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http://www.xl3d.com/bottom.htm
I haven't looked at it yet, but it looks interesting.
...Chambers
---
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On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:04:46 -0800, "Ben Chambers" <bdc### [at] yahoo com>
wrote:
> http://www.xl3d.com/bottom.htm
> I haven't looked at it yet, but it looks interesting.
AFAIK they mix terms. They write about OpenGL as raytracer but afaik OpenGL is
not a raytracer. Am I right ? I'm not an expert but this thing looks at first
sight like Moray with OpenGL preview. Perhaps with speed improvements. I'm
sceptical :-)
ABX
--
disc{z,-z 5#macro O()asc(substr("-+((1*(,1,/.-,*/(,&.323/'1"e,1))*.1-4#declare
e=e-1;#end#local e=26;pigment{#local g=function(_){ceil(_)-_}function#local//X
k=function{pattern{object{sphere_sweep{linear_spline 13#while(e>0)<O(),O()//AB
>.01#end}}}}{k(g(atan2(x,y)),g(ln((y+x)^2+1e-5)),0)}}finish{ambient 1}}//POV35
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In article <l20h8us9sqrsng4tdrn8kl9h6o2mvd2prq@4ax.com>,
W?odzimierz ABX Skiba <abx### [at] babilonorg> wrote:
> AFAIK they mix terms. They write about OpenGL as raytracer but afaik OpenGL is
> not a raytracer. Am I right ? I'm not an expert but this thing looks at first
> sight like Moray with OpenGL preview. Perhaps with speed improvements. I'm
> sceptical :-)
OpenGL has no built-in support for raytracing, but there is a trick
which has to do with getting it to render a single pixel and getting the
depth of that pixel. The result is intersection information...very
roundabout and probably too inefficient to be useful, but I don't really
know.
You could also use scanline rendering instead of tracing the primary
rays, if you don't mind everything being converted to polygons. Same
technique: use the depth buffer to find the intersection points. Barely
something you could consider raytracing, but it accomplishes the same
thing.
--
Christopher James Huff <chr### [at] maccom>
POV-Ray TAG e-mail: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg
TAG web site: http://tag.povray.org/
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Ben Chambers <bdc### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> http://www.xl3d.com/bottom.htm
> I haven't looked at it yet, but it looks interesting.
The source of the page which that links give me is the following:
<html>
<head>
<title>**</title>
</head>
<body marginheight=10 marginwidth=10 topmargin=10 leftmargin=10 background="imag
es/bot-bg.gif">
</body>
</html>
Yes, looks quite interesting.
Besides, real-time raytracing is nothing fancy. POV-Ray can do it.
--
#macro N(D)#if(D>99)cylinder{M()#local D=div(D,104);M().5,2pigment{rgb M()}}
N(D)#end#end#macro M()<mod(D,13)-6mod(div(D,13)8)-3,10>#end blob{
N(11117333955)N(4254934330)N(3900569407)N(7382340)N(3358)N(970)}// - Warp -
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In article <3c88c39b@news.povray.org> , Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> Besides, real-time raytracing is nothing fancy. POV-Ray can do it.
And it can do so with double precision (the mentioned code uses single
precision all the way) and something better than a few triangles and spheres
using primitive light model, for example text objects and phong shading...
Thorsten
____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde
Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org
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And how can that be set up? Or is it something for version 4 (!!!) that
we're just getting a preview of in 3.5?
"Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote in message
news:3c890f9f@news.povray.org...
> In article <3c88c39b@news.povray.org> , Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
>
> > Besides, real-time raytracing is nothing fancy. POV-Ray can do it.
>
> And it can do so with double precision (the mentioned code uses single
> precision all the way) and something better than a few triangles and
spheres
> using primitive light model, for example text objects and phong shading...
>
> Thorsten
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
> e-mail: tho### [at] trfde
>
> Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org
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In article <3c891e05$1@news.povray.org> , "Mahalis" <don### [at] fakeycom>
wrote:
> And how can that be set up? Or is it something for version 4 (!!!) that
> we're just getting a preview of in 3.5?
