Yeah, it looks like a direct copy and redesign of your list. Have you sent them an
email asking
them to give credit where credit is due?

Josh

Diego Krota wrote:

> Hi everybody.
> I'm posting here to ask you all help me defend an hard work I have done and donate
to
> 3D graphics community.
> All of you, as me, use or have used free software and grown their graphics skills
having
> access to the enoromous quantity of information avalaible in Internet and made
available
> mostly by volounteers that gather info, makes tutorials, donate 3D models and
textures
> and so on.
> I discovered today that a bastard stolen a part of my web page and put it on his
page
> with just minimal changing.
> Action like those hurts not only the owners but the whole community since people
will
> became even more reluctant to put on web pages free material and work in general
that can
> be copied or used without giving authors their credits.
>
> This is my original 3D Software List (wich occoured me much work and many people
helped me):
> http://www.geocities.com/dkrota/3Dgraphics.html
>
> And this is the copy (even outdated!)
> http://www.vector6.com/graphics.html
>
> Please read and compare the headers.
>
> My page is up since 1997, the pirate one since 1999.
>
>
******************************************************************************************
> My request is that everyone of you drop a mail to the bastard asking for the page to
be
> removed.
> Remember, you are protecting your own right to have access to the best material on
the Net
> not just pirated lousy one (and even bad updated!!!)
>
******************************************************************************************
>
> I will thank in advance all of you that will help me
>
> *** IMPORTANT: to answer me by mail REMOVE "X" from my address ***
>
>       \--------------------------------------------------------\
>        \     Diego Krota   http://www.geocities.com/dkrota      \
> \-------\------------------------------------------------\-------\
>  \   Never do anything you wouldn't be caught dead doing  \
>   \--------------------------------------------------------\

--
Josh English -- Lexiphanic Lethomaniac
eng### [at] spiritonecom
The POV-Ray Cyclopedia http://www.spiritone.com/~english/cyclopedia/

Post a reply to this message

You have posted the same message to several different newsgroups...this 
causes each message to take up room on the server, and also means people 
who read more than one of the groups have to download the message twice. 
If it is really necessary to post the same message to more than one 
group, please use cross-posting instead of multiposting.

Please read the message "Cross-Posting Guidelines for news.povray.org" 
in povray.announce.frequently-asked-questions.

Anyway, I wish you luck with the pirate...

-- 
Christopher James Huff - Personal e-mail: chr### [at] maccom
TAG(Technical Assistance Group) e-mail: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg
Personal Web page: http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
TAG Web page: http://tag.povray.org/

Post a reply to this message

On Wed, 09 Aug 2000 16:01:00 +0200 Diego Krota <Xdk### [at] geocitiescom>
wrote:

>My request is that everyone of you drop a mail to the bastard asking for the page to
be 
>removed.

  Hi, Diego. It's unfortunate that someone took your page and modified
it slightly for their own use without your knowledge or consent. I agree
that this is not right.

  Now that you've announced it on this server, could you please cancel
all of your duplicate announcements with the exception of this one in
povray.general? This is the only relevant group to make such an
announcement (other than p.off-topic).

  Thank you for your consideration.

-- 
Alan - ako### [at] povrayorg - a k o n g <at> p o v r a y <dot> o r g
http://www.povray.org - Home of the Persistence of Vision Ray Tracer

Post a reply to this message

Sorry for the trouble.
I didn't know the difference of multi posting and cross posting, nor I know how to
delete a message.
Let me know and I'll do.

Thank you

Alan Kong wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 09 Aug 2000 16:01:00 +0200 Diego Krota <Xdk### [at] geocitiescom>
> wrote:
> 
> >My request is that everyone of you drop a mail to the bastard asking for the page
to be
> >removed.
> 
>   Hi, Diego. It's unfortunate that someone took your page and modified
> it slightly for their own use without your knowledge or consent. I agree
> that this is not right.
> 
>   Now that you've announced it on this server, could you please cancel
> all of your duplicate announcements with the exception of this one in
> povray.general? This is the only relevant group to make such an
> announcement (other than p.off-topic).
> 
>   Thank you for your consideration.
> 
> --
> Alan - ako### [at] povrayorg - a k o n g <at> p o v r a y <dot> o r g
> http://www.povray.org - Home of the Persistence of Vision Ray Tracer

-- 
      \--------------------------------------------------------\
       \     Diego Krota   http://www.geocities.com/dkrota      \
\-------\------------------------------------------------\-------\
 \   Never do anything you wouldn't be caught dead doing  \
  \--------------------------------------------------------\

Post a reply to this message

Ok, I discovered how to delete messages. (I really never known it was possible!)
On povray.unix someone complained about flooding is not the right option and to ask
the guy first to remove the page.
If it was a kind guy, it would not steal pages, right?
If we didn't fight hard this behaviour it'll be ruin the Net as we know it today.

