----------------------------------------------------------------
Some features I would like to see
----------------------------------------------------------------

I use POV since v2 and I am always very happy to see it
progress. I am particulary pleased to see unified patterns
for everything. The new media feature is great. Macros and #local
are fantastic. But there is no end to evolution, so here is my
wish list, with carefully collected items. Some of them are nearly
cosmetic, others verge on the impossible.


Pure Pov Features (some hard, some easy):

* Syntax to access the existing POV engine root solvers (so I don't
  have to finish this root solving macro :) ). This would be
  great for interpolation and animations;

* Accept .ini options switch in .pov files (so that you can, e.g.,
  adapt different qualities or image formats with switch instructions),
  or pov declarations in .ini files ;

* Calculate images formats (+h and +w) automatically from up and right
  instruction, a Pixel_Ratio switch and either height, width or number
  of pixels ;

* Free a real spline object, declarable, reusable, and if 4d, usable
  for animation paths (by the way, aren't color_map & co some kind of
  spline ?);

* More animation support, e.g. .avi files output;

* Multispline surface generation;

* Add camera sensibility adjustement, with sensibility_map for
  non-linear reaction ; and eventually an auto-sensibilty setting.
  (see Photoshop's Levels command);

* Accentuated character support everywhere: declares, filenames,
  filepath;

* Why are irid_wavelength and number_of_waves global settings and not
  local ones ?

* Blobs: cones component and surface components (triangle would be
  favorite for a begining, with different strength for each vertex);
  also auto-joining option to remove joint swelling;

* Some additional functions (well, I macroed them anyway) :
  fractionnal part, sign, vector str, round to nearest integer and
  A^B notation in place of pow(A,B);

* A real though one (impossible would be a better description) :
  sound-tracing... urgh.



GUI Features:

* A rectangle selection tool to easily set start_row, start_collumn,...

* Searsh and replace in all project files (I mean all files in a
  directory);

* More shorcuts keys (ctrl-o, -shift-o, -w, -z, -shift-s ; ...);

* Please remove (or replace) this disgracefull wavy grayscale
  POV-Ray banner. (But the 3.1 toolbar buttons are much better,
  really good);

* Support for mouse wheel.


Documentation:

* Separate Tutorial(s) and Reference parts;

* The general index is usefull, but I think a
  partial index directing to important sections
  would be much better as a generic opening page.


I know this really is an awfull lot of work.
I want to thank you very much for POV-Ray,
which is really grreeat. Keep it going!


P.S. I had to use 3DSMAX2 - I prefer pov!

----------------------------------------------------------------
thank you  thank you  thank you  thank you  thank you  thank you
----------------------------------------------------------------

 THANK YOU FOR MAKING POV-RAY

 I USE IT ALL THE TIME


   Sincerely,

   Philippe



P.P.S. I am not a regular newsgroup user - if you reply to my
message, I am _very_ unlikely to see it. You can always email me at
phi### [at] hotmailcom

Post a reply to this message

In article <35cb2a04.0@news.povray.org> , "mdebar" <mic### [at] fundpacbe> wrote:

>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Some features I would like to see
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>I use POV since v2 and I am always very happy to see it
>progress. I am particulary pleased to see unified patterns
>for everything. The new media feature is great. Macros and #local
>are fantastic. But there is no end to evolution, so here is my
>wish list, with carefully collected items. Some of them are nearly
>cosmetic, others verge on the impossible.
>
>
>Pure Pov Features (some hard, some easy):
>
>* Accept .ini options switch in .pov files (so that you can, e.g.,
>  adapt different qualities or image formats with switch instructions),
>  or pov declarations in .ini files ;

Please note that not all platforms use ini files directly. The Mac version does not
need them (but supports them), we have a very nice dialog to set *all* options, no
need for stoneage ini files ;-)

>* More animation support, e.g. .avi files output;

This is a good idea - however, avi is oudated and not (very) platform independent. But
again look at the Mac version: QuickTime Movie output, any kind of compression you
might want, from simple indeo to motion-jpeg, to mpeg (if you have an encoder) to
sorensen video high compression anything is available with QuickTime, and you can view
it on MacOS as well as WinDOS 95,98 and NT. And QuickTime is the future base for the
MPEG 4 standard.