No, just a built-in scene to demonstrate that contrary to some claims POV-Ray
is not slow. Some scenes are simply very complex and people making the claim
a scene renders slowly because POV-Ray would be slow don't really know what
they are talking about because they are comparing it to (commercial) programs
that don't use ray-tracing or simplified forms of (pseudo) ray-tracing :-)
Thorsten
____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich
e-mail: mac### [at] povrayorg
I am a member of the POV-Ray Team.
Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org
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On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:24:30 -0500, "Mahalis" <don### [at] fakeycom> wrote:
> And how can that be set up? Or is it something for version 4 (!!!) that
> we're just getting a preview of in 3.5?
It is builded in Win and Mac version. Read carefuly latest longest discussion
in povray.programming (it was there iirc). With GUI-Extensions everybody can
build its own application to real-time cooperation with povray.
ABX
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Just get a fast-enough computer, make a simple scene and render it
in an animation.
For example this scene:
camera { location -z*15 look_at 0 angle 35 }
light_source { <100,250,-50>, 1 }
union
{ sphere { -x, 1 }
sphere { x, 1 }
sphere { y, 1 }
box { <-2,0,-1.5><2,-1,1.5> }
pigment { rgb <1,.5> }
finish { specular .5 reflection .5 }
rotate <clock*360, 2*clock*360, .75*clock*360>
}
renders in my computer (1.2GHz Athlon) at 320x240 with +kff500 -ga -f
at about 5 FPS.
--
#macro M(A,N,D,L)plane{-z,-9pigment{mandel L*9translate N color_map{[0rgb x]
[1rgb 9]}scale<D,D*3D>*1e3}rotate y*A*8}#end M(-3<1.206434.28623>70,7)M(
-1<.7438.1795>1,20)M(1<.77595.13699>30,20)M(3<.75923.07145>80,99)// - Warp -
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In article <3c8924f0@news.povray.org> , Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> Just get a fast-enough computer, make a simple scene and render it
> in an animation.
> For example this scene:
>
> camera { location -z*15 look_at 0 angle 35 }
> light_source { <100,250,-50>, 1 }
> union
> { sphere { -x, 1 }
> sphere { x, 1 }
> sphere { y, 1 }
> box { <-2,0,-1.5><2,-1,1.5> }
> pigment { rgb <1,.5> }
> finish { specular .5 reflection .5 }
> rotate <clock*360, 2*clock*360, .75*clock*360>
> }
>
> renders in my computer (1.2GHz Athlon) at 320x240 with +kff500 -ga -f
> at about 5 FPS.
Indeed, even the render windows with their slower display deliver such
framerates on fast systems today.
Of course, the demo that is built-in has a few additional features like being
thread-safe and no dependency on dynamic memory allocation. It also uses more
appropriate bouble-buffered drawing. The hard-coded scene allows to skip
parsing as well, also the scene currently used isn't really very simple: In
the scene description language it is less than forty lines with no fancy
constructs, but expanded in C it is over 2000 lines of structure definitions
taking about 20 KB of memory...
Oh, and before people start wondering why the POV-Team spends time on this, it
should be noted that this allows for example to uncover bugs or inefficiencies
in the source code and in addition only "playing" with some parts of the code
allow us to understand again what those who programmed it a decade ago were up
to. In short, playing with it today allows improvements for all users in the
future :-)
Thorsten
____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich
e-mail: mac### [at] povrayorg
I am a member of the POV-Ray Team.
Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org
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Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> Oh, and before people start wondering why the POV-Team spends time on this, it
> should be noted that this allows for example to uncover bugs or inefficiencies
> in the source code and in addition only "playing" with some parts of the code
> allow us to understand again what those who programmed it a decade ago were up
> to. In short, playing with it today allows improvements for all users in the
> future :-)
Will this be part of the source release so everyone can study it? I
remember reading somewhere that the easter egg is supposed to be only in
the official version.
