Historical note:

POV-Ray began it's existence in May of 1991 making the program 9 years
of age this month. Long may she live !

-- 
Ken Tyler - 1400+ POV-Ray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/

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Ken <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote:
: POV-Ray began it's existence in May of 1991 making the program 9 years
: of age this month. Long may she live !

  She?

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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Warp wrote:
> 
> Ken <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote:
> : POV-Ray began it's existence in May of 1991 making the program 9 years
> : of age this month. Long may she live !
> 
>   She?

She!

-- 
Ken Tyler - 1400+ POV-Ray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/

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Ken wrote:
> 
> Warp wrote:
> >
> > Ken <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote:
> > : POV-Ray began it's existence in May of 1991 making the program 9 years
> > : of age this month. Long may she live !
> >
> >   She?
> 
> She!
> 

Never thought of it as female gender. It?
OTOH it (she) can quite bitchy sometimes ... :-)

Happy Birthday!


Marc

-- 
Marc Schimmler

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> > : POV-Ray began it's existence in May of 1991 making the program 9 years
> > : of age this month. Long may she live !
> >
> >   She?
>
> She!

please share how you managed to determine POVray's gender (or maybe we had
better not know - oooo)

9years good going tho !, concidering the way its developed

Rick

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9 Years Old? Wow! BTW, I think it's more of an "it".

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>Never thought of it as female gender. It?

Did you ever see the Saturday Night Live sketch in which these two guys are
talking about their wives and their ships?:

-So, how's your wife?
--It's fine.
-And how's your daughter?
--It's doing great. It's birthday is coming up.
-That's nice. Congratulations.
--Thanks. Hey, I got a new boat.
-Really? What's she like?
--She's a real beauty.

Notice the gender thing going on there? :)

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Most vehicles (ships, cars, carts, wagons) that men are proud of
get called "she". But if the thing really "ticks us off", it becomes
"that thing", "hunk of junk", "bitch", or anything else. It would seem
that if we love it, it becomes "she". Just like the joke TonyB shared.
Maybe this concept can be applied to programs also. 

"Rick [Kitty5]" wrote:
> 
> > > : POV-Ray began it's existence in May of 1991 making the program 9 years
> > > : of age this month. Long may she live !
> > >
> > >   She?
> >
> > She!
> 
> please share how you managed to determine POVray's gender (or maybe we had
> better not know - oooo)
> 
> 9years good going tho !, concidering the way its developed
> 
> Rick

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TonyB wrote:
> 
> >Never thought of it as female gender. It?
> 
> Did you ever see the Saturday Night Live sketch in which these two guys are
> talking about their wives and their ships?:
> 
> -So, how's your wife?
> --It's fine.
> -And how's your daughter?
> --It's doing great. It's birthday is coming up.
> -That's nice. Congratulations.
> --Thanks. Hey, I got a new boat.
> -Really? What's she like?
> --She's a real beauty.
> 
> Notice the gender thing going on there? :)

Ships are female in german, too. 
Programs have a neutral gender.

Always.

Marc

-- 
Marc Schimmler

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"Marc Schimmler" <sch### [at] icauni-stuttgartde> wrote in message >

> Ships are female in german, too.

Eeer.., like "das Schiff" and "das Boot" you mean? ;-)

Johannes.

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Marc Schimmler wrote in message <391AC417.F45F4F03@ica.uni-stuttgart.de>...
>TonyB wrote:
>>
>Ships are female in german, too.
>Programs have a neutral gender.


hmph. Well after the results of this evening I can say that
my computer is definatly male!!!  *Tried* to install pws,
it crashed half way through and now won't even boot.

Tried to do something nice for it and see what I get...
<Walks away muttering and swearing in assorted languages>

Gail
********************************************************************
* gsh### [at] monotixcoza              * Reality.dat not found         *
* http://www.rucus.ru.ac.za/~gail/ * Attempting to reboot universe *
********************************************************************
* The best way to accelerate Windows NT is at 9.8 m/s^2      *
********************************************************************

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"Rick [Kitty5]" wrote:
> 
> > > : POV-Ray began it's existence in May of 1991 making the program 9 years
> > > : of age this month. Long may she live !
> > >
> > >   She?
> >
> > She!
> 
> please share how you managed to determine POVray's gender (or maybe we had
> better not know - oooo)

Because "she" makes my neural nets feel all warm and fuzzy inside when
I communicate with here.

