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Is it OK for everybody that I just take all the macros and INC-files I
can find (from your pages, from this newsgroup, ...) and put them on
my site (of course giving the creator the credits) to make one large
(enormous might be a better word) collection? Or does someone
disagree with this?
ZK
http://www.crosswinds.net/~povplace
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On Tue, 28 Mar 2000 19:25:40 +0200, Zeger Knaepen
<ZEG### [at] student kuleuvenacbe> wrote:
>Is it OK for everybody that I just take all the macros and INC-files I
>can find (from your pages, from this newsgroup, ...) and put them on
>my site (of course giving the creator the credits) to make one large
>(enormous might be a better word) collection? Or does someone
>disagree with this?
I hope the rest of the TAG members won't get mad at me for disclosing
that a similar project has been discussed among us as a possible to-do
in the future. If you could do our job, that would be great :)
Peter Popov ICQ : 15002700
Personal e-mail : pet### [at] usanet
TAG e-mail : pet### [at] tagpovrayorg
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On Tue, 28 Mar 2000 23:03:58 +0300, Peter Popov wrote:
>On Tue, 28 Mar 2000 19:25:40 +0200, Zeger Knaepen
><ZEG### [at] studentkuleuvenacbe> wrote:
>
>>Is it OK for everybody that I just take all the macros and INC-files I
>>can find (from your pages, from this newsgroup, ...) and put them on
>>my site (of course giving the creator the credits) to make one large
>>(enormous might be a better word) collection? Or does someone
>>disagree with this?
>
>I hope the rest of the TAG members won't get mad at me for disclosing
>that a similar project has been discussed among us as a possible to-do
>in the future. If you could do our job, that would be great :)
Doesn't this run afoul of copyright? Just saying "speak up if you have
a problem with this" isn't good enough, as those who posted the macros
in question may no longer be active here. I think you'll have to contact
each and every macro author to get permission.
FWIW, Zeger, any include files or macros I've posted here are free for
the taking; just don't file off the serial numbers and try to pass them
off as your own (not that I think you would.)
--
These are my opinions. I do NOT speak for the POV-Team.
The superpatch: http://www2.fwi.com/~parkerr/superpatch/
My other stuff: http://www2.fwi.com/~parkerr/traces.html
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That's such a problem. It would be great to have a one-stop source for
everything and yet the permission issue is always there getting in the way. I
only share anything I have to begin with on the notion it might dissolve into
oblivion (hopefully the opposite) without care of whether anything's linked back
to me at all or not. But I can understand the good reasoning about that not
being universally accepted policy since how would a person ever know if
something is "patented" to use a descriptive word for it. Well, then again
that's up to the person putting something out in the first place. If explicitly
"copyrighted" it should probably be treated as such. Where I get confused is
when people drop stuff out here and there that doesn't even have a name
associated with it much less a email address or (c) in it somewhere.
Based on that alone I'd say you could gather up everything you can find and
because if something does have any identifying stamps put in then it should be
perfectly all right to get and redistribute (it carries identification anyhow).
The only stop would be if the point of origin covers all content as copyrighted
or even non-distributable (huh?). Rather, non-RE-distributable...
I believe it's a confusing mess all to do with what is considered allowable,
said or unsaid.
The point being, do people intend their uploads to become downloads. Quite a
simple solution until the objects in question are meant to be downloaded from
specific places only. This is going to be the main factor.
Bob
"Ron Parker" <ron### [at] povrayorg> wrote in message
news:38e1133f@news.povray.org...
| On Tue, 28 Mar 2000 23:03:58 +0300, Peter Popov wrote:
| >On Tue, 28 Mar 2000 19:25:40 +0200, Zeger Knaepen
| ><ZEG### [at] studentkuleuvenacbe> wrote:
| >
| >>Is it OK for everybody that I just take all the macros and INC-files I
| >>can find (from your pages, from this newsgroup, ...) and put them on
| >>my site (of course giving the creator the credits) to make one large
| >>(enormous might be a better word) collection? Or does someone
| >>disagree with this?
