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We are getting close to being ready to accept images for the 10best
collection.� I wanted feedback on a proposed format for tutorials.� I
proposed perhaps too stringent a list earlier, here is a revised one:
1)� Make your tutorial mainly HTML files but with embedded or links to
supporting JPG's and/or TXT's (or infrequent ZIP's. )
2)� No size limit, but no guarantee that less useful tuts make it to a
crowded disk.
3)� Make it look good for someone who has an 800 x 600 screen (that's
21% of us povers!)
4)� No frames.
5)� Plan for a table to be at the top or bottom which will be inserted
by the CD designer to allow navigation buttons, etc., to go to next tut,
back to main page, etc.
6)� Please make all your file names long and cryptic.� For example, make
it� gmj1905b.html and gmj1905ef.jpg.� Please no media.html, fog1.jpg,
julia.html,� etc.� The files will eventually be unzipped and may end up
dumped into the same directory.
7)� The CD will very unlikely just offer a jumble of zipped files like
say p.b.t., we aim to make it more easy to use.
8)� Let's adopt a common standard for differentiation between
explanatory text and pov code.� What should this be?� <CODE>, <PRE><TT>,
switch from Arial to Courier??
�
10best update:
Contest of "10 best things":���� 20 participants indicating yes on
survey
Your 10 best images collection:� 38
Tutorials:���������������������� 10
http://10best.ratrace.com/10best.html
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"Greg M. Johnson" wrote:
> [...]
> 6) Please make all your file names long and cryptic. For example, make
> it gmj1905b.html and gmj1905ef.jpg. Please no media.html, fog1.jpg,
> julia.html, etc. The files will eventually be unzipped and may end up
> dumped into the same directory.
I'm not sure if that's a good idea - if someone wants to copy a single
tutorial somewhere, it would be a horrible work to collect all the files.
I would suggest either one directory for every tutorial or the same
starting letters for the filenames belonging to one tutorial (like you
already implied with your example).
> 8) Let's adopt a common standard for differentiation between
> explanatory text and pov code. What should this be? <CODE>, <PRE><TT>,
> switch from Arial to Courier??
IMO '<PRE>' and maybe a standardized syntax highlighting scheme for POV
code would be good.
Christoph
--
Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmx de>
Homepage: http://www.schunter.etc.tu-bs.de/~chris/
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Greg M. Johnson <"gregj;-"@aol.c;-om> wrote in message
<3a115b01@news.povray.org>...
>6) Please make all your file names long and cryptic. For example, make
>it gmj1905b.html and gmj1905ef.jpg. Please no media.html, fog1.jpg,
>julia.html, etc. The files will eventually be unzipped and may end up
>dumped into the same directory.
and some platforms have problems with directories with a lot of entries
ABX
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<code> is mosy widely used for code examples...
Zilvah
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Teach me.�� You're saying a problem with too many items in one directory?
Like how many is a problem?
Wlodzimierz ABX Skiba wrote:
> Greg M. Johnson <"gregj;-"@aol.c;-om> wrote in message
> <3a115b01@news.povray.org>...
> >6) Please make all your file names long and cryptic. For example, make
> >it gmj1905b.html and gmj1905ef.jpg. Please no media.html, fog1.jpg,
> >julia.html, etc. The files will eventually be unzipped and may end up
> >dumped into the same directory.
>
> and some platforms have problems with directories with a lot of entries
>
> ABX
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In article <3a11695c@news.povray.org> , "Zilvah" <zil### [at] onlineno> wrote:
> <code> is mosy widely used for code examples...
<pre> is used in the POV-Ray User Manual.
Thorsten
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Greg M. Johnson <"gregj;-()"@aol.c;-()om> wrote:
: 6) Please make all your file names long and cryptic. For example, make
: it gmj1905b.html and gmj1905ef.jpg. Please no media.html, fog1.jpg,
: julia.html, etc. The files will eventually be unzipped and may end up
: dumped into the same directory.
This idea sounds completely crazy to me.
--
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):_;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/
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In article <3a12658e@news.povray.org>, Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg>
wrote:
> This idea sounds completely crazy to me.
I agree...purposely make it impossible to tell what files belong to what
tutorials and what their purpose is? Each tutorial should live in it's
own folder, all of these folders could be put in the same place. Then
you don't have to worry about file names, just folder names.
