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From: Rune
Subject: Re: Suggestion (Was: POV-Ray Logo Competition - Vote Here !)
Date: 19 Apr 2000 15:55:17
Message: <38fe0f25@news.povray.org>
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"Warp" wrote:
> It's very possible that the second and perhaps
> the third miss winning by just a bit.
> It's unfair to discard them.
If voting isn't fair, then what *is* fair?
Isn't voting the only way in which all people have evenly great influence on
the results?
Won't discarding the results of the voting be to doubt the judgment of
people?
What other options than voting are there?
Discussion? Many people have voted/will vote in this competition, but only a
fraction of those will join a discussion if one were to be made. I am sure
of that.
And what will the result of such a discussion be? Will the people who have
the best arguments decide which logo wins? Or will there simply be arranged
another voting?
Why make a voting more than once?
The only case it would give different results was if people had changed
their mind for some reason. Why would people suddenly change their minds?
Besides, I don't think a second voting could attract near as many votes as
this first voting. I think people take this competition serious because it
has been planned for a long time, because they think it is a one-time-event,
and because they think the result will decide which logo will be the logo of
POV-Ray (though not necessarily officially). If people find out that we
don't follow up on the result, then I think they will take this whole thing
less seriously, and therefore I don't think we could get nearly as many
people to vote a second time. Sometime one just ought to be a little
consistent.
I would like to hear many opinions on this subject so I know what other
people think. I hope those who agree will also reply, so I get to know it.
Greetings,
Rune
---
Updated March 15: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!
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"Andry Gunawan" wrote:
>
> > 1 st priority: logo __11
> > 2 nd priority: logo __3
> > 3 rd priority: logo __12
> > 4 th priority: logo __4
> > 5 th priority: logo __13
> > 6 th priority: logo __14
> > 7 th priority: logo __9 <---
> > 8 th priority: logo __6
> > 9 th priority: logo __5
> > 10 th priority: logo __15
> > 11 th priority: logo __1
> > 12 th priority: logo __7
> > 13 th priority: logo __2
> > 14 th priority: logo __9 <---
> > 15 th priority: logo __8
Sorry, this vote doesn't work.
You have logo 9 two places and logo 10 no place.
You can make a reply to your vote, where you correct this.
Greetings,
Rune
---
Updated March 15: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!
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I have received by e-mail this vote from Francois Labreque:
> 1 st priority: logo 8
> 2 nd priority: logo 11
> 3 rd priority: logo 15
> 4 th priority: logo 2
> 5 th priority: logo 5
I post it here so it is not only me who can keep track on what has been
voted.
Greetings,
Rune
---
Updated March 15: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!
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I have received by e-mail this vote from Chris Spencer:
> 1 st priority: logo 13
> 2 nd priority: logo 11
> 3 rd priority: logo 09
> 4 th priority: logo 15
> 5 th priority: logo 04
> 6 th priority: logo 03
I post it here so it is not only me who can keep track on what has been
voted.
Greetings,
Rune
---
Updated March 15: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!
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From: Bill DeWitt
Subject: Re: Suggestion (Was: POV-Ray Logo Competition - Vote Here !)
Date: 19 Apr 2000 16:41:46
Message: <38fe1a0a@news.povray.org>
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I agree, if voting is fair at all, then it is fair with the present vote.
I still don't think we have gotten a -GREAT- Povray logo, but since I
couldn't come up with a better one and neither has anyone else...
...maybe there should have been a "None of the Above" entry.
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1 st priority: logo 03
2 nd priority: logo 04
3 rd priority: logo 06
4 th priority: logo 09
5 th priority: logo 11
6 th priority: logo 13
7 th priority: logo 15
8 th priority: logo 07
9 th priority: logo 05
10 th priority: logo 08
11 th priority: logo 08
12 th priority: logo 10
13 th priority: logo 14
14 th priority: logo 02
15 th priority: logo 12
Post a reply to this message
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From: Rune
Subject: Re: Suggestion (Was: POV-Ray Logo Competition - Vote Here !)
