http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?PAGE=PROFRAME&PROD_ID=15121&fp=T

"3D Render Studio 2000 has the tools to put photorealistic 3-D rendering
within your reach!

State-of-the-art ray tracing software, known as 'POV Ray,' gives you the
design power equal to 3-D applications costing thousands of dollars!

This is professional-quality 3-D rendering software that's already being
used by thousands of 3-D artists worldwide. It also includes Web links to
great 3-D texture libraries and 3-D models.

Render photorealistic images that have accurate lighting, reflections,
textures, shadows, and more. Create single objects or entire 3-D scenes.
Your only limit is your imagination! "

This is obviously a license violation.  Ironically, the price at Overstock
(with its "Best price guarantee") is the highest one I was able to find -
most other sites list it for $10-15.

Anyone know how to reach this "WinGear"?  I don't know how much the POV-Team
goes after violators, but here's the info for them if they feel like talking
to this one.
The CD is also available at these URLs (and surely others):
http://www.e-cdrom.com/3drenstud20j.html
http://previousversion.bizland.com/store/product27.html
http://www.spiritekproducts.com/Cat3drender.htm
http://www.actioncd.com/info.asp?product_id=3DRENDERS2K

-Ed Brannin, POV user since...well, 3.1g (meek look)
brannins at hotmail dotcom
codepoet at livejournal dotcom

Post a reply to this message

In article <3b758dfe$1@news.povray.org> , "Ed Brannin" 
<bra### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:

> This is obviously a license violation.  Ironically, the price at Overstock
> (with its "Best price guarantee") is the highest one I was able to find -
> most other sites list it for $10-15.

Thank you for pointing this out!

However, the POV-Team has been aware of this for some time.  Unfortunately
Wingear exploits all available license loopholes (distribution as part of a
software collection for a limited cost) and the company is nowhere to be
found.  As the license might allow such distribution legally (but
unintentionally) it would be hard to contact the distributors and ask them
to discontinue selling it based on this vague part of the license.  The
POV-Ray 3.5 license will include provisions that makes such distributions
clearly illegal.

    Thorsten

(speaking for myself only based on my memory of the discussion in the team,
not for the POV-Team!)

Post a reply to this message

yeah, I tried to go to wingear.com (by using the Win98 Run box and typing
"iexplore www.wingear.com") and was confused when a few moments later, there
were 3 new windows open with porn-titles.

> Wingear ... is nowhere to be found.

grrrrr.  Bad WinGear.

Post a reply to this message

Just submitted the following 'product review' at www.overstock.com

Thank you, your review has been submitted and is pending approval. Once
approved, your review will be placed on site within seven business days.

How do you rate this product (1..5 stars):
1 star(s)
Reviewer's first name:
DOJ
Reviewer's location (city/state/country):
Washington/DC/USA
Your review:
POV Ray is available for FREE at www.povray.org

3D Render Studio's use of POV Ray may be in violation of the POV Ray
distribution license. Be aware!



Jim




"Ed Brannin" <bra### [at] hotmailcom> wrote in message
news:3b758dfe$1@news.povray.org...
> http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?PAGE=PROFRAME&PROD_ID=15121&fp=T
>
> "3D Render Studio 2000 has the tools to put photorealistic 3-D rendering
> within your reach!
>
> State-of-the-art ray tracing software, known as 'POV Ray,' gives you the
> design power equal to 3-D applications costing thousands of dollars!
>
> This is professional-quality 3-D rendering software that's already being
> used by thousands of 3-D artists worldwide. It also includes Web links to
> great 3-D texture libraries and 3-D models.
>
> Render photorealistic images that have accurate lighting, reflections,
> textures, shadows, and more. Create single objects or entire 3-D scenes.
> Your only limit is your imagination! "
>
> This is obviously a license violation.  Ironically, the price at Overstock
> (with its "Best price guarantee") is the highest one I was able to find -
> most other sites list it for $10-15.
>
> Anyone know how to reach this "WinGear"?  I don't know how much the
POV-Team
> goes after violators, but here's the info for them if they feel like
talking
> to this one.
> The CD is also available at these URLs (and surely others):
> http://www.e-cdrom.com/3drenstud20j.html
> http://previousversion.bizland.com/store/product27.html
> http://www.spiritekproducts.com/Cat3drender.htm
> http://www.actioncd.com/info.asp?product_id=3DRENDERS2K
>
> -Ed Brannin, POV user since...well, 3.1g (meek look)
> brannins at hotmail dotcom
> codepoet at livejournal dotcom
>
>

Post a reply to this message

Jim Kress wrote:
> 
> Just submitted the following 'product review' at www.overstock.com

I also submitted a review, but I don't trust Overstock.com (whoever the
hell they are) either.  Looking at the side frame, there's a whole host
of Wingear shit for sale.

