Hi,

I was wondering if anyone can give me an approximate idea as to how many
povray users there are right now?

-Justin

Post a reply to this message

Justin Clark wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I was wondering if anyone can give me an approximate idea as to how many
> povray users there are right now?
> 
> -Justin

The POV-Team keeps statistics on the traffic at their site but it would
be almost impossible using those statistics to determine the size of
their user base. It might give you some insight however looking at
the stats below for the month of Nov. 1999. My personal home page,
dedicated to POV-Ray, has had 12,000+ visitors since it went online
in April of last year. I would guess that there is a fairly large
POV-User base but I would not care to guess at how many.


The statistics for the POV-Ray home page at - http://www.povray.org

Daily Averages for the month of November 1999

Total Hits                 97,428
Files Downloaded           85,479
Pages Accessed             40,219

Monthly Totals for the month of November 1999

Total Hits              2,922,863
Files Downloaded        2,565,378
Pages Accessed          1,206,595
Bandwidth in KBytes    74,387,415

-- 
Ken Tyler -  1300+ Povray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/

Post a reply to this message

> Daily Averages for the month of November 1999
>
> Total Hits                 97,428
> Files Downloaded           85,479
> Pages Accessed             40,219
>
> Monthly Totals for the month of November 1999
>
> Total Hits              2,922,863
> Files Downloaded        2,565,378
> Pages Accessed          1,206,595
> Bandwidth in KBytes    74,387,415

Wow! That's a lot!

--
Homepage: http://www.faricy.net/~davidf/
___     ______________________________
 | \     |_       <dav### [at] faricynet>
 |_/avid |ontaine      <ICQ 55354965>

Post a reply to this message

Well, I can account for 107 different names. But that is only what
is seen on a regular basis in these news groups.

Justin Clark wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I was wondering if anyone can give me an approximate idea as to how many
> povray users there are right now?
> 
> -Justin

-- 
Mr. Art

"Often the appearance of reality is more important 
than the reality of the appearance."
Bill DeWitt 2000

Post a reply to this message

I go to Kens web page for the links a several times a month on average and I
might be average too (not the povray links), so just going by that alone with
perhaps 15,000 accesses a year divide 15000 by 5 first = 3000 people.
Maybe the povray downloads is best to judge the number of people by but still
you'd want to divide that number by the average time a single person gets a file
(the povray distributions I take it, if not then various FTP d/l's need to be
subtracted out. Let's say that would be 1/25 of the 2.5 million d/l's just to
wild guess for actual POV-Ray only).  I'll conclude then that it's 1 million POV
d/l's per month, and over a longer period of time that would mean there might be
a few repeat d/l's to get updated versions.  Subtract out the multiple platform
users and it might cut this in half, then take away some errant re-d/l's for
whatever reason (bad d/l) and the final number might be 1/4 million people.  But
then maybe double that back just because....
Final total guesstamation: 500,000 POV-Ray users out there, whether they be
one-time users or full-time.
It's okay if you don't believe me though, I don't either.

Bob

"Ken" <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote in message
news:3894C631.BB207664@pacbell.net...
|
|
| Justin Clark wrote:
| >
| > Hi,
| >
| > I was wondering if anyone can give me an approximate idea as to how many
| > povray users there are right now?
| >
| > -Justin
|
| The POV-Team keeps statistics on the traffic at their site but it would
| be almost impossible using those statistics to determine the size of
| their user base. It might give you some insight however looking at
| the stats below for the month of Nov. 1999. My personal home page,
| dedicated to POV-Ray, has had 12,000+ visitors since it went online
| in April of last year. I would guess that there is a fairly large
| POV-User base but I would not care to guess at how many.
|
|
| The statistics for the POV-Ray home page at - http://www.povray.org
|
| Daily Averages for the month of November 1999
|
| Total Hits                 97,428
| Files Downloaded           85,479
| Pages Accessed             40,219
|
| Monthly Totals for the month of November 1999
|
| Total Hits              2,922,863
| Files Downloaded        2,565,378
| Pages Accessed          1,206,595
| Bandwidth in KBytes    74,387,415
|
| --
| Ken Tyler -  1300+ Povray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
| http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/

Post a reply to this message

Mistake.  2.5 million divided by 25 is 100,000 not 1 million.  Continuing on
from there ends up at 50,000 people.  Much more believable I think, even if it
was about as haphazard a statistical analysis as it gets.

