NOPE. Simplistic one-liner data files. I need to understand how to read
a larger number of variables.  Should there be a carriage return/ how do
you accomodate for it/  CAN you put into a 2-D array?

Anyone else?

Chris Huff wrote:

> Look in the "fileio" folder in the demonstration scenes for some
> examples.

Post a reply to this message

Greg M. Johnson wrote:
> 
> I wish that the documentation better explained the syntax for #read and
> #write.
> 

it took me some time to understand this, but you need commas between 
*all* data file entries for #read to work correctly. That includes
commas 
at the ends of lines, too. 

I hope this helps

Post a reply to this message

That was the trick!  Will name next animation submission in honor of you!

 Was I negligent in not seeing this important detail in the documentation?

edna dornblazer wrote:

> Greg M. Johnson wrote:
> >
> > I wish that the documentation better explained the syntax for #read and
> > #write.
> >
>
> it took me some time to understand this, but you need commas between
> *all* data file entries for #read to work correctly. That includes
> commas
> at the ends of lines, too.
>
> I hope this helps

Post a reply to this message

Greg M. Johnson wrote:
> 
> I wish that the documentation better explained the syntax for #read
> and #write.
> 
> I have created a file of the positions and velocities of a number of
> particles, (34 particles at 350 time periods).  I have pasted the
> first four records from my file.

Generally, when I have an outside program generate data for POV-Ray,
I have the same program output a standard .INC file, with all of the
#declares, #locals, etc., needed for POV-Ray to parse the file directly.
This requires very little extra effort in the program that generates the
data, and the results parse a lot faster.

For instance, in my last IRTC entry, the insect parts were made of
bicubic patches, which I converted to meshes using a bit of macro
code.  I got tired of waiting for the macro to parse, so I modified the
macro to write the triangles to a file, in full POV syntax.  From then
on I merely #included the generated files, in place of the original
generating code.  Things parsed much more quickly.

Regards,
John

Post a reply to this message

John VanSickle <van### [at] erolscom> wrote:
: For instance, in my last IRTC entry, the insect parts were made of
: bicubic patches, which I converted to meshes

  I wonder why.

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

Post a reply to this message

"Greg M. Johnson" wrote:
> 
> That was the trick!  Will name next animation submission in honor of you!
> 
>  Was I negligent in not seeing this important detail in the documentation?

	A better question, why in the world would the interpreter
require a comma and CR/LF at the end of a line? I can't say I've
seen everything in my time but that is not a rational data set
requirement.

Post a reply to this message

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Matt Giwer <mgi### [at] giwersworldorg> wrote:
: 	A better question, why in the world would the interpreter
: require a comma and CR/LF at the end of a line? I can't say I've
: seen everything in my time but that is not a rational data set
: requirement.

  It doesn't require a comma and a CR/LF. It just requires a comma between
values. It couldn't care less about CR/LF's. It just ingores them.

: begin:vcard 

  Please don't post this vcard crap here.

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

Post a reply to this message

So, like how would you make your inc if you had two variables which were
[350][34] each?

Would your file generator literally say:

#declare position.x[1][1]=1;
#declare position.y[1][1]=2;
#declare position.z[1][1]=3;
#declare position.x[1][2]=4;
#declare position.y[1][2]=5;
#declare position.z[1][2]=6;

I know how to write such a file, but wouldn't this make it a huge INC?  Are
you sure this is faster than reading with a #while loop the following data:

 1,2,3,4,5,6,


John VanSickle wrote:

> Greg M. Johnson wrote:
> >
> > I wish that the documentation better explained the syntax for #read
> > and #write.
> >
> > I have created a file of the positions and velocities of a number of
> > particles, (34 particles at 350 time periods).  I have pasted the
> > first four records from my file.
>
> Generally, when I have an outside program generate data for POV-Ray,
> I have the same program output a standard .INC file, with all of the
> #declares, #locals, etc., needed for POV-Ray to parse the file directly.
> This requires very little extra effort in the program that generates the
> data, and the results parse a lot faster.
>
> For instance, in my last IRTC entry, the insect parts were made of
> bicubic patches, which I converted to meshes using a bit of macro
> code.  I got tired of waiting for the macro to parse, so I modified the
> macro to write the triangles to a file, in full POV syntax.  From then
> on I merely #included the generated files, in place of the original
> generating code.  Things parsed much more quickly.
>
> Regards,
> John

Post a reply to this message

One more comment:  I am pretty sure the error message said something about an
unexpected PRESENCE of a comma; my problem was ultimately the
unexpected ABSENCE of a comma. I think if I had seen a different message, I would have
fixed the problem in a matter of minutes.

Is the error message stream correct?

Greg M. Johnson wrote:

> I wish that the documentation better explained the syntax for #read and
> #write.
>
> I have created a file of the positions and velocities of a number of
> particles, (34 particles at 350 time periods).  I have pasted the first
> four records from my file.
>
> 0,0,2.82488,1.88872,1.28931,-0.528847,-0.0413402,-0.84771
> 0,1,4.52083,2,3.26511,0.180401,-0.87059,-0.457743
> 0,2,2.46931,-1.21869,-0.8285,-0.187654,-0.372504,-0.90886
> 0,3,-2.75538,0.609548,-1.23555,-0.440196,-0.39602,-0.805851
>
> The text file has the carriage returns already in it, as you can see. I
> successfully used the following command to write this file:
>
> #write
>
(MyFile2,tt,",",n,",",actorp[n][0].x,",",actorp[n][0].y,",",actorp[n][0].z,",",actorv[n][0].x,",",actorv[n][0].y,",",actorv[n][0].z,"\n"
>
> )
>
> But when I try to read the file, either superpatch for 3.1a crashes, or
> it says something about expecting a variable but seeing a comma
> instead.  I want to load this huge file into memory into two different
> arrays, each with two subscripts.
>
> According to my interpretation of the debug stream, when the program
> gets into the second line of variables, it hangs up on about the third
> variable. I am trying the following commands to read the file:
>
> #fopen MyFile2 "c:\pov31\include\traillist.txt" read
> #declare tt=0    ;
> #while (tt<350*clock+1)
> #declare n=0    ;
> #while (n<num)
> #debug "yeehah"
> #read (MyFile2,l,m,px,py,pz,vx,vy,vz)
>  #debug str(l,2,2)
>  #debug str(m,2,2)
>  #debug str(px,2,2)
>  #debug str(py,2,2)
>  #debug str(pz,2,2)
>  #debug str(vx,2,2)
>  #debug str(vy,2,2)
>  #debug str(vz,2,2)
> #declare actorp[tt][n]=<px,py,pz>;
> #declare actorv[tt][n]=<vx,vy,vz>;
> #declare n=n+1   ;
> #end
>
> #declare tt=tt+1;
> #end
>
> #fclose Myfile2
>
> Thanks for any possible help.   This "one hour" doofy project turned
> into a twelve hour battle with the software! I suspect the problem is
> in the use of two-dimensional arrays, as a much simpler,
> one-dimenstional array "reading" project works great.   If I may
> politely state so,  the 3.1a documentation preaches to the choir too
> often on syntax and rarely gives enough examples of how to actually use
> the terms. In this case, I don't know how to read my file.

