super still life. We can agree
> on a template scene which could have just a table
> with some default lighting (for consistency of the
> final image). The table should have seamless edges.
> So that its right edge should match its left edge.
> And eventually it will be just one very long table :)
> Then everybody who wants to participate just takes
> the template scene and creates his/her own still life.
> I just don't know where we could keep all that stuff :)
> Any ideas about rules, deadline etc.? I appreciate any
> input.
>
> Gena.
>

Post a reply to this message

"Florian Brucker" <tor### [at] torfboldcom> wrote in message
news:417693d8$1@news.povray.org...
> > What sort of theme did you have in mind, if any?
> I would not set up a specific theme, but let all participants model what
> they want to. I think it gets much more interesting like that and the
> chance of reoccuring ideas is smaller. The combining idea would be the
> table everything is placed on.
>
> I would not set up a deadline, either, just provide the template scene,
> put the whole project somewhere it's viewed often and be patient :)
>
> Florian

It could be kind of fun. the hardest part would be making a table template
that looks good when all the images are lined up. what other settings would
have to be set in stone for the template? default gamma, AA depth/type,
radiosity? what about adding other lights to an individual "tile" of the
scene? Say I made a still life that had a lamp on it? would we need fade
distance and fade power such that the light wouldn't reach the edges of our
section of the table? or no other lights are allowed?

-ross

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Anthony D. Baye wrote:

> Gena <gen### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
>> Is there anybody interested in collective project?
>> The idea is not new:
>>
>> http://www.artlebedev.ru/kovodstvo2/pkp/3/main/
>> http://www.artlebedev.ru/kovodstvo2/pkp/1/
>>
>> But in our case it could be done in POV-Ray. For

Sounds interesting - are you going to make a template available somewhere?
Or a page? Will you decide which "square" goes to whom?

-- 
Stefan Viljoen
Software Support Technician
Polar Design Solutions

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I'll try to recap our preliminary discussion.

Unfortunately I don't have any spare web space.
That's why as a first step we could post images in
p.b.images newsgroup. Maybe later on somebody will
shelter the project.

Assuming that project name is 'Super Still Life'
posted images could have the following names:
ssl-1.jpg, ssl-2.jpg etc.

This weekend I'll try to prepare a template scene -
ssl-template.pov I think the only "solid" stuff in
the scene will be the table and camera position. That
will allow seamless flow from one image to another.
I'm afraid that pre-defined lights and background
will be too restrictive. More likely I'll use isowood
by Christoph Hormann for the table. If you have any
ideas for another table material please let me know.

You are free to use any lighting, HDRI, radiosity and
post-processing. The initial image must be rendered
in POV-Ray. Image size is a question for discussion.
I suggest to use 800*600 so that horizontal scroll
wouldn't take too much time :) But you should be ready
to render your scene in magazine/poster resolution in
case any Museum of Modern Arts will ask for exposition :)

There is no any particular theme. So povers are free
to use everything they consider as a Still Life. It could
comprise of fruits, vegetables, meat, fast food, any
exotic dishes from different cuisines, any kitchen
utensils, glasses, goblets etc. etc. etc. You can also
put your own table cloth on the table. Just keep table
edges open so that next image could be "connected" to
yours. Fantasy and creativity should be one of the main
"components" of the image. Because of different moral,
religious and ethic norms in different countries be
cautious with nudes, erotic and sexual scenes.

This is a free and non-commercial project. Everybody
keeps all rights on his/her image, scene. Nobody has
a copyright for the whole project/images. Availability
of source files is not required. Authors can put their
names/signatures on images, preferably as embedded
somehow to the image (e.g. free-hand writing on a
napkin etc.).

Everybody is welcomed to join the project. The number
of entries is unlimited. Just make sure that they are
really differ from each other :) When you finish your
image just take next available name for the image
(ssl-x.jpg where 'x' is a next available number) and
display it in p.b.images. Please use the following
subject for your posting:
SSL-x
where 'x' is a number of your image.

And finally there is no deadline. Let's work on it
whenever we have spare time.

Hopefully I covered everything :)

Gena.