Christoph
--
POV-Ray tutorials, IsoWood include,
TransSkin and more: http://www.tu-bs.de/~y0013390/
Last updated 21 Feb. 2002 _____./\/^>_*_<^\/\.______
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Warp wrote:
>
> Just get a fast-enough computer, make a simple scene and render it
> in an animation.
> For example this scene:
>
> camera { location -z*15 look_at 0 angle 35 }
> light_source { <100,250,-50>, 1 }
> union
> { sphere { -x, 1 }
> sphere { x, 1 }
> sphere { y, 1 }
> box { <-2,0,-1.5><2,-1,1.5> }
> pigment { rgb <1,.5> }
> finish { specular .5 reflection .5 }
> rotate <clock*360, 2*clock*360, .75*clock*360>
> }
>
> renders in my computer (1.2GHz Athlon) at 320x240 with +kff500 -ga -f
> at about 5 FPS.
>
Bummer, my work system (which is about 2.5 times as fast as my home
system) did one frame per three seconds.
(I just realized the other day that Exile: Myst 3 requires a pentium II
or better - so, I'll probably need a $400 upgrade to run a $30 game.)
--
Tom A.
"No doubt many that post deserve to be flamed. And many that are flamed
didn't deserve it. Can you give them the latter? Then don't be so
quick to deal out the former!" - not Gandalf.
Deja mail is gone. Look for me at raugost at yahoo . com
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In article <3C892FB8.77CD4BBE@gmx.de> , Christoph Hormann
<chr### [at] gmxde> wrote:
> Will this be part of the source release so everyone can study it? I
> remember reading somewhere that the easter egg is supposed to be only in
> the official version.
It will only be in the official version without source code. However, the
code used to output a few scene objects as C structures is in the core code.
Additionally, all necessary function prototypes are made available to callers
outside the modules used by the RTR code. So a general hint is that if
something that isn't available in some POV-Ray header file is required, one is
on the wrong track! The actual code one needs is between 50 to 500 lines
depending on how far one wants to go with the demo and its flexibility and
abstraction - the current demo needs nothing else but a single pixel drawing
function and provides an control interface in another handful of functions.
the pixel drawing function is provided by the platform specific code,
everything else is fully portable. In fact, a simple implementation that
doesn't allow the core to render during the RTR demo (note that the current
RTR demo can run in parallel) is so straight forward that anybody with a bit
of POV-Ray patching experience and some good C programming knowledge can write
it in less than a day. It can also be done with POV-Ray 3.1 just as well, so
if anybody wants to try...
Or, as some authors like to put it:
"This is left as an exercise to the reader." :-)
Thorsten
____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde
Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org
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> (I just realized the other day that Exile: Myst 3 requires a pentium II
> or better - so, I'll probably need a $400 upgrade to run a $30 game.)
IMO, the game is almost worth that much =) it's comparable to the original
if you let yourself get into it.
Sorry for getting off topic...
- Slime
[ http://www.slimeland.com/ ]
[ http://www.slimeland.com/images/ ]
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"Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote in message
news:3c892076@news.povray.org...
> In article <3c891e05$1@news.povray.org> , "Mahalis"
<don### [at] fakeycom>
> wrote:
>
> > And how can that be set up? Or is it something for version 4 (!!!) that
> > we're just getting a preview of in 3.5?
>
> No, just a built-in scene to demonstrate that contrary to some claims
POV-Ray
> is not slow. Some scenes are simply very complex and people making the
claim
> a scene renders slowly because POV-Ray would be slow don't really know
what
> they are talking about because they are comparing it to (commercial)
programs
> that don't use ray-tracing or simplified forms of (pseudo) ray-tracing :-)
>
> Thorsten
OK, I give. How do you activate it? :)
...Chambers
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.323 / Virus Database: 180 - Release Date: 2/8/2002
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In article <3c89ce18@news.povray.org> , "Ben Chambers"
<bdc### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> OK, I give. How do you activate it? :)
You have to find out yourself. The only hint I am going to give is that in
both the Mac and the Windows version it is in the about box and that both use
a completely different character combination to activate it. The rest is up
to you, and in the spirit of everybody having the fun we count on you to keep
it for yourself once found, but of course tell others that it is there! :-)
Thorsten
____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde
Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org
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I know where it is in the about box- do you mean there's some way to build a
gui-ext for 3.5 that'll give access to the real-time thing?