--
Christopher James Huff
Personal: chr### [at] maccom, http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
TAG: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg, http://tag.povray.org/
<><
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Chris Huff wrote:
> In article <3a12658e@news.povray.org>, Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg>
> wrote:
>
> > This idea sounds completely crazy to me.
>
> I agree...purposely make it impossible to tell what files belong to what
> tutorials and what their purpose is? Each tutorial should live in it's
> own folder, all of these folders could be put in the same place. Then
> you don't have to worry about file names, just folder names.
Let's back up one question.
I'd like the collection to look something much more like the povray webring
than say povray.binaries.tutorials. I'd like it to be linked HTML pages
rather than a collection of ZIP files.
Q1: Is the opposition to this proposal based on an assumption of a pile of
ZIP's? IMO, if we go with a pile of ZIP's (even in own subdirectories),
let's just stick with p.b.t., as the CD will offer no value-add to anyone.
I'm just thinking suppose we end up with 100 separate tuts. It is going to
be difficult for the person who wants to "get at" the information by a means
other than the official HTML paths, regardless of 100 subdirectories or
100*(2 to 10) files in one big directory. I'm thinking that it will be a
much bigger pain to write the CD if there are 100 subdirectories, with
little value add to the user.
Q2: Isn't this similar to the IRTC rewriting your carefully chosen file
names to suit its purposes, as it dumps everything into one folder, no?
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Greg M. Johnson <"gregj;-"@aol.c;-om> wrote in message
<3a117063$1@news.povray.org>...
>Teach me. You're saying a problem with too many items in one directory?
>Like how many is a problem?
I don't know how many exactly but I remember from DOS and Windows 3.1
that about 2000 entries in directory slow system down dramatically
perhaps this is not limitation but reading method but
what I want to say that povray philosophy is to be platform independent
and as long there is dos version of povray
you shouldn't use long filenames in your cdrom project
(I know 10Best isn't IRTC but look at
http://www.irtc.org/stills/rules.html at 4.f
they point to ISO restrictions)
ABX
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Wlodzimierz ABX Skiba wrote:
> Greg M. Johnson <"gregj;-"@aol.c;-om> wrote in message
> <3a117063$1@news.povray.org>...
> >Teach me. You're saying a problem with too many items in one directory?
> >Like how many is a problem?
>
> I don't know how many exactly but I remember from DOS and Windows 3.1
> that about 2000 entries in directory slow system down dramatically
> perhaps this is not limitation but reading method but
> what I want to say that povray philosophy is to be platform independent
> and as long there is dos version of povray
> you shouldn't use long filenames in your cdrom project
> (I know 10Best isn't IRTC but look at
> http://www.irtc.org/stills/rules.html at 4.f
> they point to ISO restrictions)
>
> ABX
Well, my philosophy is that only on rare occasions would anyone have to poke
around the raw directory structure. I don't want it to be like p.b.t. I
aim to make it html navigable. People will be confused & burdened with 200
subdirectories or with 2000 items in one directory.
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Greg M. Johnson wrote in message <3A1### [at] my-dejanewscom>...
> Let's back up one question.
>
> I'd like the collection to look something much more like the povray
webring
> than say povray.binaries.tutorials. I'd like it to be linked HTML
pages
> rather than a collection of ZIP files.
> Q1: Is the opposition to this proposal based on an assumption of a
pile of
> ZIP's? IMO, if we go with a pile of ZIP's (even in own
subdirectories),
> let's just stick with p.b.t., as the CD will offer no value-add to
anyone.
>
> I'm just thinking suppose we end up with 100 separate tuts. It is
going to
> be difficult for the person who wants to "get at" the information by a
means
> other than the official HTML paths, regardless of 100 subdirectories
or
> 100*(2 to 10) files in one big directory. I'm thinking that it will
be a
> much bigger pain to write the CD if there are 100 subdirectories, with
> little value add to the user.
remember that userinterface which you write in html is not only way to
access to cd-rom - user without internet browser want access cdrom from
any platform - if you deliver 1000 files in one directory how he
recognize subject of html file ? recently I bought some old macs. I plan
to use them to trace, I plan to NOT install internet browser becouse of
space but I plan read html files by pov from cd and copy some stuf from
tutorials to my scenes - what you can advice me to recognize which html
file support my problem ?
if you plan about 100 tutorials how many will be with the same zip name
? 5 ? you can't rename them by hand ? you can't write simple batch to
search all zips in directory and create subdirectories with the same
names and unzip to it ? the same batch can make list of unzipped files
as htm file !!!
