Optimized for the P4, even.

Post a reply to this message

Or at least fix adc_bailout, so that high max_trace_levels don't
exponentially increase render time

"Michael Goldshteyn" <mgo### [at] n-o-s-p-a-m-earthlinknet> wrote in
message news:3ee740db$1@news.povray.org...
> Optimized for the P4, even.
>
>

Post a reply to this message

Michael Goldshteyn wrote:
> Optimized for the P4, even.

Sources with HDRI support are available at Mael's site, feel free to
download and compile it with expected optimizations. If you are patient you
can receive MegaPOV with HDRI support near soon thought I do not know
optimization flags of binaries dedicated to your favourite destination
platform. AFAIK 3.6 release will never happen.

ABX

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In article <3ee7412a$1@news.povray.org> , "Michael Goldshteyn" 
<mgo### [at] n-o-s-p-a-m-earthlinknet> wrote:

> Or at least fix adc_bailout, so that high max_trace_levels don't
> exponentially increase render time

Who said bugs won't get fixed?

    Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

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"Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote in message
news:3ee74bd7$1@news.povray.org...
> In article <3ee7412a$1@news.povray.org> , "Michael Goldshteyn"
> <mgo### [at] n-o-s-p-a-m-earthlinknet> wrote:
>
> > Or at least fix adc_bailout, so that high max_trace_levels don't
> > exponentially increase render time
>
> Who said bugs won't get fixed?
>
>     Thorsten

OK, if not if, then when?

Post a reply to this message

In article <3ee74fcb$1@news.povray.org> , "Michael Goldshteyn" 
<mgo### [at] n-o-s-p-a-m-earthlinknet> wrote:

> OK, if not if, then when?

The next bugfix release is 3.51.  The POV-Team never did and does not commit
to any dates, but this year for sure.

    Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich
e-mail: mac### [at] povrayorg

I am a member of the POV-Ray Team.
Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

Post a reply to this message

Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
> In article <3ee74fcb$1@news.povray.org> , "Michael Goldshteyn"
> <mgo### [at] n-o-s-p-a-m-earthlinknet> wrote:
>
>> OK, if not if, then when?
>
> The next bugfix release is 3.51.  The POV-Team never did and does not
> commit to any dates, but this year for sure.

So why not roll up a couple of the patches in while your at it , if for no
other reason than to keep the official release relevant.

-- 
Rick

Kitty5 NewMedia http://Kitty5.com
POV-Ray News & Resources http://Povray.co.uk
TEL : +44 (01270) 501101 - FAX : +44 (01270) 251105 - ICQ : 15776037

PGP Public Key
http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x231E1CEA

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"Rick [Kitty5]" <spa### [at] kitty5com> wrote in
news:3ee7763b$1@news.povray.org: 

> 
> So why not roll up a couple of the patches in while your at it , if
> for no other reason than to keep the official release relevant.
> 

I am guessing because:

  1) It would no longer be a bugfix release

  2) They would need to support patches they did not write or
     rewrite them.

  3) It would need a beta period.

  4) It would just further delay 4.0

  5) The patches are already available elsewhere

  6) They don't want to ;)

Post a reply to this message

In article <3ee7763b$1@news.povray.org> , "Rick [Kitty5]" 
<spa### [at] kitty5com> wrote:

> So why not roll up a couple of the patches in while your at it , if for no

The POV-Team is not Micro$oft and does not combine a ton of half-finished
code into something then called a "release" instead of properly calling it
an alpha test version.

> other reason than to keep the official release relevant.

I think you seriously lost track of reality by only reading these newsgroups
frequented by several very advanced users.  While there are a few dozen
users who play with some of the features a few unofficial versions provide,
there are tens of thousands of users who use the official version of POV-Ray
for their work because it provides a stable and reliable environment with
finished features that have been well-tested.

    Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

Post a reply to this message

In article <Xns### [at] 204213191226> , Tom Galvin 
<tom### [at] imporg>  wrote:

>   1) It would no longer be a bugfix release

Any stable release of any version that adds big chunks of code would take
several month.

>   2) They would need to support patches they did not write or
>      rewrite them.

Rewrite. No offense to those who work on MegaPOV or the other patches, but
they indeed all suffer from exactly the same problems the patches that the
POV-Team had to integrate into 3.5.  The current patches hardly get finished
or bugfixed very well.  Don't expected anybody in the POV-Team is willing to
repeat the same mistake again by reusing code from patches that don't work
and then take years to get fixed.

>   3) It would need a beta period.

It sure would.

>   4) It would just further delay 4.0

No, it would kill POV-Ray.  The time wasted to rewrite and fix logic of new
patches would do damage beyond repair to thug motivation of POV-Team
members.  The POV-Team is **not** the throw-some-half-baked-patch-and-get-
them-to-fix-it-team.  Programming is fun, debugging is hard work.  And doing
it all day for a living does not imply anybody wants to do it in all their
free time.  In fact, that is the main reason why so few patches ever reach a
true release quality state.