| >
| >I hope the rest of the TAG members won't get mad at me for disclosing
| >that a similar project has been discussed among us as a possible to-do
| >in the future. If you could do our job, that would be great :)
|
| Doesn't this run afoul of copyright? Just saying "speak up if you have
| a problem with this" isn't good enough, as those who posted the macros
| in question may no longer be active here. I think you'll have to contact
| each and every macro author to get permission.
|
| FWIW, Zeger, any include files or macros I've posted here are free for
| the taking; just don't file off the serial numbers and try to pass them
| off as your own (not that I think you would.)
|
| --
| These are my opinions. I do NOT speak for the POV-Team.
| The superpatch: http://www2.fwi.com/~parkerr/superpatch/
| My other stuff: http://www2.fwi.com/~parkerr/traces.html
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Ron Parker wrote in message <38e1133f@news.povray.org>...
>Doesn't this run afoul of copyright? Just saying "speak up if you have
>a problem with this" isn't good enough, as those who posted the macros
>in question may no longer be active here. I think you'll have to contact
>each and every macro author to get permission.
As it says in the help files for the include files on my site, you can do
this as long as you notify me (so I can make sure you have the latest
version).
Mark
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> Ron Parker wrote in message <38e1133f@news.povray.org>...
> >Doesn't this run afoul of copyright? Just saying "speak up if you have
> >a problem with this" isn't good enough, as those who posted the macros
> >in question may no longer be active here. I think you'll have to contact
> >each and every macro author to get permission.
There's an old and rather cynical piece of wisdom that says it's easier
to apologize for something than it is to get permission in the first place.
My advice would be to go ahead and compile such a collection. If no one
complains, it doesn't matter whether what you're doing is "right" or
"wrong". Sure, that's morally bankrupt, but we don't exactly live in a
perfect world to start with.. and it won't end if someone has to ask
that their files be taken down.
--
Xplo Eristotle
http://start.at/xplosion/
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Xplo Eristotle wrote:
> There's an old and rather cynical piece of wisdom that says it's easier
> to apologize for something than it is to get permission in the first place.
>
> My advice would be to go ahead and compile such a collection. If no one
> complains, it doesn't matter whether what you're doing is "right" or
> "wrong". Sure, that's morally bankrupt, but we don't exactly live in a
> perfect world to start with.. and it won't end if someone has to ask
> that their files be taken down.
That's morally bankrupt.
From the perspective of collecting material from this news server it
may not be as much of an issue. Taking material from peoples web pages,
without asking, however is another issue altogether.
Many people put in a lot of time and effort publishing their web pages
and offer some POV-Ray related materials to attract visitors to their
site. If you collect all of the resources available from the hundreds
of sites out there, and put it into one monster collection, there will
be no reason for people to visit the other web pages. Besides making
a lot of web pages instantly obsolete I am sure you also run the risk
of hurting the feeling of more than just a few people who enjoy having
regular visitors to their sites.
I personally never would, and never have, put someone else's material
on my own web page without first asking permission. I would consider
it in very poor taste to do so and it would show that a person has
very little regard or respect for copyright law. I think there is a
strong moral justification to contact the owner of the material for
permission prior to inclusion into any such collection.
--
Ken Tyler - 1300+ Povray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/
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Ken wrote:
> Many people put in a lot of time and effort publishing their web pages
> and offer some POV-Ray related materials to attract visitors to their
> site. If you collect all of the resources available from the hundreds
> of sites out there, and put it into one monster collection, there will
> be no reason for people to visit the other web pages. Besides making
> a lot of web pages instantly obsolete I am sure you also run the risk
> of hurting the feeling of more than just a few people who enjoy having
> regular visitors to their sites.
Agreed. People who write complex macros usually make sure that they are presented
in the best possible form, with example files, help files, related
pictures/animations, version history and so on. This is a form of service for the
"customer" that is an important part of the work of writing macros. I have always
supported the idea of having a central repository for macros and other
pov-related stuff, which could be very practical indeed, but I think that this
kind of job must be done right, with a proper presentation of the material
offered that requires not only the agreement but also the cooperation of the
author. I have come across this type of "bundling" and often the poor
organisation didn't make it as useful as it should have been.
G.
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You're right. But what about just linking to the files on their
site?