-- 
Ken Tyler - 1400+ POV-Ray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/

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On Thu, 11 May 2000 12:00:40 -0400, Serge LAROCQUE
<sg_### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:

>I think the Russians (in the days of the Soviet Union) had a male gender for
>their ships. At least they did in Tom Clancy books :-)

Depends on the type of ship. In Russian (and all Slavic languages) all
nouns have a gender. For example, in Bulgarian a boat is feminine and
a ship is masculine.


Peter Popov ICQ : 15002700
Personal e-mail : pet### [at] usanet
TAG      e-mail : pet### [at] tagpovrayorg

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YEeeeehaaaa!
See the birthday pic i posted.
it doesn't say Happy Birthday Povray, but it does say happy birthday....
;-)

Ken wrote:
> 
> Historical note:
> 
> POV-Ray began it's existence in May of 1991 making the program 9 years
> of age this month. Long may she live !
> 
> --
> Ken Tyler - 1400+ POV-Ray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
> http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/

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The 'she' confused me as well.

Both ship and program are masculine in french.

Fabien Hénon

Marc Schimmler a écrit :

> TonyB wrote:
> >
> > >Never thought of it as female gender. It?
> >
> > Did you ever see the Saturday Night Live sketch in which these two guys are
> > talking about their wives and their ships?:
> >
> > -So, how's your wife?
> > --It's fine.
> > -And how's your daughter?
> > --It's doing great. It's birthday is coming up.
> > -That's nice. Congratulations.
> > --Thanks. Hey, I got a new boat.
> > -Really? What's she like?
> > --She's a real beauty.
> >
> > Notice the gender thing going on there? :)
>
> Ships are female in german, too.
> Programs have a neutral gender.
>
> Always.
>
> Marc
>
> --
> Marc Schimmler

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On Thu, 11 May 2000 20:16:30 +0200, "Johannes Hubert" <jht### [at] mailacom>
wrote:

>> Ships are female in german, too.
>
>Eeer.., like "das Schiff" and "das Boot" you mean? ;-)

...and Donaudampsschiff?

(my favourite German word: Donaudampsschiffskapitänsmüzensschierm :) )


Peter Popov ICQ : 15002700
Personal e-mail : pet### [at] usanet
TAG      e-mail : pet### [at] tagpovrayorg

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On Thu, 11 May 2000 21:34:21 +0200, "Gail Shaw" <gsh### [at] monotixcoza>
wrote:

>hmph. Well after the results of this evening I can say that
>my computer is definatly male!!!  *Tried* to install pws,
>it crashed half way through and now won't even boot.
>
>Tried to do something nice for it and see what I get...
><Walks away muttering and swearing in assorted languages>
>
>Gail

Being probably the only woman around, this is quite challenging of
you! But what do you care, you're an aikidoka :)


Peter Popov ICQ : 15002700
Personal e-mail : pet### [at] usanet
TAG      e-mail : pet### [at] tagpovrayorg

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In Spanish, I think that things like ships, depending on the type, can be
both masculine and femenine (barco, barca). Computers can be either
masculine or femenine (computador, computadora, ordenador). Programs are
femenine (programa).

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Peter Popov wrote in message ...
>On Thu, 11 May 2000 21:34:21 +0200, "Gail Shaw" <gsh### [at] monotixcoza>
>wrote:
>
>>hmph. Well after the results of this evening I can say that
>>my computer is definatly male!!!  *Tried* to install pws,
>>it crashed half way through and now won't even boot.
>>
>>Tried to do something nice for it and see what I get...
>><Walks away muttering and swearing in assorted languages>
>>
>>Gail
>
>Being probably the only woman around, this is quite challenging of
>you!

<laughs> You think I don't know that? I just thought I'd see what the
reaction is.
I expected a stronger reaction, maybe the people here are more relaxed
than some of the ones I work with.