>* Accentuated character support everywhere: declares, filenames,
>  filepath;

Well, this would force unicode source files...wouldn't it?

>GUI Features:
WinDOS GUI features :-)

>* A rectangle selection tool to easily set start_row, start_collumn,...

Look at the Mac version, we have got it!

>* Searsh and replace in all project files (I mean all files in a
>  directory);

Still missing in the Mac version :-(

>* More shorcuts keys (ctrl-o, -shift-o, -w, -z, -shift-s ; ...);

Nearly all menu commands are accessible via shortcuts. Windows can be controled by
them as well (scrolling the image, etc).

>  POV-Ray banner. (But the 3.1 toolbar buttons are much better,
>  really good);

:-( The Mac version has no toolbar yet...

>* Support for mouse wheel.

Personally I think its the most stupid invention Microsoft ever made!!!!!

>I know this really is an awfull lot of work.
>I want to thank you very much for POV-Ray,
>which is really grreeat. Keep it going!

:-)

>P.S. I had to use 3DSMAX2 - I prefer pov!

I hate WinDOS, I will *always* prefer my Mac! :-)


Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich
e-mail: Tho### [at] csicom

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In article <35cb2a04.0@news.povray.org>, mic### [at] fundpacbe says...
>

>
>P.S. I had to use 3DSMAX2 - I prefer pov!
>

You're my friend !  The truth finally comes up !

Fabien.

Post a reply to this message

Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
> 
> In article <35cb2a04.0@news.povray.org> , "mdebar" <mic### [at] fundpacbe> wrote:


> >* Accept .ini options switch in .pov files

... or allow setting of POV parameters in the .ini file.
This would allow POV source to be prepared with options for 
drafts and final renders beyond the options offered by
the quality setting.
---------------------------
> >* More animation support, e.g. .avi files output;

I suspect with the new GUI extension support, it will be possible
for third parties to produce such a function without perturbing
the core POV code.

---------------------------

> > (GUI stuff omitted)

The GUI is quite nicely done.  However, as there already exist good
programming
editors (EMACS on UNIX, GWD Edit ($20) on Windows), and an amazing quantity
of good image viewers, I think "keep it simple" is a good approach to follow
with GUI's.


Dan

-- 
http://www.flash.net/~djconnel/

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Thorsten Froehlich wrote:

> >* Support for mouse wheel.
>
> Personally I think its the most stupid invention Microsoft ever made!!!!!

You don't have to like it, the fact that others like it should be enough to create a
need for such support.
Personally I use it all the time since I find it the most useful feature they ever
invented (the only problem is they don't support it consistently yet).


> >P.S. I had to use 3DSMAX2 - I prefer pov!
>
> I hate WinDOS, I will *always* prefer my Mac! :-)


Why should you hate it if you do not use it ?
Why simply because Microsoft, which is a big monopoly and highly disliked for that and
their bad manners (I agree with these statements), well why should we spit on it ?
There are also some good things with Microsoft and I use them happily. One of the good
things is - because of the monopoly situation - wide access to many users with support
for only one platform (I know it does not help breaking the monopoly, but as a first
development
stage windows is the best bet).

Cheers,
Al.

--
ANTI SPAM / ANTI ARROSAGE COMMERCIAL :
Pour me répondre, veuillez enlever le Z de mon adresse.
To answer me, please take out the Z from my address.

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["mdebar" <mic### [at] fundpacbe>]
|   for animation paths (by the way, aren't color_map & co some kind of
|   spline ?);

More like a polyline. They use linear interpolation.

-- 
A penny for your thoughts.
Mine are more expensive.