Bob

"Bob Hughes" <omn### [at] hotmailcom?subject=PoV-News:> wrote in message
news:3894e633@news.povray.org...
| I go to Kens web page for the links a several times a month on average and I
| might be average too (not the povray links), so just going by that alone with
| perhaps 15,000 accesses a year divide 15000 by 5 first = 3000 people.
| Maybe the povray downloads is best to judge the number of people by but still
| you'd want to divide that number by the average time a single person gets a
file
| (the povray distributions I take it, if not then various FTP d/l's need to be
| subtracted out. Let's say that would be 1/25 of the 2.5 million d/l's just to
| wild guess for actual POV-Ray only).  I'll conclude then that it's 1 million
POV
| d/l's per month, and over a longer period of time that would mean there might
be
| a few repeat d/l's to get updated versions.  Subtract out the multiple
platform
| users and it might cut this in half, then take away some errant re-d/l's for
| whatever reason (bad d/l) and the final number might be 1/4 million people.
But
| then maybe double that back just because....
| Final total guesstamation: 500,000 POV-Ray users out there, whether they be
| one-time users or full-time.
| It's okay if you don't believe me though, I don't either.
|
| Bob
|
| "Ken" <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote in message
| news:3894C631.BB207664@pacbell.net...
| |
| |
| | Justin Clark wrote:
| | >
| | > Hi,
| | >
| | > I was wondering if anyone can give me an approximate idea as to how many
| | > povray users there are right now?
| | >
| | > -Justin
| |
| | The POV-Team keeps statistics on the traffic at their site but it would
| | be almost impossible using those statistics to determine the size of
| | their user base. It might give you some insight however looking at
| | the stats below for the month of Nov. 1999. My personal home page,
| | dedicated to POV-Ray, has had 12,000+ visitors since it went online
| | in April of last year. I would guess that there is a fairly large
| | POV-User base but I would not care to guess at how many.
| |
| |
| | The statistics for the POV-Ray home page at - http://www.povray.org
| |
| | Daily Averages for the month of November 1999
| |
| | Total Hits                 97,428
| | Files Downloaded           85,479
| | Pages Accessed             40,219
| |
| | Monthly Totals for the month of November 1999
| |
| | Total Hits              2,922,863
| | Files Downloaded        2,565,378
| | Pages Accessed          1,206,595
| | Bandwidth in KBytes    74,387,415
| |
| | --
| | Ken Tyler -  1300+ Povray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
| | http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/
|
|

Post a reply to this message

I read this newsgroups constantly, but the main POV-Ray user in our family is
my daughter. She doesn't have Internet access unfortunately. So you can add
once more user...� :-)))))) I think, that many people read these newsgroups,
but only a little part of them write in these newsgroups.

With best regards,

Pavel Rumyantsev

"mr.art" wrote:

> Well, I can account for 107 different names. But that is only what
> is seen on a regular basis in these news groups.
>
> Justin Clark wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I was wondering if anyone can give me an approximate idea as to how many
> > povray users there are right now?
> >
> > -Justin
>
> --
> Mr. Art
>
> "Often the appearance of reality is more important
> than the reality of the appearance."
> Bill DeWitt 2000

Post a reply to this message

Ken wrote:

> Monthly Totals for the month of November 1999
>
> Total Hits              2,922,863
> Files Downloaded        2,565,378
> Pages Accessed          1,206,595
> Bandwidth in KBytes    74,387,415

    Which brings up a question, where the hell are they? By the 1/10th of 1%
rule there should be 2900 entries to the IRTC. And even 1/100th of 1% aren't
there.

    Not that I am encouraging them...

--
The question is not, "Who will let me do it?"
The question is, "Who will stop me?"

Post a reply to this message

500,000.
This sounds about right to me.
I once 'tried' to calculate this number (of users)
and this is the approximate number I came up with.

WCFM (What Counts For Me) and my efforts I would
add 500,003.

Hey, It's a start.

