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In article <36B2A1A8.6580666E@networx.net.au> , Doug n' Dinsdale
<DnD### [at] networx netau> wrote:
> Twyst if your out there perhaps you could put Chris Youngs original post
> on the subject, with permision, on the Povray.org web site. Just a
> thought.
As it says: "(feel free to repost this)".
FROM: Chris Young, POV-Team Coordinator
DATE: December 30, 1998
TO: POV-Ray enthusiasts everywhere (feel free to repost this)
Dear POV-Ray enthusiasts,
The POV-Team has been hard a work achieving its primary
post-3.1 goal. That goal is NOTHING! <heheheh> That's right,
nothing, zip, zilch, nada, null. Soon after 3.1 release I started a
discussion about our plans for what's next. The #1 item on everyone's
list was VACATION!
So we've taken a couple of months off development to rest,
relax and enjoy the holidays (Thanksgiving through New Year's) to be
with family, friends, and to actually trace a few rays. Sometimes we
spend so much time working ON POV-Ray that we don't have time to play
WITH POV-Ray.
We did however take the time to roughly outline our other
goals and plans to achieve them. I'd like to share with you a few of
the things you can look forward to in 1999 and beyond.
BUGFIXES AND POV-Ray 3.1b,c,d,e....
First an apology on some mixed messages regarding bugfixes.
We in the POV-Team had even ourselves confused. Our Windows developer
/ newsgroup manger / webmaster / Chris Cason prefers his bug reports
via the newsgroups where we count on other enthusiasts to help weed
out the user mistakes from the real bugs. Myself (Chris Young)... I
prefer email because I don't have time to monitor newsgroups. I've
taken the stance that "it posted it in the newsgroup" wasn't
sufficient to insure it'll get fixed.
After some discussion, the newsgroups are a better route.
POV-Team members who have time to monitor the groups have assured me
that they'll see to it we get all the real bug reports forwarded to me
or some other appropriate team member. I'll still take emailed
reports at c_y### [at] compuservecom if you'd like (especially bug
fixes). Mac-specific bug reports are still welcome at
pov### [at] compuservecom but the newsgroup is your best bet if you
aren't 100% sure its a real bug.
That said... we've got several bug reports we're working on
right now. I know there has been some frustration that we've not
fixed them sooner and have not used your supplied fixes. We deeply
appreciate the fixes, keep 'em coming. But some of the fixes are only
partial fixes, some could have very serious side effects (such as
changing the EPISLON value), and some have major impact on
long-standing parts of the code (such as the averaged normal bug vs.
the double-illuminate workaround). Nearly ALL of the recent bugs have
existed since 3.0, most since 2.2 and one since before POV-Ray existed
(its a bug from the old DKB-Trace upon which POV-Ray is based.)
Given our need for vacation and the age of these bugs, we've not made
bug fixes a high priority but it is the next item on our agenda. Look
for POV-Ray 3.1b in a few weeks.
USER PATCHES AND VERSION NUMBERS
When we started on 3.1 it was supposed to be a "quick" release
before our planned total rewrite in C++ for 4.0. Unfortunately
version 3.1 took a year longer than expected. Meanwhile a number of
excellent user-created patches had appeared. When 3.1 was released
without these patches we were criticized for ignoring them. Many of
the patches were not available until after 3.1 was well under way.
Some of the patches we were not aware they existed. (Its that nasty
CY-doesn't-read-newsgroups problem again <heheh>) Hey the Team
Coordinator can't coordinate what he doesn't know existed can he?
Anyway, I think we've recognized and corrected this problem too.
I did know about a user-submitted #macro patch and although we
didn't use his code directly, it was a VERY BIG help in designing our
own. As you know, #macros made it into 3.1 along with much requested
arrays and file i/o which was pretty easy to include. Also halo
author Zsolt Szalavari told me about his idea for generalizing all
patterns such as bozo, gradient, wood etc. for use with halo. As one
of the major purposes of 3.1 was to turn halo into media, it was the
perfect chance to add this feature.
So version 3.1 was either based on user-created patches or
some strongly demanded user features. However we have to recognize
that the whole reason for having a 3.1 version was to correct problems
with a haphazard integration of a user-submitted patch into 3.0. We
had alrea`y implemented atmosphere when we first heard about halo.
Halo was so wonderful that we could not resist putting it in even
though we were nearly ready to release 3.0. While the original design
looked good, it was confusing. It was inconsistent with atmosphere. It
created big problems within the core code and it aggravated other
long-standing design problems. Our zeal to drop in a user patch late
in the game caused lots of problems and it took lots of work in 3.1 to
fix them.
So we recognize that there is a BIG backlog of user patches
with features we REALLY want. But do we really want to force them to
wait until a major 4.0 rewrite in a new language? After much debate
the answer is no.
Therefore the current plan is to create a POV-Ray 3.5 whose
primary purpose is make official, as many user-submitted patches as
possible. To borrow Ron Parker's term, this will be a "Super Patch"
version. Note however we will not simply be rubber-stamping Ron's
work in collecting patches as they currently exist. Ron's super-patch
is proving useful to the team in evaluating various patches (thanks
Ron) however some work must be done to integrate the new features in
way that won't conflict with future plans. Also some of the features
will be modified or eliminated. For example cross-platform
portability is a major design priority and the iso-surface patch makes
use of DLLs that are not portable. We will likely eliminate that part
of the patch.