Date: 19 Apr 2000 20:07:03
Message: <38fe4a27@news.povray.org>
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"Bill DeWitt" wrote:
> I agree, if voting is fair at all, then it is fair with the present vote.
This just came to my mind: We could just discuss the votes now. If it makes
people change their minds, there's still plenty of time for them to change
their votes before the deadline.
I don't see any problem with people being permitted to change their votes,
as long as it is still in the voting period.
> I still don't think we have gotten a -GREAT- Povray logo, but since I
> couldn't come up with a better one and neither has anyone else...
>
> ...maybe there should have been a "None of the Above" entry.
Well, I though about it, but it would have made the rules more complicated.
Would you rather have that POV-Ray doesn't have a logo at all?
Greetings,
Rune
---
Updated March 15: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!
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Rune wrote:
> Would you rather have that POV-Ray doesn't have a logo at all?
It could be that if the "none of the above" were to have the most
votes it would signal peoples dissatisfaction with the current
entries as the logo of choice for POV-Ray. It would mean that
more creative entries are needed before a consensus is reached
and everyone is satisfied that POV-Ray is getting the logo it
deserves. It would mean that it's time to go back to the old
drawing board and start over. It would mean...
--
Ken Tyler - 1400+ POV-Ray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/
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From: Rune
Subject: Re: Suggestion (Was: POV-Ray Logo Competition - Vote Here !)
Date: 19 Apr 2000 20:25:36
Message: <38fe4e80@news.povray.org>
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"Ken" wrote:
> Rune wrote:
>
> > Would you rather have that POV-Ray doesn't have a logo at all?
>
> It could be that if the "none of the above" were to have the most
> votes it would signal peoples dissatisfaction with the current
> entries as the logo of choice for POV-Ray.
I know, but it would not be as simple as that. Many people would probably
think that some of the logos are good enough, but others not. Therefore, in
my original version of the rules I provided an option to "vote blank" which
meant that each voter could specify if his blank priorities was an
indication of laziness or rather that the blank priorities weren't good
enough.
I asked for opinions on these rules and the only feedback I got was that
they were too complicated. So I simplified them. If I had got replies from
people saying that it was good I provided the option, then I probably
wouldn't have removed it.
Greetings,
Rune
---
Updated March 15: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!
Post a reply to this message
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From: Fabien Mosen
Subject: Re: Suggestion (Was: POV-Ray Logo Competition - Vote Here !)
Date: 20 Apr 2000 01:28:25
Message: <38FE94BB.27E1B2A6@skynet.be>
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Rune wrote:
> Isn't voting the only way in which all people have evenly great influence on
> the results?
> Won't discarding the results of the voting be to doubt the judgment of
> people?
What's your intention ? Pick up a winner, or ending up with an
excellent logo for Povray ?
> What other options than voting are there?
It could be a jury or some other system, but that's not the point.
> Discussion? Many people have voted/will vote in this competition, but only a
> fraction of those will join a discussion if one were to be made. I am sure
> of that.
We don't need many people to discuss that. We need a clever discussion,
not a numerous one.
> And what will the result of such a discussion be? Will the people who have
> the best arguments decide which logo wins? Or will there simply be arranged
> another voting?
One more time, it's not about winning, it's about getting a good logo.
Once we get the vote results, we'll have a better idea of which logo's
best fulfills the requirements for a Pov-Ray logo. The discussion
could end up to the enhancement of "enhance-able" logos, and we
could switch to a collective work, based on existing logos, or maybe a
new
synthesis facilitated by a better understanding of the requirements.
> Why make a voting more than once?
> The only case it would give different results was if people had changed
> their mind for some reason. Why would people suddenly change their minds?
How can you think that a vote can sort the best logo ? By experience,
voting usually gives a priority to "less disliked" stuff, and passe by
stronger choices... voting is a good indication, but is not sufficient.
Fabien.
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