Post a reply to this message

Nieminen Mika wrote:

> Matt Giwer <mgi### [at] giwersworldorg> wrote:
> :       A better question, why in the world would the interpreter
> : require a comma and CR/LF at the end of a line? I can't say I've
> : seen everything in my time but that is not a rational data set
> : requirement.

>   It doesn't require a comma and a CR/LF. It just requires a comma between
> values. It couldn't care less about CR/LF's. It just ingores them.

	That is the point. Absent the CR/LF any one corrupt data point
can currupt the entire result as everything is shifted only
point. Data number 23 replaces population value 290000 and
everything propagates in error from their on. But with CR/LF a
faulty data line is reported instantly. 

	As I said, rational data set. 	

> : begin:vcard

>   Please don't post this vcard crap here.

	When the POV-team post that rule, I will delate it. Until then,
take it up with Mozilla. 

> --
> main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
> ):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

	Please don't post that! Or are requests one way? 

	If you have a problem, remember the Canadian Bacon grafitti. 

-- 
<blink>-------please--don't-----------------</blink>

http://www.giwersworld.org/artii/
http://www.giwersworld.org/artiii/

Finally up on 99/06/22 updated 07/13

Post a reply to this message

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On Mon, 09 Aug 1999 11:03:52 -0400, Matt Giwer wrote:
>> --
>> main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
>> ):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/
>
>	Please don't post that! Or are requests one way? 


The difference: Warp's signature is 2 lines.  Way below the McQuary Limit.
Yours is six lines, which is already in excess of the limit, plus a mostly-
useless MIME attachment that eats up another 22 lines and incidentally adds
an extra step to reading your postings with text-mode newsreaders such as
slrn (which I use) that want to do the right thing with MIME-formatted 
postings.  Just because some idiot at Nutscrape doesn't understand USENET 
culture doesn't mean you have to meekly follow along.

Post a reply to this message

On 9 Aug 1999 11:28:19 -0400, par### [at] fwicom (Ron Parker) wrote:

>On Mon, 09 Aug 1999 11:03:52 -0400, Matt Giwer wrote:
>>> --
>>> main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
>>> ):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/
>>
>>	Please don't post that! Or are requests one way? 
>
>
>The difference: Warp's signature is 2 lines.  Way below the McQuary Limit.
>Yours is six lines, which is already in excess of the limit, plus a mostly-
>useless MIME attachment that eats up another 22 lines and incidentally adds
>an extra step to reading your postings with text-mode newsreaders such as
>slrn (which I use) that want to do the right thing with MIME-formatted 
>postings.  Just because some idiot at Nutscrape doesn't understand USENET 
>culture doesn't mean you have to meekly follow along.

Ys, the vcf card is something of an annoyance.  I have Agent set up to save
attachments
and every now and again I have to delete all those dratted vcf cards.  There is a
temptation to filter out the offending users, but I have resisted this because this
would
mean missing some of Matt's more interesting postings :-)
David
------------
dav### [at] cwcomnet
http://www.hamiltonite.mcmail.com
------------

Post a reply to this message

Nieminen Mika wrote:
> 
> John VanSickle <van### [at] erolscom> wrote:
> : For instance, in my last IRTC entry, the insect parts were made of
> : bicubic patches, which I converted to meshes
> 
>   I wonder why.

Most of the bug parts had 12 bicubic patches in them, but others had
16, and I think one has 20.  There are 128 triangles per patch, and each
bug had roughly 30,000 triangles in it.  The use of meshes achieved a
memory savings of about 4.5 megs per bug.

They also parsed more quickly this way.

Regards,
John

Post a reply to this message

Mat

It's very annoying, and the information on both your own card and
that of SamuelT another offender could be put in text format
without taking up so much bandwidth.  

Most annoying is when I've got a render going and I'm reading
news groups and every time I open one of your messages, the
message comes up and then I see something else loading, scrole to
the bottom of the message and it's a bloody VCard.  

I havn't mentioned this before, because I feel that your
contributions to these groups are positive.  

Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> Nieminen Mika wrote:
> 
> > Matt Giwer <mgi### [at] giwersworldorg> wrote:
> > :       A better question, why in the world would the interpreter
> > : require a comma and CR/LF at the end of a line? I can't say I've
> > : seen everything in my time but that is not a rational data set
> > : requirement.
> 
> >   It doesn't require a comma and a CR/LF. It just requires a comma between
> > values. It couldn't care less about CR/LF's. It just ingores them.
> 
>         That is the point. Absent the CR/LF any one corrupt data point
> can currupt the entire result as everything is shifted only
> point. Data number 23 replaces population value 290000 and
> everything propagates in error from their on. But with CR/LF a
> faulty data line is reported instantly.
> 
>         As I said, rational data set.
> 
> > : begin:vcard
> 
> >   Please don't post this vcard crap here.
> 
>         When the POV-team post that rule, I will delate it. Until then,
> take it up with Mozilla.
> 
> > --
> > main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
> > ):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/
> 
>         Please don't post that! Or are requests one way?
> 
>         If you have a problem, remember the Canadian Bacon grafitti.
> 
> --
> <blink>-------please--don't-----------------</blink>
> 
> http://www.giwersworld.org/artii/
> http://www.giwersworld.org/artiii/
> 
> Finally up on 99/06/22 updated 07/13

-- 
Cheers
Steve

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
%HAV-A-NICEDAY Error reading file mailto:sjl### [at] ndirectcouk

Post a reply to this message

Greg M. Johnson wrote:
> 
> John VanSickle wrote:
> 
> > Greg M. Johnson wrote:
> > >
> > > I wish that the documentation better explained the syntax for
> > > #read and #write.
> > >
> > > I have created a file of the positions and velocities of a number
> > > of particles, (34 particles at 350 time periods).  I have pasted
> > > the first four records from my file.
> >
> > Generally, when I have an outside program generate data for POV-Ray,
> > I have the same program output a standard .INC file, with all of the
> > #declares, #locals, etc., needed for POV-Ray to parse the file
> > directly. This requires very little extra effort in the program that
> > generates the data, and the results parse a lot faster.
> >
> > For instance, in my last IRTC entry, the insect parts were made of
> > bicubic patches, which I converted to meshes using a bit of macro
> > code.  I got tired of waiting for the macro to parse, so I modified
> > the macro to write the triangles to a file, in full POV syntax.
> > From then on I merely #included the generated files, in place of the
> > original generating code.  Things parsed much more quickly.

> So, like how would you make your inc if you had two variables which
> were [350][34] each?
> 
> Would your file generator literally say:
> 
> #declare position.x[1][1]=1;
> #declare position.y[1][1]=2;
> #declare position.z[1][1]=3;
> #declare position.x[1][2]=4;
> #declare position.y[1][2]=5;
> #declare position.z[1][2]=6;

No, the file generator can also dump out the following:

#declare position=array[350][34] = {
  { <1,2,3>,<4,5,6>, ... }, {... }, ...
}

The PovRay code would look like this:

// START OF SAMPLE BASIC CODE

#write(MyFile,"#declare position=array[", ROWS, "][", COLUMNS, "] = {\n")
#local iI=0; #while(iI<ROWS)
  #if (iI>0) #write(MyFile,",") #end
  #write(MyFile,"{ ")
  #local iJ=0; #while(iJ<COLUMNS)
    #if (iJ>0) #write(MyFile,",") #end
    #write(MyFile,MyDataArray[iI][iJ])
  #local iJ=iJ+1; #end
  #write(MyFile, " }\n" )
#local iI=iI+1; #end
#write(MyFile, "}\n" )

// END OF SAMPLE CODE

Your file generating program can print out the #declares, square
brackets, angle brackets, squiggly brackets, commas, and so forth.

The only difficulty is that if you want to have text data in there as
well, you have to explicitly print out the quotes with the CHR$()
function:

  #write(MyFile, "#declare MyString="; CHR$(34); "Stormbringer";
    CHR$(34); "\n")

which will create a line of text that looks like this:

  #declare MyString="Stormbringer"

You can feed a vector to the #write() directive as well; my example does.

  #write(MyFile,x-y+z*3)

will cause the string

  < 1,-1, 3>

to be written to MyFile.  There is no need to bust up the vectors into
scalars, only to build them back up later.

Of course, keeping track of the brackets and quotation marks can be
a bit of a trick. :-)

> I know how to write such a file, but wouldn't this make it a huge INC?

As you can see from my response, it will not be very much larger than
the file you already plan to use.  It might be twice as big, but that's
what we have hard drives for.

> Are you sure this is faster than reading with a #while loop the
> following data:
> 
>  1,2,3,4,5,6,

Yes, it is much faster.  The file is generated in a form the parser
already knows how to understand; the other method you discuss goes
through a #while-#end loop, which takes extra time in any interpreted
language.

Hope this helps,
John

Post a reply to this message

What can a vcard do that a sig can't, anyway?

Margus

Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         When the POV-team post that rule, I will delate it. Until then,
> take it up with Mozilla.
> 
>

Post a reply to this message

Margus Ramst wrote:
> 
> What can a vcard do that a sig can't, anyway?
> 
> Margus

Irritate people ?

-- 
Ken Tyler

See my 700+ Povray and 3D Rendering and Raytracing Links at:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 17:10:44 -0700, Ken <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote:
>Margus Ramst wrote:
>> 
>> What can a vcard do that a sig can't, anyway?
>> 
>> Margus
>
>Irritate people ?

As a counterexample I offer Warp's sig. >:)

Post a reply to this message

Oh yes it can. Don't even get me started here...

Margus

Ken wrote:
> 
> Margus Ramst wrote:
> >
> > What can a vcard do that a sig can't, anyway?
> >
> > Margus
> 
> Irritate people ?
> 
> --
> Ken Tyler
> 
> See my 700+ Povray and 3D Rendering and Raytracing Links at:
> http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html

Post a reply to this message

Steve wrote:

> Mat

> It's very annoying, and the information on both your own card and
> that of SamuelT another offender could be put in text format
> without taking up so much bandwidth.

	Taking up bandwidth. I haven't heard that one seriously
suggested in nearly ten years. In all my posts to all these
newsgroups on the POV server probably do not add up to one image
binary. 

> Most annoying is when I've got a render going and I'm reading
> news groups and every time I open one of your messages, the
> message comes up and then I see something else loading, scrole to
> the bottom of the message and it's a bloody VCard.

	Why would you be looking for an image except in the binaries
newsgroup? 

> I havn't mentioned this before, because I feel that your
> contributions to these groups are positive.

	Thank you for saying that but you can always filter me out. No
skin off my nose.

Post a reply to this message

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Margus Ramst wrote:

> What can a vcard do that a sig can't, anyway?

	I thought no one would ever ask. 