>But what do you care, you're an aikidoka :)

<grin> How's your aikido???

follow-ups to off topic (I hope)

Gail
********************************************************************
* gsh### [at] monotixcoza              * Reality.dat not found         *
* http://www.rucus.ru.ac.za/~gail/ * Attempting to reboot universe *
********************************************************************
* The best way to accelerate Windows NT is at 9.8 m/s^2      *
********************************************************************

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Johannes Hubert wrote:
> 
> "Marc Schimmler" <sch### [at] icauni-stuttgartde> wrote in message >
> 
> > Ships are female in german, too.
> 
> Eeer.., like "das Schiff" and "das Boot" you mean? ;-)
> 
> Johannes.

No Seaman would ever consider a ship different from female. It's her.
This has nothing to do with the grammatical gender of the nouns. :-)

Marc

-- 
Marc Schimmler

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Johannes Hubert wrote:
> 
> "Marc Schimmler" <sch### [at] icauni-stuttgartde> wrote in message >
> 
> > Ships are female in german, too.
> 
> Eeer.., like "das Schiff" and "das Boot" you mean? ;-)
> 
> Johannes.

Die Bismarck
Die Titanic
Die Polarstern
Die Bremen
.
.
.

Marc

-- 
Marc Schimmler

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Peter Popov <pet### [at] usanet> wrote:
: Depends on the type of ship. In Russian (and all Slavic languages) all
: nouns have a gender.

  In finnish there's no this kind of phenomenon.

  Moreover, in english you have "he" and "she", but in finnish you don't.
You have only one word, "hän", which applies to both genders.

  This can be pretty complicated when translating texts which relies strongly
in this aspect. For example if in english you say "he did it but she did not",
there's a problem when translating that to finnish. In this case you have
to use either the names of those persons, or some other expression like
"the boy did it but the girl did not" (of course supposing that in the
context of that sentence it's known that he is a boy (and not and old man,
for example), etc). It can be a problem if nothing is known about those
persons but the gender.
  However, that's not a big problem compared to the translation in the
other way around. Suppose that the text only speaks about a person as
"hän", without defining his/her gender, and that the story relies strongly
in the fact that the gender is not disclosed until the very end (perhaps
a mystery story or something). That is pretty hard to translate to english
(or any other language where the gender is distinguished, which is very
common).

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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Peter Popov <pet### [at] usanet> wrote:
: (my favourite German word: Donaudampsschiffskapitänsmüzensschierm :) )

  In finnish you can also construct almost endless word combinations.
One of the longest that is actually used (usually only printed) may be:
Kolmivaihevaihtovirtakilowattituntimittari.
  It's a meticulous name for that device that measures the amount of
electricity used in a house. A more common name is just "sähkömittari"
(electricity meter, or whatever it's called in english).

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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TonyB <ben### [at] panamac-comnet> wrote:
: In Spanish, I think that things like ships, depending on the type, can be
: both masculine and femenine (barco, barca). Computers can be either
: masculine or femenine (computador, computadora, ordenador). Programs are
: femenine (programa).

  What about povray?-)

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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"Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote in message
news:391bc13f@news.povray.org...

>   However, that's not a big problem compared to the translation in the
> other way around. Suppose that the text only speaks about a person as
> "hän", without defining his/her gender, and that the story relies strongly
> in the fact that the gender is not disclosed until the very end (perhaps
> a mystery story or something). That is pretty hard to translate to english
> (or any other language where the gender is distinguished, which is very
> common).
>

Yes, I once wrote a short-story in which I didn't want the sex of one of the
characters to given. Took some real acrobatics and even then there are bits
that still look a little forced.

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Warp wrote:

>   What about povray?-)

She!

-- 
Ken Tyler - 1400+ POV-Ray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/

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Tom Melly <tom### [at] tomandluf9couk> wrote:
: Yes, I once wrote a short-story in which I didn't want the sex of one of the
: characters to given. Took some real acrobatics and even then there are bits
: that still look a little forced.

  In finnish it would be pretty easy :)

  Btw, another english word that is sometimes pretty hard to translate is
"please". There exists no such word in finnish. There are some expressions
that can be used in its place, but they don't work in all cases.
  For example the sentence "please don't kill me!" is hard to translate if
you expressly want that "please" to be included in one way or another.

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

Post a reply to this message

Ken <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote:
:>   What about povray?-)

: She!