Post a reply to this message

> Unfortunately I don't have any spare web space.
> That's why as a first step we could post images in
> p.b.images newsgroup. Maybe later on somebody will
> shelter the project.
If web space is the only problem here, I'd be happy to supply some. 
Although I think first posting the images to pbi is a good idea 
nevertheless.

> This weekend I'll try to prepare a template scene -
> ssl-template.pov I think the only "solid" stuff in
> the scene will be the table and camera position. That
> will allow seamless flow from one image to another.
> I'm afraid that pre-defined lights and background
> will be too restrictive. More likely I'll use isowood
> by Christoph Hormann for the table. If you have any
> ideas for another table material please let me know.
IMHO we have to decide which approach we want: There's the "all images 
share a table element" way or the "that looks like a long table where 
everybody put different stuff on" approach. I personally like the second 
one better, i.e. one with the same background etc. in every image. But 
I'm open to everything here :)

Florian
-- 
camera{look_at-y*10location<8,-3,-8>*10}#local a=0;#while(a<999)sphere{
#local _=.01*a-4.99;#local p=a*.01-5;#local c=.01*a-4.995;<sin(p*pi)*5p
*10pow(p,5)*.01>sin(c*c*c*.1)+1pigment{rgb 3}}#local a=a+1;#end
/******** http://www.torfbold.com ******** http://www.imp.org ********/

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How about a "Still Life Museum"? Some arrangements could each be on their
own seperate table
and there could be a long table in the center.

I'm seeing a large hall, with high stained glass windows. I have a staned
glass window in my object
collection I could contribute...  Marble floors...

I like the idea anyway, any thoughts?

ADB

Florian Brucker wrote:

> > Unfortunately I don't have any spare web space.
> > That's why as a first step we could post images in
> > p.b.images newsgroup. Maybe later on somebody will
> > shelter the project.
> If web space is the only problem here, I'd be happy to supply some.
> Although I think first posting the images to pbi is a good idea
> nevertheless.
>
> > This weekend I'll try to prepare a template scene -
> > ssl-template.pov I think the only "solid" stuff in
> > the scene will be the table and camera position. That
> > will allow seamless flow from one image to another.
> > I'm afraid that pre-defined lights and background
> > will be too restrictive. More likely I'll use isowood
> > by Christoph Hormann for the table. If you have any
> > ideas for another table material please let me know.
> IMHO we have to decide which approach we want: There's the "all images
> share a table element" way or the "that looks like a long table where
> everybody put different stuff on" approach. I personally like the second
> one better, i.e. one with the same background etc. in every image. But
> I'm open to everything here :)
>
> Florian
> --
> camera{look_at-y*10location<8,-3,-8>*10}#local a=0;#while(a<999)sphere{
> #local _=.01*a-4.99;#local p=a*.01-5;#local c=.01*a-4.995;<sin(p*pi)*5p
> *10pow(p,5)*.01>sin(c*c*c*.1)+1pigment{rgb 3}}#local a=a+1;#end
> /******** http://www.torfbold.com ******** http://www.imp.org ********/

Post a reply to this message

> How about a "Still Life Museum"? Some arrangements could each be on 
> their own seperate table
> and there could be a long table in the center.
Well, IMHO the main idea is that all objects are somehow linked 
together, i.e. are positioned on the same table (I've also seen images 
where each contribution was a wagon of a train). It's also important 
that everyone can render his contribution independant from the other 
contributions. And having the common idea it's interesting what people 
make of it.
Therefore I really like the table idea better :)

Florian
-- 
camera{look_at-y*10location<8,-3,-8>*10}#local a=0;#while(a<999)sphere{
#local _=.01*a-4.99;#local p=a*.01-5;#local c=.01*a-4.995;<sin(p*pi)*5p
*10pow(p,5)*.01>sin(c*c*c*.1)+1pigment{rgb 3}}#local a=a+1;#end
/******** http://www.torfbold.com ******** http://www.imp.org ********/