	For me it is a lack of annoyance. I appreciate them. What does
annoy me to no end is exactly the same sig words over and over
and over. And the more clever the faster the annoyance increases. 

	From the BBS days, one of the main selling points of the offline
readers was rotating sigs. 

	The Vcard is a different solution by encapsulating all the sig
words, read them if you wish and only if you wish. 

	There have always been problems of backwards campatibility of
new ideas with old.

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Ron Parker wrote:

> Just because some idiot at Nutscrape doesn't understand USENET
> culture doesn't mean you have to meekly follow along.

	When .com domains were permitted, internet culture began a
permanent change that will never turn back. In the last seven
years, the old "internet culture" has been reduced to 20% at most
if all students are counted regardless of using it or not, not
counting intranets. Four years ago I read some university-type
hand-wringing over the cost of converting to graphics terminals
to keep up with the changes. 

	I am hardly sympathetic to people who try to turn back the clock
by claiming a company with maybe 40% of the installed market
doesn't understand. And the other big chunck of the installed
market is Free Agent. Shall the world go backwards because
universities have not paid to move forward? 

	I don't see why this newsgroup should be used to debate the
merits of progress. If people want to use UNIX they take
everything that comes with it and does not come with it. If it
doesn't come with a newsreader compatible with current more
popular apps that is part of the consequences of using Unix. 

	So those of us who can use new features should not because of
what is not available in Unix? Was l&oumlaut;ss mit diese Bild?  

	BTW: ARPA probably still maintains my 1972 account. You know how
the government never throw things away. 

-- 
<blink>-------please--don't-----------------</blink>

http://www.giwersworld.org/artii/
http://www.giwersworld.org/artiii/

Finally up on 99/06/22 updated 07/13

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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> Steve wrote:
> 
> > Mat
> 
> > It's very annoying, and the information on both your own card and
> > that of SamuelT another offender could be put in text format
> > without taking up so much bandwidth.
> 
>         Taking up bandwidth. I haven't heard that one seriously
> suggested in nearly ten years. In all my posts to all these
> newsgroups on the POV server probably do not add up to one image
> binary.
> 
> > Most annoying is when I've got a render going and I'm reading
> > news groups and every time I open one of your messages, the
> > message comes up and then I see something else loading, scrole to
> > the bottom of the message and it's a bloody VCard.
> 
>         Why would you be looking for an image except in the binaries
> newsgroup?
> 
> > I havn't mentioned this before, because I feel that your
> > contributions to these groups are positive.
> 
>         Thank you for saying that but you can always filter me out. No
> skin off my nose.

Dear Matt:

Kindly go fuck yourself. Now.

Take your VCard with you.

Thank you.

-Xplo

Post a reply to this message

Xplo Eristotle wrote:

> Matt Giwer wrote:

> >         Thank you for saying that but you can always filter me out. No
> > skin off my nose.

> Dear Matt:

> Kindly go fuck yourself. Now.

> Take your VCard with you.

> Thank you.

	Have you considered the fact that some children do read this
newsgroup?

Post a reply to this message

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I'd hate to offend anyone, but aren't you the people who get all annoyed
when a thread gets way off topic?  Well this is off topic.  Take your
signatures and fight elsewhere.

Nieminen Mika wrote:
> 
> Matt Giwer <mgi### [at] giwersworldorg> wrote:
> :       A better question, why in the world would the interpreter
> : require a comma and CR/LF at the end of a line? I can't say I've
> : seen everything in my time but that is not a rational data set
> : requirement.
> 
>   It doesn't require a comma and a CR/LF. It just requires a comma between
> values. It couldn't care less about CR/LF's. It just ingores them.
> 
> : begin:vcard
> 
>   Please don't post this vcard crap here.
> 
> --
> main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
> ):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

Post a reply to this message

Nobody here appreciates your abuse of this server or them.  If you don't
have anything constructive to say, kindly packup and leave.  I'm sure the
owners of this server won't take kindly to your abuse of it or other
people...



Xplo Eristotle <inq### [at] unforgettablecom> wrote in message
news:37B### [at] unforgettablecom...
>
> Dear Matt:
>
> Kindly go fuck yourself. Now.
>
> Take your VCard with you.
>
> Thank you.
>
> -Xplo

Post a reply to this message

Matt Giwer <mgi### [at] giwersworldorg> wrote:
: 	Have you considered the fact that some children do read this
: newsgroup?

  Yes, it seems that there's at least one child reading this newsgroup: You.

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

Post a reply to this message

Ron Parker <par### [at] fwicom> wrote:
: As a counterexample I offer Warp's sig. >:)

  At least my sig can be posted without multipart mime-encoding...

  And anyways, it's a good signature. It has my nick. Twice. ;)

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

Post a reply to this message

Matt Giwer <mgi### [at] giwersworldorg> wrote:
: 	The Vcard is a different solution by encapsulating all the sig
: words, read them if you wish and only if you wish. 

  Only if you use certain brwosers to read the news.

: 	There have always been problems of backwards campatibility of
: new ideas with old.

  That's like saying that windows sucks because it can't run unix programs.
  Come on. Get a life.

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

Post a reply to this message

Thanks for the exhaustive reply.  I was about to ask what one could do if one
had TWO variables, but I guess that I can simply turn my two 3D arrays into
one 6D array.