> Q2: Isn't this similar to the IRTC rewriting your carefully chosen
file
> names to suit its purposes, as it dumps everything into one folder,
no?
I think it isn't
as I see from your letters you do all by hand but I think IRTC has
automats
and they allow the same names for files - look at
http://www.irtc.org/stills/rules.html point 4.h
ABX
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Greg M. Johnson <gre### [at] my-dejanewscom> wrote:
: I'm thinking that it will be a
: much bigger pain to write the CD if there are 100 subdirectories, with
: little value add to the user.
Why it would be a pain? I can't think of any reason why creating 100
subdirectories, one for each tutorial, would be difficult.
And the value add to to user would be huge. Just imagine searching for
a specific tutorial among 500 html files (supposing that every tutorial
has 5 html files in average).
Instead, if each tutorial is inside a well-named subdirectory, searching
for the correct tutorial is extremely easy.
I still think that the idea is completely crazy.
--
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):_;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/
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In article <3a12ab3a@news.povray.org> , Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> Why it would be a pain? I can't think of any reason why creating 100
> subdirectories, one for each tutorial, would be difficult.
> And the value add to to user would be huge. Just imagine searching for
> a specific tutorial among 500 html files (supposing that every tutorial
> has 5 html files in average).
> Instead, if each tutorial is inside a well-named subdirectory, searching
> for the correct tutorial is extremely easy.
>
> I still think that the idea is completely crazy.
I agree!
There is a reason why file systems support directories for decades now,
there is *no* legitimate reason for not using directories!
Thorsten
____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde
Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org
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In article <3A1### [at] my-dejanewscom>, gre### [at] my-dejanewscom
wrote:
> I'd like the collection to look something much more like the povray
> webring than say povray.binaries.tutorials. I'd like it to be linked
> HTML pages rather than a collection of ZIP files.
Who said anything about .zip's? And what is wrong with linking to pages
in their own folders instead of having everything in one place?
Also, what if people don't want to have the CD in their drive all the
time and don't want to copy the whole thing to their HD?
The tutorials should be accessible by using the operating system as well
as a main HTML page...
> Q1: Is the opposition to this proposal based on an assumption of a
> pile of ZIP's? IMO, if we go with a pile of ZIP's (even in own
> subdirectories), let's just stick with p.b.t., as the CD will offer
> no value-add to anyone.
Again, who said anything about .zip's? The tutorials should be in
immediately readable form, uncompressed .html, .txt, .pov, and image
files, not .zip or other compressed formats.
However, being uncompressed doesn't mean they have to be jumbled
together in one folder...
> I'm just thinking suppose we end up with 100 separate tuts. It is
> going to be difficult for the person who wants to "get at" the
> information by a means other than the official HTML paths, regardless
> of 100 subdirectories or 100*(2 to 10) files in one big directory.
> I'm thinking that it will be a much bigger pain to write the CD if
> there are 100 subdirectories, with little value add to the user.
Jumbling everything in one directory will definitely make it more
difficult to maintain. You will have to deal with name conflicts between
tutorials, updates to individual tutorials, making sure you link to the
right files, etc....if you have separate directories, you only have to
worry about the directory names, which the tutorials themselves can
ignore, being completely self-contained.
And for accessing the files...how is sorting through several hundred
cryptically named files to find the specific set of files you need
easier than finding one well-named directory out of a hundred? There
*are* going to be people who want to pick out individual tutorials to
study without having to have the CD in all the time...
--
Christopher James Huff
Personal: chr### [at] maccom, http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
TAG: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg, http://tag.povray.org/
<><
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Okeedokeee! The potential customers have spoken!
We can have all of the following:
1) A povray webring-like structure to html pages;
2) URL's on the html pages that say "Save As.. this link as to save the
zip files for this tutorial"
3) Every tut in its own subdirectory;
4?) Something to enable "html cripples" who want to scrounge around in the
dumpsters themselves to understand what is in the directories.
Q: Am I correct that those wanting to look at a collection in the way
Wlodzimierz is proposing would need some sort of TXT file in the
subdirectory itself to understand the context of the files? Or a non-html
"povray webring-like" txt page for the whole assembly?
Chris Huff wrote:
> In article <3A1### [at] my-dejanewscom>, gre### [at] my-dejanewscom
> wrote:
>
> > I'd like the collection to look something much more like the povray
> > webring than say povray.binaries.tutorials. I'd like it to be linked
> > HTML pages rather than a collection of ZIP files.