(It's also easier for me to do)
ZK
http://www.crosswinds.net/~povplace
Ken wrote:
>
> That's morally bankrupt.
>
> From the perspective of collecting material from this news server it
> may not be as much of an issue. Taking material from peoples web pages,
> without asking, however is another issue altogether.
>
> Many people put in a lot of time and effort publishing their web pages
> and offer some POV-Ray related materials to attract visitors to their
> site. If you collect all of the resources available from the hundreds
> of sites out there, and put it into one monster collection, there will
> be no reason for people to visit the other web pages. Besides making
> a lot of web pages instantly obsolete I am sure you also run the risk
> of hurting the feeling of more than just a few people who enjoy having
> regular visitors to their sites.
>
> I personally never would, and never have, put someone else's material
> on my own web page without first asking permission. I would consider
> it in very poor taste to do so and it would show that a person has
> very little regard or respect for copyright law. I think there is a
> strong moral justification to contact the owner of the material for
> permission prior to inclusion into any such collection.
>
> --
> Ken Tyler - 1300+ Povray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
> http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/
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"Gilles Tran" <tra### [at] inapginrafr> wrote in message
news:38E1C5CE.CF5E9960@inapg.inra.fr...
| Ken wrote:
|
| > Many people put in a lot of time and effort publishing their web pages
| > and offer some POV-Ray related materials to attract visitors to their
| > site. If you collect all of the resources available from the hundreds
| > of sites out there, and put it into one monster collection, there will
| > be no reason for people to visit the other web pages. Besides making
| > a lot of web pages instantly obsolete I am sure you also run the risk
| > of hurting the feeling of more than just a few people who enjoy having
| > regular visitors to their sites.
|
| Agreed. People who write complex macros usually make sure that they are
presented
| in the best possible form, with example files, help files, related
| pictures/animations, version history and so on. This is a form of service for
the
| "customer" that is an important part of the work of writing macros. I have
always
| supported the idea of having a central repository for macros and other
| pov-related stuff, which could be very practical indeed, but I think that this
| kind of job must be done right, with a proper presentation of the material
| offered that requires not only the agreement but also the cooperation of the
| author. I have come across this type of "bundling" and often the poor
| organisation didn't make it as useful as it should have been.
|
| G.
I'm agreeing too, it's obvious that centralization is a great way to do things
of this type. That's why I see it as such "a rock and a hard place". I can't
imagine anyone not wanting such a thing, and yet everyone wants to have their
personal space as well, a place to call home on the WWW.
Granted there's a large variation on the reasoning behind personal web pages
more than just ego but there's such a large sharing concept that goes on that it
becomes like a park where flowers are picked because of a lack of Do Not signs
or even more so as if there are signs which say Have a Flower.
Anyway it's not something I think can easily be figured out one way or the other
unless there are rules written in stone. You could argue that there's a golden
rule of sorts but which one is it? The one that says Keep Out or the one that
says Nature Trail (hope you'll forgive me for my attempt at metaphor).
Again all I'm saying is that if it's not written down on a web page or within a
downloaded file someplace then it's not possible to discern well enough and
therefore the trail is most likely to be walked.
To the original message posted, the question being put to the several people
that might see it here and even fewer who respond isn't going to get anywhere
about this idea.
The only reasonable option is to go looking for people everywhere not just here
and if not the people look for the macros, includes, scene files, etc. and see
if they are gatherable by the reckoning of what's said at the places they
originate from. A lot of work to do but I see no other feasible way. Like
emailing around and promoting this web page of stuff in the usual manner. Ah,
and then there comes spamming....
I just can't imagine this ever being easy to do one way or the other. Got my
well-wishing though.
P.S.
The POV-Ray Ring is about as close to a nice compromise as it gets and I can
only roam from site to site just so much each time I go looking around. Not
only that, first the people have to join up with that to begin with and I'm sure
everyone doesn't nearly do so. Anyway, this always brings up what I believe is
very likely to be a frustration of many people. www.povray.org is what you'd
expect to be THE place of places but it too can't be simply because of the
tendency to scatter or not bother to try and merge. Makes it all the more
obvious how little of my own stuff I manage to get out onto the 'net.