"W³odzimierz ABX Skiba" <abx### [at] babilonorg> wrote in message
news:au7i8u8b54vg4mduo33eb20n5kcmhfv44u@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:24:30 -0500, "Mahalis" <don### [at] fakeycom>
wrote:
> > And how can that be set up? Or is it something for version 4 (!!!) that
> > we're just getting a preview of in 3.5?
>
> It is builded in Win and Mac version. Read carefuly latest longest
discussion
> in povray.programming (it was there iirc). With GUI-Extensions everybody
can
> build its own application to real-time cooperation with povray.
>
> ABX
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"Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote in message
news:3c89ff74$1@news.povray.org...
> In article <3c89ce18@news.povray.org> , "Ben Chambers"
> <bdc### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
>
> > OK, I give. How do you activate it? :)
>
> You have to find out yourself. The only hint I am going to give is that
in
> both the Mac and the Windows version it is in the about box and that both
use
> a completely different character combination to activate it. The rest is
up
> to you, and in the spirit of everybody having the fun we count on you to
keep
> it for yourself once found, but of course tell others that it is there!
:-)
>
> Thorsten
Hmm... well, that helps already. I was trying various mouse button
combinations.
Just one more question (clarification): the splash screen, or the about box
that comes up after it?
Oh, and are there any other hints, anywhere? :)
...Chambers
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.323 / Virus Database: 180 - Release Date: 2/8/2002
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In article <3c8a31e3@news.povray.org> , "Ben Chambers"
<bdc### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> he splash screen, or the about box
The answer is already in my previous message! :-)
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"Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3c8a3b78$1@news.povray.org...
> In article <3c8a31e3@news.povray.org> , "Ben Chambers"
> <bdc### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
>
> > he splash screen, or the about box
>
> The answer is already in my previous message! :-)
could you please do AA the result in the next version ?
Probably render it with Alpha channel, and then blend it ...
You know what I mean ...
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In article <3c8a4918@news.povray.org> , "Jan Walzer" <jan### [at] lzernet> wrote:
> could you please do AA the result in the next version ?
> Probably render it with Alpha channel, and then blend it ...
I guess you saw the little note in the Windows status bar?
It does actually support a very simple antialiasing (not as processing
intensive as the regular POV-Ray methods), a more interesting camera movement,
reflections and a moveable light source are on the list as well. However,
right now you cannot turn on any of these features (some are not complete
yet).
Thorsten
____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde
Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org
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Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
> In article <3c89ce18@news.povray.org> , "Ben Chambers"
> <bdc### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
>
>> OK, I give. How do you activate it? :)
>
> You have to find out yourself. The only hint I am going to give is that
> in both the Mac and the Windows version it is in the about box and that
> both use
> a completely different character combination to activate it. The rest is
> up to you, and in the spirit of everybody having the fun we count on you
> to keep it for yourself once found, but of course tell others that it is
> there! :-)
so you're saying it is not available in the Linux version?
--
David
smuchrusher <at> ameritech <dot> net
ICQ#: 118347772
1:09pm up 4 days, 14:30, 4 users, load average: 3.10, 3.21, 3.06
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In article <3c8a5fbd$1@news.povray.org> , David F <smu### [at] ameritechnet>
wrote:
> so you're saying it is not available in the Linux version?
Well, without a GUI there cannot be an about box, can there?
Thorsten
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Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
> In article <3c8a5fbd$1@news.povray.org> , David F
> <smu### [at] ameritechnet> wrote:
>
>> so you're saying it is not available in the Linux version?