Post a reply to this message

Fabien Mosen wrote:
1> 
1> In article <35cb2a04.0@news.povray.org>, mic### [at] fundpacbe
1says...
1> >
1> 
1> >
1> >P.S. I had to use 3DSMAX2 - I prefer pov!
1> >
1> 
1> You're my friend !  The truth finally comes up !
1> 
>

Although we all love pov here, you can't deny that 3dsMAX2 is a much
more powerful program. Its rendering is getting better all the time and
it has tons of features...maybe pov is easy to use.. but it's still a
hobbyist tool. I use it, and i accept things as they are.


 Fabien.

-- 
	====================  Sulfugor ============================
  remove "spamkiller" from sul### [at] aeispamkillerca
  Web den: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/3930/index.htm
  grafx  :
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/3930/grafx.htm              
   
	"The stars that saw the birth of our ancestors shall watch
	our descendant's last steps on Earth ..  " 
                                      -AT THE GATES(RIP)

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In article <35CB959B.CF90ED4D@bigfoot.com> , Alain CULOS <ZAl### [at] bigfootcom> 
wrote:
>Why should you hate it if you do not use it ?

I have to use it (at work) and I don't like it! I have found more bug in it then in
the MacOS also I use the MacOS for much more demanding (and dangerous = debugging)
tasks and WinDOS with MS Office mostly, e.g. try the following: Connect an Access
datbase with a Word document, now open the Word document with the database still open.
Word will try to open the database again and again and you end up (if you don't stop
it) with as many Access applications (not able to read the database because another
Access opened it) as you memeory, harddisk and processor will take. Who creates such a
stupid system (yes, it is causing the problem!) that tried to open the file over and
over again but never has the idea to check if it is already open!


Thorsten


____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich
e-mail: Tho### [at] csicom

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Do you really think this is the place for religious discusion?


Doug Partridge
~
~

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I think the mouse's wheel is the most excellent invention Microsoft has made
(hey, at least it works, which is more than I can say for some of their
products!).  I use it with 3D Studio MAX R2 all the time.  It saves a huge
amount of time.  You can even program it within MAX to do functions called
"Strokes".  You can zoom, pan, activate a viewport, start a rendering,
change an object's properties, add a modifier, activate the home grid, align
an object, toggle the animation mode, align two normals, constrain a
transformation to an axis, cycle selections, delete an object, start a
MAXScript, toggle the dual planes and the list goes on and on and on and
on...  I'm not trying to be bossy or anything, all I'm saying is that some
people have a use for it while others don't, and that's fair.

By the way, MAX's raytracer is SLOOOOWWWW!!!!!!!!  POV-Ray's is still the
best raytracer I've seen, and it's worth $5500 less!  So I'm not trying to
put down POV-Ray either (just thought I'd make that clear!).

--
Lance Birch
http://come.to/the.zone
Remove the smiley to e-mail.

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After owning MAX for only a month, I must say that POV-Ray's raytracer is a
lot faster.  However, MAX is the most powerful program I have ever used, and
I can't deny that I would prefer it over POV-Ray when it comes to easy of
use and power.  I don't think that anyone should bag MAX, you really have to
use it for a while to see how good it really is (and the latest version, not
1.2!).  I must make it clear however that I am not putting POV-Ray or MAX
down in any way what-so-ever.  I still stick to my view that POV-Ray is the
best ray-tracer in the world!!!

--
Lance Birch
http://come.to/the.zone
Remove the smiley to e-mail.

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I find MAX easier to use actually... then again, I'm unfortuneately not up
to the standards of some of the REAL POV-Ray users, like Gilles Tran (his
"Book of Beginnings" is fantastic!).

--
Lance Birch
http://come.to/the.zone
Remove the smiley to e-mail.