Peter Warren
war### [at] hotmailcom

Post a reply to this message

Ken wrote:

> The statistics for the POV-Ray home page at - http://www.povray.org
> 
> Daily Averages for the month of November 1999
> 
> Total Hits                 97,428
> Files Downloaded           85,479
> Pages Accessed             40,219

This isn't just a count of the various POV-Ray packages, but also all
the HTML documents (Pages Accessed, inflated further by the use of
frames) and associated graphics (most of the difference between Files
Downloaded and Pages Accessed).  Adjust by a factor of 10 or 20 to
calculate how many people visited the sites (repeat visitors within a
given month most likely using cached files).

-Mark Gordon

Post a reply to this message

Mark Gordon wrote:
> 
> Ken wrote:
> 
> > The statistics for the POV-Ray home page at - http://www.povray.org
> >
> > Daily Averages for the month of November 1999
> >
> > Total Hits                 97,428
> > Files Downloaded           85,479
> > Pages Accessed             40,219
> 
> This isn't just a count of the various POV-Ray packages, but also all
> the HTML documents (Pages Accessed, inflated further by the use of
> frames) and associated graphics (most of the difference between Files
> Downloaded and Pages Accessed).  Adjust by a factor of 10 or 20 to
> calculate how many people visited the sites (repeat visitors within a
> given month most likely using cached files).
> 
> -Mark Gordon

Like I said the stats are almost useless for determining the POV-Ray
user base. Even your best guess could easily be off by 30% -40% or
more.

-- 
Ken Tyler -  1300+ Povray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/

Post a reply to this message

As you might have noticed I made a mistake in the first try, if that's possible
to mistake a complete guess, by dividing wrong.  The number comes out to 50,000
and not 500,000.  Somehow I can't imagine a half million people are using, or
have used POV-Ray.  That's a large number.  Especially if you consider there
might be about 100 million computer users worldwide, that would be %0.5 or 1 out
of 200 people.  Unlikely I think.

Bob

"Peter Warren" <int### [at] halcyoncom> wrote in message
news:38956d20@news.povray.org...
| 500,000.
| This sounds about right to me.
| I once 'tried' to calculate this number (of users)
| and this is the approximate number I came up with.
|
| WCFM (What Counts For Me) and my efforts I would
| add 500,003.
|
| Hey, It's a start.
|
| Peter Warren
| war### [at] hotmailcom
|
|
|

Post a reply to this message

Pavel Rumyantsev wrote:
>I think, that many people read these
>newsgroups, but only a little part of
>them write in these newsgroups.

I think so too.

I also think that the people who read
these newsgroups are only a little
part of all the POV-Ray users.

Somewhere on www.povray.org there's a
list with all the newsgroups, but I
think it's too difficult to find the
page with that list.
I think it should be linked to from
either the menu bar or the home page,
like it was once. That will make new
users more aware of these groups.

Greetings,

Rune

---
Updated January 24: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!

Post a reply to this message

I think they are all so in awe at the entries they see that
they choose not to embarrass themselves, in other words, the
standards are rather high, and the learning curve on POV-Ray
rather steep :-) .

HB



Matt Giwer <jul### [at] ijnet> wrote in message news:362C57DF.C453B841@ij.net...
>
>     Which brings up a question, where the hell are they? By the 1/10th of
1%
> rule there should be 2900 entries to the IRTC. And even 1/100th of 1%
aren't
> there.
>
>     Not that I am encouraging them...
>
> --
> The question is not, "Who will let me do it?"
> The question is, "Who will stop me?"
>
>

Post a reply to this message

I wouldn't want to hazard a guestimate, however some things to
consider are:
1. Some users, like my son, have never visited the web site.
2. Many users started using POV before there was a web site :-)
3. POV-Ray has been included in magazines and books.

