 |
|
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
... send flames to my personal e-mail address since it is OT in here just to
tell me that you hate me and what an idiot I am. Thanks!
Very interesting how many people feel personally insulted when asking about
pricing policy. :-)
To explain it a bit further: (for those who still read my posts)
.) PoV is a great freeware Raytracer and a very good piece of software,
documentation and support. The developers spend most of their spare time (I
guess) to keep the good work up. I really know what I'm speaking about since
I had to let die my Astronomy software due to the lack of time (with roughly
4 hours a week I couldn't really do much in complex astronomical
algorithms...).
.) it is not unusual that excellent freeware turnes to shareware at some
point to keep up web sites, support and development.
.) The PoV team has costs for newsgroup, web space, buying compilers, books
or what ever. Currently they try to cover that by selling IRTC CD's,
Keyrings (hey, I got mine yesterday!) and whatever. If this is enough and
PoV can stay for free, it would be -great-
.) If not, I wouldn't hesitate to buy PoV
Seeing all this at a glance I can not beleive that there were never, ever
some thoughts about pricing. The team calculates (has to calculate) the
costs and try to cover them. The (planned?) book is another good idea for
this. The team knows the costs and has a good feeling about the number of
the users. I am sure it is easy to calculate a price necessary to keep up
support ( if you count the -time- of the developers efforts it would be
unpayable)
But you all know this (even better than me, I guess) so why do I have to
explain it?
Just one thing I don't understand is, why people tell me that I am an idiot
if I do basic financial calculations and ask the developers about their
results?
regards
SY
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
news:3c96ed71$1@news.povray.org...
> Just one thing I don't understand is, why people tell me that I am an
idiot
> if I do basic financial calculations and ask the developers about their
> results?
>
> regards
> SY
Here's a few snips from povlegal.doc; please take the time to read the whole
thing, if you haven't. If you have, these parts are still somewhat
relevant. It even includes your calculated price :)
...Chambers
The POV-RayT developers decided, long ago (about 1990), that they did
not want the free nature of this package to be sullied by
unscrupulous third parties who wanted to make a quick buck from the
developer's hard work. This decision was made after some practical
experience with just such activity. We have strong objections to
end-users having to pay for this software when they could have
received it for free had they only known better.
...
Only non-commercial distribution in which no money or compensation is
charged (such as a user copying the Software for a personal friend or
colleague) is permitted.
...
CONDITIONS FOR CD-ROM DISTRIBUTION
CONDITIONS FOR SHAREWARE/FREEWARE DISTRIBUTION
A 'shareware and freeware distributor', for the purpose of this
document, is one which CLEARLY IDENTIFIES itself as such to anyone
dealing with it or its resellers, both in general, and also with
respect to the interior and exterior packaging of any products it
sells. If there is any possibility that a person, prior to or after
performing a purchase of any shareware or freeware product from the
distributor or any reseller of the distributor, would not be aware
that they are receiving shareware or freeware software, then that
distributor is NOT considered a 'shareware or freeware distributor'
by this license, and the following grant of permission does not apply
to them.
Additionally, the following only applies to distributors of collected
programs; anyone wishing to bundle the package with a shareware
product must use the commercial bundling rules set out below under
"CONDITIONS FOR COMMERCIAL BUNDLING". Also, a distribution that would
otherwise have qualified under the 'shareware/freeware distributor'
terms, but which is constructed in such a way that it would be of
little or no practical use without POV-RayT, is considered commercial
and must use the commercial bundling rules.
Shareware and freeware distribution companies may distribute the
Software included in software- only compilations using media such as,
but not limited to, floppy disk, CD-ROM, tape backup, optical disks,
hard disks, or memory cards.
Distribution on CD-ROM or high capacity media such as backup tape is
permitted if the total cost to the user is no more than two (2) U.S.
cents per megabyte of data. For example a CD-ROM with 600 meg could
cost no more than US$12.00 at any point of sale, including the point
of sale to the consumer. Companies or individuals that distribute to
resellers hereby agree that they will be in breach of this license if
any of their resellers breach this license and such companies or
individuals indemnify the POV-TeamT accordingly.
Any bundling with books, magazines or other print media must have the
prior written approval of the POV-TeamT. If we do approve of such
publication, you must provide us with two (2) copies of the
publication in question as soon as it is released. In the case of
magazines, we normally approve such requests, subject to the
conditions in this document.