Post a reply to this message

"Florian Brucker" <tor### [at] torfboldcom> wrote in message
news:41782171@news.povray.org...
> > How about a "Still Life Museum"? Some arrangements could each be on
> > their own seperate table
> > and there could be a long table in the center.
> Well, IMHO the main idea is that all objects are somehow linked
> together, i.e. are positioned on the same table (I've also seen images
> where each contribution was a wagon of a train). It's also important
> that everyone can render his contribution independant from the other
> contributions. And having the common idea it's interesting what people
> make of it.
> Therefore I really like the table idea better :)
>
> Florian
> -- 

I like the table idea better, but i think the lighting should be constant.
either no real lights and have pure radiosity lighting or have some lights
that cause pretty short shadows so shadows don't get cut off at the table
"edges" between individual tiles. If you have scenes with different
lighting, the brightness of the table will be different in each scene.

I also think 800x600 is way to big for something that could be a very long
string of images. 400x300 maybe. 640x480 is even big if you have 20 images
side by side.

i guess you could ask for 2 versions. a 400x300 and an 800x600.

Also, as far as isowood, isn't isowood pretty time consuming?

I was even imagining instead of a table, having a conveyor belt/assembly
line kind of surface. It would offer easier tiling i think. but a table
might look nicer.

just a few not quite random thoughts...

Post a reply to this message

Florian Brucker wrote:
> If web space is the only problem here, I'd be happy to supply some. 
> Although I think first posting the images to pbi is a good idea 
> nevertheless.

That's great! I think we will need just two pages.
First one with all images connected to each other.
Image size should not be too big smth. like 320*240.
Each image will have a link to a large version 800*600.
Second page could have just image names and author
names.

> IMHO we have to decide which approach we want: There's the "all images 
> share a table element" way or the "that looks like a long table where 
> everybody put different stuff on" approach. I personally like the second 
> one better, i.e. one with the same background etc. in every image. But 
> I'm open to everything here :)

I think we should use some kind of mixture of these
two approaches :)

Gena.

Post a reply to this message

> I like the table idea better, but i think the lighting should be constant.
> either no real lights and have pure radiosity lighting or have some lights
> that cause pretty short shadows so shadows don't get cut off at the table
> "edges" between individual tiles. If you have scenes with different
> lighting, the brightness of the table will be different in each scene.

IMHO pre-defined lights and background are too restrictive
conditions. Usually different objects need different set of
lights and their positions. Also in this case you cannot use
lighting from smth. like Tiffany table lamps, candles etc. :)

> I also think 800x600 is way to big for something that could be a very long
> string of images. 400x300 maybe. 640x480 is even big if you have 20 images
> side by side.

I think homepage should have a strip of images of size 320*240.
Clicking on any image will bring high resolution image 800*600.
Usually 640*480 is not enough for detailed image.

> Also, as far as isowood, isn't isowood pretty time consuming?

Right, I should say wood textures developed by Christoph.

> I was even imagining instead of a table, having a conveyor belt/assembly
> line kind of surface. It would offer easier tiling i think. but a table
> might look nicer.

Maybe only table object should be defined and should stay
unchanged through all images(?) And authors could assign to it
any texture which they think is more appropriate to their
image. The whole strip of images will be very eclectic in this
case but I don't think it's too bad in this case :)

Gena.

Post a reply to this message

Darren New wrote:
 >

The only way I can thing of to make this look right would be to use 
small bar tables, one per entry. The bar tables could have an easel-like 
stand behind them on which a background could be painted. The background 
of the entire scene would have to be a solid pigment color so that 
radiosity would not effect it. With one big table, the camera position 
would have to be locked. With small tables, any camera position which 
did not make obvious the lack of a floor would look OK. The perspective 
would change from entry to entry, but there would be no "breaks".

  -Shay

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As I said before, I really like the idea of making it all look like it 
was rendered in one pass, e.g. no visible breaks in background etc. 
Nevertheless, I see that artistic freedom is important, too.

I think using some tricks like light_groups, spot_lights or point_lights 
with fade_distance, it should be easy to create a piece of table, which 
blends nicely with other contributions but allows custom lighting.