So the higher estimates may not be far off

Harold



Bob Hughes <omn### [at] hotmailcom?subject=PoV-News:> wrote in message
news:3895ea31@news.povray.org...
> As you might have noticed I made a mistake in the first try, if that's
possible
> to mistake a complete guess, by dividing wrong.  The number comes out to
50,000
> and not 500,000.  Somehow I can't imagine a half million people are using,
or
> have used POV-Ray.  That's a large number.  Especially if you consider
there
> might be about 100 million computer users worldwide, that would be %0.5 or
1 out
> of 200 people.  Unlikely I think.
>
> Bob

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:01:28 -0600, "Bob Hughes"
<omn### [at] hotmailcom?subject=PoV-News:> wrote:

>As you might have noticed I made a mistake in the first try, if that's possible
>to mistake a complete guess, by dividing wrong.  The number comes out to 50,000
>and not 500,000.  Somehow I can't imagine a half million people are using, or
>have used POV-Ray.  That's a large number.  Especially if you consider there
>might be about 100 million computer users worldwide, that would be %0.5 or 1 out
>of 200 people.  Unlikely I think.
>
>Bob

If there were another POV user in Bulgaria I would have heard about
him or her by now. This makes 1 in 8 million where I live. Unlikely I
think :)


Peter Popov
pet### [at] usanet
ICQ: 15002700

Post a reply to this message

>If there were another POV user in Bulgaria I would have heard about
>him or her by now. This makes 1 in 8 million where I live. Unlikely I
>think :)


The best I got was a Lightwave user that had heard of POV. Since then, I've
never met anyone who has even heard of it. I tried to persuade a friend of
mine, but he's in love with 3D Studio Max. :(

Post a reply to this message

TonyB wrote in message <38965706@news.povray.org>...
>
>The best I got was a Lightwave user that had heard of POV. Since then, I've
>never met anyone who has even heard of it. I tried to persuade a friend of
>mine, but he's in love with 3D Studio Max. :(
>


I've got two friends who use or have used pov. The one was the person who
encouraged me to start. He stopped rendering quite a while ago. The other
is still raytracing, though he uses moray exclusively.

One of those is still in south africa, the other has moved to the usa.

Gail

Post a reply to this message

Peter Popov wrote:

> If there were another POV user in Bulgaria I would have heard about
> him or her by now. This makes 1 in 8 million where I live. Unlikely I
> think :)
>

Everytime I do a public lecture about my POV work (happens a couple of times a year),
there's always at least one person who's using it too in the attendance. It is often
surprising. I've discovered for instance that some teachers use it to teach maths to
kids. People who are not internet-savvy just do not know about the newsgroups or the
povray page and do their own pov stuff ignoring the community out there. There are
also people who have to do a quick 3D stuff at work, spend a day learning the basics,
turn out the couple of spheres they need, and that's all.
Unlike commercial packages, who tend to appeal to certain definite crowds, POV seems
very versatile in that respect. It's a strange phenomenon actually.

G.

Post a reply to this message

I once spent a long, awkward day in NY City with my wife and a male friend of
hers from Germany.  Then late in the afternoon, sitting in the Egyptian room of
one of those museums, he said something about wishing to make photographs of
the temples to make textures available to people, for "puvereighya".  I almost
ignored the comment, until I realized he was talking about what I had been
awkwardly calling the "persistence of vision tracer." We were best friends from
that instant on..


Ken, does your web site counter track unique individuals or just hits?


TonyB wrote:

> >If there were another POV user in Bulgaria I would have heard about
> >him or her by now. This makes 1 in 8 million where I live. Unlikely I
> >think :)
>
> The best I got was a Lightwave user that had heard of POV. Since then, I've
> never met anyone who has even heard of it. I tried to persuade a friend of
> mine, but he's in love with 3D Studio Max. :(

Post a reply to this message

"Greg M. Johnson" wrote:

> Ken, does your web site counter track unique individuals or just hits?

It's your basic WYSIWYG hit counter with no reporting mechanism.