>
> Well, without a GUI there cannot be an about box, can there?
>
> Thorsten
>
No, but you could be nice and put it somewhere else.....
--
David
smuchrusher <at> ameritech <dot> net
ICQ#: 118347772
2:26pm up 4 days, 15:46, 4 users, load average: 3.08, 3.16, 3.17
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> No, but you could be nice and put it somewhere else.....
trust me:
this feature doesn't make as much sense anywhere else ...
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In article <3c8a7a0b$1@news.povray.org>,
David F <smu### [at] ameritechnet> wrote:
> No, but you could be nice and put it somewhere else.....
Where? How? Display it as ASCII?
Hmm...realtime, raytraced ASCII art...
--
Christopher James Huff <chr### [at] maccom>
POV-Ray TAG e-mail: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg
TAG web site: http://tag.povray.org/
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Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
>
> No, just a built-in scene to demonstrate that contrary to some claims
> POV-Ray is not slow. Some scenes are simply very complex and people
> making the claim a scene renders slowly because POV-Ray would be slow
> don't really know what they are talking about because they are
> comparing it to (commercial) programs that don't use ray-tracing or
> simplified forms of (pseudo) ray-tracing :-)
As an example of what the industry uses for serious work: On the two-
disc DVD set for Shrek, the CGI supervisors remark on one scene that
took nine hours per frame to render.
Regards,
John
--
ICQ: 46085459
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"Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote in message
news:3c8a3b78$1@news.povray.org...
> In article <3c8a31e3@news.povray.org> , "Ben Chambers"
> <bdc### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
>
> > he splash screen, or the about box
>
> The answer is already in my previous message! :-)
Thanks, just wanted to make sure! :)
...Chambers
PS Any other hints you'd like to give would be welcome :)
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.323 / Virus Database: 180 - Release Date: 2/8/2002
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> Where? How? Display it as ASCII?
> Hmm...realtime, raytraced ASCII art...
You know JaVE ? ...
- ASCII-Graphics Editor ...
- does 3D-Graphics in ASCII ...
not as comfortable as POV, but it works ...
.. even Animation is possible ... (in ASCII) ...
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"Warp" wrote:
> renders in my computer (1.2GHz Athlon) at 320x240
> with +kff500 -ga -f at about 5 FPS.
8.3 FPS here on an Athlon XP 1700+ :)
Rune
--
3D images and anims, include files, tutorials and more:
Rune's World: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk (updated Feb 16)
POV-Ray Users: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk/povrayusers/
POV-Ray Webring: http://webring.povray.co.uk
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> > OK, I give. How do you activate it? :)
>
> You have to find out yourself. The only hint I am going to give is that
in
> both the Mac and the Windows version it is in the about box and that both
use
> a completely different character combination to activate it. The rest is
up
> to you, and in the spirit of everybody having the fun we count on you to
keep
> it for yourself once found, but of course tell others that it is there!
:-)
>
> Thorsten
Do I have to use a mouse button?
Felix Wiemann
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> > No, just a built-in scene to demonstrate that contrary to some claims
> > POV-Ray is not slow. Some scenes are simply very complex and people
> > making the claim a scene renders slowly because POV-Ray would be slow
> > don't really know what they are talking about because they are
> > comparing it to (commercial) programs that don't use ray-tracing or
> > simplified forms of (pseudo) ray-tracing :-)
>
> As an example of what the industry uses for serious work: On the two-
> disc DVD set for Shrek, the CGI supervisors remark on one scene that
> took nine hours per frame to render.
On the bonus disc for Final Fantasy etc. etc. it was mentioned that one
of the scene files took about 45 minutes to load up on the systems they
were using... (can't check exact details right now, I've lent the discs
out to a friesnd, and won't be visiting him again until next month.
Sheesh, you're gone from Friday evening to Sunday evening and there are
55ish posts waiting here to ambush you when you get back...)
Bye for now,
Jamie.