Bob
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Zeger Knaepen wrote:
>
> You're right. But what about just linking to the files on their
> site?
> (It's also easier for me to do)
This raises another issue with violating the TOS of several service
providers such as the major ones like geocities, xoom, and my own ISP
who forbid linking to files directly from other web pages. It may
not be a problem for you but you may jeopardize other people's
accounts.
--
Ken Tyler - 1300+ Povray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/
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Hi, Ken. Not that a macro collection couldn't work if permission were
granted by the authors but another consideration is that a big
collection is hard to keep updated. The authors' latest work is probably
the most desirable.
On Tue, 28 Mar 2000 23:38:58 -0800 Ken <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote:
>Many people put in a lot of time and effort publishing their web pages
>and offer some POV-Ray related materials to attract visitors to their
>site. If you collect all of the resources available from the hundreds
>of sites out there, and put it into one monster collection, there will
>be no reason for people to visit the other web pages. Besides making
>a lot of web pages instantly obsolete I am sure you also run the risk
>of hurting the feeling of more than just a few people who enjoy having
>regular visitors to their sites.
--
Alan - ako### [at] povrayorg - a k o n g <at> p o v r a y <dot> o r g
http://www.povray.org - Home of the Persistence of Vision Ray Tracer
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Xplo Eristotle wrote:
> Sure, that's morally bankrupt, but we don't exactly live in a
> perfect world to start with.. and it won't end if someone has to ask
> that their files be taken down.
In the French Blender newsgroup, a mini flame war erupted some time ago after
someone set up a web page containing some texts produced by other people
(without asking prior permission). It cooled off quickly, but then it led to
calls for a chart of "proper behavior" and the such, and overall bad feelings
and lack of trust.
So, if we can discuss how "evil" is a particular behavior (most "evildoers" in
these cases do what they do with good intentions), I don't think that there's
any discussion about the fact that even a slight suspicion of "moral bankrupcy"
may be harmful to a group, and not worth the trouble.
G.
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Gilles Tran wrote:
>
> In the French Blender newsgroup, a mini flame war erupted some time ago after
> someone set up a web page containing some texts produced by other people
> (without asking prior permission). It cooled off quickly, but then it led to
> calls for a chart of "proper behavior" and the such, and overall bad feelings
> and lack of trust.
> So, if we can discuss how "evil" is a particular behavior (most "evildoers" in
> these cases do what they do with good intentions), I don't think that there's
> any discussion about the fact that even a slight suspicion of "moral bankrupcy"
> may be harmful to a group, and not worth the trouble.
>
> G.
I've always given away the biggest part of my work for free but when I
do so I
mark it as free or if someone asks me for permission I would grant it.
Just taking
away my work and publishing it without my prior consent, even if quoted
properly
would make me feel bad.
Asking for permission before the publishing would be *VERY* important
for me if I
didn't gave permission for free use before. Such behaviour would lead to
defiance
on my part.
Marc
--
Marc Schimmler
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Peter Popov wrote:
>
>
> I hope the rest of the TAG members won't get mad at me for disclosing
> that a similar project has been discussed among us as a possible to-do
> in the future. If you could do our job, that would be great :)
It'll be much work, and not everybody seems to agree... I don't know
if I can do it.
I mean: if I have to ask every POVer in person, I'll lose quite some
time. How about giving you guys the login and password of my site, so
it could be an open site? After all, disk-space shouldn't be an
issue: Crosswinds gives me unlimited space.
> Peter Popov ICQ : 15002700
> Personal e-mail : pet### [at] usanet
> TAG e-mail : pet### [at] tagpovrayorg
ZK
http://www.crosswinds.net/~povplace
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On Wed, 29 Mar 2000 03:50:29 -0800, Ken wrote:
>Zeger Knaepen wrote:
>>
>> You're right. But what about just linking to the files on their
>> site?
>> (It's also easier for me to do)
>
>This raises another issue with violating the TOS of several service
>providers such as the major ones like geocities, xoom, and my own ISP
>who forbid linking to files directly from other web pages. It may
>not be a problem for you but you may jeopardize other people's
>accounts.