At this point we can't say what will or will not make the
final cut. We'll be contacting authors of all the patches we know
about. We'll be asking their permission to use their patch but WE
CANNOT GUARENTEE that it will be used and you should expect that it
may be modified or rewritten in some way if it does make the cut. If
you have a POV-Ray 3.1 compatible patch and do not receive email from
me by February 1, 1999 then I don't know about your patch and you
should email me at c_y### [at] compuservecom to tell me about it.
We'll try to keep everyone informed of our progress as best we
can.
WHAT LANGUAGE TO USE? WHEN? HOW?
As I mentioned earlier, we originally planned that our next
release would be a major rewrite in C++ however we had lots of input
from users and team members that a compiled Java rewrite might be a
good alternative. In the 18 months since that debate, Java has not
fulfilled its promise to unite the world in the peaceful harmony of a
single, portable language. The whole industry (not just Microsoft) is
doing things to ruin Java. Enough politics... Java is out. We're
sticking with our original plan for C++.
The part we've not yet decided is when or how to convert.
Some want to start with a blank page. Others want to phase-in
object-oriented features. POV-Ray although written in plain C is
already quite object-oriented in that OBJECT and PATTERN are abstract
types that are "inherited" by more complex types that extend them.
Nearly everything has constructors and destructors already defined.
The current plan is to create a design specification from a
blank page to get the design right first. The team has voted almost
unanimously to wait and decide later whether to do the actual
implementation of that design in smaller, allegedly easier to manage
chunks or to just dive in and write a new implementation from scratch.
Either way, we've got design work to do first. We hope to be able to
do some of that work in parallel with our work on 3.5 but that may be
wishful thinking.
ADD-INS, API HOOKS, PARSERS, BINARY FORMATS ETC.
We've had many requests for the ability to make plug-ins or
DLL type capability. Although the vast majority of our users run
Windows, we will not be doing anything to hurt the cross-platform
portability of the program. Not all operating systems have DLL
capability and even if they did, you'd have to re-compile the DLL for
every platform. If you're going to do that, just patch the POV-Ray
source and re-compile it. We hope that eventually as our C++ design
encapsulates more of the program, it will be easier for
user-developers to extend or modify our objects without messing up
some other part of the program. This will be a big design goal for
the new object-oriented design: make it easier to add new features.
We also get frequent requests for more API (application
program interface) features in POV-Ray. The problem is that the more
access that external programs have to our internal workings, the
easier it is for commercial programs to blur the line between what
functions are POV-Ray and what functions are not. We've made solemn
promises to our developers over the years that we will protect their
donated contributions to our freeware from being commercially
exploited. Our tough language in POVLEGAL.DOC and our refusal to
expand POV-Ray's linkability is our best effort to keep that promise.
One of the most requested internal features that outside
developers want is our language parser. Although I don't know why
anyone would want to convert from POV (the World's Greatest Renderer)
to something inferior is a mystery to me. (<heheh> just kidding.)
Seriously we do appreciate that some way to import POV scenes is a
reasonable request but given our above-stated position on API or DLL
links and our ban on using our source code, its a difficult request to
satisfy.
One often-suggested solution is a POV binary format in which
would "compile" our scene files into some allegedly more readable (by
machines, not humans) format. However problems with floating-point
representation and byte ordering make such solutions difficult in a
cross-platform environment. It is also mistakenly assumed that
loading a binary format would somehow make parsing MUCH faster.
However much of the slow parsing on mega-size files is spent
allocating memory for 100s of thousands of objects and textures
individually. The really slow parses are slow because you're
thrashing away at a virtual memory swap file. I won't take the time
to re-argue the whole debate we had. I'll just say that we came very
close to deciding to go ahead and implement a binary format despite
the difficult technical problems and limited usefulness. As we began
to discuss the details however, we soon concluded that the benefits
were not worth the effort.
The POV-Ray language in most respects isn't really that hard
to parse in its current form. Two issues make it complicated.
POV-Ray 3.1 language isn't hard to parse but the 3.0, 2.0 and 1.0
languages are difficult to parse simultaneously. Also directives such
as #if, #while, #declare, #macro etc. can appear almost anywhere and
THAT is hard to deal with.
We decided on the following items which we will work on as
time and manpower permit:
1) I will be writing an official technical document that
describes the POV-Ray language from a parser-writer's point of view.
It will include a grammar specification using the syntax notation in
our reference docs. It should be helpful to anyone who wants to
implement their own parser.
2) We will eventually write a separate utility or an optional
feature in POV-Ray itself to translate (as much as possible) a version
1.0, 2.x or 3.0 scene into 3.1 scene and to possibly unroll loops,
resolve conditionals and expand macros. This will allow you to create
a much more easy-to-parse scene.
3) We will continue to look for ways to make parsing faster
and easier and will look for other methods to assist utility authors
needs in regards to the language.
SUMMARY
We've got a full agenda ahead of us. We'll continue to do the
best we can given our time and ability. I'm continually amazed that
we have done so much already and I'm even more amazed at the wonderful
art that you create with POV-Ray. It inspires us to keep working.
Happy New Year from the POV-Team.
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Fabien Mosen wrote:
>
> Just to spread some hype around here... ;)
>
> POV-Ray 3.1d (yes, "d" !) is availiable right now in Cserve's POVRAY
> forum...
>
> It's a big big big bug fix (as announced previously).
>
> Cheers,
> Fabien.
Just what we need ! A rumor monger !
Hmmm ! How am I gonna hack my way into Cserve ?
Gimmie, gimmie, gimmie, gimmie, gimmie, I wanna, I wanna,
pleeeeese daddy oh pretty Pleeese !
:)
--
Ken Tyler
tyl### [at] pacbellnet
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