-- 
David Fontaine  <dav### [at] faricynet>  ICQ 55354965
My raytracing gallery:  http://davidf.faricy.net/

Post a reply to this message

Jim Kress wrote:
> 
> Just submitted the following 'product review' at www.overstock.com
> 
> Thank you, your review has been submitted and is pending approval. Once
> approved, your review will be placed on site within seven business days.
> 
> How do you rate this product (1..5 stars):
> 1 star(s)
> Reviewer's first name:
> DOJ
> Reviewer's location (city/state/country):
> Washington/DC/USA
> Your review:
> POV Ray is available for FREE at www.povray.org
> 
> 3D Render Studio's use of POV Ray may be in violation of the POV Ray
> distribution license. Be aware!
> 
> Jim

Here's mine, to be censored in the next minutes (5 stars):
This product is a commercial re-packaging of an excellent free software,
which comes as a copyright violation.
It will include no support, will become obsolete as soon as the genuine
thing gets updated, and things will get worse when the sellers will be
prosecuted.
Get the right thing, get POV-Ray!

Well, it seems that the good old license problems come under another
light here.

-- 
François DISPOT  --  http://www.wozzeck.net
      __  __ __  __  _
|  | /  \  /  / |_  /  |/
\/\/ \__/ /_ /_ |__ \_ |\

Post a reply to this message

For some reason I have the impression that the text "Only 3 unit(s) left!
This item will sell out soon." is just a lie to try to sell more.

-- 
#macro N(D,I)#if(I<6)cylinder{M()#local D[I]=div(D[I],104);M().5,2pigment{
rgb M()}}N(D,(D[I]>99?I:I+1))#end#end#macro M()<mod(D[I],13)-6,mod(div(D[I
],13),8)-3,10>#end blob{N(array[6]{11117333955,
7382340,3358,3900569407,970,4254934330},0)}//                     - Warp -

Post a reply to this message

>   For some reason I have the impression that the text "Only 3 unit(s)
left!
> This item will sell out soon." is just a lie to try to sell more.

if you look around the whole site only have around 50 cd's :)


--
Rick

Kitty5 WebDesign - http://Kitty5.com
Hi-Impact database driven web site design & e-commerce
TEL : +44 (01625) 266358 - FAX : +44 (01625) 611913 - ICQ : 15776037
POV-Ray News & Resources - http://Povray.co.uk

PGP Public Key
http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x231E1CEA

Post a reply to this message

David Fontaine wrote:
> 
> I also submitted a review, but I don't trust Overstock.com (whoever the
> hell they are) either.  Looking at the side frame, there's a whole host
> of Wingear shit for sale.

Disclaimer: *I am not a lawyer*

If they post the reviews at all, it would probably be on Monday, which
is tomorrow when their employees would come back from the weekend.  I
wonder if they would post such negative reviews of their actions.  If
they show up, the posting might be automatic.

Povlegal says that a 600 meg cd with pov on it must cost no more that
$48.00 or eight cents per meg.  Maybe they raised the price by just
compressing some stuff before burning or pressing it onto the cd and
used the uncompressed file sizes to figure the price.  I wonder where
they got that $99.50 retail price.  Maybe they figured it from the
uncompressed size and reduced it to make it look like a good deal when
it is not since povray is free.  Povray just can't fill a cd.  The links
to the "texture libraries and 3d models" would have to be numerous. 
Maybe they added a modeler to fill up space.  The only way to tell is to
get one of these cd, or better yet, ask someone who did since it's not a
good idea to support them.

It is possible that they are software pirates?

Brendan

Post a reply to this message

"Ed Brannin" <bra### [at] hotmailcom> wrote...
> http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?PAGE=PROFRAME&PROD_ID=15121&fp=T
>
> "3D Render Studio 2000 has the tools to put photorealistic 3-D rendering
> within your reach!

> This is obviously a license violation.  Ironically, the price at Overstock
> (with its "Best price guarantee") is the highest one I was able to find -
> most other sites list it for $10-15.