-- 
Ken Tyler -  1300+ Povray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/

Post a reply to this message

If it is of any use to you or anyone, theCounter.com can give statistics on
"unique" vists, which I think means that it only counts the first visit of
every different user.  See the statistics for my page(s) at:

http://www.TheCounter.com/counter/50671.vmain?1
http://www.TheCounter.com/counter/352816.vmain?1


Ken wrote:

> "Greg M. Johnson" wrote:
>
> > Ken, does your web site counter track unique individuals or just hits?
>
> It's your basic WYSIWYG hit counter with no reporting mechanism.
>
> --
> Ken Tyler -  1300+ Povray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
> http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/

Post a reply to this message

"Rune" wrote in message
> Pavel Rumyantsev wrote:
> >I think, that many people read these
> >newsgroups, but only a little part of
> >them write in these newsgroups.
>
> I think so too.
>
> I also think that the people who read
> these newsgroups are only a little
> part of all the POV-Ray users.
>
> Somewhere on www.povray.org there's a
> list with all the newsgroups, but I
> think it's too difficult to find the
> page with that list.
> I think it should be linked to from
> either the menu bar or the home page,
> like it was once. That will make new
> users more aware of these groups.
>
> Greetings,
>
> Rune
>

I totaly agree with you....

Ambis

Post a reply to this message

Rune wrote:

> Pavel Rumyantsev wrote:
> >I think, that many people read these
> >newsgroups, but only a little part of
> >them write in these newsgroups.
>
> I think so too.
>
> I also think that the people who read
> these newsgroups are only a little
> part of all the POV-Ray users.
>

This is a facinating thread, but trying to determine how many people use
POV would be like trying to find out how many people drive "Volkswagons"
by counting the number of people that belong to "VW" car clubs.
(enter the car of your choice)

--
  ,-._|\  Alex McMurray
 /  Oz  \ ale### [at] melbpcorgau               Melbourne PC User Group.
 \_,--.x/ P.O. Box 215 Melton. Vic.  3337                     Australia
       v

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 01 Feb 2000 17:02:09 +0100, Gilles Tran <tra### [at] inapginrafr>
wrote:

>Peter Popov wrote:
>
>> If there were another POV user in Bulgaria I would have heard about
>> him or her by now. This makes 1 in 8 million where I live. Unlikely I
>> think :)
>>
>
>Everytime I do a public lecture about my POV work (happens a couple of times a year),
>there's always at least one person who's using it too in the attendance. It is often
>surprising. I've discovered for instance that some teachers use it to teach maths to
>kids. People who are not internet-savvy just do not know about the newsgroups or the
>povray page and do their own pov stuff ignoring the community out there. There are
>also people who have to do a quick 3D stuff at work, spend a day learning the basics,
>turn out the couple of spheres they need, and that's all.
>Unlike commercial packages, who tend to appeal to certain definite crowds, POV seems
>very versatile in that respect. It's a strange phenomenon actually.
>
>G.

Yes, but around here you can get MAX 3.0 for $8.0 . Most amateur 3D
artists don't consider the price a hindrance for their carreer <grin>.

And no, I have never pirated MAX. Honestly.


Peter Popov
pet### [at] usanet
ICQ: 15002700

Post a reply to this message

Yeah, but still, it's not like it's under 1000 people or over 1000 million.
Somewhere in-between.  Like maybe 10,000 to 100,000 people that have a used copy
of PoV...  Just can't seem to let my guestimating go  :-)

Bob

"Alex McMurray" <ale### [at] melbpcorgau> wrote in message
news:38976A37.BED8486B@melbpc.org.au...
| Rune wrote:
|
| > Pavel Rumyantsev wrote:
| > >I think, that many people read these
| > >newsgroups, but only a little part of
| > >them write in these newsgroups.
| >
| > I think so too.
| >
| > I also think that the people who read
| > these newsgroups are only a little
| > part of all the POV-Ray users.
| >
|
| This is a facinating thread, but trying to determine how many people use
| POV would be like trying to find out how many people drive "Volkswagons"
| by counting the number of people that belong to "VW" car clubs.
| (enter the car of your choice)

Post a reply to this message

Peter Popov wrote in message ...

>And no, I have never pirated MAX. Honestly.


Have you ever pirated it dishonestly?  :-)

Mark

Post a reply to this message

Can I write you a check for $10 for a legal copy?

Peter Popov wrote:

> On Tue, 01 Feb 2000 17:02:09 +0100, Gilles Tran <tra### [at] inapginrafr>
> wrote:
>
> Yes, but around here you can get MAX 3.0 for $8.0 . Most amateur 3D
> artists don't consider the price a hindrance for their carreer <grin>.
>
> And no, I have never pirated MAX. Honestly.
>
> Peter Popov
> pet### [at] usanet
> ICQ: 15002700

Post a reply to this message

Me too?

