I have been considering using Moray as the tool for modeling since it allows
on to focus on the scene rather than the statements. The idea would be to
teach the statements but at each statement show how to do the same thing in
Moray. I would like to hear opinions on this idea. I have been told the most
people DO NOT use modeling tools and that mixing up pure pov ray statements
and a modeling program would be useless for many users. I was thinking the
Moray parts would be in gray boxes inside the pages so they could be
ignored, but that may still turn some people off. Comments?

thanks

Mitch

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> I have been considering using Moray as the tool for modeling since it
allows
> on to focus on the scene rather than the statements. The idea would be to
> teach the statements but at each statement show how to do the same thing
in
> Moray. I would like to hear opinions on this idea. I have been told the
most
> people DO NOT use modeling tools and that mixing up pure pov ray
statements
> and a modeling program would be useless for many users. I was thinking the
> Moray parts would be in gray boxes inside the pages so they could be
> ignored, but that may still turn some people off. Comments?

personnally think the pov script itself is the biggest turn off for pov
newbies, it also has to be noted that pov script while being very suitable
for some projects it totally unsuited to others.

Moray offers the closest graphical representation of pov script, but there
are times when you need to turn to other tools, such as sPatch or rhino -
both of which export directly to pov and moray


--

Rick

Kitty5 WebDesign - http://Kitty5.com
POV-Ray News & Resources - http://Povray.co.uk
TEL : +44 (01270) 501101 - FAX : +44 (01270) 251105 - ICQ : 15776037

PGP Public Key
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I've always had a problem with Moray, primarily because it
uses reverse (right handed) polar coordinates, and I find
the syntax output difficult to read. I think it would be better
to do the same thing using sPatch or Hamapatch.

HB


"Mitchell Waite" <mit### [at] dnaicom> wrote in message
news:3c48471b@news.povray.org...
> I have been considering using Moray as the tool for modeling since it
allows
> on to focus on the scene rather than the statements. The idea would be to
> teach the statements but at each statement show how to do the same thing
in
> Moray. I would like to hear opinions on this idea. I have been told the
most
> people DO NOT use modeling tools and that mixing up pure pov ray
statements
> and a modeling program would be useless for many users. I was thinking the
> Moray parts would be in gray boxes inside the pages so they could be
> ignored, but that may still turn some people off. Comments?
>
> thanks
>
> Mitch
>
>

Post a reply to this message

I use Moray.  But I 90% go back into the script file and
hand-tweek it.  I'm interested in quicker modeling using the
scripts Moray outputs so I can get to animating faster, but that
is my personal approach- others like to hand-code their
animations.  I like to write little bits of code to help automate
certain tedious tasks for me.

Your idea with M. in grey boxes would be fine to me, but
consider: Moray comes with some extensive Docs of its own, and I
can't see why a book should tutor people on any of the same
material already covered by the tutorials that come with Moray. 
A tips and *undocumented* tricks approach to covering Moray would
be more interesting to me.

-peter

Mitchell Waite wrote:
> 
> I have been considering using Moray as the tool for modeling since it allows
> on to focus on the scene rather than the statements. The idea would be to
> teach the statements but at each statement show how to do the same thing in
> Moray. I would like to hear opinions on this idea. I have been told the most
> people DO NOT use modeling tools and that mixing up pure pov ray statements
> and a modeling program would be useless for many users. I was thinking the
> Moray parts would be in gray boxes inside the pages so they could be
> ignored, but that may still turn some people off. Comments?
> 
> thanks
> 
> Mitch

-- 
Current obsession: "Ballet pour ma fille."
http://www.applesnake.net

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That *is* an odd detail to Moray that one day should just be
bitten off, chewed, and fixed.  It would mean recoding to a lot
of apps out there, but the longer we go...

Heck it could be an output option in the scripts, no?

Harold Baize wrote:
> 
> I've always had a problem with Moray, primarily because it
> uses reverse (right handed) polar coordinates, and I find
> the syntax output difficult to read. I think it would be better
> to do the same thing using sPatch or Hamapatch.
> 
> HB
> 
> "Mitchell Waite" <mit### [at] dnaicom> wrote in message
> news:3c48471b@news.povray.org...
> > I have been considering using Moray as the tool for modeling since it
> allows
> > on to focus on the scene rather than the statements. The idea would be to
> > teach the statements but at each statement show how to do the same thing
> in
> > Moray. I would like to hear opinions on this idea. I have been told the
> most
> > people DO NOT use modeling tools and that mixing up pure pov ray
> statements
> > and a modeling program would be useless for many users. I was thinking the
> > Moray parts would be in gray boxes inside the pages so they could be
> > ignored, but that may still turn some people off. Comments?
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > Mitch
> >
> >

-- 
Current obsession: "Ballet pour ma fille."
http://www.applesnake.net

Post a reply to this message

3c48471b@news.povray.org...
> I have been told the most people DO NOT use modeling tools and that mixing
up pure
> pov ray statements and a modeling program would be useless for many users.
> I was thinking the Moray parts would be in gray boxes inside the pages so
they could be
> ignored, but that may still turn some people off. Comments?