  "She" is not a spanish word :)

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
> 
> Ken <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote:
> :>   What about povray?-)
> 
> : She!
> 
>   "She" is not a spanish word :)

Señora POV-Ray.

-- 
Ken Tyler - 1400+ POV-Ray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/

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Ken wrote:

>Señora POV-Ray.
>

She's only nine, wouldn't that be senorita POV-Ray (despite all the man 
that "use her")?

Ingo

-- 
Photography: http://members.home.nl/ingoogni/
Pov-Ray    : http://members.home.nl/seed7/

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Peter Popov wrote:
> 

> (my favourite German word: Donaudampsschiffskapitänsmüzensschierm :
) )
> 


Because you like it so much ...
it's

Donaudampfschiffkapitänsmützenschirm :-)

You could go on with

Donaudampfschiffkapitänsmützenschirmfarbe :-))

Marc

-- 

Marc Schimmler

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That's why I've never read a book translated from finnish.

Warp wrote in message <391bc13f@news.povray.org>...
>Peter Popov <pet### [at] usanet> wrote:
>: Depends on the type of ship. In Russian (and all Slavic languages) all
>: nouns have a gender.
>
>  In finnish there's no this kind of phenomenon.
>
>  Moreover, in english you have "he" and "she", but in finnish you don't.
>You have only one word, "hän", which applies to both genders.
>
>  This can be pretty complicated when translating texts which relies
strongly
>in this aspect. For example if in english you say "he did it but she did
not",
>there's a problem when translating that to finnish. In this case you have
>to use either the names of those persons, or some other expression like
>"the boy did it but the girl did not" (of course supposing that in the
>context of that sentence it's known that he is a boy (and not and old man,
>for example), etc). It can be a problem if nothing is known about those
>persons but the gender.
>  However, that's not a big problem compared to the translation in the
>other way around. Suppose that the text only speaks about a person as
>"hän", without defining his/her gender, and that the story relies strongly
>in the fact that the gender is not disclosed until the very end (perhaps
>a mystery story or something). That is pretty hard to translate to english
>(or any other language where the gender is distinguished, which is very
>common).
>
>--
>main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
>):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote in message news:391bcfa4@news.povray.org...

>
>   Btw, another english word that is sometimes pretty hard to translate is
> "please". There exists no such word in finnish. There are some expressions
> that can be used in its place, but they don't work in all cases.
>   For example the sentence "please don't kill me!" is hard to translate if
> you expressly want that "please" to be included in one way or another.

It would inconvenience me greatly if you killed me.
--
s.

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LOL! Don't worry, lots of "señoritas" here haven't been señoritas for quite
some time, but still get called that. It relies on their age, and the
general assumption that they're good girls.

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>  What about povray?-)

El programa trazador de rayos POV-Ray. (I just made up the 'trazador de
rayos' part, I don't really know how you would say that). BTW, I made a
little SNAFU there. "programa" is actually masculine, despite ending in 'a'.
<g>

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In Spanish, that would be "Por favor, no me mates!" As you can see, there is
no one-word equivalent. (Unless you count the slang "porfa").

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On Fri, 12 May 2000 12:16:25 +0200, Marc Schimmler
<sch### [at] icauni-stuttgartde> wrote:

>Peter Popov wrote:
>> 
>> (my favourite German word: Donaudampsschiffskapitänsmüzensschierm :) )
>Because you like it so much ...
>it's
>
>Donaudampfschiffkapitänsmützenschirm :-)
>
>You could go on with
>
>Donaudampfschiffkapitänsmützenschirmfarbe :-))

Oops... I missed a 'geselschaft' in there :)

And if anyone's wondering, no, I don't know German.


Peter Popov ICQ : 15002700
Personal e-mail : pet### [at] usanet
TAG      e-mail : pet### [at] tagpovrayorg

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On Fri, 12 May 2000 12:16:25 +0200, Marc Schimmler wrote:
>Peter Popov wrote:
>> 
>> (my favourite German word: Donaudampsschiffskapitänsmüzensschierm :) )
>> 
>
>Because you like it so much ...
>it's
>
>Donaudampfschiffkapitänsmützenschirm :-)
>
>You could go on with
>
>Donaudampfschiffkapitänsmützenschirmfarbe :-))

