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Many of us use Poser now, for including Poser models in our POV-Ray scenes,
so I'm wondering if anyone else here is interested in having a new forum.
If you think it would be a good idea, or if not, please voice your opinion.
I keep seeing Poser comments popping up in various groups, and I'm never
quite sure whether I should post to .general, .off-topic, .advanced-users,
etc. Not a big deal, but I would imagine that some others have scratched
their heads on this issue as well.
Additionally, as a relatively new Poser 5 user, I'm often experimenting with
things, and I'm sure others have already done the same things with Pose-Ray
(or something else) and having a place to freely discuss these sorts of
questions would seem like a good thing. IMHO, it would be nice to have this
collective POV-Ray/Poser knowledge in one nice neat collection. :-)
--
Jeremy
www.beantoad.com
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"Jeremy M. Praay" <sla### [at] hotmail com> a écrit dans le message de
news:40074c8c@news.povray.org...
> Many of us use Poser now, for including Poser models in our POV-Ray
scenes,
> so I'm wondering if anyone else here is interested in having a new forum.
> If you think it would be a good idea, or if not, please voice your
opinion.
As a long-time Poser/POV-Ray user, since 1996 and Poser 1, when all Poser
people were bald, expressionless, naked and extremely ugly (not that it has
changed much...), I'm certainly in favour of such a group. It would be
somewhat similar to the Moray one.
Of course, there are already a lot of very active Poser groups around the
Web (Renderosity started as one) and lots of tutorials but there is little
information about the use of Poser within POV-Ray. In fact, many Poser users
use the built-in renderer and photoshop the results so there's not so much
written experience about Poser models in other applications, except Bryce
perhaps. A povray.poser group could certainly help the poser/povray newbies.
Most of us had to figure out things by ourselves before.
Just for the fun, this page chronicles (in images) the introduction of Poser
people in my images in 1996.
http://www.oyonale.com/histoire/english/images1996.htm.
Before Poser, there was no way to put "realistic" characters in POV-Ray, and
this page also features a couple of images done with earlier, pre-Poser
dummies
http://www.oyonale.com/histoire/images/tarzan.jpg
http://www.oyonale.com/histoire/images/soulage.jpg
http://www.oyonale.com/histoire/images/touronde.jpg
that were found in the early Web (using Lycos as a search engine).
Ugly and stiff as they were, Poser 1 people were a great improvement over
these dummies. However, those poor Poser folks wouldn't have hair and
clothes until Poser 2 in 1997, and it wasn't until Poser 3 in 1999 that we
started to have good-looking characters and animals, with uv-maps (that
required a special POV-Ray), more or less fitting clothes and transparent
hairpieces.
G.
--
**********************
http://www.oyonale.com
**********************
- Graphic experiments
- POV-Ray and Poser computer images
- Posters
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I'd be in favour...
I had to learn the hard way too, fortunately Gilles had been there before me
and offered much useful help and advice. I'd like to pass some of that on to
others - though Gilles seems to have more time than me ;-) must be living in
another dimension! besides he manages to explain things much more completely
and accurately than me.
Mick
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> Many of us use Poser now, for including Poser models in our POV-Ray
scenes,
> so I'm wondering if anyone else here is interested in having a new forum.
> If you think it would be a good idea, or if not, please voice your
opinion.
I'd say, why not make a more common group for external tools? Poser would be
one, but PoseRay, Spatch and several other programms are tools a fellow
Pover might use as well, and making a general group for external tools
sounds like a better idea to me than to have a certain group for a single
external programm. OTOH, I don't know if a new, more general group wouldn't
be flooded with questions regarding all kinds of kinky little tools...
Just my 2 cents. I, for one, use only Poser 3 (don't have the money for a
more recent edition), so I'm not in dire need of an extra group. Besides,
once some certain standard issues have been figured out (it's more or less
the conversion, isn't it?), I guess the group would get pretty quiet.
Working with Poser and making use of the objects... I guess that's covered
pretty good by other sites like Renderosity etc.
Regards,
Tim
--
"Tim Nikias v2.0"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>
Email: tim.nikias (@) nolights.de
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Mick Hazelgrove wrote:
> I'd be in favour...