Diego Krota wrote:
> 
> Sorry for the trouble.
> I didn't know the difference of multi posting and cross posting, nor I know how to
delete a message.
> Let me know and I'll do.
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Alan Kong wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 09 Aug 2000 16:01:00 +0200 Diego Krota <Xdk### [at] geocitiescom>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >My request is that everyone of you drop a mail to the bastard asking for the page
to be
> > >removed.
> >
> >   Hi, Diego. It's unfortunate that someone took your page and modified
> > it slightly for their own use without your knowledge or consent. I agree
> > that this is not right.
> >
> >   Now that you've announced it on this server, could you please cancel
> > all of your duplicate announcements with the exception of this one in
> > povray.general? This is the only relevant group to make such an
> > announcement (other than p.off-topic).
> >
> >   Thank you for your consideration.
> >
> > --
> > Alan - ako### [at] povrayorg - a k o n g <at> p o v r a y <dot> o r g
> > http://www.povray.org - Home of the Persistence of Vision Ray Tracer
> 
> --
>       \--------------------------------------------------------\
>        \     Diego Krota   http://www.geocities.com/dkrota      \
> \-------\------------------------------------------------\-------\
>  \   Never do anything you wouldn't be caught dead doing  \
>   \--------------------------------------------------------\

-- 
      \--------------------------------------------------------\
       \     Diego Krota   http://www.geocities.com/dkrota      \
\-------\------------------------------------------------\-------\
 \   Never do anything you wouldn't be caught dead doing  \
  \--------------------------------------------------------\

Post a reply to this message

Diego Krota wrote:
> If it was a kind guy, it would not steal pages, right?

Maybe he doesn't feel it as "stealing", maybe he doesn't really 
realise that he did something wrong.  Be positive, at first.  Write
him, tell him (nicely) you don't agree, and, according to his
answer, you will be able to judge wether it's a kind person or not.

> If we didn't fight hard this behaviour it'll be ruin the Net as we know it today.

Overload of business will ruin the net, nothing else...

Fabien.

Post a reply to this message

"Fabien Mosen" <fab### [at] skynetbe> wrote in message
news:399263F9.7EA9D8C5@skynet.be...
|  Be positive, at first.  Write him, tell him (nicely) you don't agree,
and, according to his
| answer, you will be able to judge wether it's a kind person or not.

I agree.  Emailing the person yourself is the first thing to do and not get
too impatient at first either.  I saw that he said Dingo and Rinky (whoever
they are :-)) helped with that list.  But Since it's pretty much an exact
duplicate of your own I don't see how they only helped with parts.  Curious
anyway.
Worse thing about this is there's no way for the rest of us to be sure if
you are actually the author and not the other way around.  The general
public isn't going to be able to judge and could only cause more trouble for
everyone involved (or get involved).  I know that sounds bad, sorry.  Wish I
had a better alternative to suggest.

Bob

Post a reply to this message

Fabien Mosen wrote in message <399263F9.7EA9D8C5@skynet.be>...
>Diego Krota wrote:
>> If it was a kind guy, it would not steal pages, right?
>
>Maybe he doesn't feel it as "stealing", maybe he doesn't really
>realise that he did something wrong.  Be positive, at first.  Write
>him, tell him (nicely) you don't agree, and, according to his
>answer, you will be able to judge wether it's a kind person or not.
>


If that doesn't get results, you could try speaking to the people who
host the site.

Gail
********************************************************************
* gsh### [at] monotixcoza              * Reality.dat not found         *
* http://www.rucus.ru.ac.za/~gail/ * Attempting to reboot universe *
********************************************************************
* The best way to accelerate Windows NT is at 9.8 m/s^2      *
********************************************************************

Post a reply to this message

In article <399274a8@news.povray.org>, "Bob Hughes" 
<per### [at] aolcom?subject=PoV-News:> wrote:

> I agree.  Emailing the person yourself is the first thing to do and 
> not get too impatient at first either.  I saw that he said Dingo and 
> Rinky (whoever they are :-)) helped with that list.  But Since it's 
> pretty much an exact duplicate of your own I don't see how they only 
> helped with parts.