"Greg M. Johnson" <gre### [at] my-dejanewscom> wrote in message
news:38983A38.DE83C0AD@my-dejanews.com...
> Can I write you a check for $10 for a legal copy?
>
> Peter Popov wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 01 Feb 2000 17:02:09 +0100, Gilles Tran <tra### [at] inapginrafr>
> > wrote:
> >
> > Yes, but around here you can get MAX 3.0 for $8.0 . Most amateur 3D
> > artists don't consider the price a hindrance for their carreer <grin>.
> >
> > And no, I have never pirated MAX. Honestly.
> >
> > Peter Popov
> > pet### [at] usanet
> > ICQ: 15002700
>
>
>

Post a reply to this message

On Wed, 02 Feb 2000 09:07:52 -0500, "Greg M. Johnson"
<gre### [at] my-dejanewscom> wrote:

>Can I write you a check for $10 for a legal copy?

Seriously, the availability of warez here is unbelievable. As my
father (who, aside from FreeCell, only uses software written by my
brother :) ) says, "Paying $10 for Win98 here when it costs $200 in
the US is piracy, but why being paid $100 here when you'd be paid
$2000 in the US is NOT considered piracy?" I totally agree.

I haven't pirated MAX not because of fear of the law or the feeling of
guilt. Were thesemajor factors here, only a few hundred people in the
whole country would be using computers. I haven't because of
principles. Someone once gave me a CDR with MAX on it. I read the
setup notes and there were things like "Pentium 90 is the vital
minuimum" (486/80 at the time), "1024x768 in hi-or tru-color"
(640x480x256 back then), "400 MB free space for installation" (1.2 Gb
disc) and "Approx. three times more swap than ram, so 300 MB should be
fine." No, thanks.


Peter Popov
pet### [at] usanet
ICQ: 15002700

Post a reply to this message

Peter Popov wrote:

> On Wed, 02 Feb 2000 09:07:52 -0500, "Greg M. Johnson"
> <gre### [at] my-dejanewscom> wrote:
>
> >Can I write you a check for $10 for a legal copy?
>
> Seriously, the availability of warez here is unbelievable. As my
> father (who, aside from FreeCell, only uses software written by my
> brother :) ) says, "Paying $10 for Win98 here when it costs $200 in
> the US is piracy, but why being paid $100 here when you'd be paid
> $2000 in the US is NOT considered piracy?" I totally agree.

So wait, is $8 for a legal or illegal copy?

--
Homepage: http://www.faricy.net/~davidf/
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"Peter Popov" <pet### [at] usanet> wrote :
>
> >Can I write you a check for $10 for a legal copy?
>
> Seriously, the availability of warez here is unbelievable.

    See, I thought you were talking about $8 for a -legal- copy. I don't
keep up with MAX, so I sort of figured we were talking about an old version
or something.

    I have MAX of some sort on a CD somewhere. But since it was illegally
copied for me I looked at it and now do not use it. I have a couple of legal
things like Corel RayDream(?) that I don't use. I am quite happy with POV.

    I like being able to write it all by hand. Not the least because I can
take a notebook to work with me and scribble some things while I have a
quiet period.

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Bob Hughes wrote:

> Yeah, but still, it's not like it's under 1000 people or over 1000 million.
> Somewhere in-between.  Like maybe 10,000 to 100,000 people that have a used copy
> of PoV...  Just can't seem to let my guestimating go  :-)
>
> Bob
>

Maybe you are using the same equations that the government departmensts use when
they tell us that the majority of people "want" prices and taxes to rise <g>

--
  ,-._|\  Alex McMurray
 /  Oz  \ ale### [at] melbpcorgau               Melbourne PC User Group.
 \_,--.x/ P.O. Box 215 Melton. Vic.  3337                     Australia
       v

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"Alex McMurray" <ale### [at] melbpcorgau> wrote in message
news:3898D4E2.DACC4B56@melbpc.org.au...
| Maybe you are using the same equations that the government departmensts use
when
| they tell us that the majority of people "want" prices and taxes to rise <g>

That's it!