1. From the many past discussions here about modeling tools vs scripting, we
can safely assume that while external modelers can be good products (moray
but also blender, spatch, hamapatch, anim8tor, amapi, rhino etc.), useful
enough for many users (those who don't like to code) and sometimes the only
way to get things done (organic shapes), it's impossible to really unleash
povray's power without learning the scene description language. And some of
the coolest povray stuff is not implemented in these modelers yet. For this
reason, I believe that any useful povray book should focus on the SDL.
Modelers could be part of the book but they should have their own section.

2. I think that editing a book about Povray is a task that requires a good
knowledge of the current state of the software and of the current nature of
its users. It has changed a lot since the pioneer years ! My friendly
suggestion would be that you hang around in these groups for a few months to
get a clearer picture of what people actually need.

G.


--

**********************
http://www.oyonale.com
**********************
- Graphic experiments
- POV-Ray and Poser computer images
- Posters

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Mitchell Waite wrote:
> 
> I have been considering using Moray as the tool for modeling since it allows
> on to focus on the scene rather than the statements. The idea would be to
> teach the statements but at each statement show how to do the same thing in
> Moray. I would like to hear opinions on this idea. I have been told the most
> people DO NOT use modeling tools and that mixing up pure pov ray statements
> and a modeling program would be useless for many users. I was thinking the
> Moray parts would be in gray boxes inside the pages so they could be
> ignored, but that may still turn some people off. Comments?

I think this combination is not a good idea, if someone wants a book on
Povray, he won't like to get one where half the content is only relevant
for those using Moray.  On the other hand a hardcore Moray user would not
be interested in those features of Povray that are not supported by Moray.

Furthermore the structure of a book about Moray would should be quite
different from one about Povray. And of course there are also other
modelers...

So maybe it would be good to add some introductory chapters for different
modelers to a book about Povray, but mixing it into the main stuff would
be quite problematic.

Christoph

-- 
Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmxde>
IsoWood include, radiosity tutorial, TransSkin and other 
things on: http://www.schunter.etc.tu-bs.de/~chris/

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as you know, povray is a raytracer and not a modeller.  most people
don't go very long before they want the capabilities of a modeller, and
povray would not be nearly as cool as it is if you couldn't import stuff
from outside modellers.

i would definitely recommend that you incorporate one or several
chapters that use low-dollar or freeware modellers.  personally, i would
recommend hamapatch and moray.  spatch is not a bad modeller, but
it is no longer under development and hamapatch is considered as good
or better and is actively being improved.

a question:  have you downloaded the 3.5 beta?  if not, you better
quit talking the talk and start walking the walk.  ;-)

good luck with the book.  you have the group's support.

miker


Mitchell Waite <mit### [at] dnaicom> wrote in message
news:3c48471b@news.povray.org...
> I have been considering using Moray as the tool for modeling since it
allows
> on to focus on the scene rather than the statements. The idea would be to
> teach the statements but at each statement show how to do the same thing
in
> Moray. I would like to hear opinions on this idea. I have been told the
most
> people DO NOT use modeling tools and that mixing up pure pov ray
statements
> and a modeling program would be useless for many users. I was thinking the
> Moray parts would be in gray boxes inside the pages so they could be
> ignored, but that may still turn some people off. Comments?
>
> thanks
>
> Mitch
>
>

Post a reply to this message

"Mitchell Waite" <mit### [at] dnaicom> wrote in message
news:3c48471b@news.povray.org...
> mixing up pure pov ray statements and a modeling program would be useless
for many users

What is a modeller?

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While Moray may be the most well know modeler, it is far from the only
one and is in no way required for use of povray. Including it in the book
may give that impression and since Moray is a commercial concern, but povray
is not, I think it would be innappropriate. If they are giving you a
kick-back, nothing will change your mind, but if they are not, how will we
ever know?

    Ethical dilemmas aside, grey boxes with generic modeling advice might be
good, maybe also giving various specific examples of the many available
modelers in rotation.

(example)

    Graph your spline on graph paper and transfer the points into the prism
syntaxt like this... blablah

    <greybox> Most prisms can be made in spline editors which allow youto
...blablah. In Alessandro Falappa's SplininEditor
http://www.flashnet.it/users/fn027571/spil/index.html Turn grid on, click on
the points, save then use "Export > POV" to create an include
file...blablah. </greybox>

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