And it is quite possible that Dingo grabbed the page, Rinky redid the 
design just enough to make it look different, and this Vector6 didn't 
even know it was stolen from another web page. :-)

-- 
Christopher James Huff - Personal e-mail: chr### [at] maccom
TAG(Technical Assistance Group) e-mail: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg
Personal Web page: http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
TAG Web page: http://tag.povray.org/

Post a reply to this message

Diego Krota <Xdk### [at] geocitiescom> wrote in message
news:3991641D.36E63D6D@geocities.com...
> Hi everybody.
> I'm posting here to ask you all help me defend an hard work I have done
and donate to
> 3D graphics community.

Ok, I e-mailed Rudy Spurlin, manager of the Vector6 site, and voiced to him
my concerns that the list he is hosting may have been stolen.  He replied to
my message claiming the very same thing you are, that his list was stolen,
and is now being harassed by people claiming him as the thief based solely
on your original post.  Spurlin wished to speak no more of the matter to me
pending future legal action needed to rectify this situation.  A bold
statement coming from someone who supposedly "stole" a list of links...  As
Bob Huges first mentioned, it's sad to say but there is little proof that
the list is indeed yours, or his.  Therefore, trying to raise a riotous mob
in your defense will hardly make matters right and will only confuse the
situation.  The best solution is to e-mail him, and only him, and work the
situation out peacefully.

Good luck,
-Chris-

Post a reply to this message

Didn't Ken sort of take some pre-existing lists and make them his own?

If someone were to take without credit our friend's artwork or political
rantings or news photography, I'd be at the head of the mob. It is really hard
for me to find very many tears for the "loss" of credit for a list of free
links.

"Chris S." wrote:

> Ok, I e-mailed Rudy Spurlin, manager of the Vector6 site, and voiced to him
> my concerns that the list he is hosting may have been stolen.  He replied to
> my message claiming the very same thing you are, that his list was stolen,
> and is now being harassed by people claiming him as the thief based solely
> on your original post.  Spurlin wished to speak no more of the matter to me
> pending future legal action needed to rectify this situation.  A bold
> statement coming from someone who supposedly "stole" a list of links...  As
> Bob Huges first mentioned, it's sad to say but there is little proof that
> the list is indeed yours, or his.  Therefore, trying to raise a riotous mob
> in your defense will hardly make matters right and will only confuse the
> situation.  The best solution is to e-mail him, and only him, and work the
> situation out peacefully.
>
> Good luck,
> -Chris-

Post a reply to this message

"Greg M. Johnson" <gre### [at] my-dejanewscom> wrote in message
news:3997F06C.69A22DAA@my-dejanews.com...
| Didn't Ken sort of take some pre-existing lists and make them his own?

Not that I ever noticed, or recall anything about it!  gasp...

| If someone were to take without credit our friend's artwork or political
| rantings or news photography, I'd be at the head of the mob. It is really
hard
| for me to find very many tears for the "loss" of credit for a list of free
| links.

Don't know which was first, the chicken or the egg.   I never do.
This is a bit uncanny though that the possibility of two nearly identical
web pages exist and both people claim them to be uniquely there own making.
What surprised me was that they were so much alike, even identical, not
something you see everyday unless it's a mirrored site or something.  Were
the info collected and redone you would expect to see plenty of personal
changes.  As it is I don't see any real differences.  Only other possibility
is that both people could have started from yet another source which had the
format seen there with the alphabet correlation to the link types.  But
still, so much the same?  Someone had to be first at least, which is what
Diego is claiming.
Anyway, as you are saying Greg, it's only links for all to use.  Not a major
problem seems to me either.  However the web page duplication sort of thing
is kind of a problem.  Hope they manage to find a harmonious resolve.

Bob

Post a reply to this message

"Greg M. Johnson" wrote:
> 
> Didn't Ken sort of take some pre-existing lists and make them his own?

Nope. Ken started by bookmarking links found in USENET messages, people's
sig links, from search engines, hundreds of hours of searching through
various freeware/shareware sites, and from links submitted to him from
people who heard that he was collecting links. In all but a few cases
they were added one by one but on those occasions where I found a
useful collection of POV-Ray related links on someone else's page I
took the time to visit each site on the list, bookmarked it, and then
added my own comments to the link itself. My collection is a labor of
love that is, to the best of my knowledge, wholly my own.

I have however found my collection mirrored in totality on some
other POV-Ray related websites a couple of which were done without
my permission. At first I was really pissed off about it but I
decided that since I was still serving the POV-Ray community, even
without the credit, that I wasn't going to let it bother me.