>
> Who said anything about .zip's? And what is wrong with linking to pages
> in their own folders instead of having everything in one place?
> Also, what if people don't want to have the CD in their drive all the
> time and don't want to copy the whole thing to their HD?
> The tutorials should be accessible by using the operating system as well
> as a main HTML page...
>
> > Q1: Is the opposition to this proposal based on an assumption of a
> > pile of ZIP's? IMO, if we go with a pile of ZIP's (even in own
> > subdirectories), let's just stick with p.b.t., as the CD will offer
> > no value-add to anyone.
>
> Again, who said anything about .zip's? The tutorials should be in
> immediately readable form, uncompressed .html, .txt, .pov, and image
> files, not .zip or other compressed formats.
> However, being uncompressed doesn't mean they have to be jumbled
> together in one folder...
>
> > I'm just thinking suppose we end up with 100 separate tuts. It is
> > going to be difficult for the person who wants to "get at" the
> > information by a means other than the official HTML paths, regardless
> > of 100 subdirectories or 100*(2 to 10) files in one big directory.
> > I'm thinking that it will be a much bigger pain to write the CD if
> > there are 100 subdirectories, with little value add to the user.
>
> Jumbling everything in one directory will definitely make it more
> difficult to maintain. You will have to deal with name conflicts between
> tutorials, updates to individual tutorials, making sure you link to the
> right files, etc....if you have separate directories, you only have to
> worry about the directory names, which the tutorials themselves can
> ignore, being completely self-contained.
> And for accessing the files...how is sorting through several hundred
> cryptically named files to find the specific set of files you need
> easier than finding one well-named directory out of a hundred? There
> *are* going to be people who want to pick out individual tutorials to
> study without having to have the CD in all the time...
>
> --
> Christopher James Huff
> Personal: chr### [at] maccom, http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
> TAG: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg, http://tag.povray.org/
>
> <><
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Greg M. Johnson <gre### [at] my-dejanewscom> wrote:
: 1) A povray webring-like structure to html pages;
Why it has to be this complicated?
Do you know what does the word "index" in the filename "index.html" mean?
And please, you can remove unused quotes. You don't have to quote
everything.
--
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):_;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/
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> Q: Am I correct that those wanting to look at a collection in the way
> Wlodzimierz is proposing would need some sort of TXT file in the
> subdirectory itself to understand the context of the files? Or a
non-html
> "povray webring-like" txt page for the whole assembly?
if you just name subdirectories as
clouds1, clouds2, focblur, globals, isosrf1, isosrf2, layers, loops,
macro, media1, media2, pigments, plant, sky, tree1, tree2, variabls,
water1, water2, water3
everyone recognize subject of tutorial, I think
remember that this is only for fast recognize not for decorative
presentation
I think you don't want prepare cdrom for one watch
I hope, you want povers to use your "product" every day
ABX
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Warp wrote:
>
> Why it has to be this complicated?
>
> Do you know what does the word "index" in the filename "index.html" mean?
>
An index file sounds like a good idea, although IIRC Greg planned some
searching function for the whole CD, that would make it obsolete. I
personally would not see much use in a ring structure.
Christoph
--
Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmxde>
Homepage: http://www.schunter.etc.tu-bs.de/~chris/
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The main collection "Your 10 Best Images" will have pages set up so that
someone could see the thumbnails for:
all the 3D Toons,
all the work by Warp,
all the work by Panamanians,
all the work by the people who actually can write their own raytracers
all the landscapes,
all the images made using sPatch modelling,
all the images with the word "media" in the keywords,
*or* the entirety of information on Greg's image #3, the fractals one.
It **shall be** html-driven. I bought the first IRTC CD-ROM (alas, only
the first; Amazon.com 1-click didn't work on subsequent CD's). That CD's
layout ONLY benefited the person interested in seeing all the SciFi or
Flight images at one time. A Panamanian graphic design editor or a
frustrated novice using sPatch or the 3D Toons partisan will all have very
different reasons for picking up the CD.
Wlodzimierz ABX Skiba wrote:
> if you just name subdirectories as
> clouds1, clouds2, focblur, globals, isosrf1, isosrf2, layers, loops,
> macro, media1, media2, pigments, plant, sky, tree1, tree2, variabls,
> water1, water2, water3
This could be done but certainly must not be the only way of locating the
tuts. What if someone used media to make water? What if someone wrote a
sPatch tutorial to make trees? A brilliant recursive macro to make a
trees? We could make some kind of dual structure for the tuts, where there
is one big TXT file which simply lists a title or something about every
tut--the povray.binaries.tutorials structure you are insisting on.