> Anyone know how to reach this "WinGear"?  I don't know how much the
POV-Team
> goes after violators, but here's the info for them if they feel like
talking
> to this one.

As Thorsten pointed out, we've had trouble locating WinGear.  Also note that
this CD includes a SHAREWARE version of Moray!  I would suspect that the
texture and model libraries were also downloaded off the net for free.

-Nathan

Post a reply to this message

Thanks for the report.

As Thorsten pointed out, we are aware of this situation. I in fact even
have a copy of the very CD here in my bookshelf, having swapped it for a
copy of the IRTC CDROM with a chap who reported it to me earlier this year.

We have been unable to find Wingear. I have a strong suspicion that they
don't want to be found ...

Insofar as the selling price is concerned, based on the fact that I have
seen the CD on sale for as little as US$5.50 with some online vendors, I
came to the conclusion that the wholesale price (i.e. what Wingear gets)
is probably just barely within POVLEGAL's cents/megabyte limit (and could
be the reason that they dumped the textures on the CD as well; to make it
a bit bigger).

This means that under the existing povlegal, we can't go after Wingear
themselves; we'd have to chase the individual vendors (and it's even
doubtful if we could do that - I'd have to check the language and see if
it applies to a reseller).

Apart from Moray, I also notice that they have an unattributed partial copy
of Ken's Links List (as taken from www.povray.org/links) on the CD, edited
to remove the povray banner and any reference to our website.

Needless to say, we have made a significant change to POVLEGAL to outlaw
what they have done, and to explicitly include resellers in the rules.

-- Chris

Post a reply to this message

"Chris Cason" <newsadmin@-despam-povray.org> a écrit dans le message news:
>
> Apart from Moray, I also notice that they have an unattributed partial
copy
> of Ken's Links List (as taken from www.povray.org/links) on the CD, edited
> to remove the povray banner and any reference to our website.

That is a copyright infringement (Ken's copyright), at the very least,
regardless of POV-Ray's specific license issues.

Aren't there any images or sources ?

You could maybe publish a directory listing of the whole content, for
us to check.

Fabien.

Post a reply to this message

> You could maybe publish a directory listing of the whole content, for
> us to check.

http://www.povray.org/temp/3DRS-Listing.txt

-- Chris

Post a reply to this message

What is the main difference between this and other "shareware" CD's which
have POV-Ray on it?
I have some old versions on this kind of CD's and also with magazines &
books.

If you make a shareware compilation and distribute this on a CD'R, you can
technically make up a price for it, although you probably should ask the
developer considering copyrights...
Anyway, sounds like a ripoff and needs to be tackled.

I have my legal version from povray.org :-)

 --- stefkeB ---

"Chris Cason" <newsadmin@-despam-povray.org> wrote in message
news:3b77e12d@news.povray.org...
> > You could maybe publish a directory listing of the whole content, for
> > us to check.
>
> http://www.povray.org/temp/3DRS-Listing.txt
>
> -- Chris
>
>

Post a reply to this message

Co-incidentally, I just received an email from a user who purchased this CD
from a seller called 'cyberspy.tv' on ebay (who seems to have a habit of
selling this sort of thing). Same story; he expected a commercial product
and was surprised to find out he'd 'purchased' (for $7.99) a free program.

Sigh.

-- Chris

Post a reply to this message

stefkeB wrote:
> 
> What is the main difference between this and other "shareware" CD's which
> have POV-Ray on it?

This one pretends the product is commercial, and of professionnal
quality (read Warp's message in above thread "History of POV-Ray"
for why POV-Ray is not professional, and not ashamed of that).

Also, the pricing is outrageous, and it is sold by a company that
uses dubious selling methods (as someone noted in this thread,
all items are "almost sold out").

They don't say that POV-Ray is free, and they charge way more than
the limit authorized in the license (the can't be wronged on that,
because they're a reseller). Basically, they've done all they could
to get the maximum amount of money without infringing on the license
(which will be updated accordingly in POV 3.5).

> I have some old versions on this kind of CD's and also with magazines &
> books.

Me too. But they all state clearly that POV is free and the amount
paid only covers CD manufacturing & handling costs. And their low pricing
clearly marks them as "not professional".

> If you make a shareware compilation and distribute this on a CD'R, you can
> technically make up a price for it, although you probably should ask the
> developer considering copyrights...