John VanSickle wrote:

> Greg M. Johnson wrote:
> > So, like how would you make your inc if you had two variables which
> > were [350][34] each?
> >
> > Would your file generator literally say:
> >
> > #declare position.x[1][1]=1;
> > #declare position.y[1][1]=2;
> > #declare position.z[1][1]=3;
> > #declare position.x[1][2]=4;
> > #declare position.y[1][2]=5;
> > #declare position.z[1][2]=6;
>
> No, the file generator can also dump out the following:
>
> #declare position=array[350][34] = {
>   { <1,2,3>,<4,5,6>, ... }, {... }, ...
> }
>
> The PovRay code would look like this:
>
> // START OF SAMPLE BASIC CODE
>
> #write(MyFile,"#declare position=array[", ROWS, "][", COLUMNS, "] = {\n")
> #local iI=0; #while(iI<ROWS)
>   #if (iI>0) #write(MyFile,",") #end
>   #write(MyFile,"{ ")
>   #local iJ=0; #while(iJ<COLUMNS)
>     #if (iJ>0) #write(MyFile,",") #end
>     #write(MyFile,MyDataArray[iI][iJ])
>   #local iJ=iJ+1; #end
>   #write(MyFile, " }\n" )
> #local iI=iI+1; #end
> #write(MyFile, "}\n" )
>
> // END OF SAMPLE CODE
>
> Your file generating program can print out the #declares, square
> brackets, angle brackets, squiggly brackets, commas, and so forth.
>
> The only difficulty is that if you want to have text data in there as
> well, you have to explicitly print out the quotes with the CHR$()
> function:
>
>   #write(MyFile, "#declare MyString="; CHR$(34); "Stormbringer";
>     CHR$(34); "\n")
>
> which will create a line of text that looks like this:
>
>   #declare MyString="Stormbringer"
>
> You can feed a vector to the #write() directive as well; my example does.
>
>   #write(MyFile,x-y+z*3)
>
> will cause the string
>
>   < 1,-1, 3>
>
> to be written to MyFile.  There is no need to bust up the vectors into
> scalars, only to build them back up later.
>
> Of course, keeping track of the brackets and quotation marks can be
> a bit of a trick. :-)
>
> Hope this helps,
> John

Post a reply to this message

My browser can use html; those of many others cannot.  At first I thought it
was only the Luddites who were emailing me to complain that their stone-age
browsers weren't able to handle html.  Then I realized that I was guilty of
Micro-____-ism: inconveniencing others to accomodate my bells and whistles,
and calling it progress.  I later viewed it as a courtesy to the group not to

//resist
//resist
//resist the temptaiton to underline and boldface the next phrase with html
codes

*emphasize*

//whew, that was close!!

a word in every paragraph if it made things difficult for some friends with
outdated or no-frills browsers.




Matt Giwer wrote:

> Margus Ramst wrote:
>
> > What can a vcard do that a sig can't, anyway?
>
>         I thought no one would ever ask.
>
>         For me it is a lack of annoyance. I appreciate them. What does
> annoy me to no end is exactly the same sig words over and over
> and over. And the more clever the faster the annoyance increases.
>
>         From the BBS days, one of the main selling points of the offline
> readers was rotating sigs.
>
>         The Vcard is a different solution by encapsulating all the sig
> words, read them if you wish and only if you wish.
>
>         There have always been problems of backwards campatibility of
> new ideas with old.
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>   Matt Giwer <mgi### [at] giwersworldorg>
>   Owner
>   Images Incarnate
>
>   Matt Giwer
>   Owner                                      <mgi### [at] giwersworldorg>
>   Images Incarnate
>   14205 Nebraska Ave #27;Tampa;FL;33613;USA  Cellular: 813-694-3998
>                                              Work: 813-972-2574
>   Additional Information:
>   Last Name      Giwer
>   First Name     Matt
>   Version        2.1

Post a reply to this message

Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
> 
> Nobody here appreciates your abuse of this server or them.  If you don't
> have anything constructive to say, kindly packup and leave.  I'm sure the
> owners of this server won't take kindly to your abuse of it or other
> people...

To judge from the way Matt gets away with saying "if you don't like my
lousy netiquette, filter me", the owners of this server don't seem to
care.

I wonder if I could get Usenet posters to use this guy's email address
as spam bait. After all, if he doesn't want to receive all that spam, he
can just filter it.. no skin off his nose. :P

-Xplo

Post a reply to this message

Nieminen Mika wrote:

> Matt Giwer <mgi### [at] giwersworldorg> wrote:
> :       Have you considered the fact that some children do read this
> : newsgroup?

>   Yes, it seems that there's at least one child reading this newsgroup: You.

> --
> main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
> ):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

	If you do not like my posts, at least have the courtesy to shut
up. If you do not want to be boethered by them, filter them out. 

	I do not feel myself graced by complainers reading them. 

	Is this clear enough? 

	And if you can not have your way by everyone complying with your
wishes you are going to hurl insults, upon what do you base your
moral superiority save your love of your ancient tin? 

-- 
<blink>---please--don't---</blink>

http://www.giwersworld.org/artiii/

Oh my God! They've rendered Kenny!

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Xplo Eristotle wrote:

> To judge from the way Matt gets away with saying "if you don't like my
> lousy netiquette, filter me", the owners of this server don't seem to
> care.

	"Filter" is the power of any user. 

	And IF the owners tell me about it, fine. Then I can choose to
change or not to participate. That will be MY choice. 

	Your choice is to filter or not to filter. You read my posts on
my terms, not yours. 

> I wonder if I could get Usenet posters to use this guy's email address
> as spam bait. After all, if he doesn't want to receive all that spam, he
> can just filter it.. no skin off his nose. :P

	Not that is an interesting threat and your email addr as
instigtator is quite interesting. And your post is forwarded to
your ISP. 

	If I do not comply with the dicatations of mere users of this
you folks are going to get me spammed. 

	Let me tell you this, boy. IF that happens, you all will regret
it. And I can do it in a heartbeat. And I will not do one direct
thing. 

	Are petty little Hilters going to try to enforce your will on
everyone else or are you going to grow up and join the human
race? 

	You newcomers should never think you know what the internet is
all about.

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Nieminen Mika wrote:

> Ron Parker <par### [at] fwicom> wrote:
> : As a counterexample I offer Warp's sig. >:)

>   At least my sig can be posted without multipart mime-encoding...

	Is that a good thing or an old fart stick in the mud position? 

>   And anyways, it's a good signature. It has my nick. Twice. ;)

	And that is a good thing? To post something as a sig that only
those familar with obscure legal but unprofession C code can read
if they want to waste the time? 

	Please explain why and exercise in obscurity is a good thing. 

	Yes, you are very clever. Yes you are a horrible example of the
art of programming. 