Bob

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Same with me, I've had a bootleg copy (MAX) for years and have
never done more than start it and look at it. Sure glad
I didn't pay $2000 for it! On the other hand I've bought
Poser 2.0 and 4.0 and have only used them to export shapes
to POV-Ray, and only three times at that. The value of
software is a strange thing, and nothing will ever come
close to POV-Ray!

Harold


Bill DeWitt <the### [at] earthlinknet> wrote in message
news:3898bc8b@news.povray.org...
>
>     I have MAX of some sort on a CD somewhere. But since it was illegally
> copied for me I looked at it and now do not use it. I have a couple of
legal
> things like Corel RayDream(?) that I don't use. I am quite happy with POV.
>
>     I like being able to write it all by hand. Not the least because I can
> take a notebook to work with me and scribble some things while I have a
> quiet period.
>

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On Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:46:36 -0500, TonyB <ben### [at] panamac-comnet> wrote:
>>If there were another POV user in Bulgaria I would have heard about
>>him or her by now. This makes 1 in 8 million where I live. Unlikely I
>>think :)
>
>
>The best I got was a Lightwave user that had heard of POV. Since then, I've
>never met anyone who has even heard of it. I tried to persuade a friend of
>mine, but he's in love with 3D Studio Max. :(
>

I actually met another person face to face once who had used PovRay, or so he
said, he proceded to show me his work, and guess what he'd rendered the 
example scenes and was very proud of them aswell. I doubt he uses Pov, he's 
got the attention span of a goldfish.

I did used to know a guy who did some really good stuff on the Amiga in Real3D,
Imagin and I think he got a copy of LightWave in the end.

I once gave a diskett copy of POV to an art teacher, by now he and some of his
students might be using it, but they don't have net access where they are.

-- 
Cheers
Steve              email mailto:sjl### [at] ndirectcouk

%HAV-A-NICEDAY Error not enough coffee  0 pps. 

web http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~sjlen/

or  http://start.at/zero-pps

 11:36pm  up  8:14,  3 users,  load average: 2.00, 2.09, 2.09

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I went to the Linux counter page http://counter.li.org/ and was
amazed that a higher percentage of gulgarians per head of population
use Linux than the US or UK.  

-- 
Cheers
Steve              email mailto:sjl### [at] ndirectcouk

%HAV-A-NICEDAY Error not enough coffee  0 pps. 

web http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~sjlen/

or  http://start.at/zero-pps

 11:36pm  up  8:14,  3 users,  load average: 2.00, 2.09, 2.09

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Peter Popov wrote:

> On Wed, 02 Feb 2000 09:07:52 -0500, "Greg M. Johnson"
> <gre### [at] my-dejanewscom> wrote:
>
> >Can I write you a check for $10 for a legal copy?
>
> Seriously, the availability of warez here is unbelievable. As my
> father (who, aside from FreeCell, only uses software written by my
> brother :) ) says, "Paying $10 for Win98 here when it costs $200 in
> the US is piracy, but why being paid $100 here when you'd be paid
> $2000 in the US is NOT considered piracy?" I totally agree.
>
> I haven't pirated MAX not because of fear of the law or the feeling of
> guilt. Were thesemajor factors here, only a few hundred people in the
> whole country would be using computers. I haven't because of
> principles. Someone once gave me a CDR with MAX on it. I read the
> setup notes and there were things like "Pentium 90 is the vital
> minuimum" (486/80 at the time), "1024x768 in hi-or tru-color"
> (640x480x256 back then), "400 MB free space for installation" (1.2 Gb
> disc) and "Approx. three times more swap than ram, so 300 MB should be
> fine." No, thanks.

    I find the piracy discussion always amusing. Way back when meaning
1980 or so I developed the motto, if it is digital it is mine.

    If you can not pirate something you are a newbie.

    The intelligent companies have always recognized that. In fact even
Adobe has released a free version of Photoshop that excludes the
professional printing functions as the professionals can not afford to be
caught stealing. You have to search for it a bit but anyone buying imaging
software has probably found it for free on some CD they have.

    The other side is that US software is priced in US dollars. For at
least 75% of the world, charging that price means they have to charge the
average Rwandan ten years income for Win98 or the like. They wink when it
benefits them but object for profit.

