Posted April 25, 2004
---------------------


For the Public Record,

It is with regret that this message serves as official notice that IMBJR's
authorization to connect to news.povray.org has been revoked. This is a
unanimously supported action on the part of the News Server Administration
and was not done without considerable deliberation on our part.

IMBJR has shown through his actions on this news server that he is unable or
unwilling to accept the AUP and he continued posting images he had
repeatedly been told that those images are unacceptable for posting on this
server.  As such he has left us with no alternative but to deny him further
access to this news server.


News Admin.
-----------

Post a reply to this message

Good.

Thank you for doing this.

Jim


"Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote in message
news:408b936b$1@news.povray.org...
> Posted April 25, 2004
> ---------------------
>
>
> For the Public Record,
>
> It is with regret that this message serves as official notice that IMBJR's
> authorization to connect to news.povray.org has been revoked. This is a
> unanimously supported action on the part of the News Server Administration
> and was not done without considerable deliberation on our part.
>
> IMBJR has shown through his actions on this news server that he is unable
or
> unwilling to accept the AUP and he continued posting images he had
> repeatedly been told that those images are unacceptable for posting on
this
> server.  As such he has left us with no alternative but to deny him
further
> access to this news server.
>
>
> News Admin.
> -----------

Post a reply to this message

tho### [at] trfde news:408b936b$1@news.povray.org

> It is with regret that this message serves as official notice that
> IMBJR's authorization to connect to news.povray.org has been revoked.
> This is a unanimously supported action on the part of the News Server
> Administration and was not done without considerable deliberation on
> our part. 

Hmm well, words like "cuba" "totalitarizm" etc came to my mind... I thought 
PovRAY was more about freedom (of creating, using software, etc), well..
 
> IMBJR has shown through his actions on this news server that he is
> unable or unwilling to accept the AUP and he continued posting images
> he had repeatedly been told that those images are unacceptable for
> posting on this server.  As such he has left us with no alternative
> but to deny him further access to this news server.

I dont recall official statement from Admin that such images are 
untollerable, can You point me to it?

-- 
http://www.raf256.com/3d/
Rafal Maj 'Raf256', home page - http://www.raf256.com/me/
Computer Graphics

Post a reply to this message

no### [at] spamhere news:cobn80hc2rl4b9l93nssqukantvksn3ed4@4ax.com

>>Hmm well, words like "cuba" "totalitarizm" etc came to my mind... I
>>thought PovRAY was more about freedom (of creating, using software,
>>etc), well.. 
> If I were you Rafal, I'd move away from this server pronto. It's
> become a gulag.

Well I think both "sides" acted quite childles, admins should officaly and 
clearly state that creators/mantainers of povray/povrays server do NOT want 
soem kinds of images posted here, and on the other hand if such demand had 
been officialy made from *owners* of server, You realy should respect it 
(and ofcourse keep creating such images but post then in places where 
owners welcome them, put on *Yours* web site, etc).

-- 
http://www.raf256.com/3d/
Rafal Maj 'Raf256', home page - http://www.raf256.com/me/
Computer Graphics

Post a reply to this message

In article <Xns94D691EFC81C0raf256com@203.29.75.35>, "Rafal 'Raf256' Maj" 
<spa### [at] raf256com> wrote:

>> It is with regret that this message serves as official notice that
>> IMBJR's authorization to connect to news.povray.org has been revoked.
>> This is a unanimously supported action on the part of the News Server
>> Administration and was not done without considerable deliberation on
>> our part.
>
> Hmm well, words like "cuba" "totalitarizm" etc came to my mind... I thought
> PovRAY was more about freedom (of creating, using software, etc), well..

You are missing the point.  Please read the message quoted below.

>> IMBJR has shown through his actions on this news server that he is
>> unable or unwilling to accept the AUP and he continued posting images
>> he had repeatedly been told that those images are unacceptable for
>> posting on this server.  As such he has left us with no alternative
>> but to deny him further access to this news server.
>
> I dont recall official statement from Admin that such images are
> untollerable, can You point me to it?

Sure:

From: "Chris Cason" <new### [at] deletethispovrayorg>
Newsgroups: povray.binaries.images,povray.general
Followup-To: povray.general
Subject: Recent postings to povray.binaries.images
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 21:16:07 +1000
Message-ID: <40714064@news.povray.org>
Xref: news.povray.org povray.binaries.images:82439 povray.general:52517

Folks,

I generally take a hands-off approach to the administration of this
news server, in the (correct) belief that it will in general self-
moderate. This has worked fairly well for more than five years. As
a rule I do not read the groups in detail and rely on community and
co-admin's feedback to let me know what's going on.

In particular please be aware that I am not about to get into writing
legalistic AUP's that get ignored (or mis-interpreted) anyhow.

I want to make it clear right now that I will *not* accept any ongoing
behaviour (particularly in the groups outside off-topic) that could
end up in either -

  (a) the web view of these groups being "net-nannied" by blocking
      sites (for all I know this has already happened),

  (b) the site downgraded or mis-classified by search engines such as
      Google due to the presence of discussions on certain topics that
      do not belong here, or

  (c) that would cause average users to want to avoid the server or
      group in question.

In case the fairly "open-ended" nature of the above statement causes
concern, sorry, but I'm not going to turn it into a formal AUP nor am
I willing to argue the definition of what an 'average user' is and what
one would or would not like to see. I am expecting common sense to
prevail here. While I understand that some involved in art like to, on
occasions, 'push the boundary' of taste, and that this is an accepted
practice on some other servers, it is not acceptable here.