-- 
<blink>---please--don't---</blink>

http://www.giwersworld.org/artiii/

Oh my God! They've rendered Kenny!

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On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:35:39 -0400, Matt Giwer wrote:
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>--------------353C53C99B3BCF3BB8CA77D4
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Ron Parker wrote:
>
>> Just because some idiot at Nutscrape doesn't understand USENET
>> culture doesn't mean you have to meekly follow along.
>
>	When .com domains were permitted, internet culture began a
>permanent change that will never turn back. 

Learn some history, then come tell me about the Internet.  If you
can find me.  It wasn't .com that changed the world, it was aol.com
and netscape.com in particular.  And it wasn't for the better.

>	I am hardly sympathetic to people who try to turn back the clock
>by claiming a company with maybe 40% of the installed market
>doesn't understand. And the other big chunck of the installed
>market is Free Agent. Shall the world go backwards because
>universities have not paid to move forward? 

Bzzzt.  trn is in the #2 spot, with almost as many users as Nutscrape.
In most non-alt groups, the proportion is higher for trn.

Post a reply to this message

Nieminen Mika wrote:

> Matt Giwer <mgi### [at] giwersworldorg> wrote:
> :       The Vcard is a different solution by encapsulating all the sig
> : words, read them if you wish and only if you wish.

>   Only if you use certain brwosers to read the news.

	Variety is something we cherish in the modern world. Only
Communists and Nazis said everyone had to be the same. 

	And you have a filter. USE IT! 

> :       There have always been problems of backwards campatibility of
> : new ideas with old.

>   That's like saying that windows sucks because it can't run unix programs.
>   Come on. Get a life.

	Use your filter to stop reading me instead of trying to play
hitlerite dictator. FILTER! FILTER! FILTER! And go away. 

> --
> main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
> ):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

	What a horrible example of programming. And BORING!

-- 
<blink>---please--don't---</blink>

http://www.giwersworld.org/artiii/

Oh my God! They've rendered Kenny!

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"Greg M. Johnson" wrote:

> My browser can use html; those of many others cannot.  At first I thought it
> was only the Luddites who were emailing me to complain that their stone-age
> browsers weren't able to handle html.  Then I realized that I was guilty of
> Micro-____-ism: inconveniencing others to accomodate my bells and whistles,
> and calling it progress.  I later viewed it as a courtesy to the group not to

	I am inconviencing no one with their high powered newsreaders.
They can all filter me out. If they choose to be inconvenienced
they have no business complaining. 

	If they WANT to read my posts then they put up with the
inconvenience. 

	So far I have been told there are all of exactly THREE people
who have a problem. 

	I do not care if no one reads what I post. 

	If you want to understand this all, go read The Fountainhead and
Atlas Shrugged. 

	How else explain my being "given a chance" to post without the
format they demand. Was that so nice of him in response to saying
FILTER? 

	Some clown with an anal fixation knowing children are reading
this wants to insert pages of the RFC because IN HIS OPINION not
the committee's it is non-compliant. Is that not cute? 

	And let me ask in general, how long these folks have been into
computers, programming, the ARPAnet? I have 32 years in October
and it would have been 34 years except I turned down a job offer
at Oak Ridge to finish college. Anyone here want to play, "match
the credentials"? 

	I would rather this whole thing drop and folks with those highly
superior newsreaders just use their filters. If the newsgroup
owners contact me to the contrary that is a different issue. And
then my above choice. 

	But I really do not like users presuming to dicate to other
users based upon their own choice of software and their own
arrogance. 

	Any questions?

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Nick Portelli wrote:

> I'd hate to offend anyone, but aren't you the people who get all annoyed
> when a thread gets way off topic?  Well this is off topic.  Take your
> signatures and fight elsewhere.

	I wish they would but I am not one to put up with rude and
arrogant. 

	Does this post bother you? Not the content, the format.

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Matt, I was pretty much ignoring this spat until I noticed that threat. I
agree that it is way out of line and you should protect yourself as best you
can. I can't believe someone would do something like that over one KB of
what, to them, is text.

Just goes to show you that road rage is not all on the road. We must now
drive defensively on the Information Highway. To carry a trite allusion even
further, many who drive '68 Datsuns resent those who drive SUV's and have to
do something to be able to look down on them. Info-terrorism is going a
little too far.

Until now I have not looked at your v-card, and I just now compiled "Warp"'s
sig... not a big deal either way. But as a libertarian I feel that both of
you should carefully do exactly what you want to do and then I will make
plans to do things on my end as a result of that. Unless you send code that
is invasive like a virus, folk should learn to deal.


Matt Giwer <mgi### [at] giwersworldorg> wrote in message
news:37B17912.2590D3CE@giwersworld.org...
> Xplo Eristotle wrote:
>
> > To judge from the way Matt gets away with saying "if you don't like my
> > lousy netiquette, filter me", the owners of this server don't seem to
> > care.
>
> "Filter" is the power of any user.
>
> And IF the owners tell me about it, fine. Then I can choose to
> change or not to participate. That will be MY choice.
>
> Your choice is to filter or not to filter. You read my posts on
> my terms, not yours.
>
> > I wonder if I could get Usenet posters to use this guy's email address
> > as spam bait. After all, if he doesn't want to receive all that spam, he
> > can just filter it.. no skin off his nose. :P
>
> Not that is an interesting threat and your email addr as
> instigtator is quite interesting. And your post is forwarded to
> your ISP.
>
> If I do not comply with the dicatations of mere users of this
> you folks are going to get me spammed.
>
> Let me tell you this, boy. IF that happens, you all will regret
> it. And I can do it in a heartbeat. And I will not do one direct
> thing.
>
> Are petty little Hilters going to try to enforce your will on
> everyone else or are you going to grow up and join the human
> race?
>
> You newcomers should never think you know what the internet is
> all about.

Post a reply to this message

On Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:01:51 -0400, Bill DeWitt wrote:
>Matt, I was pretty much ignoring this spat until I noticed that threat. I
>agree that it is way out of line and you should protect yourself as best you
>can. I can't believe someone would do something like that over one KB of
>what, to them, is text.