For floppy disk distribution, no more than one US dollar (US$1.00)
can be charged per disk for the copying of this Software and the
media it is provided on. Space on each disk must be used as fully as
possible. You may not spread the files over more disks than are
necessary.
The users to whom you wish to distribute the Software must also agree
to be bound by the terms and conditions of this License Agreement.
You indemnify the POV-TeamT from any loss or harm which it may suffer
as a result of your failure to ensure that the users to whom you are
distributing the Software have agreed to be bound by the terms and
conditions of this License Agreement.
...
CONDITIONS FOR COMMERCIAL BUNDLING
Vendors wishing to bundle POV-RayT with commercial software
(including shareware) or any other use or distribution not already
expressly allowed above must first obtain the express written
permission from the POV-TeamT. The POV-TeamT will, in its sole
discretion, decide if such use will be allowed on a case-by-case
basis and may impose whatever conditions it sees fit.
For commercial distribution, the minimum terms are given below. Other
conditions may be imposed.
The product must be an existing product that has proven itself as
commercially viable without POV-RayT included.
The inclusion of POV-RayT should be promoted only as a free bonus and
not as a feature designed to encourage customers to purchase or
upgrade solely for the POV-RayT capability.
*****
Purchasers of your product must not be led to believe that they are
paying for POV-RayT.
*****
Any mention of the POV-RayT bundle on the box,
in advertising or in instruction manuals must be clearly marked with
a disclaimer that POV-RayT is free software and can be obtained for
free or nominal cost from various sources.
You must include clear and obvious information on how to obtain
POV-RayT via our official distribution points.
You must provide all POV-RayT support for all users who acquired
POV-RayT through your product. The POV-TeamT is not obligated to
provide you or your customers any technical support.
You must include a credit page or pages in your documentation for
POV-RayT.
If you modify any portion of POV-RayT for use with your hardware or
software, you must follow the custom version rules in addition to
these rules.
You must include contact and support information for your product.
You must include a full user package as described in "ONLINE OR
REMOTE EXECUTION OF POV-RAY" above , including the License Agreement
which the user must agree to be bound by.
...
RETAIL VALUE OF THIS SOFTWARE
Although POV-RayT is, when distributed within the terms of this
agreement, free of charge, the retail value (or price) of this
program is determined as US$30.00 per copy distributed or copied. If
the Software is distributed or copied without authorization the
person(s) or entity(ies) responsible or involved are each legally
liable to the maximum extent permitted by law for the full amount of
this debt to the copyright holder, or any other person or
organization delegated by the copyright holder for the collection of
this debt.
However, the above paragraph in no way constitutes permission to
distribute this Software outside of the terms of this agreement. In
particular, the conditions and debt mentioned above (whether paid or
unpaid) do not allow you to avoid statutory damages or other legal
penalties and does not constitute any agreement that would allow you
to avoid such other legal remedies as are available to the copyright
holder.
Put simply, POV-RayT is only free if you comply with our distribution
conditions; it is not free otherwise. The copyright holder of this
Software chooses to give it away free under these and only these
conditions. If you distribute this Software in violation of this
license, what you are doing is no different than if you took a copy
of a commercial software product and distributed it without the
permission of the copyright holder of that product.
For the purpose of copyright regulations and/or statutory damages
provisions, the retail value of this Software is US$30.00 per copy.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.323 / Virus Database: 180 - Release Date: 2/9/2002
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
>
> ... send flames to my personal e-mail address since it is OT in here just to
> tell me that you hate me and what an idiot I am. Thanks!
>
> Very interesting how many people feel personally insulted when asking about
> pricing policy. :-)
I think this is fairly natural, imagine you were working for a non profit
organization without getting money like a volunteer firefighter and you
were being asked what you will charge for your services next year.
If you have a look at the history of Povray you will recognize that the
program being free and source available was a major premise throughout the
history.
> .) it is not unusual that excellent freeware turnes to shareware at some
> point to keep up web sites, support and development.
But you probably know that a lot of those programs get out of development
or drop into insignificance after that for obvious reasons.
Christoph
--
POV-Ray tutorials, IsoWood include,
TransSkin and more: http://www.tu-bs.de/~y0013390/
Last updated 18 Mar. 2002 _____./\/^>_*_<^\/\.______
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
"Ben Chambers" <bdc### [at] yahoo com> wrote in message
news:3c96f72d@news.povray.org...
>
> news:3c96ed71$1@news.povray.org...