By a "povray webring structure", I mean both of the following:
I) a table of URL's added to every page which at least say
go back to tut search page,
go to next tut by this author,
go to next tutorial on macros,
go to next tutorial on trees,
Save this tutorial's zip file as,
go to CD main page, etc.
and
II) Every tutorial looks vaguely similar to my own
(http://www.geocities.com/pterandon/boids.html) much moreso than like p.b.t.
. IMO this will provide much more benefit to the purchaser wanting to use
it every day than having the only structure on the CD being like p.b.t..
I have a STRONG personal adversion to being forced to unzip a few dozen
files to see if it is what I'm looking for, so I insist that some kind of
html search page is part of the tutorials section on the CD.
Also note that the 10best.raytrace.com copyright (
http://10best.raytrace.com/10bestcopy.txt ) says:
<<5.1. Distribution is not allowed on any storage media that is accessible
over
the Internet or similar Wide Area Networks. This prohibits the use of these
files on FTP, WWW or gopher sites, among others. Distribution authorized in
(1) through (4) above is excluded from this restriction.
5.2. Distribution is not allowed on any CD-ROMs or other high capacity media
(optical disks, DVD, etc.) excepting those that are produced in accordance
with
(1) through (4) above.>>
> I think you don't want prepare cdrom for one watch
> I hope, you want povers to use your "product" every day
Yes, I trust your noble motive in this regard and thanks for putting up with
my ornery counter-suggestions.
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Greg M. Johnson wrote in message <3A142E5D.75A6A9EC@my-dejanews.com>...
>Wlodzimierz ABX Skiba wrote:
>> if you just name subdirectories as
>> clouds1, clouds2, focblur, globals, isosrf1, isosrf2, layers, loops,
>> macro, media1, media2, pigments, plant, sky, tree1, tree2, variabls,
>> water1, water2, water3
>
> This could be done but certainly must not be the only way of locating
the
> tuts. What if someone used media to make water? What if someone wrote
a
> sPatch tutorial to make trees? A brilliant recursive macro to make a
> trees?
I'm not talking about watching your cd-rom
I'm talking about fast serching through directories with a little memory
yes, when I write list above I know that you can point that two
problems are described in one tutorial
but I write about situation when I know what I'm looking for
I exactly remember which tutoriual, I only want small part of source
(i.e. settings for media or radiosity)
> We could make some kind of dual structure for the tuts, where there
> is one big TXT file which simply lists a title or something about
every
> tut--the povray.binaries.tutorials structure you are insisting on.
yes, this is used in many ftps, good idea I think
> > I think you don't want prepare cdrom for one watch
> > I hope, you want povers to use your "product" every day
>
> Yes, I trust your noble motive in this regard and thanks for putting
up with
> my ornery counter-suggestions.
I didn't want be ironic, I hope you don't think that
my english could be raw
sometimes I must use elipses to express what I want
for example tonight I plan write very long post to p.u-p
but I'm affraid about proper words
ABX
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"Greg M. Johnson" wrote:
>
[...]
>
> By a "povray webring structure", I mean both of the following:
> I) a table of URL's added to every page which at least say
> go back to tut search page,
> go to next tut by this author,
> go to next tutorial on macros,
> go to next tutorial on trees,
> Save this tutorial's zip file as,
> go to CD main page, etc.
>
> and
> II) Every tutorial looks vaguely similar to my own
> (http://www.geocities.com/pterandon/boids.html) much moreso than like p.b.t.
> . IMO this will provide much more benefit to the purchaser wanting to use
> it every day than having the only structure on the CD being like p.b.t..
>
That sounds quite good to me, but adding a list with all the tuts
including the categories they are registered under would not hurt IMO and
could be useful for a quick overview etc.
Christoph
--
Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmxde>
Homepage: http://www.schunter.etc.tu-bs.de/~chris/
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Christoph Hormann wrote:
> That sounds quite good to me, but adding a list with all the tuts
> including the categories they are registered under would not hurt IMO and
> could be useful for a quick overview etc.
Certainly part of the plan for the html main page and "search engine." The
question is to what degree to accomodate someone looking only at the raw directory
structure and not the html pages.