>   5) The patches are already available elsewhere

Indeed.

>   6) They don't want to ;)

No, because there is no need to.  The need of a very few should never be
considered as major goal in any software project.  Otherwise you end up with
bloated, buggy software just like you use it every day and wish at least the
0.1% of the features you need daily (which happen to be 0.001% of the
features actually in the program) would work.


    Thorsten


____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

Post a reply to this message

Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
  While there are a few dozen
> users who play with some of the features a few unofficial versions provide,
> there are tens of thousands of users who use the official version of POV-Ray
> for their work because it provides a stable and reliable environment with
> finished features that have been well-tested.
> 
Just out of curiosity, is there really tens of thousands users of POV-Ray?

Post a reply to this message

Vahur Krouverk wrote:
>Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
>  While there are a few dozen
>> users who play with some of the features a few unofficial versions provide,
>> there are tens of thousands of users who use the official version of POV-Ray
>> for their work because it provides a stable and reliable environment with
>> finished features that have been well-tested.
>>
>Just out of curiosity, is there really tens of thousands users of POV-Ray?

Well, there are tens of thousands of downloads of POV-Ray every month. Not
counting mirrors, computer magazine distributions, distribution with 3rd
party software and so on. So if only a few percent of those who download
POV-Ray actually use it...

    Thorsten

Post a reply to this message

"Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote in
news:3ee788fe@news.povray.org: 


> 
>>   4) It would just further delay 4.0
> 
> No, it would kill POV-Ray.  

No offense Thorsten, but I don't think you could kill POV-Ray now, even if 
you wanted to.  But I understand what you meant.

Post a reply to this message

ABX,

That's great. I'm looking forward to the MegaPOV with HDRI support!
That should work fine. With 3.1 people who wanted the experimental or
advanced features migrated to MegaPOV, and all went well. I do think
that a consolidation of patches is needed, and will be appreciated ;-)

Harolddd

"Włodzimierz ABX Skiba" <abx### [at] abxartpl> wrote in message
news:web.3ee7436d516e68b8465fc1770@news.povray.org...
> Michael Goldshteyn wrote:
> > Optimized for the P4, even.
>
> Sources with HDRI support are available at Mael's site, feel free to
> download and compile it with expected optimizations. If you are patient
you
> can receive MegaPOV with HDRI support near soon thought I do not know
> optimization flags of binaries dedicated to your favourite destination
> platform. AFAIK 3.6 release will never happen.
>
> ABX
>
>
>
>

Post a reply to this message

On Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:50:37 EDT, "Thorsten" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> Well, there are tens of thousands of downloads of POV-Ray every month.

What is the number of registered users in 'community' section of website ?

ABX

Post a reply to this message

In article <0h5gevcdebtb15ovrhembitf448b2pr8fa@4ax.com> , ABX 
<abx### [at] abxartpl>  wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:50:37 EDT, "Thorsten" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
>> Well, there are tens of thousands of downloads of POV-Ray every month.
>
> What is the number of registered users in 'community' section of website ?

There are 4356 distinct names in the web news view.  And there are 1525
users registered in the community section.  Further, there are over 15000
(complete) downloads of POV-Ray 3.5 from povray.org alone, every month.

    Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

Post a reply to this message

Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
> I think you seriously lost track of reality by only reading these
> newsgroups frequented by several very advanced users.  While there
> are a few dozen users who play with some of the features a few
> unofficial versions provide, there are tens of thousands of users who
> use the official version of POV-Ray....

Would be interesting to see the download statistics comparing pov3.1g to its
MegaPOV counterpart. But as you dont have these statistics what assumption
is the above based on?

-- 
Rick

Kitty5 NewMedia http://Kitty5.com
POV-Ray News & Resources http://Povray.co.uk
TEL : +44 (01270) 501101 - FAX : +44 (01270) 251105 - ICQ : 15776037

PGP Public Key
http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x231E1CEA

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On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 10:34:44 +0100, "Rick [Kitty5]" <spa### [at] kitty5com> wrote:
> you dont have these statistics

The downloadable url of WinMegaPOV 07 at Nathan's site is
ftp://ftp.povray.org/pub/povray/Unofficial/MegaPOV/winmegapov07.zip

ABX

Post a reply to this message

In article <ktigevorhv4087km1059lihqtpjd4avpa0@4ax.com> , ABX 
<abx### [at] abxartpl>  wrote:

> The downloadable url of WinMegaPOV 07 at Nathan's site is
> ftp://ftp.povray.org/pub/povray/Unofficial/MegaPOV/winmegapov07.zip

Which had 579 hits (not complete downloads) in July 2002.  I don't have
access to older stats, Chris Cason may have older stats.

    Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 12:46:01 +0200, "Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde>
wrote:
> > The downloadable url of WinMegaPOV 07 at Nathan's site is
> > ftp://ftp.povray.org/pub/povray/Unofficial/MegaPOV/winmegapov07.zip
>
> Which had 579 hits (not complete downloads) in July 2002.  I don't have
> access to older stats, Chris Cason may have older stats.