Me too. I'm all for more open discussion about Poser. I guess I'm not
as particular as many are about what gets discussed where, but if a
separate forum would foster more discussion of using Poser with POV,
both technically and content-wise, great.
>
> I had to learn the hard way too, fortunately Gilles had been there before me
> and offered much useful help and advice.
And not just technically. His work leads by example.
I'd like to pass some of that on to
> others - though Gilles seems to have more time than me ;-) must be living in
> another dimension! besides he manages to explain things much more completely
> and accurately than me.
What you said. I can only imagine that if you actually meet the guy in
person, his every action must be at double speed. And he writes clearer
English than most English speakers.
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> I'd say, why not make a more common group for external tools? Poser would be
> one, but PoseRay, Spatch and several other programms are tools a fellow
> Pover might use as well, and making a general group for external tools
> sounds like a better idea to me than to have a certain group for a single
> external programm.
I like this idea, also. I am slowly collecting, thanks to references
from other POVRay users, quite a few ancillary programs that I use to
create POVRay files (lately, for example, I've been playing with KnotPlot:
http://www.cs.ubc.ca/nest/imager/contributions/scharein/KnotPlot.html
thanks to Mael -- see p.b.images) and perhaps a group for discussing
tips, problems, new-found resources as they relate to POVRay might be
helpful.
On the other hand, though I don't have POSER, it seems as though enough
people do, to make it worthwhile to have a POSER-specific group,
especially since there are apparently some rather complicated issues
regarding Poser/Povray interractions.
(My 2 cents, or 0.0162 Euros, or something like that.)
Dave Matthews
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"Tim Nikias v2.0" <tim.nikias (@) nolights.de> a écrit dans le message de
news:400820a0$1@news.povray.org...
> OTOH, I don't know if a new, more general group wouldn't
> be flooded with questions regarding all kinds of kinky little tools...
That's a good idea. It could be a povray.utilities group since there's
already a povray.binaries.utilities. Or povray.other-applications? It needs
a catchy name so that newbies don't miss it (not that it will work of
course...)
That would allow discussions about all the other stuff like Wings, uvmapper
and al. which are presently scattered everywhere, including off-topic.
What do other people think?
G.
--
**********************
http://www.oyonale.com
**********************
- Graphic experiments
- POV-Ray and Poser computer images
- Posters
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Gilles Tran wrote:
> That would allow discussions about all the other stuff like Wings, uvmapper
> and al. which are presently scattered everywhere, including off-topic.
> What do other people think?
>
Works for me!
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Tim Nikias v2.0 wrote:
>
> I'd say, why not make a more common group for external tools? Poser would be
> one, but PoseRay, Spatch and several other programms are tools a fellow
> Pover might use as well, and making a general group for external tools
> sounds like a better idea to me than to have a certain group for a single
> external programm. OTOH, I don't know if a new, more general group wouldn't
> be flooded with questions regarding all kinds of kinky little tools...
> [...]
I think a common group for all 3rd party tools would be a good idea
(povray.tools or povray.utilities). This way it would be easier to
adapt to tools becoming more popular and others less.
Having a quick look at the postings in p.general, p.newusers and
p.advanced-users there would be at least 5% of the postings suitable for
such a new group.
A rule to add a prefix like [poser] to the subject of new threads would
make it possible to set preferences in the newsreader.
Christoph
--
POV-Ray tutorials, include files, Sim-POV,
HCR-Edit and more: http://www.tu-bs.de/~y0013390/
Last updated 11 Jan. 2004 _____./\/^>_*_<^\/\.______
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"Christoph Hormann" <chr### [at] gmxde> a écrit dans le message de
news:5pp### [at] tritonimagicode...
> I think a common group for all 3rd party tools would be a good idea
> (povray.tools or povray.utilities). This way it would be easier to
> adapt to tools becoming more popular and others less.
povray.tools + the prefix gets my vote.
There's a lot of intersection between these tools (Poser + Poseray for
instance) so keeping them all at the same place is a good idea.
G.