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"Greg M. Johnson" wrote:
>
> Also note that the 10best.raytrace.com copyright (
> http://10best.raytrace.com/10bestcopy.txt ) says:
>
I just read the licence agreement and found that it would not have hurt to
restrict the use of submissions to the purpose of promoting Povray. I
don't want to imply any bad intentions and promoting Povray is probably
the primary intention by everyone involved in that project, but since it
is a legal document, this seems a good idea to me.
Christoph
--
Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmxde>
Homepage: http://www.schunter.etc.tu-bs.de/~chris/
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Christoph Hormann wrote:
> I just read the licence agreement and found that it would not have hurt to
> restrict the use of submissions to the purpose of promoting Povray. I
> don't want to imply any bad intentions and promoting Povray is probably
> the primary intention by everyone involved in that project, but since it
> is a legal document, this seems a good idea to me.
Chris Cason wrote it.
If he makes a display ad to sell the CD using say the winner of the "cover
image contest," would someone say that's not promoting povray?
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"Greg M. Johnson" wrote:
>
> Chris Cason wrote it.
> If he makes a display ad to sell the CD using say the winner of the "cover
> image contest," would someone say that's not promoting povray?
No, just thought it would have been a good idea to write it in the licence
agreement, but no need to worry about it.
Christoph
--
Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmxde>
Homepage: http://www.schunter.etc.tu-bs.de/~chris/
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In article <3A142E5D.75A6A9EC@my-dejanews.com>,
gre### [at] my-dejanewscom wrote:
> I have a STRONG personal adversion to being forced to unzip a few dozen
> files to see if it is what I'm looking for, so I insist that some kind of
> html search page is part of the tutorials section on the CD.
Nobody needs to unzip anything! I don't know where you get this idea
that people are suggesting you put .zip files in those folders...
Again, NO .ZIP FILES ARE NEEDED!
Just put the files on the CD, completely unzipped, each in their own
folder. Make sure each tutorial has an "index.html" page, and link to
that page, all you have to worry about is the path to it, which will be
extremely short if you don't do a bunch of categorization. This will
both make the maintenence of the HTML code easier and it will allow
people to access the files directly *without any additional work on your
part*!
--
Christopher James Huff
Personal: chr### [at] maccom, http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
TAG: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg, http://tag.povray.org/
<><
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On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 12:02:40 -0500, Greg M. Johnson wrote:
>Teach me. You're saying a problem with too many items in one directory?
>Like how many is a problem?
On most Unix systems performance gets very bad somewhere between 10,000
and 100,000 entries in a single directory. But that's for their native
filesystems, not ISO-9660. I haven't done any tests on CD-ROM, and I
don't know enough about that filesystem to calculate it, but keeping all
files in a single directory is almost certainly not a good idea.
hp
--
_ | Peter J. Holzer | Perl ist der geglückte Versuch, einen
|_|_) | Sysadmin WSR | braindump direkt ausführbar zu machen.
| | | hjp### [at] wsracat | -- Lutz Donnerhacke in dasr.
__/ | http://www.hjp.at/ |
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On Wed, 15 Nov 2000 09:46:59 -0500, Greg M. Johnson wrote:
>Well, my philosophy is that only on rare occasions would anyone have to poke
>around the raw directory structure. I don't want it to be like p.b.t. I
>aim to make it html navigable. People will be confused & burdened with 200
>subdirectories or with 2000 items in one directory.
200 Subdirectories with understandable names are a lot less confusing
than 2000 files with meaningless names. Subdirectories are also good if
people use their browser, since the URL will indicate in which tutorial
they are, and whether a link points to another tutorial or to a
different part of the same tutorial.
hp
--
_ | Peter J. Holzer | Perl ist der geglückte Versuch, einen
|_|_) | Sysadmin WSR | braindump direkt ausführbar zu machen.
| | | hjp### [at] wsracat | -- Lutz Donnerhacke in dasr.
__/ | http://www.hjp.at/ |
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On Wed, 15 Nov 2000 08:41:25 -0500, Greg M. Johnson wrote:
>I'd like the collection to look something much more like the povray webring
>than say povray.binaries.tutorials. I'd like it to be linked HTML pages
>rather than a collection of ZIP files.
Absolutely.
>Q1: Is the opposition to this proposal based on an assumption of a pile of
>ZIP's?