-- 
Ken Tyler - 1400+ POV-Ray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/

Post a reply to this message

Ken wrote:

> "Greg M. Johnson" wrote:
> > Didn't Ken sort of take some pre-existing lists and make them his own?
>
>  In all but a few cases
> they were added one by one but on those occasions where I found a
> useful collection of POV-Ray related links on someone else's page I
> took the time to visit each site on the list, bookmarked it, and then
> added my own comments to the link itself.

Perhaps I accused without warrant, but even then my point was that the crime
was inconsequential.  This practice you just described could be called
"stealing" someone else's ideas, kind of like reading all the footnotes in a
book and then writing your 'own' book.  Hey, people have been sued for
offering links to pages with links to pirated stuff, or sued for links to
someone's competitors, no?

I'm not one of those who hold that copyright is in itself outdated.  I think
what private citizens did at Napster was criminal (albeit undecided on
Napster's culpability).

As I said before, if someone stole one JPG or one tutorial at those sitse,
I'd be at the head of the mob.  I just can't get excited about piracy of
"favorite links".  If you look at my boids tutorial, I both invested a labor
of love in typing up a boids tutorial, and also in a bunch of links that I
think are cool.  I would take action if some stole the tutorial, be proud if
someone appropriated the links.
http://www.geocities.com/pterandon/boids.html

Q:  I visited both sites briefly.  The accused site had pretty cool
background images. Was there also an accusation of appropriation of the
images, too?

> My collection is a labor of
> love that is, to the best of my knowledge, wholly my own.

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 14 Aug 2000 07:25:01 -0700, Ken <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote:

>My collection is a labor of love that is, to the best of my 
>knowledge, wholly my own.

It's your labour of love that has earned you our love :)

>I have however found my collection mirrored in totality on some
>other POV-Ray related websites a couple of which were done without
>my permission. At first I was really pissed off about it but I
>decided that since I was still serving the POV-Ray community, even
>without the credit, that I wasn't going to let it bother me.

That's lame. Do the sites at least mention your name or your site? Do
the webmasters keep them as up-to-date as you do? Has anyone
explicitly claimed your credit?

I am only asking because for your hard work you at least deserve the
credit.


Peter Popov ICQ : 15002700
Personal e-mail : pet### [at] usanet
TAG      e-mail : pet### [at] tagpovrayorg

Post a reply to this message

Peter Popov wrote:

> It's your labour of love that has earned you our love :)

Ah gee...
 
> >I have however found my collection mirrored in totality on some
> >other POV-Ray related websites a couple of which were done without
> >my permission. At first I was really pissed off about it but I
> >decided that since I was still serving the POV-Ray community, even
> >without the credit, that I wasn't going to let it bother me.
> 
> That's lame. Do the sites at least mention your name or your site?

One still had "Bookmarks for Ken" at the top of the page :)

> Do the webmasters keep them as up-to-date as you do?

Not one. In fact the couple two or three I found were badly out
of date.

> Has anyone explicitly claimed your credit?

They were simply linked to as "graphics links" or "POV-Ray links"
etc.
 
> I am only asking because for your hard work you at least deserve the
> credit.

I get credit enough. That is why I decided to not let it bother me.

Even if no one thanked me I would still probably be keeping the
collection going if for no other reason than I like to be able to
find POV-Ray related resources without having to go looking all over
the web to find them. I also enjoy helping others looking for the
same kinds of resources. It's my payback for POV-Ray (thank you
POV-Team) and all of the other free utilities and POV-Ray related
programs I have obtained from other likewise thinking people.

-- 
Ken Tyler - 1400+ POV-Ray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/

Post a reply to this message

Ken wrote:
> 
> "Greg M. Johnson" wrote:
> >
> > Didn't Ken sort of take some pre-existing lists and make them his own?
> 
> Nope. Ken started by bookmarking links found in USENET messages, people's
> sig links, from search engines, hundreds of hours of searching through
> various freeware/shareware sites, and from links submitted to him from

Now listen to a story 'bout a boy named Yang.
A California student whose grades weren't worth a dang
He cut all his classes so that he could surf the net
While taxes bought his beer and a computer for a pet.

Old Yang he got some links and then he got some links some more
His friends all said "Jerry Yang you are a bore!"
And then one day he published on the web
All the links he'd collected, and nothing rhymes with web.

Billionaire, no original content, taxpayer funded.

Yahoo!

---
dik

Post a reply to this message

Dick Balaska wrote:

>
> Old Yang he got some links and then he got some links some more
> His friends all said "Jerry Yang you are a bore!"
> And then one day he published on the web
> All the links he'd collected, and nothing rhymes with web.

Jeb?

Post a reply to this message