POV-Ray is much more advanced than that. Read the license
that accompanies the software, it covers what you mention.
To summarize, there's a limit on the price you can charge,
per megabyte of data on the CD.

-- 
Adrien Beau - adr### [at] freefr - http://adrien.beau.free.fr
 Mes propos n'engagent que moi et en aucun cas mes employeurs

Post a reply to this message

Chris Cason wrote:

> Co-incidentally, I just received an email from a user who purchased this CD
> from a seller called 'cyberspy.tv' on ebay (who seems to have a habit of
> selling this sort of thing). Same story; he expected a commercial product
> and was surprised to find out he'd 'purchased' (for $7.99) a free program.
>
> Sigh.
>
> -- Chris

I hope he will file a complaint with ebay about that transaction. Did he say
who the seller was?


--
Josh English
eng### [at] spiritonecom
The POV-Ray Cyclopedia http://www.spiritone.com/~english/cyclopedia/

Post a reply to this message

Fabien Mosen wrote:
> 
> That is a copyright infringement (Ken's copyright), at the very least,
> regardless of POV-Ray's specific license issues.

Speaking of copyright infringement, I got an email today soliciting me
to pay to have my website submitted to 300,000+ search engines.  Mistake
number one, the subject line was all caps.  Mistake number two, it was
in HTML.  And so on.  It included at the bottom a stupid image map of a
big magnet pulling little people towards my site, with this illegal
image right in the middle of it:

http://image10.trafficmagnet.net/image1671/5/9/img286.jpg

I replied and told them to remove the image, that I don't want their
stupid service, and that I found much of their solicitating email in
poor taste.

-- 
David Fontaine  <dav### [at] faricynet>  ICQ 55354965
My raytracing gallery:  http://davidf.faricy.net/

Post a reply to this message

What is this?  It is for Moray?

14/02/00   2:57           2,215  OrderForm.txt

Are there different versions of povlegal.doc?  The copy I have here is
21,523 bytes as opposed to the 18,554 bytes for their copy.  Is the file
intact?  Is the manual's reference to the news group and povlegal
intact?

17/10/98   2:00          18,554  povlegal.doc

Brendan

Post a reply to this message

Chris Cason wrote:
>
> http://www.povray.org/temp/3DRS-Listing.txt

Looks like they took the textures from this site.
http://www.grsites.com/textures/


_____________
Kari Kivisalo

Post a reply to this message

> It is possible that they are software pirates?

Even software pirates do not try to sell freeware.

Post a reply to this message

David Fontaine wrote:

> I replied and told them to remove the image, that I don't want their
> stupid service, and that I found much of their solicitating email in
> poor taste.

All you accomplished by doing that is confirming for them that they
have found an active e-mail address. The will never stop sending you
spam now.

-- 
Ken Tyler

Post a reply to this message

Chris Cason wrote:
> 
> Co-incidentally, I just received an email from a user who purchased this CD
> from a seller called 'cyberspy.tv' on ebay (who seems to have a habit of
> selling this sort of thing). Same story; he expected a commercial product
> and was surprised to find out he'd 'purchased' (for $7.99) a free program.
> 
> Sigh.

My first copy of POV-Ray v3.01 came from a $12 shareware CD. I was happy
to pay it :)

-- 
Ken Tyler

Post a reply to this message

Ken wrote:
> 
> > I replied and told them to remove the image, that I don't want their
> > stupid service, and that I found much of their solicitating email in
> > poor taste.
> 
> All you accomplished by doing that is confirming for them that they
> have found an active e-mail address. The will never stop sending you
> spam now.

Yeah, well, if it gets too bad the faricy.net server-side spam filters
should get it.

-- 
David Fontaine  <dav### [at] faricynet>  ICQ 55354965
My raytracing gallery:  http://davidf.faricy.net/

Post a reply to this message

> 21,523 bytes as opposed to the 18,554 bytes for their copy.  Is the file
> intact?  Is the manual's reference to the news group and povlegal
> intact?
>
> 17/10/98   2:00          18,554  povlegal.doc

It's the v3.01 POVLEGAL.

-- Chris

Post a reply to this message

"Chris Cason" <newsadmin@-despam-povray.org> wrote in message
news:3b77bf6d@news.povray.org...
> Thanks for the report.
>
> As Thorsten pointed out, we are aware of this situation. I in fact even
> have a copy of the very CD here in my bookshelf, having swapped it for a
> copy of the IRTC CDROM with a chap who reported it to me earlier this year.
>
> We have been unable to find Wingear. I have a strong suspicion that they
> don't want to be found ...
>

Maybe the following can produce some sor of lead ....