After all it is IMHO not the idea of such a project that everybody 
provides a full scene, but something small, which can nevertheless be 
very interesting. Therefore I don't think you'll need a change in 
background. You should put something interesting *on* the table, not 
behind it :)

Using a seperate table for each element would be a possibility, but it 
destroys much of the basic idea of the whole project (the one idea makes 
it so interesting). If you vary the camera settings, too, you get 
nothing more than some images which share an object...

Florian
-- 
camera{look_at-y*10location<8,-3,-8>*10}#local a=0;#while(a<999)sphere{
#local _=.01*a-4.99;#local p=a*.01-5;#local c=.01*a-4.995;<sin(p*pi)*5p
*10pow(p,5)*.01>sin(c*c*c*.1)+1pigment{rgb 3}}#local a=a+1;#end
/******** http://www.torfbold.com ******** http://www.imp.org ********/

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The idea with sharing sources and using them to create nice blends is 
IMHO lots of work - changing one contribution would almost always mean 
to change the contributions on each side, too (and perhaps they change 
that much that their neighbours have to be changed, too, etc.). This is 
not acceptable IMO.

Also I got the idea of creating the webpage in such a way that you get a 
random table everytime (random order of contributions). No chance to do 
that with your idea :(

Florian
-- 
camera{look_at-y*10location<8,-3,-8>*10}#local a=0;#while(a<999)sphere{
#local _=.01*a-4.99;#local p=a*.01-5;#local c=.01*a-4.995;<sin(p*pi)*5p
*10pow(p,5)*.01>sin(c*c*c*.1)+1pigment{rgb 3}}#local a=a+1;#end
/******** http://www.torfbold.com ******** http://www.imp.org ********/

Post a reply to this message

"Florian Brucker" <tor### [at] torfboldcom> wrote in message
news:417949c3@news.povray.org...
> As I said before, I really like the idea of making it all look like it
> was rendered in one pass, e.g. no visible breaks in background etc.
> Nevertheless, I see that artistic freedom is important, too.
>
> I think using some tricks like light_groups, spot_lights or point_lights
> with fade_distance, it should be easy to create a piece of table, which
> blends nicely with other contributions but allows custom lighting.
>
> After all it is IMHO not the idea of such a project that everybody
> provides a full scene, but something small, which can nevertheless be
> very interesting. Therefore I don't think you'll need a change in
> background. You should put something interesting *on* the table, not
> behind it :)
>
> Using a seperate table for each element would be a possibility, but it
> destroys much of the basic idea of the whole project (the one idea makes
> it so interesting). If you vary the camera settings, too, you get
> nothing more than some images which share an object...
>
> Florian
> -- 


Again, I agree with Florian. It seems like with spotlights or pointlights
with good fade distances, you could light your objects without significantly
effecting the borders of your table. radiosity might make that difficult
though.

Post a reply to this message

Ross wrote:
> Again, I agree with Florian. It seems like with spotlights or pointlights
> with good fade distances, you could light your objects without significantly
> effecting the borders of your table. radiosity might make that difficult
> though.

Exactly. If we allow to use radiosity we should define
absolutely all radiosity settings and light sources (if any).
Again, I think it's too restrictive. The idea to share light
sources between scenes is not acceptable because you depend too
much on your neighbour(s). Also if we allow any post-processing
and HDRI this discussion doesn't make any sense :) In this case
we all have to use the same HDRI image, the same filter etc.

So, let's make it less restrictive and make the only
pre-defined object - table and fixed camera (position
and the rest attributes). These two conditions should
provide some kind of "glue" between images.

Gena.

Post a reply to this message

Gena wrote:
> Florian Brucker wrote:
> 
>> If web space is the only problem here, I'd be happy to supply some. 
>> Although I think first posting the images to pbi is a good idea 
>> nevertheless.
> 
> 
> That's great! I think we will need just two pages.
> First one with all images connected to each other.
> Image size should not be too big smth. like 320*240.
> Each image will have a link to a large version 800*600.
> Second page could have just image names and author
> names.
> 
>> IMHO we have to decide which approach we want: There's the "all images 
>> share a table element" way or the "that looks like a long table where 
>> everybody put different stuff on" approach. I personally like the 
>> second one better, i.e. one with the same background etc. in every 
>> image. But I'm open to everything here :)
> 
> 
> I think we should use some kind of mixture of these
> two approaches :)
> 
> Gena.
> 

how about table being a segment of a circular table, with a hole in it - 
sort of a washer with legs on it :-)

camera in center or maybe offset looking across 2 - 3 segments, rotate 
visible segment on each visit to web page or make a movie
once above about 5 / 6 entries should smooth out quite nicely

stephen

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Should we postpone this project till the end of this
year because of new POVCOMP deadline?