Yes, beta-test time of 3.5 is not comparable - probably many persons considered
3.5 as same kind of 'replacement' for MegaPOV (port of MegaPOV features to
official distribution).

ABX

Post a reply to this message

"ABX" <abx### [at] abxartpl> a écrit dans le message de news:
3pmgev4i1lb7soujdimabs58m89p081prl@4ax.com...

> Yes, beta-test time of 3.5 is not comparable - probably many persons
considered
> 3.5 as same kind of 'replacement' for MegaPOV (port of MegaPOV features to
> official distribution).

In fact I agree with Thorsten here. While people who frequent these groups
are well aware of Megapov, I believe that the majority of users out there
only know the official version. For instance, there are many specialised
utilities (architecture, chemistry etc.) that export to POV-Ray and the
people who use them are strictly "passive" POV-Ray users (not meant to be
derogatory of course). As a TAG member, I often receive questions from these
users, particularly when the utilities were made for 3.0 or 3.1 and that 3.5
complains about the #version directive.

So yes, an official, 100% rock-stable, documented and supported version is
fundamental (and I've been having fun with patches since POV-Ray 2.0). In
fact, it's one of the things that puts POV-Ray well above the pack of a
gazillion of nifty but unstable, undocumented and unsupported freewares, or
even a few commercial apps...

G.

--

**********************
http://www.oyonale.com
**********************
- Graphic experiments
- POV-Ray and Poser computer images
- Posters

Post a reply to this message

> So yes, an official, 100% rock-stable, documented and supported version is
> fundamental

yes this is a great thing and with MegaPOV we can have best of both worlds.
I just think that MegaPOV should have releases more often to really pleased
advanced users always looking for the latest neat features to test (and yes
ABX, I do know this is easier to say than to do :)

M

Post a reply to this message

In article <3ee87db7$1@news.povray.org> , "Mael" <mae### [at] hotmailcom> 
wrote:

>> So yes, an official, 100% rock-stable, documented and supported version is
>> fundamental
>
> yes this is a great thing and with MegaPOV we can have best of both worlds.

But as Gilles said, this is not what megaPOV provides, or what is the goal
of MegaPOV.  You can't have unfinished features and a 100% rock-stable
program.  Just does not work.  Actually, it cannot work.

    Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 15:18:48 +0200, "Mael" <mae### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> I just think that MegaPOV should have releases more often

It probably will in the future but unfortunetly 1.1 can't be released earlier
than its parent - 3.51. Not convenient but too late to change it :-(

ABX

Post a reply to this message

> >> So yes, an official, 100% rock-stable, documented and supported version
is
> >> fundamental
> >
> > yes this is a great thing and with MegaPOV we can have best of both
worlds.
>
> But as Gilles said, this is not what megaPOV provides, or what is the goal
> of MegaPOV.  You can't have unfinished features and a 100% rock-stable
> program.  Just does not work.  Actually, it cannot work.

Sorry I was totally not clear (It's really hot today and this doesn't help
me to think in english :) , I meant that it was great to have an official
Povray, stable, nicely documented AND at the same time to have MegaPOV to
provide more experimental stuff. So we have the two worlds each with its own
advantages

M

Post a reply to this message

Thorsten Froehlich wrote:

>
>I think you seriously lost track of reality by only reading these newsgroups
>frequented by several very advanced users.  While there are a few dozen
>users who play with some of the features a few unofficial versions provide,
>there are tens of thousands of users who use the official version of POV-Ray
>for their work because it provides a stable and reliable environment with
>finished features that have been well-tested.
>
>    Thorsten
>

Hear, hear!  There's plenty to play with!  I believe there's an expression
"A bad craftsman blames his tools."
--Library Man

Post a reply to this message

Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> Rewrite. No offense to those who work on MegaPOV or the other patches, but
> they indeed all suffer from exactly the same problems the patches that the
> POV-Team had to integrate into 3.5.  The current patches hardly get finished
> or bugfixed very well.  Don't expected anybody in the POV-Team is willing to
> repeat the same mistake again by reusing code from patches that don't work
> and then take years to get fixed.

I understand your point and it is probably correct for most patches,
mostly because the main goal while writing them is an actual need for a
feature, not a well tested and structured extension.  None the less it is
surely wrong to regard all patches equally - quite a few bugfix patches
from MegaPOV 1.0 were already added to official POV and there are various
feature enhancements in MegaPOV with a similar simplicity.

Of course this has nothing to do with the origianl topic of this thread -
it is definitely not a good idea to start adding new features to the
official POV-Ray 3.5 for a new release, this way there would probably
never be a new version - those who need new features should go for an
unofficial version.

Christoph    

-- 
POV-Ray tutorials, include files, Sim-POV,
HCR-Edit and more: http://www.tu-bs.de/~y0013390/
Last updated 28 Feb. 2003 _____./\/^>_*_<^\/\.______

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