--
**********************
http://www.oyonale.com
**********************
- Graphic experiments
- POV-Ray and Poser computer images
- Posters
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Jeremy M. Praay wrote:
>Many of us use Poser now, for including Poser models in our POV-Ray scenes,
>so I'm wondering if anyone else here is interested in having a new forum.
>If you think it would be a good idea, or if not, please voice your opinion.
As Poser is the ONLY app of its kind out there I think this is an excellent
idea. Love it or hate it, if you need people in your images, & don't have
either the skill or time to create from scratch in another app, then you
use Poser.
While there are many Poser sites out there already, I find the er...
proprietary... atmosphere of most of them keeps me from ever participating.
Most of them are not about exchanging information, but trying to sell you
someone's mediocre props.
A forum here, with the usual POV atmosphere would be great!
RG
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"Gilles Tran" <tra### [at] inapginrafr> wrote in message
news:4007e6c5@news.povray.org...
>but there is little
> information about the use of Poser within POV-Ray.
A Poseray forum, and a Wings3d forum too, to boot! :)
~Steve~
> G.
>
> --
>
> **********************
> http://www.oyonale.com
> **********************
> - Graphic experiments
> - POV-Ray and Poser computer images
> - Posters
>
>
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"Christoph Hormann" <chr### [at] gmxde> wrote in message
news:5pp### [at] tritonimagicode...
> A rule to add a prefix like [poser] to the subject of new threads
would
> make it possible to set preferences in the newsreader.
Bingo!
~Steve~
>
> Christoph
>
> --
> POV-Ray tutorials, include files, Sim-POV,
> HCR-Edit and more: http://www.tu-bs.de/~y0013390/
> Last updated 11 Jan. 2004 _____./\/^>_*_<^\/\.______
>
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"St." <dot### [at] dotcom> a écrit dans le message de
news:40087ada@news.povray.org...
>
> A Poseray forum, and a Wings3d forum too, to boot! :)
Of course, the risk is that a few years from now, we may start asking for
povray.politics, povray.used-cars and povray.relationships ;)
G.
--
**********************
http://www.oyonale.com
**********************
- Graphic experiments
- POV-Ray and Poser computer images
- Posters
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Gilles Tran wrote:
>
> "Christoph Hormann" <chr### [at] gmxde> a écrit dans le message de
> news:5pp### [at] tritonimagicode...
>
> > I think a common group for all 3rd party tools would be a good idea
> > (povray.tools or povray.utilities). This way it would be easier to
> > adapt to tools becoming more popular and others less.
>
> povray.tools + the prefix gets my vote.
>
> There's a lot of intersection between these tools (Poser + Poseray for
> instance) so keeping them all at the same place is a good idea.
From a consistent hierarchy point of view I would think that povray.text.utilities
would be a better fit. I have often thought it inconsistent that we had the
povray.utilities.binaries group without the .text group for related discussions.
--
Ken Tyler
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Ken wrote:
>
> Gilles Tran wrote:
>
>>"Christoph Hormann" <chr### [at] gmxde> a écrit dans le message de
>>news:5pp### [at] tritonimagicode...
>>
>>
>>>I think a common group for all 3rd party tools would be a good idea
>>>(povray.tools or povray.utilities). This way it would be easier to
>>>adapt to tools becoming more popular and others less.
>>
>>povray.tools + the prefix gets my vote.
>>
>>There's a lot of intersection between these tools (Poser + Poseray for
>>instance) so keeping them all at the same place is a good idea.
>
>
> From a consistent hierarchy point of view I would think that povray.text.utilities
> would be a better fit. I have often thought it inconsistent that we had the
> povray.utilities.binaries group without the .text group for related discussions.
>
Is that what it's supposed to mean? I never did understand the
text/binaries designation.
And what are p.b.tutorials and p.t.tutorials intended to be used for?
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Wasn't it gonzo who wrote:
>As Poser is the ONLY app of its kind out there I think this is an excellent
>idea.
But it may not be the only app of its kind for long. DAZ Studio is
currently in pre-beta testing. I believe that DAZ decided to write their
own application because they can't use Poser-5 due to the restrictive
nature of its user licence.