Gena.

Post a reply to this message

Gena <gen### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> Should we postpone this project till the end of this
> year because of new POVCOMP deadline?
>
> Gena.

I wonder nobody replies to this question why.
I also want to participate in this project.
If you want to postpone it until POVCOMP finishes, I still do not matter.

Regards

miyoken

Post a reply to this message

>> Should we postpone this project till the end of this
>> year because of new POVCOMP deadline?

> I wonder nobody replies to this question why.
Real Life (TM) for my side.

So here's my answer :)

Principally, this kind of project does not need a certain timeframe, as 
contributions are individual and can be given at any time. IMHO the 
project would benefit from a start with many contributions, though, so 
it may be wise to postpone it until after POVCOMP, to give people a bit 
of a break.


Florian
-- 
camera{look_at-y*10location<8,-3,-8>*10}#local a=0;#while(a<999)sphere{
#local _=.01*a-4.99;#local p=a*.01-5;#local c=.01*a-4.995;<sin(p*pi)*5p
*10pow(p,5)*.01>sin(c*c*c*.1)+1pigment{rgb 3}}#local a=a+1;#end
/******** http://www.torfbold.com ******** http://www.imp.org ********/

Post a reply to this message

Gena <gen### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> Is there anybody interested in collective project?
> The idea is not new:
>
> But in our case it could be done in POV-Ray. For
> example we could make super still life. We can agree
> on a template scene which could have just a table
> with some default lighting (for consistency of the
> final image). The table should have seamless edges.
> So that its right edge should match its left edge.
> And eventually it will be just one very long table :)
> Then everybody who wants to participate just takes
> the template scene and creates his/her own still life.
> I just don't know where we could keep all that stuff :)
> Any ideas about rules, deadline etc.? I appreciate any
> input.
>
> Gena.

If the Table was created properly, then each "section" would have a
predefined
left/right limit and its own light source (which could be turned off if
desired.
Each user *could* provide their own light source, but could use the default
one.
a simple "cylinder/line" could separate each section (for testing), but
would
be turned off for the final renders.

Question, though: Would the final results be only a list of images that
would
be arranged on a long table? Perhaps an animation that smoothly scrolls down
the table?

I have some "remnant" objects from the October IRTC that didn't end up in
the final
image (a Guitar and Stratego game) that I could submit.

James Coons

Post a reply to this message

Gena <gen### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> Is there anybody interested in collective project?
> The idea is not new:
>
> Gena.

I have had another idea that I thought would be interesting.
(a) Start with a simple "stock" image, possibly from a POV Template.
(b) Fix the camera location and POV units of measurement.
(c) Individual users would modify the scene using some simple rules.
   (1) Only one major object can be added or changed at a time.
   (2) Changes can include textures, pigments, method of drawing
   (3) Smaller objects can be added to improve an existing object.
(d) Each subsequent "evolution" would be added to a list, with source code.
(e) Additional "evolutions" would start with the most recent source code.

Any thoughts?

James Coons

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James A Coons wrote:
> I have had another idea that I thought would be interesting...

Sounds interesting. We can add that as an option. So
if somebody will submit source files and doesn't mind
any changes in the scene than anybody else could
improve the scene or add anything else.

Gena.

Post a reply to this message

Florian Brucker wrote:

> project would benefit from a start with many contributions, though, so 
> it may be wise to postpone it until after POVCOMP, to give people a bit 
> of a break.

Agree. Let's do that after POVCOMP. Meanwhile if anybody will
come up with a good template scene let us know.

Gena.

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