Over the years this server has turned into not only a superb form of
support for POV-Ray but also a real community of people, which is a
thing I am happy to see and which I want to preserve. Those who would
choose to disturb that sense of community (whether intentionally or
not) are asked to revise their ways.

For the benefit of new users reading this message and wondering what
right I have to make these statements, or who want to get into some
sort of argument over 'free speech': please be advised that this is
a privately-owned computer system which happens to host some discussion
groups. The old saying "my server, my rules" is a blunt but nevertheless
accurate depiction of the situation. People connect to this system (and
their posts remain on its hard disk) by invitation. Please keep this in
mind.

-- Chris Cason
   News server administrator
   [followups set to povray.general]

Post a reply to this message

Rafal 'Raf256' Maj <spa### [at] raf256com> wrote:
> admins should officaly and 
> clearly state that creators/mantainers of povray/povrays server do NOT want 
> soem kinds of images posted here

  You seem to be missing the point of the AUP.

  As the AUP itself says, "these are general guidelines".

  That means they are not the absolute law everyone (including the owner
of this server) must obey, and that everything not mentioned in it is
allowed, period.

  It means that they are general guidelines which give you an idea about
what you should not do here. If someone misbehaves in such way that many
people get annoyed, each such case is handled individually.

  It also means that if you are acting in an improper way, you will be
told so by the admins, and you should stop that behaviour. The reason
why they can tell you to stop is not because some AUP says so, but because
they own the server and they don't want an individual harassing people here.
As I said above, each case is handled individually.

  If he is told many times "please stop posting this type of images" and
instead of apologizing each time the only response is arrogant flaming
and trolling, the patience of the admins is going to end sooner or later.

  He was given plenty of time to stop that behaviour and his images and
behaviour were tolerated to great extents. He was clearly warned several
times, but he wouldn't stop.

  It's not a question of having some kind of "law" which has explicitly
written every single possible case and which patches every possible
loophole you could possibly find in it. This is not reasonable and
it doesn't make any sense either.

  Read the guidelines in the AUP, follow them, and if you happen to
misbehave in a way that annoys many people you will be told so by the
admins and the simplest thing you can do is to stop behaving like that.

  If you don't agree, simply remember that this is not a public forum.
You are a *guest* here. You should behave as a guest should when inside
the property of another person.

-- 
#macro N(D)#if(D>99)cylinder{M()#local D=div(D,104);M().5,2pigment{rgb M()}}
N(D)#end#end#macro M()<mod(D,13)-6mod(div(D,13)8)-3,10>#end blob{
N(11117333955)N(4254934330)N(3900569407)N(7382340)N(3358)N(970)}//  - Warp -

Post a reply to this message

Rafal 'Raf256' Maj wrote:
> 
> tho### [at] trfde news:408b936b$1@news.povray.org
> 
> > It is with regret that this message serves as official notice that
> > IMBJR's authorization to connect to news.povray.org has been revoked.
> > This is a unanimously supported action on the part of the News Server
> > Administration and was not done without considerable deliberation on
> > our part.
> 
> Hmm well, words like "cuba" "totalitarizm" etc came to my mind... I thought
> PovRAY was more about freedom (of creating, using software, etc), well..

IMBJR has the freedom to post his work elsewhere.  The povray.org servers
are not his property and he has no rights towards them in any way whatsoever.

To compare IMBJR's exclusion from property that is not his, to the policies
and behavior of the Cuban government, is to compare *opposites*.

Regards,
John

Post a reply to this message

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

>>>>> "John" == John VanSickle <evi### [at] hotmailcom> writes:

[... IMBJR has been banned ...]

John> IMBJR has the freedom to post his work elsewhere.  The
John> povray.org servers are not his property and he has no rights
John> towards them in any way whatsoever.

John> To compare IMBJR's exclusion from property that is not his, to
John> the policies and behavior of the Cuban government, is to compare
John> *opposites*.

Precisely.  The comparison would be more apt if IMBJR's license to
use POVRay were to be revoked for generating these images.

If the POVRay license were to say that the software is not to be used
to generate offensive images, and that anyone who violated these terms
would lose their license to use POVRay, then maybe, just maybe, some
of this ranting would be justifiable -- and indeed, I'd learn a
different (lesser if necessary) raytracer, even though my skill level
with POVRay means any pornographic images I generate have the
aesthetic appeal of stick figures.

John> Regards, John

Jack.
(it's the thought that counts.)
- -- 
Jack Twilley
jmt at twilley dot org
http colon slash slash www dot twilley dot org slash tilde jmt slash
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How sad that news.povray.,org is now officially censored.

Are there any existant forums not  subject to peculiar and
religous censorship where artists may post their work without
any fear of irrational opposition?

Pan

Post a reply to this message

pan <pan### [at] syixcom> wrote:
> How sad that news.povray.,org is now officially censored.

  Now? You really think this was the first time?

> Are there any existant forums not  subject to peculiar and
> religous censorship where artists may post their work without
> any fear of irrational opposition?

  Irrational opposition? Are you trying to make a joke?

  Of course it would be useless to ask you to explain why you think
this case has been "irrational", so I won't.

-- 
plane{-x+y,-1pigment{bozo color_map{[0rgb x][1rgb x+y]}turbulence 1}}
sphere{0,2pigment{rgbt 1}interior{media{emission 1density{spherical
density_map{[0rgb 0][.5rgb<1,.5>][1rgb 1]}turbulence.9}}}scale
<1,1,3>hollow}text{ttf"timrom""Warp".1,0translate<-1,-.1,2>}//  - Warp -

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