A web search for Wingear products produces a long list of many, many
discount sellers. It looks very much like Wingear is out of buisness and
these sellers have picked up 'remaindered' CDs. Companies all over the
U.S., Europe, etc. can be found selling Wingear CDs.

It's not just the graphics CD - I found one list of Wingear products
comprising approx. 40 different titles.

The State of Florida Secretary of State's office has a web page that
can be searched for any number of businesses - corps, partnerships,
single proprietors, etc. (and those companies active and inactive that
owe debts). Wingear is not to be found there.

Wingear  does appear to have a P.O. Box in Boca Raton, Fla. US
and a phone number. Have no idea if these are good.

PO Box 273362
Boca Raton, FL 33427
US
954-750-8880

The local post office will release the name of the renter of that box.
required by US federal law for boxes rented by businesses.

HOWEVER - since the current wingear.com is now a porno site, it is
very likely someone picked up the domain name (or bought it) from
Wingear Publishing.

sysgo.com provides dns for the current wingear.com

They may know something about Wingear Publishing, or it may be a
lead to what happened to them.

Oh - sysgo IS wingear

same PO Box, address and phone number

the contact for the websites is given as clk### [at] mindspringcom

I believe Wingear is very probably out of business and the
current owners of wingear.com are unrelated parties.

The current wingear and sysgo domains were assigned their netblocks by

DIAMOND NET INC
11 NW 20th ST
Boca Raton, Fl 33431
US

contact: Mark McConnell  561-392-1981

Post a reply to this message

> > I replied and told them to remove the image, that I don't want their
> > stupid service, and that I found much of their solicitating email in
> > poor taste.
> 
> All you accomplished by doing that is confirming for them that they
> have found an active e-mail address. The will never stop sending you
> spam now.

Not necessarily. Someone on CNET conducted an experiment recently
which apparently showed that replying to the opt-out messages isn't as
risky as one might think:

 
http://www.cnet.com/software/0-3227888-8-6602372-5.html?tag=st.sw.3227888-8-6602372-1.txt.3227888-8-6602372-5

In the past I've never replied to spam myself but after reading the
above page I'm beginning to change my mind. It actually seems to work
sometimes.

-- 
Ole Laursen
http://sunsite.dk/olau/

Post a reply to this message

> My first copy of POV-Ray v3.01 came from a $12 shareware CD. I was happy
> to pay it :)

My first pov was on a shareware floppy at a wholesome 25p :)


--
Rick

Kitty5 WebDesign - http://Kitty5.com
Hi-Impact database driven web site design & e-commerce
TEL : +44 (01625) 266358 - FAX : +44 (01625) 611913 - ICQ : 15776037
POV-Ray News & Resources - http://Povray.co.uk

PGP Public Key
http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x231E1CEA

Post a reply to this message

> A web search for Wingear products produces a long list of many, many
> discount sellers. It looks very much like Wingear is out of buisness and
> these sellers have picked up 'remaindered' CDs. Companies all over the
> U.S., Europe, etc. can be found selling Wingear CDs.

This is indeed possible.

> It's not just the graphics CD - I found one list of Wingear products
> comprising approx. 40 different titles.

Yeah, they are fairly prolific. Comments I have seen using google news
search indicate that they seem to have the habit of throwing together
freely-available resources and selling them as a 'suite' of some sort.

> Wingear  does appear to have a P.O. Box in Boca Raton, Fla. US
> and a phone number. Have no idea if these are good.

Where'd you get this info from ? I never came across a PO box so you're
one up on me.

> HOWEVER - since the current wingear.com is now a porno site, it is
> very likely someone picked up the domain name (or bought it) from
> Wingear Publishing.

That's assuming that wingear ever owned the domain (or that they had a web
site). Who knows, maybe they even wanted the cash from the porno ads ;)

> Oh - sysgo IS wingear
>
> same PO Box, address and phone number

ah, very interesting ...

> I believe Wingear is very probably out of business and the
> current owners of wingear.com are unrelated parties.

Or that WinGear never existed, as such, and was just a front for sysgo. Note
that the cover of the CD-ROM states 'copyright 2000/2001 WinGear Publishing'.
This is not an old CD !

FWIW, I noticed that on the CD, it claims that '3d render studio 2000 and
the Wingear logo are registered trade marks of WinGear Publishing'.