I can't see Matt's posts any longer, of course, but for once I agree with him.
Such a threat was way out of line.

Actually, I don't want to kill Matt's posts.  Maybe in a few days I'll sit
down with the source to slrn and figure out how to filter out vcards.  That
would be the productive solution, wouldn't it? :)

Post a reply to this message

Bill DeWitt wrote:

> Matt, I was pretty much ignoring this spat until I noticed that threat. I
> agree that it is way out of line and you should protect yourself as best you
> can. I can't believe someone would do something like that over one KB of
> what, to them, is text.

	I do not mean to prolong this but it looks like there is some
sense showing here. All that ie required for idiocy to prevail is
for the intelligent to remain silent. There are these petty
little stalins and maos that want their way or the gulags for
those who do not bow down. 

> Just goes to show you that road rage is not all on the road. We must now
> drive defensively on the Information Highway. To carry a trite allusion even
> further, many who drive '68 Datsuns resent those who drive SUV's and have to
> do something to be able to look down on them. Info-terrorism is going a
> little too far.

	I have a different opinion on the US 1st amendment and several
of the items in the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights. If
they insist on the personal right to violate them, they are
anti-american and anti-human rights. They should live in the
Gulags they sent tens of millions of others. 

> Until now I have not looked at your v-card, and I just now compiled "Warp"'s
> sig... not a big deal either way. But as a libertarian I feel that both of
> you should carefully do exactly what you want to do and then I will make
> plans to do things on my end as a result of that. Unless you send code that
> is invasive like a virus, folk should learn to deal.

	Aa a fellow registered Libertarian since it was possible in
Virginia I have not patience with these petty little dictators.
And IF I should suffer a spam attack, I will publish here exactly
how to innocently get their email addrs into the spammers email
lists. 

	It is so obvious if you think about it. 

Oh my God! They've rendered Kenny!

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Matt Giwer <mgi### [at] giwersworldorg> wrote:
: 	Are petty little Hilters going to try to enforce your will on
: everyone else or are you going to grow up and join the human
: race? 

  It is a general rule that people don't send binaries or mime attachments
to non-binaries group. Everyone agrees with this rule.
  Now you have this strange obsession about your useless vcard which you
send to every newsgroup, thus breaking the rule. Then you expect everyone
to just shut up and accept the exception in your case.
  Your attitude about defending your vcard is just plain childish. You just
tell people to shut up and to "upgrade" their "ancient" newsreaders (by
the way, this newsreader version was released 25 December 1998; quite
ancient...).
  So because you have this obsession about some useless mime attachment
which serves absolutely no purpose, you want everyone to change the
netiquette of posting to non-binaries groups and to "upgrade" to "newer"
newsreaders.
  The funny thing is that there exists no real reson for your obsession.
A regular signature works just fine and it's much more easy to read for
most of people. There's no reason for you to stop sending mime-formatted
articles and start posting just plain text. It's only an obsession.
  You talk about growing up. Perhaps you should look at the mirror.

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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Ron Parker wrote:

> On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:35:39 -0400, Matt Giwer wrote:
> >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> >--------------353C53C99B3BCF3BB8CA77D4
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> >Ron Parker wrote:

> >> Just because some idiot at Nutscrape doesn't understand USENET
> >> culture doesn't mean you have to meekly follow along.

> >       When .com domains were permitted, internet culture began a
> >permanent change that will never turn back.

> Learn some history, then come tell me about the Internet.  If you
> can find me.  It wasn't .com that changed the world, it was aol.com
> and netscape.com in particular.  And it wasn't for the better.

	Did your great-great grandfather hate Henry Ford for ruining his
buggywhip business? 

	As to learning history, only AOL 4 started using internet
protocol so that is was no mroe than an ISP gateway. Log on to
AOL and use Eudora and everything else just like a real ISP. 

	And with all the lawsuits and legally (and tax deductable
upgrades) it is the most reliable and available ISP in the US.
And you never have to use an AOL utility. Want to keep running it
down? 

	Your opinions are yours and like elbows. Everyone has at least
two of them. 

> >       I am hardly sympathetic to people who try to turn back the clock
> >by claiming a company with maybe 40% of the installed market
> >doesn't understand. And the other big chunck of the installed
> >market is Free Agent. Shall the world go backwards because
> >universities have not paid to move forward?

> Bzzzt.  trn is in the #2 spot, with almost as many users as Nutscrape.
> In most non-alt groups, the proportion is higher for trn.

	BS to trn. Only in the primitive university market without
graphics. 

	There are dozens of websites courtiously logging hits by
newreader. tin is in the noise. Look it up. I am not motivated to
deal with such nonsense. 

	Try it simply this way. Almost EVERY commerical ISP offers
something Win or Mac compatible. 

	By every industry measure 90% of the installed market in the US
is Win or Mac. Reported usage is 80% Win or Mac.

	tin trn and all the varients are in that 10-20% of the rest. 

	Don't kid yourself. REad the industry news. 

	Guess what? The current Linux convention expects to draw 20,000
up from 12,000 last year. Now I tell you, that is a real
installed base. 

	If you have been having your fun BSing the newcomers on this
newsgroup that is your business. 

	Do not expect me to put up with it. It is likely I have been in
this business since before you were born. And given the
demographics of the computer business ... please, arrogance is
part of being a programmer. What else am I exprssing? 

	I have no ego impressing someone else. My only ego is when
someone uses what I say and then tells me something I did not
know. That is my one indication of success. Nothing else.

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Matt Giwer wrote:

> Nieminen Mika wrote:
>
> > Ron Parker <par### [at] fwicom> wrote:
> > : As a counterexample I offer Warp's sig. >:)
>
> >   At least my sig can be posted without multipart mime-encoding...
>
>         Is that a good thing or an old fart stick in the mud position?
>
> >   And anyways, it's a good signature. It has my nick. Twice. ;)
>
>         And that is a good thing? To post something as a sig that only
> those familar with obscure legal but unprofession C code can read
> if they want to waste the time?
>
>         Please explain why and exercise in obscurity is a good thing.
>

Obscure sigs have long been a time-honored tradition in the Internet
community. (now that the video's out, I think I have to change mine).