This seems to be a rather unfair policy. If I put a link from my site to
one of your pages you may not even find out (do you get the referrer
logs from your provider?) and in any case you cannot do anything against
it. Apart from that it is of course totally against the spirit of the
WWW to forbid links.
hp
--
_ | Peter J. Holzer \ Vielleicht ist nächstes Jahr der entscheidente
|_|_) | Sysadmin WSR \ Durchbruch in der Bionik, und Microsoft geht
| | | hjp### [at] wsracat \ Pleite und Gardena bringt organische PC's
__/ | http://www.hjp.at/ \ auf den Markt. -- Stefan Schaefer
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"Peter J. Holzer" wrote:
> >> You're right. But what about just linking to the files on their
> >> site?
> >> (It's also easier for me to do)
> >
> >This raises another issue with violating the TOS of several service
> >providers such as the major ones like geocities, xoom, and my own ISP
> >who forbid linking to files directly from other web pages. It may
> >not be a problem for you but you may jeopardize other people's
> >accounts.
>
> This seems to be a rather unfair policy. If I put a link from my site to
> one of your pages you may not even find out (do you get the referrer
> logs from your provider?) and in any case you cannot do anything against
> it. Apart from that it is of course totally against the spirit of the
> WWW to forbid links.
I provide links to well over a 1000 web pages. I do not however provide
links to the downloadable material on those sites. There is a distinct
difference. When I link to a page and someone activates it they are
taken to that page and may do what they want once there. If I were to
link to a utility then when the link us activated a download process
ensues -without- taking the visitor to the referring page.
For example:
This link will take you to a web with pov resources available -
http://www.xoom.com/povpage/index.html
This link will automatically download povfile.zip without you
visiting the page -
http://www.xoom.com/povpage/utilities/povfile.zip
The reason that web page providers do not like this, especially providers
like Geocities and Xoom, is because it bypasses their advertising which
is what makes it possible for them to provide free web based services
for their clients. If you bypass the web page you in essence turn them
into a free file storage service for yourself without the need of entering
into a contract with them. They lose potential profits this way. Regardless
it is their policy to restrict this kind of activity and while it might
not hurt you it may cause the persons page you are linking to to be
yanked for TOS violations - something I am sure you don't want to do.
I am not sure I described the difference well and maybe someone can
make it a little more clear why companies like xoom would restrict
this type of linking.
--
Ken Tyler - 1300+ Povray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/
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Zeger Knaepen wrote:
>
> Is it OK for everybody that I just take all the macros and INC-files I
> can find (from your pages, from this newsgroup, ...) and put them on
> my site (of course giving the creator the credits) to make one large
> (enormous might be a better word) collection? Or does someone
> disagree with this?
This question is best addressed to the individual macro authors. You can
go ahead and use mine; if I hadn't written them, somebody else would have.
Regards,
John
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Ken wrote:
> For example:
>
> This link will take you to a web with pov resources available -
> http://www.xoom.com/povpage/index.html
>
> This link will automatically download povfile.zip without you
> visiting the page -
> http://www.xoom.com/povpage/utilities/povfile.zip
What I was thinking about, would be more like:
http://www.xoom.com/povplage/tutorials/blobs.htm
> The reason that web page providers do not like this, especially providers
> like Geocities and Xoom, is because it bypasses their advertising which
Actually, you *can* do this with Xoom. I did it once. (Yes, they
kicked me, but it *did* work :-)
ZK
http://www.crosswinds.net/~povplace
> is what makes it possible for them to provide free web based services
> for their clients. If you bypass the web page you in essence turn them
> into a free file storage service for yourself without the need of entering
> into a contract with them. They lose potential profits this way. Regardless
> it is their policy to restrict this kind of activity and while it might
> not hurt you it may cause the persons page you are linking to to be
> yanked for TOS violations - something I am sure you don't want to do.
>
> I am not sure I described the difference well and maybe someone can
> make it a little more clear why companies like xoom would restrict
> this type of linking.
>
> --
> Ken Tyler - 1300+ Povray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
> http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/
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Zeger Knaepen wrote:
> What I was thinking about, would be more like:
> http://www.xoom.com/povplage/tutorials/blobs.htm
But isn't that what I am already doing with the links collection at povray.org ?