To claim something is a registered trade mark when it is not is, I believe,
an offense under US law, so I checked the USPTO site for a registration for
the product name (no go) or anything else registered to a firm called 'WinGear'
(no go). However, I am not 100% familiar with their search tool so don't take
that as a statement that there is no such registration; just that I couldn't
find one (or that all of their marks expired - hardly likely given the date
of the CD).

Note that getting a RTM is expensive (I think at least US$2000), and it doesn't
make a lot of sense for a CD that they sell for maybe US$4.50 ...

-- Chris

Post a reply to this message

> Wingear  does appear to have a P.O. Box in Boca Raton, Fla. US
> and a phone number. Have no idea if these are good.
>
> PO Box 273362
> Boca Raton, FL 33427
> US
> 954-750-8880

BTW if this is just taken from the WHOIS record, please ignore my
request for where you got it from :). I was already aware of the
whois record, but chose to ignore it because there was no clear
connection between the name 'wingear.com' and 'wingear publishing'.

There are porno operators out there who have a habit of snapping up
domain names of popular product keywords, even if they have no
relationship to them.

-- Chris

Post a reply to this message

Ken wrote:
> 
> David Fontaine wrote:
> 
> > I replied and told them to remove the image, that I don't want their
> > stupid service, and that I found much of their solicitating email in
> > poor taste.
> 
> All you accomplished by doing that is confirming for them that they
> have found an active e-mail address. The will never stop sending you
> spam now.

They probably took the address from the whois database, which is public
(I just received the same ad concerning wozzeck.net). And I don't think
that anybody would leave a false or out of date address to his
registrar...
-- 
François DISPOT  --  http://www.wozzeck.net
      __  __ __  __  _
|  | /  \  /  / |_  /  |/
\/\/ \__/ /_ /_ |__ \_ |\

Post a reply to this message

"Chris Cason" <newsadmin@-despam-povray.org> wrote in message
news:3b793de0@news.povray.org...
> > Wingear  does appear to have a P.O. Box in Boca Raton, Fla. US
> > and a phone number. Have no idea if these are good.
> >
> > PO Box 273362
> > Boca Raton, FL 33427
> > US
> > 954-750-8880
>
> BTW if this is just taken from the WHOIS record, please ignore my
> request for where you got it from :). I was already aware of the
> whois record, but chose to ignore it because there was no clear
> connection between the name 'wingear.com' and 'wingear publishing'.
>
> There are porno operators out there who have a habit of snapping up
> domain names of popular product keywords, even if they have no
> relationship to them.
>
> -- Chris
>

One of the sites offering Wingear CDs had a link to Wingear Publishing.
That link was wingear.com.

Post a reply to this message

"Chris Cason" <newsadmin@-despam-povray.org> wrote in message
news:3b793a30@news.povray.org...
> FWIW, I noticed that on the CD, it claims that '3d render studio 2000 and
> the Wingear logo are registered trade marks of WinGear Publishing'.
>
> To claim something is a registered trade mark when it is not is, I believe,
> an offense under US law, so I checked the USPTO site for a registration for
> the product name (no go) or anything else registered to a firm called
'WinGear'
> (no go). However, I am not 100% familiar with their search tool so don't take
> that as a statement that there is no such registration; just that I couldn't
> find one (or that all of their marks expired - hardly likely given the date
> of the CD).
>
> Note that getting a RTM is expensive (I think at least US$2000), and it
doesn't
> make a lot of sense for a CD that they sell for maybe US$4.50 ...
>

at www.uspto.gov there are two Wingear listings - one live and one dead.

The CD producers seem to be using someone else's tm.

LIVE: http://tess.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=doc&state=f3ailu.3.1

Word Mark WINGEAR
Goods and Services IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S:
  testing, measuring, inspecting, and evaluation software, namely,
  for testing, measuring, inspecting, and evaluation of gears,
  double-flank gear roll performance, measuring, inspecting and
  testing for anomalies or damage to gears and gear teeth,
  dimensions, radial run-out and gear tooth-to-tooth variations.
  FIRST USE: 19970715. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19970715
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 75194509
Filing Date November 7, 1996
Filed ITU FILED AS ITU
Published for Opposition April 21, 1998
Registration Number 2289213
Registration Date October 26, 1999
Owner (REGISTRANT)
   Mahr GmbH, Brauweg
   38 CORPORATION FED REP GERMANY
    D-37073 Gottingen FED REP GERMANY
Attorney of Record STEPHEN H FRISHAUF
Section 44 Indicator SECT44
Priority Date August 23, 1996
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE

DEAD: http://tess.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=doc&state=f3ailu.3.2

Word Mark WINGEAR
Goods and Services (EXPIRED) IC 007. US 023. G & S:
 WORM GEAR SPEED REDUCERS AND GEARMOTORS.
 FIRST USE: 19760901. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19760901
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 73105030
Filing Date November 1, 1976
Registration Number 1072541
Registration Date September 6, 1977
Owner (REGISTRANT)
  UMC INDUSTRIES, INC.
  CORPORATION DELAWARE
  72 WALL ST. NEW YORK
  NEW YORK 10005
Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR).
Live/Dead Indicator DEAD

Post a reply to this message

On 14 Aug 2001 10:54:00 +0200, Ole Laursen wrote:
>> > I replied and told them to remove the image, that I don't want their
>> > stupid service, and that I found much of their solicitating email in
>> > poor taste.
>> 
>> All you accomplished by doing that is confirming for them that they
>> have found an active e-mail address. The will never stop sending you
>> spam now.
>
>Not necessarily. Someone on CNET conducted an experiment recently
>which apparently showed that replying to the opt-out messages isn't as
>risky as one might think:
>
> 
http://www.cnet.com/software/0-3227888-8-6602372-5.html?tag=st.sw.3227888-8-6602372-1.txt.3227888-8-6602372-5
>
>In the past I've never replied to spam myself but after reading the
>above page I'm beginning to change my mind. It actually seems to work
>sometimes.

I must say that I've found it to work quite well. 

--
Cheers
Steve              email mailto:ste### [at] zeroppsuklinuxnet

%HAV-A-NICEDAY Error not enough coffee  0 pps. 

web http://www.zeropps.uklinux.net/

or  http://start.at/zero-pps

 10:17pm  up 32 days, 20 min,  2 users,  load average: 1.00, 1.02, 1.00

Post a reply to this message

Chris Cason <newsadmin@-despam-povray.org> wrote:
: To claim something is a registered trade mark when it is not is, I believe,
: an offense under US law

  Isn't there any way of reporting this kind of crime without having to go
through all the trouble of hiring an expensive lawyer and so on?
  If there isn't, there should be. In the same way as you can report
confidentially piracy in companies to BSA and they take care of that without
you having to get involved in anything.

-- 
#macro N(D,I)#if(I<6)cylinder{M()#local D[I]=div(D[I],104);M().5,2pigment{
rgb M()}}N(D,(D[I]>99?I:I+1))#end#end#macro M()<mod(D[I],13)-6,mod(div(D[I
],13),8)-3,10>#end blob{N(array[6]{11117333955,
7382340,3358,3900569407,970,4254934330},0)}//                     - Warp -

Post a reply to this message

pan### [at] syixcom wrote:
> 
> State of Florida

If they're in Florida, they can do whatever they want.

-- 
David Fontaine  <dav### [at] faricynet>  ICQ 55354965
My raytracing gallery:  http://davidf.faricy.net/

Post a reply to this message

David Fontaine wrote:

> >If they're in Florida, they can do whatever they want.

Snow skiing might be a bit out of range, but other than that...

Post a reply to this message

"Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote in message news:3b79a8a9@news.povray.org...
>   Isn't there any way of reporting this kind of crime without having to go
> through all the trouble of hiring an expensive lawyer and so on?

My understanding is that the USPTO gets quite cross when folks claim they have
a mark when they don't. I believe they have prosecuted before. The fact that
the claimed mark is being used in a barely-legal venture by a company that
doesn't seem to want to be found could probably also help.

-- Chris

Post a reply to this message

> at www.uspto.gov there are two Wingear listings - one live and one dead.

yes, it's fair to say I didn't search for those, only for ones owned by
a company called 'WinGear', or the '3d Render Studio 2000' mark.

It's possible (under trademark law) for Wingear Publishing to call themselves
this without violating the WinGear trademark, provided that they are in a
different industry. Whether they are or aren't depends on whether WinGear
claim to be a software company or a CD-ROM compilation maker ...

Note that they do not claim a mark on the word 'WinGear' itself, only on the
'WinGear Logo' and '3d Render Studio 2000'.