Absolutely not. If you just have a bunch of ZIPs, subdirectories might
be optional (you can think of the ZIPs as "subdirectories"), but if you
don't have ZIPs (and I see no reason why you should use ZIPs, there's
space for a lot of tutorials on a CD), you need the subdirectories to
structure the whole thing.
>I'm thinking that it will be a much bigger pain to write the CD if
>there are 100 subdirectories,
Why do think so?
>Q2: Isn't this similar to the IRTC rewriting your carefully chosen file
>names to suit its purposes, as it dumps everything into one folder, no?
No. In IRTC, every picture stands on its own. But on a tutorial CD-ROM,
all the files in a single tutorial belong together and should be in an
extra directory. If you have many tutorials, you might also want to
group related tutorials together.
hp
--
_ | Peter J. Holzer | Perl ist der geglückte Versuch, einen
|_|_) | Sysadmin WSR | braindump direkt ausführbar zu machen.
| | | hjp### [at] wsracat | -- Lutz Donnerhacke in dasr.
__/ | http://www.hjp.at/ |
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On Thu, 16 Nov 2000 08:20:11 -0500, Greg M. Johnson wrote:
>Q: Am I correct that those wanting to look at a collection in the way
>Wlodzimierz is proposing would need some sort of TXT file in the
>subdirectory itself to understand the context of the files? Or a non-html
>"povray webring-like" txt page for the whole assembly?
No. If the HTML files are reasonably clean, they can be read with any
text editor almost like plain text files. Also, if the directory names
are meaningful (e.g., "makefile.hjp" instead of "tut00043" for my (as
yet unwritten :-) tutorial on using povray with makefiles) they often give
enough clue to find a tutorial without reading the index file.
hp
--
_ | Peter J. Holzer | Perl ist der geglückte Versuch, einen
|_|_) | Sysadmin WSR | braindump direkt ausführbar zu machen.
| | | hjp### [at] wsracat | -- Lutz Donnerhacke in dasr.
__/ | http://www.hjp.at/ |
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On Thu, 16 Nov 2000 13:58:37 -0500, Greg M. Johnson wrote:
>The main collection "Your 10 Best Images" will have pages set up so that
Er, why is this under the Subject of "Tutorial collection"? Even if they
are on the same CD, there is no reason, why the Images section and the
tutorial section should be structured the same way.
>someone could see the thumbnails for:
> all the 3D Toons,
> all the work by Warp,
[...]
Good idea.
>Wlodzimierz ABX Skiba wrote:
>
>> if you just name subdirectories as
>> clouds1, clouds2, focblur, globals, isosrf1, isosrf2, layers, loops,
>> macro, media1, media2, pigments, plant, sky, tree1, tree2, variabls,
>> water1, water2, water3
>
>This could be done but certainly must not be the only way of locating the
>tuts. What if someone used media to make water? What if someone wrote a
>sPatch tutorial to make trees?
Set up extra index pages which group tutorials by different categories.
Or just make a big alphabetical index like they are used in books.
(Or both)
hp
--
_ | Peter J. Holzer | Perl ist der geglückte Versuch, einen
|_|_) | Sysadmin WSR | braindump direkt ausführbar zu machen.
| | | hjp### [at] wsracat | -- Lutz Donnerhacke in dasr.
__/ | http://www.hjp.at/ |
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On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 16:52:26 +0100, Christoph Hormann wrote:
>
>
>"Greg M. Johnson" wrote:
>> 8) Let's adopt a common standard for differentiation between
>> explanatory text and pov code. What should this be? <CODE>, <PRE><TT>,
>> switch from Arial to Courier??
>
>IMO '<PRE>' and maybe a standardized syntax highlighting scheme for POV
>code would be good.
Yes, <pre> is meant for longer code sequences. <code> can only be used
inside a paragraph and should be used for short inline code snippets.
E.g.,
<pre>
texture {
pigment {
image_map {
png "turm-c.png"
map_type 2
}
scale <1, 17.5, 1>
}
}
</pre>
<p>
In the example above, <code>map_type 2</code> is used to indicate
cylindrical mapping.
</p>
For visual effects (font families and sizes, colors, ...) a common style
sheet should be used.
hp
--
_ | Peter J. Holzer | Perl ist der geglückte Versuch, einen
|_|_) | Sysadmin WSR | braindump direkt ausführbar zu machen.
| | | hjp### [at] wsracat | -- Lutz Donnerhacke in dasr.
__/ | http://www.hjp.at/ |
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