> > The reason that web page providers do not like this, especially providers
> > like Geocities and Xoom, is because it bypasses their advertising which
>
> Actually, you *can* do this with Xoom. I did it once. (Yes, they
> kicked me, but it *did* work :-)
I didn't say you can't do it, just that you are not supposed to :(
--
Ken Tyler - 1300+ Povray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/
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Instead of a big pile of unrelated macros,
it might be nice to have a coherent library
or collection for possible inclusion into
the official distro. Something like a
standard POV library of macros. It would
require lots of sifting, testing, getting
permission, and documentation effort.
Just a suggestion. Would make a nice new
feature of POV.
--
Nigel Stewart (nig### [at] nigelscom)
Research Student, Software Developer
Y2K is the new millenium for the mathematically challenged.
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Ken wrote:
>
> Zeger Knaepen wrote:
>
> > What I was thinking about, would be more like:
> > http://www.xoom.com/povplage/tutorials/blobs.htm
>
> But isn't that what I am already doing with the links collection at povray.org ?
>
Oh. I thought you always linked to the main-page of the site.
ZK
http://www.crosswinds.net/~povplace
> > > The reason that web page providers do not like this, especially providers
> > > like Geocities and Xoom, is because it bypasses their advertising which
> >
> > Actually, you *can* do this with Xoom. I did it once. (Yes, they
> > kicked me, but it *did* work :-)
>
> I didn't say you can't do it, just that you are not supposed to :(
>
> --
> Ken Tyler - 1300+ Povray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
> http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/
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Zeger Knaepen wrote:
> > But isn't that what I am already doing with the links collection at povray.org ?
> >
> Oh. I thought you always linked to the main-page of the site.
Out of self defense I am starting to but originally I tried to link to the
relevant page where the resource was located. The problem is that when people
do work on their web pages they have a nasty habit of renaming their sub
pages and in consequence breaking my link to it. This has caused me a lot
of work having to go back and trying to locate the correct address for the
resource I am listing. I have almost given up on this and instead just list
the entry page so I don't have to work as hard to maintain the links in working
order. You will still find a large mix of links in the collection, some that
take you to the resource page, and others to the main page instead.
I guarantee you will run into similar problems if you try linking directly
to the resource pages at the various sites. I have another advantage over
you. As the links page maintainer at povray.org I am pretty well known now.
When people change the contents, or address, of their site they take the time
to send me an e-mail notifying my of the change. Until I was given that
special distinction I seldom was warned when a resource was moved or changed.
It has really helped keeping the links active and up-to-date.
--
Ken Tyler - 1300+ Povray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/
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"Ken" <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote :
>
> I guarantee you will run into similar problems if you try linking directly
> to the resource pages at the various sites.
>
Back when animated gifs were relatively new, I was one of the few folk
who made any large number of them for general distribution. Actually, I made
quite a good living doing so for about a year. But on my WEB page I had a
whole pile of samples and people kept trying to build their page by linking
to my images instead of downloading them and posting them on their own
server.
I would have 30,000 hits on one .gif file and only 3 on my page...
So I got a program, I forget the name now, but it's only purpose was to
find all the .gif files on your site and rename them incrementally. Worked
Great! I would run that about once a week and at first I got a bunch of
nasty E-Mail from people who thought it was unfair of me not to provide free
bandwidth with my free artwork. I loved getting those posts...
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Bob Hughes wrote:
> The point being, do people intend their uploads to become downloads. Quite a
> simple solution until the objects in question are meant to be downloaded from
> specific places only. This is going to be the main factor.
This is a good point. In many cases, it's not so much that people
object to others sharing what they have already given away with the
intent of sharing... it's the desire to maintain control over the
packages that's distributed (compare this to POV-Legal's reasoning)
either to ensure what is distributed in your name is really what
you created, or to ensure outdated versions aren't still being
handed out as the latest greatest.
I think if the macro is already available from some other site, you
should simply put a link to that site, and perhaps your own
description of what it is and does, and perhaps a quick review of
your own experience with it. That way, you have content for your
own site, you develop a one stop comprehensive list of what's
available, which everyone will appreciate, and the author
maintains control over what gets released. And who is going to
complain about you throwing web traffic in their direction?