-- Chris

Post a reply to this message

> Owner (REGISTRANT)
>    Mahr GmbH, Brauweg
>    38 CORPORATION FED REP GERMANY
>     D-37073 Gottingen FED REP GERMANY

www.fedgage.com. They're in Providence, RI.

> Attorney of Record STEPHEN H FRISHAUF

54 Riverside Drive
Suite 6C
New York NY  10024
212-873-6687

:)

-- Chris

Post a reply to this message

in news:3b7a7c3d@news.povray.org Chris Cason wrote:

>> Owner (REGISTRANT)
>>    Mahr GmbH, Brauweg
>>    38 CORPORATION FED REP GERMANY
>>     D-37073 Gottingen FED REP GERMANY
> 
> www.fedgage.com. They're in Providence, RI.
> 

Mahr GmbH is a big name in metrology www.mahr.com 


Ingo

-- 
Photography: http://members.home.nl/ingoogni/
Pov-Ray    : http://members.home.nl/seed7/

Post a reply to this message

"Chris Cason" <newsadmin@-despam-povray.org> wrote in message
news:3b7a7530@news.povray.org...
> > at www.uspto.gov there are two Wingear listings - one live and one dead.
>
> yes, it's fair to say I didn't search for those, only for ones owned by
> a company called 'WinGear', or the '3d Render Studio 2000' mark.
>

TESS searches in a case insensitive manner and produces results whether it's
a word mark or other. I.E., 'WinGear' == 'wingear' as far as TESS cares.

> It's possible (under trademark law) for Wingear Publishing to call themselves
> this without violating the WinGear trademark, provided that they are in a
> different industry. Whether they are or aren't depends on whether WinGear
> claim to be a software company or a CD-ROM compilation maker ...
>

Yes -searching other countries trademark databases (if they exist and are
publically accessible) would be good, but if they claima U.S. tm they will
be reachable through TESS regardless of whether multiple tm for different
categories have been issued. The catergory is part of the records I posted.
You can search at TESS and find examples of multiple registrations for
identical marks in different categories.

> Note that they do not claim a mark on the word 'WinGear' itself, only on the
> 'WinGear Logo' and '3d Render Studio 2000'.
>

In that case then there does not exist a U.S. tm for a WinGear Logo or the
3d Render Studio 200. Might be foreign registry or might not be trademarked
at all.

Some social engineering might be called for at this point - call one of the many
many current distributors of WinGear CDs and ask after the source. The CDs
come from someone, somewhere. With the large number of distributors there
might be one willing to share where they come from.

"Go to the taxi stand at the corner whereby the large red bearded man waits
holding
a turquoise bumbershoot. Ask him about high tide in Singapore and why Mrs.
Birtuple
slew the cocky robin."

Post a reply to this message

Heh - today I saw one of their CD's full of emulators.  I was laughing to
myself about the fact that everything on there was free, when the
salesperson came up and told me that everything on there was free :)  They
advertised the ability to "instantly download and play thousands of arcade
games"... what they don't say is that in many cases it is illegal.  But that
doesn't seem to bother them.

...Chambers

Post a reply to this message

> However, the POV-Team has been aware of this for some time.  Unfortunately
> Wingear exploits all available license loopholes (distribution as part of a
> software collection for a limited cost) and the company is nowhere to be
> found.  As the license might allow such distribution legally (but
> unintentionally) it would be hard to contact the distributors and ask them
> to discontinue selling it based on this vague part of the license.  The
> POV-Ray 3.5 license will include provisions that makes such distributions
> clearly illegal.
> 

Do they know that the POV-Team is aware of their shadily deals?  Will
the new provisions specifically disallow Wingear from doing such things
like PC Format did?  Or will there be general provisions that cover this
type of activity?
Brendan

Post a reply to this message

Ben Chambers <bdc### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
: instantly download

  Wow! So do they supply a 1GBit internet connection?

-- 
#macro N(D,I)#if(I<6)cylinder{M()#local D[I]=div(D[I],104);M().5,2pigment{
rgb M()}}N(D,(D[I]>99?I:I+1))#end#end#macro M()<mod(D[I],13)-6,mod(div(D[I
],13),8)-3,10>#end blob{N(array[6]{11117333955,
7382340,3358,3900569407,970,4254934330},0)}//                     - Warp -

Post a reply to this message

Now they say that they don't have any more in stock and that they have
only three more left.  3 != 0 !!!
Brendan

Post a reply to this message