If the captain was employed by the Donaudampfschifffahrtsgesellschaft,
it would have been the
Donaudampfschifffahrtsgesellschaftskapitänsmützenschirmfarbe, and this
being Austria there is probably a
Donaudampfschifffahrtsgesellschaftskapitänsmützenschirmfarbenverordnung.

	hp

-- 
   _  | Peter J. Holzer    | Nicht an Tueren mangelt es,
|_|_) | Sysadmin WSR       | sondern an der Einrichtung (aka Content).
| |   | hjp### [at] wsracat      |    -- Ale### [at] univieacat
__/   | http://www.hjp.at/ |       zum Thema Portale in at.linux

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On Fri, 12 May 2000 14:59:33 -0400, Serge LAROCQUE wrote:
>What is the word meaning anyway?

Donau		- Danube
Dampf		- steam
Schiff		- ship
Fahrt		- passage
Gesellschaft	- company
Kapitän		- captain
Mütze		- cap
Schirm		- visor
Farbe		- color
Verordnung	- regulation

The Donaudampfschifffahrtsgesellschaft (DDSG for short) really exists.
Building even longer words from that is a favorite sport among Autrian
school children (or at least it was when I was 10 or so). 
Austrian bureaucrats are of course even more successful at building long
words. A few months ago I read about some regulation with a similar
length as my "DDSG captain's visor color regulation". Unfortunately I
can't remember what it was about.

	hp


-- 
   _  | Peter J. Holzer    | Nicht an Tueren mangelt es,
|_|_) | Sysadmin WSR       | sondern an der Einrichtung (aka Content).
| |   | hjp### [at] wsracat      |    -- Ale### [at] univieacat
__/   | http://www.hjp.at/ |       zum Thema Portale in at.linux

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>Gesellschaft - company

"Gemeinschaft". What does that mean? I saw it in my sociology book.

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TonyB wrote:
> 
> >Gesellschaft - company
> 
> "Gemeinschaft". What does that mean? I saw it in my sociology book.

Union, community, collective, etc.

-- 
Margus Ramst

Personal e-mail: mar### [at] peakeduee
TAG (Team Assistance Group) e-mail: mar### [at] tagpovrayorg

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In article <slr### [at] tealhhjpat>, 
hjp### [at] SiKituwsracat (Peter J. Holzer) wrote:

> Fahrt		- passage

Err...


> The Donaudampfschifffahrtsgesellschaft (DDSG for short) really exists.
> Building even longer words from that is a favorite sport among Autrian
> school children (or at least it was when I was 10 or so). 
> Austrian bureaucrats are of course even more successful at building long
> words. A few months ago I read about some regulation with a similar
> length as my "DDSG captain's visor color regulation". Unfortunately I
> can't remember what it was about.

It sounds like German simply has a looser definition of "word". In 
english, that would simply be divided up into each of it's parts, and 
the whole called a "title" or something, while in German the words seem 
to be concatenated into one with little or no modification.

-- 
Christopher James Huff - Personal e-mail: chr### [at] yahoocom
TAG(Technical Assistance Group) e-mail: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg
Personal Web page: http://chrishuff.dhs.org/
TAG Web page: http://tag.povray.org/

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On Sat, 13 May 2000 18:51:14 -0500, Chris Huff wrote:
>It sounds like German simply has a looser definition of "word". In 
>english, that would simply be divided up into each of it's parts, and 
>the whole called a "title" or something, while in German the words seem 
>to be concatenated into one with little or no modification.

Yes. German (like Finnish :-) allows building almost infinitely long
words, where in English you would use a phrase of many words. However,
English allows building of longer words from shorter words, too:
"raytracer" is just as common as "ray tracer", and it's "football"
not "foot ball". In general, the English language seems to avoid long
words. You can see this with adjectives, too: The comparative of
"easy" is "easier" (one slightly longer word), but the comparative
of "complicated" is "more complicated" (two words) instead of
"complicateder".

	hp

-- 
   _  | Peter J. Holzer    | Nicht an Tueren mangelt es,
|_|_) | Sysadmin WSR       | sondern an der Einrichtung (aka Content).
| |   | hjp### [at] wsracat      |    -- Ale### [at] univieacat
__/   | http://www.hjp.at/ |       zum Thema Portale in at.linux

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