    The big guys want control of the grey market. They make a big show in
Chine where a normal US suite of software costs a life's wages compared to
local prices for local computers withotu the US markup.

    I am from the era that said software wants to be free which is the
Linux/GNU credo.

    I do not care in the least about these newcomers who think they can
patent a do-loop, which is on the books by the way.

    The most obvious prediction right now about Linux is that it is a
matter of time before one of the big guys clams they own it by force of
litigation. That is the way it has been.

    It is like someone claiming to have invented the chisle and claiming a
sculture is an infringement of rights.

    But to real comparisons. When the US has minimum wage of a bit over $5
an hour and a maximum work week of 40 hours that is $200 or about the list
price of Win98. In other words it costs a minimum of a week's wages. So
tell me, who else can afford it? And why would they pay that much? Most
countries can not.

    But does anyone imagine Microsoft is cutting itself off of 75+% of the
world for US prices? In a pig's eye.


--
The question is not, "Who will let me do it?"
The question is, "Who will stop me?"
Offering an apology is easier than getting permission.

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Matt Giwer wrote:

>If you can not pirate something you are a newbie.

I'm a newbie!
F O R E V E R

Ingo

-- 
Photography: http://members.home.nl/ingoogni/
Pov-Ray    : http://members.home.nl/seed7/

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On 7 Feb 2000 07:04:48 -0500, ingo wrote:
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>
>>If you can not pirate something you are a newbie.
>
>I'm a newbie!
>F O R E V E R

There's a difference between "can not" and "will not."

-- 
These are my opinions.  I do NOT speak for the POV-Team.
The superpatch: http://www2.fwi.com/~parkerr/superpatch/
My other stuff: http://www2.fwi.com/~parkerr/traces.html

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Matt Giwer wrote:

>        But to real comparisons. When the US has minimum wage of a bit over
> $5

> an hour and a maximum work week of 40 hours that is $200 or about the list
> price of Win98. In other words it costs a minimum of a week's wages. So
> tell me, who else can afford it? And why would they pay that much? Most
> countries can not.

$200-tax-insurance-utilities-groceries-house/car/credit card payments=what?

--
___     ______________________________________________________
 | \     |_                 <dav### [at] faricynet> <ICQ 55354965>
 |_/avid |ontaine               http://www.faricy.net/~davidf/

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On 6 Feb 2000 21:56:46 -0500, sjl### [at] ndirectcouk (Steve) wrote:

>I went to the Linux counter page http://counter.li.org/ and was
>amazed that a higher percentage of gulgarians per head of population
>use Linux than the US or UK.  

Ahem... that would be Bulgarians Steve :)

Well, you shouldn't be wondering. First of all, we are prerry diy
folk. Also, legal NT is out of the reach of most companies and now
with the BSA sticking their noses everywhere no one would want to mess
with pirating software. Also, one has to consider that before the
reformations we were a very high-tech country (nuclear physics, optics
and lasers, space tech, biochem, military research and of course
computing). The thousands of unemployed programmers are looking into
the future, and for a country where Windows costs 5 minimal monthly
wages (or two average), the future is Linux. So there.


Peter Popov
pet### [at] usanet
ICQ: 15002700

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Peter Popov wrote:

> wages (or two average), the future is Linux. So there.

Where can I get a crack for Linux ?

-- 
Ken Tyler -  1300+ Povray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/

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Ken wrote:
> 
> Peter Popov wrote:
> 
> > wages (or two average), the future is Linux. So there.
> 
> Where can I get a crack for Linux ?

Hum...  I'd try the #warez channel on IRC.

-- 
Francois Labreque | Unfortunately, there's no such thing as a snooze
     flabreq      | button on a cat who wants breakfast.
        @         |      - Unattributed quote from rec.humor.funny
  attglobal.net

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On Mon, 07 Feb 2000 17:05:32 -0800, Ken <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote:

>
>
>Peter Popov wrote:
>
>> wages (or two average), the future is Linux. So there.
>
>Where can I get a crack for Linux ?

Here you go. (_|_)

And there's one esp. for Ian, ==(_|_)== :)


Peter Popov
pet### [at] usanet
ICQ: 15002700

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