DAZ Studio may possibly find greater acceptance within the POV community
because the full-beta version will be free to everyone. The current
version is free to people who've paid to become members of the DAZ
Platinum Club.
--
Mike Williams
Gentleman of Leisure
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"Gilles Tran" <gitran_nospam_@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:40088872@news.povray.org...
> "St." <dot### [at] dotcom> a écrit dans le message de
> news:40087ada@news.povray.org...
> >
> > A Poseray forum, and a Wings3d forum too, to boot! :)
>
> Of course, the risk is that a few years from now, we may start
asking for
> povray.politics, povray.used-cars and povray.relationships ;)
Heh, yes indeed, true. ;) I think Tim's idea is the right way to
go.
~Steve~
>
> G.
>
>
> --
> **********************
> http://www.oyonale.com
> **********************
> - Graphic experiments
> - POV-Ray and Poser computer images
> - Posters
>
>
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Great idea.
Mick
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"Ken" <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote in message
news:4008A67A.C2FFEF8C@pacbell.net...
>
>
> Gilles Tran wrote:
> >
> > "Christoph Hormann" <chr### [at] gmxde> a écrit dans le message de
> > news:5pp### [at] tritonimagicode...
> >
> > > I think a common group for all 3rd party tools would be a good idea
> > > (povray.tools or povray.utilities). This way it would be easier to
> > > adapt to tools becoming more popular and others less.
> >
> > povray.tools + the prefix gets my vote.
> >
> > There's a lot of intersection between these tools (Poser + Poseray for
> > instance) so keeping them all at the same place is a good idea.
>
> From a consistent hierarchy point of view I would think that
povray.text.utilities
> would be a better fit. I have often thought it inconsistent that we had
the
> povray.utilities.binaries group without the .text group for related
discussions.
>
traditionally, that would be
povray.binaries.utilities.d
or
povray.binaries.utilities.discuss
not povrray.text as the 'text' refers to the type of content posted
further clarified by the last name section (i.e., scene-files)
text content in re third party utilities (reviews, manual explications,
howtos)
would probably belong in
povray.text.utilities.reviews
povray.text.utilities.howtos
although there is some sense of redundancy here
the second level name section has always been meant to be used so
that readers could quickly determine whether the group could comprise
binaries or not
(absent 'binaries' the assumption is that content would be
textual (( ! html) ) )
see usent history, etc.
except for binaries groups (which relates to transit and storage
issues) the general content rule has always turned out to be that user
custom and usage rules except when the server owner decides otherwise
Pan
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"Tim Nikias v2.0" <tim.nikias (@) nolights.de> wrote in message
news:400820a0$1@news.povray.org...
> I'd say, why not make a more common group for external tools? Poser would
be
> one, but PoseRay, Spatch and several other programms are tools a fellow
> Pover might use as well, and making a general group for external tools
> sounds like a better idea to me than to have a certain group for a single
> external programm. OTOH, I don't know if a new, more general group
wouldn't
> be flooded with questions regarding all kinds of kinky little tools...
That works for me. I think Christoph's idea of putting [poser] or [spatch]
in the subject header also makes a lot of sense.
--
Jeremy
www.beantoad.com
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"Mike Williams" <nos### [at] econymdemoncouk> wrote in message
news:zyH### [at] econymdemoncouk...
> But it may not be the only app of its kind for long. DAZ Studio is
> currently in pre-beta testing. I believe that DAZ decided to write their
> own application because they can't use Poser-5 due to the restrictive
> nature of its user licence.
>
> DAZ Studio may possibly find greater acceptance within the POV community
> because the full-beta version will be free to everyone. The current
> version is free to people who've paid to become members of the DAZ
> Platinum Club.
>
I thought about that as well, but I wanted someone else to actually suggest
the "and other 3rd party tools and utilities" aspect. It sounds like that's
the direction that we're going.
--
Jeremy
www.beantoad.com
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"Ken" <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote in message news:4008A67A.C2FFEF8C@pacbell.net...
>
>
> Gilles Tran wrote:
> >
> > "Christoph Hormann" <chr### [at] gmxde> a écrit dans le message de
> > news:5pp### [at] tritonimagicode...