--
"My new computer's got the clocks, it rocks
But it was obsolete before I opened the box" - W.A.Y.

Post a reply to this message

Matt Giwer <mgi### [at] giwersworldorg> wrote:
: 	And that is a good thing? To post something as a sig that only
: those familar with obscure legal but unprofession C code can read
: if they want to waste the time? 

: 	Please explain why and exercise in obscurity is a good thing. 

: 	Yes, you are very clever. Yes you are a horrible example of the
: art of programming. 

  First of all, you should read http://www.ioccc.org/. I quote:

>     Goals of the Contest
>
>     To write the most Obscure/Obfuscated C program under the rules below. 
>     To show the importance of programming style, in an ironic way. 
>     To stress C compilers with unusual code. 
>     To illustrate some of the subtleties of the C language. 
>     To provide a safe forum for poor C code. :-) 


  Signatures are not part of a contest, but you should get an idea about
what's the mentality behind obfuscated C (or any other programming language).
  Signatures usually contain information about the sender, but often they
also have some interesting things, like quotes, url's, jokes, etc.
  My signature is intended to be a kind of riddle (in the context of
obfuscated C). Often someone gets curious about what does it do and then
tries to compile and run it and gets surprised. Sometimes these people
write to me asking me how is it done. They feel the joy of discovering
something unexpected.
  The signature seldom offends or annoys anyone. It's just 2 lines long,
it's always located at the very end of the text and it doesn't add anything
else to the article. That is, it doesn't disturb the reading of the article.
Everyone can (or at least should) see that it's just a signature.

  And besides, why do you whine about the _contents_ of my signature? I
have never said anything about the contents of your signature. It's only
the way you send it which is annoying. There should be absolutely no reason
to blame anyone for the contents of his/her signature.
  However, if I use a gif as my signature and send it uuencoded or
mime-encoded, that's not good anymore.

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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Nieminen Mika wrote:

> Matt Giwer <mgi### [at] giwersworldorg> wrote:

> :       Are petty little Hilters going to try to enforce your will on
> : everyone else or are you going to grow up and join the human
> : race?

>   It is a general rule that people don't send binaries or mime attachments
> to non-binaries group. Everyone agrees with this rule.

	Since when is MIME encapsulation a binary? Can you direct me to
an rule of the owners of this newsgroup prohibiting it? IF not
why are you trying to recreate your own primitive non-graphic
environment? 

>   Now you have this strange obsession about your useless vcard which you
> send to every newsgroup, thus breaking the rule. Then you expect everyone
> to just shut up and accept the exception in your case.

	Where do the owners of this newsgroup have that rule stated?
Please state EXACTLY where that rule is stated. 

	I have no obsession with it. I have an interest that your rude,
crude and close to vulgar objection to it was expressed. I do not
take carp seriously. 

>   Your attitude about defending your vcard is just plain childish. You just
> tell people to shut up and to "upgrade" their "ancient" newsreaders (by
> the way, this newsreader version was released 25 December 1998; quite
> ancient...).

	Ancient and primative appear to have different meanings. It
appears the creators of your 1998 version srs still using stone
axes. 

>   So because you have this obsession about some useless mime attachment
> which serves absolutely no purpose, you want everyone to change the
> netiquette of posting to non-binaries groups and to "upgrade" to "newer"
> newsreaders.

	FILTER ME PLEASE!!!!! 

	I do not want to bother you in the least. So FILTER me. 

	You insist upon being offended and then complaining about it. 

	Filter me and go away. You are not worth a fingernail to me. 

>   The funny thing is that there exists no real reson for your obsession.
> A regular signature works just fine and it's much more easy to read for
> most of people. There's no reason for you to stop sending mime-formatted
> articles and start posting just plain text. It's only an obsession.

	Filter me and go away. 

>   You talk about growing up. Perhaps you should look at the mirror.

	Filter me and go away.

	But you will not as you imagined hitlerite control of this
newsgroup would be challenged if you could not respond to me. 

	What in the hell is your excuse for not filtering me instead of
being rude to me which started all this? 

	Give it your best shot.

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Matt Giwer <mgi### [at] giwersworldorg> wrote:
: 	Variety is something we cherish in the modern world. Only
: Communists and Nazis said everyone had to be the same. 

  That's exactly the reason why you should take into account those who
are using newsreaders which are not able to handle every kind of attachments.
Not everyone can or want to use the same newsreader as you do. If you don't
consider other people who are using other newsreader, you are very impolite.

: 	Use your filter to stop reading me instead of trying to play
: hitlerite dictator. FILTER! FILTER! FILTER! And go away. 

  And the reason for insulting me in this way: A vcard.
  How old are you?

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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"Jon A. Cruz" wrote:

> Obscure sigs have long been a time-honored tradition in the Internet
> community. (now that the video's out, I think I have to change mine).

	Excuse but the old idea of time honored disolved in a pile of
mush about five years ago. The time-honoring types fell to at
best a 10% share of the market as of now. 

	Fact of life. 

	Live with it. 

Oh my God! They've rendered Kenny!

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Nieminen Mika wrote:

>   Signatures are not part of a contest, but you should get an idea about
> what's the mentality behind obfuscated C (or any other programming language).
>   Signatures usually contain information about the sender, but often they
> also have some interesting things, like quotes, url's, jokes, etc.

>   My signature is intended to be a kind of riddle (in the context of
> obfuscated C). Often someone gets curious about what does it do and then
> tries to compile and run it and gets surprised. Sometimes these people
> write to me asking me how is it done. They feel the joy of discovering
> something unexpected.

	Good enough of a statement. 

	Now tell just how many of the internet users are going to make
the least sense of that statement. No problem, just tell me. 

	80% of the internet users today can't spell internet. 

	Now you are going to tell me about a sig? 

	Get a life. 

	What do Fundies and Hassidim and university internet types have
in common? The 18th century.

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