> > Just one thing I don't understand is, why people tell me that I am an
> idiot
> > if I do basic financial calculations and ask the developers about their
> > results?
> >
> > regards
> > SY
>
> Here's a few snips from povlegal.doc; please take the time to read the
whole
> thing, if you haven't. If you have, these parts are still somewhat
> relevant. It even includes your calculated price :)
>
> ...Chambers
BTW, I think people are sensitive about it because they've seen many good
(and favorite) software programs go down the tubes, and they want to keep
POV around and free. eg, take a look at Blender. Quite popular, from what
I understand (I never could get into it, myself), very capable; and dead.
...Chambers
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.323 / Virus Database: 180 - Release Date: 2/9/2002
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
>
> Very interesting how many people feel personally insulted when asking
about
> pricing policy. :-)
Because you didn't ask about pricing policy, you asked to what degree
the development team was going to sell out their principles next time
around. The subject "How much will Povray cost?" is an insult to those
people who have worked hard both to keep Povray free and to honor the idea
of freeware. It assumes that they will fail, and that soon. You could have
said "Will Povray cost?" and it might have been seen as just an honest
question, but no... you had to load it up with assumptions and emotionally
laden adjectives.
You deserved what you got (which was mostly polite) and probably more.
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
> I think this is fairly natural, imagine you were working for a non profit
> organization without getting money like a volunteer firefighter and you
> were being asked what you will charge for your services next year.
Depends on the costs. The volounteers wouldn't see a cent for their work.
The money would have to be used for Web-access, news server, compilers and
other stuff.
You guys all think just in one way: earning money to get rich.
> > .) it is not unusual that excellent freeware turnes to shareware at some
> > point to keep up web sites, support and development.
>
> But you probably know that a lot of those programs get out of development
> or drop into insignificance after that for obvious reasons.
Yes but why? Because too many people stop using the software just because
they would have to pay a small fee to support it! As long as it is free
everyone is enthusiastic, if it comes to give some credit to the developers,
they are all gone and the software has to die.
Exactly the same reason why a lot of guys got angry in here!
I don't expect anyone to get rich on that. This is not the reason for such a
fee.
But I don't want to repeat myself.
regards
SY
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
> > Here's a few snips from povlegal.doc; please take the time to read the
> whole
I know this. But thanks anyway.
> BTW, I think people are sensitive about it because they've seen many good
> (and favorite) software programs go down the tubes, and they want to keep
> POV around and free. eg, take a look at Blender. Quite popular, from
what
> I understand (I never could get into it, myself), very capable; and dead.
yes. please see my RE to Christoph.
regards
SY
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
> > Very interesting how many people feel personally insulted when asking
> about
> > pricing policy. :-)
>
> Because you didn't ask about pricing policy, you asked to what degree
> the development team was going to sell out their principles next time
> around. The subject "How much will Povray cost?" is an insult to those
> people who have worked hard both to keep Povray free and to honor the idea
> of freeware. It assumes that they will fail, and that soon. You could have
> said "Will Povray cost?" and it might have been seen as just an honest
> question, but no... you had to load it up with assumptions and emotionally
> laden adjectives.
>
> You deserved what you got (which was mostly polite) and probably more.
Not really.
POV's increasing popularity will mean that at some point giving it away
becomes to expensive.
--
Rick
Kitty5 WebDesign - http://Kitty5.com
POV-Ray News & Resources - http://Povray.co.uk
TEL : +44 (01270) 501101 - FAX : +44 (01270) 251105 - ICQ : 15776037
PGP Public Key
http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x231E1CEA
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
news:3c96ed71$1@news.povray.org...
<snip>
Jurgen, what you need to ask yourself is why did your posts cause such
annoyance? Could it be that you ascribed dishonest motives to the developers (in
that their stated reasons for beta-expiry were not the true ones)? As others
have pointed out, there were many polite ways you could have phrased your
question - you just didn't happen to use them.
Your posts read like provocative flame-bait, and, in that context, we were just
being obliging....
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
>
> [silly stuff]
Others seem to be ready to poke your eyes out with the
POV-Ray logo but I'm just amused. I red it yesterday
and it's still funny!
There is a limited market for POV-Ray because:
__________________
| |
| Your IQ must be |
| |
| this high --> |
| |
| to use POV-Ray |
|__________________|
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
|_|
________/ \___________
_____________
Kari Kivisalo
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
|
|