> >
> > > I think a common group for all 3rd party tools would be a good idea
> > > (povray.tools or povray.utilities). This way it would be easier to
> > > adapt to tools becoming more popular and others less.
> >
> > povray.tools + the prefix gets my vote.
> >
> > There's a lot of intersection between these tools (Poser + Poseray for
> > instance) so keeping them all at the same place is a good idea.
>
> From a consistent hierarchy point of view I would think that povray.text.utilities
> would be a better fit. I have often thought it inconsistent that we had the
> povray.utilities.binaries group without the .text group for related discussions.
If you feel moving around, deleting or renaming groups is a good idea, I'll support
that and add that now is the time to decide on what to do. I have to move all the
news groups to the new server so that would be an ideal opportunity. It's going to
happen in the next two or three days ... so you don't have long ;)
-- Chris
BTW I think a poser group would be a good idea.
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"Chris Cason" <new### [at] deletethispovrayorg> wrote in message
news:400af77a@news.povray.org...
>
<Hack!!>
I like the idea of a povray.tools then adding the specific program name in
the subject line. Far too many modeling programs to give any one of them a
separate group.
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"Chris Cason" <new### [at] deletethispovrayorg> a écrit dans le message de
news:400af77a@news.povray.org...
> If you feel moving around, deleting or renaming groups is a good idea,
I'll support
> that and add that now is the time to decide on what to do. I have to move
all the
> news groups to the new server so that would be an ideal opportunity. It's
going to
> happen in the next two or three days ... so you don't have long ;)
I don't know how heretic it is, but I'd be in favor of putting "binaries" at
the end (it's already the case for international.binaries) for all the
groups that have it on second level, and dropping "text" entirely.
povray.images.binaries
povray.animations
povray.animations.binaries
povray.scene-files
povray.scene-files.binaries
povray.tools
povray.tools.binaries (instead of binaries.utilities)
When I think of it, I suspect that the "binaries" term is not exactly clear
for users without a tech background. Wouldn't be "files" (binaries or not in
fact) preferable now (Web forums like the Yahoo groups use "files" for file
storage groups)? Likewise, the "text" term could be replaced by "discussion"
if necessary.
G.
--
**********************
http://www.oyonale.com
**********************
- Graphic experiments
- POV-Ray and Poser computer images
- Posters
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Gilles Tran wrote:
>
> I don't know how heretic it is, but I'd be in favor of putting "binaries" at
> the end (it's already the case for international.binaries) for all the
> groups that have it on second level, and dropping "text" entirely.
>
> [...]
The .binaries first is common in usenet (alt.binaries.* etc.) so it
would be consequent IMO to maintain it. The other argument is that
people might treat the binaries groups in general differently (like
reading them with a different newsreader, only downloading them on
demand and not in advance) and therefore would appreciate the
distinction on top level.
I agree that the .text groups do not make that much sense.
povray.scene-files
povray.binaries.scene-files
povray.tools
povray.binaries.tools (instead of binaries.utilities)
povray.tutorials (instead of text.tutorials)
povray.binaries.tutorials
Of course the non-binary groups would be prone to people falsely posting
binaries there (like in povray.animations).
And note that renaming large old groups would result in quite some work
or everyone who keeps the postings (you either have to download
everything again or replace all group names in the files).
Christoph
--
POV-Ray tutorials, include files, Sim-POV,
HCR-Edit and more: http://www.tu-bs.de/~y0013390/
Last updated 11 Jan. 2004 _____./\/^>_*_<^\/\.______
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Christoph Hormann wrote:
>
> I agree that the .text groups do not make that much sense.
>
For me the (faulty) implication was always that they were for posts with
attachments that were in text format instead of bitmap or compiled
modules or other.
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"Jim Charter" <jrc### [at] msncom> wrote in message
news:400bf267$1@news.povray.org...
> Christoph Hormann wrote:
>
>
> >
> > I agree that the .text groups do not make that much sense.
> >
>
> For me the (faulty) implication was always that they were for posts with
> attachments that were in text format instead of bitmap or compiled
> modules or other.
That was my impression as well.
--
Jeremy
www.beantoad.com
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