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On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 07:36:57 -0500, "Mahalis" <don### [at] fakeycom> wrote:
> I know where it is in the about box- do you mean there's some way to build a
> gui-ext for 3.5 that'll give access to the real-time thing?
I think it could work like moray preview just rest of modeller would be
replaced with algorithm of simple scene generation. Fast enough machine could
support such online animation.
ABX
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No. Just the keyboard.
"Felix Wiemann" <Fel### [at] gmxnet> wrote in message
news:3c8b6d85$1@news.povray.org...
> > > OK, I give. How do you activate it? :)
> >
> > You have to find out yourself. The only hint I am going to give is that
> in
> > both the Mac and the Windows version it is in the about box and that
both
> use
> > a completely different character combination to activate it. The rest
is
> up
> > to you, and in the spirit of everybody having the fun we count on you to
> keep
> > it for yourself once found, but of course tell others that it is there!
> :-)
> >
> > Thorsten
>
> Do I have to use a mouse button?
>
> Felix Wiemann
>
>
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On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 13:25:07 -0600, David F wrote:
> so you're saying it is not available in the Linux version?
Sure, it's right there in the about box. What, you don't have an about box?
--
#macro R(L P)sphere{L __}cylinder{L P __}#end#macro P(_1)union{R(z+_ z)R(-z _-z)
R(_-z*3_+z)torus{1__ clipped_by{plane{_ 0}}}translate z+_1}#end#macro S(_)9-(_1-
_)*(_1-_)#end#macro Z(_1 _ __)union{P(_)P(-_)R(y-z-1_)translate.1*_1-y*8pigment{
rgb<S(7)S(5)S(3)>}}#if(_1)Z(_1-__,_,__)#end#end Z(10x*-2,.2)camera{rotate x*90}
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"Mahalis" <don### [at] fakeycom> wrote in message
news:3c8c996a$1@news.povray.org...
> No. Just the keyboard.
Special keys (ctrl, alt, etc) or just alphanumberic?
I've tried all sorts of combinations, and nothing jumps out at me from the
about box...
...Chambers
PS Should we move this to OT for now?
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.323 / Virus Database: 180 - Release Date: 2/8/2002
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On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:47:11 -0800, "Ben Chambers"
<bdc### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
>I've tried all sorts of combinations, and nothing jumps out at me from the
>about box...
The truth is out there... It took Newton 20 years and a heavy apple to
realize something that was right under his nose...
Peter Popov ICQ : 15002700
Personal e-mail : pet### [at] vipbg
TAG e-mail : pet### [at] tagpovrayorg
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>>I've tried all sorts of combinations, and nothing jumps out at me from
>>the about box...
>
> The truth is out there... It took Newton 20 years and a heavy apple to
> realize something that was right under his nose...
boogers?
Rick
Kitty5 WebDesign - http://Kitty5.com
POV-Ray News & Resources - http://Povray.co.uk
TEL : +44 (01270) 501101 - FAX : +44 (01270) 251105 - ICQ : 15776037
PGP Public Key
http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x231E1CEA
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Peter Popov <pet### [at] vipbg> wrote:
> The truth is out there... It took Newton 20 years and a heavy apple to
> realize something that was right under his nose...
AFAIK the apple story is just a story which has nothing to do with
reality...
--
#macro N(D)#if(D>99)cylinder{M()#local D=div(D,104);M().5,2pigment{rgb M()}}
N(D)#end#end#macro M()<mod(D,13)-6mod(div(D,13)8)-3,10>#end blob{
N(11117333955)N(4254934330)N(3900569407)N(7382340)N(3358)N(970)}// - Warp -
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On 14 Mar 2002 09:41:54 -0500, Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> AFAIK the apple story is just a story which has nothing to do with
>reality...
I know, hence the 20 years I mentioned.
Peter Popov ICQ : 15002700
Personal e-mail : pet### [at] vipbg
TAG e-mail : pet### [at] tagpovrayorg
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