And it's not an either-or situation: You can always publicly offer
to host a copy of the macro in the event the author ever doesn't
want to maintain their own site anymore, as well as distributing
macros for people who don't have a site of their own, which also
would be a valuable service.
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You would also, of course, give a link and encourage people to visit the
original sites, right?
(I'm just thinking of ways to boost my puny hit-o-meter, 3D ring's finally
back up (WooHoo)... :-) )
--
___ _______________________________________________
| \ |_ <dav### [at] faricynet> <ICQ 55354965>
|_/avid |ontaine http://www.faricy.net/~davidf/
"The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad." -Dali
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Zeger Knaepen wrote:
> You're right. But what about just linking to the files on their
> site?
> (It's also easier for me to do)
Link to the section of their page that will direct people as close to possible
to the actual file without linking to it
This also has the advantage that they can check for similar material, and the
owner of the original file knows their site was visited
--
___ _______________________________________________
| \ |_ <dav### [at] faricynet> <ICQ 55354965>
|_/avid |ontaine http://www.faricy.net/~davidf/
"The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad." -Dali
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"Charles Fusner" <cfu### [at] enternet> wrote in message
news:38E3E98F.9F39C596@enter.net...
|
| I think if the macro is already available from some other site, you
| should simply put a link to that site, and perhaps your own
| description of what it is and does, and perhaps a quick review of
This is probably the most feasible and easy answer. A reservoir web page in
which a visitor can find access to things without collecting the actual items,
by being a sort of informative hub instead. AKA a links page...
Anyhow I don't see much of any other way to go about it except to ask for
donations to the collection whether it be a URL to a page or the actual file.
I couldn't help but think all this was not a good idea all because other things
are based on this concept and people aren't always motivated to use the extra
effort to upload files or send in URLs to someplace (besides there own) for
possible inclusion to the collecting site regardless of the other aspects being
discussed here.
This is certainly what Zeger wanted to circumvent.
Bob
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On Wed, 29 Mar 2000 17:23:37 -0800, Ken wrote:
>"Peter J. Holzer" wrote:
>> >This raises another issue with violating the TOS of several service
>> >providers such as the major ones like geocities, xoom, and my own
>> >ISP who forbid linking to files directly from other web pages. It
>> >may not be a problem for you but you may jeopardize other people's
>> >accounts.
>>
>> This seems to be a rather unfair policy. If I put a link from my
>> site to one of your pages you may not even find out (do you get the
>> referrer logs from your provider?) and in any case you cannot do
>> anything against it. Apart from that it is of course totally against
>> the spirit of the WWW to forbid links.
>
>I provide links to well over a 1000 web pages. I do not however provide
>links to the downloadable material on those sites. There is a distinct
>difference.
Indeed. I just didn't understand that you meant "non-html files" when
you just wrote "files". Linking directly to anything but HTML is
problematic (and often considered rude) because it takes the document
out of the context.
Still, penalizing a customer for something he has no control over
strikes me as unfair. However, as long as there isn't a monopoly, I
don't care if some particular provider has a policy I don't like - I can
always find another.
hp
--
_ | Peter J. Holzer \ Vielleicht ist nächstes Jahr der entscheidente
|_|_) | Sysadmin WSR \ Durchbruch in der Bionik, und Microsoft geht
| | | hjp### [at] wsracat \ Pleite und Gardena bringt organische PC's
__/ | http://www.hjp.at/ \ auf den Markt. -- Stefan Schaefer
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On Tue, 28 Mar 2000 19:25:40 +0200, Zeger Knaepen wrote:
>Is it OK for everybody that I just take all the macros and INC-files I
>can find (from your pages, from this newsgroup, ...) and put them on
>my site (of course giving the creator the credits) to make one large
>(enormous might be a better word) collection? Or does someone
>disagree with this?
As it says in all my macro files:
Copy.. Oh just take it!
--
Cheers
Steve email mailto:sjl### [at] ndirectcouk
%HAV-A-NICEDAY Error not enough coffee 0 pps.
web http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~sjlen/
or http://start.at/zero-pps
10:14pm up 1 day, 48 min, 5 users, load average: 1.01, 1.02, 1.00
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