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Lance Birch <:-)ala### [at] satcomnetau> wrote in message
<35d03ad8.0@news.povray.org>...
>After owning MAX for only a month, I must say that POV-Ray's raytracer is a
>lot faster.  However, MAX is the most powerful program I have ever used,
and
>I can't deny that I would prefer it over POV-Ray when it comes to easy of
>use and power.  I don't think that anyone should bag MAX, you really have
to
>use it for a while to see how good it really is (and the latest version,
not
>1.2!).  I must make it clear however that I am not putting POV-Ray or MAX
>down in any way what-so-ever.  I still stick to my view that POV-Ray is the
>best ray-tracer in the world!!!


I have some experience with 3dsMax, and while i also find it extremely easy
to use, I keep coming up against limitations, and stuff that is EASIER to do
in Pov-Ray... For example.. 5000 random spheres, or blobs,etc,etc... Plus
it's a pain to have to calculate reflection maps, etc, etc. What I like to
do, is model in 3dsMax, and render in Pov-Ray. This makes HUGE files, but
for certain things, it's worth it. =) In my opinion, Max is the best
modeller(for what it costs, it had BETTER be) , and  Pov-Ray is the best
renderer.

Twyst -------------------------------------------
twysted mynd - for pov-ray news, reviews and tutorials
http://twysted.net
e-mail: twy### [at] twystednet
---------------------------------------------------

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Lance Birch wrote:
> 
> By the way, MAX's raytracer is SLOOOOWWWW!!!!!!!!  POV-Ray's is still the
> best raytracer I've seen, and it's worth $5500 less!

No, Lance -- it just *costs* $5500 less. :-)

-- 
Ross Smith ..................................... Wellington, New Zealand
<mailto:r-s### [at] ihugconz> ........ <http://crash.ihug.co.nz/~r-smith/>
   "Remember when we told you there was no future? Well, this is it."
                                                         -- Blank Reg

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I agree with you Twyst.  Some things are easier in POV-Ray.  However, have
you used MAX's MAXScript?  It is a programming language for MAX that can do
all of the things you mentioned.  I find it extremely useful.  It has full
support for GUI and file operations too.  Blobs?  Well you need a plugin,
but it can do them...  But of course, the reflection maps are a pain
(Grrrrrrr...).  Thanks for listening to me, I know a lot of people really
don't like MAX  :-)

Hmm, exporting to POV-Ray, I've never really thought of doing that...  Maybe
I'll write a script to convert the primitives instead of just triangles one
day (one day very far away.....  Although it wouldn't be too hard to gain
the object info, maybe I'll try it :-).

Thanks.

--
Lance Birch
www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/parallax/359
Remove the smiley to e-mail.

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Sorry, that's what I meant (Please forgive me!  I didn't mean it that
way!!!!!!!!  Maybe I should concentrate on what I type next time...)

--
Lance Birch
http://come.to/the.zone
Remove the smiley to e-mail.

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>GUI Features:
>
>* A rectangle selection tool to easily set start_row, start_collumn,...

If someone contributes some WinAPI C code that does rubberbanding in
a window this will be added. Otherwise it won't ('cause we don't feel
like reinventing the wheel).

>* Searsh and replace in all project files (I mean all files in a
>  directory);

Not going to happen in the forseeable future.

>* More shorcuts keys (ctrl-o, -shift-o, -w, -z, -shift-s ; ...);

Yes. The new editor has customisable key allocations.

>* Please remove (or replace) this disgracefull wavy grayscale

Which wavy grayscale POV banner ? I can't think of any wavy grayscale
banner in the program.

>* Support for mouse wheel.

Yes. The new editor directly supports the Intellimouse.

Post a reply to this message

mdebar <mic### [at] fundpacbe> wrote in article
<35cb2a04.0@news.povray.org>...

<SNIP>

> * A real though one (impossible would be a better description) :
>   sound-tracing... urgh.
 
Take a look at Csound it "renders" sound and music the way POV does with
images.
input is two ASCII files and the output is  soundfile (WAV)
 
 
> GUI Features:
<snip>

> * More shorcuts keys (ctrl-o, -shift-o, -w, -z, -shift-s ; ...);
 
Being able to 'walk' thru all open files with a short cut (ctrl-tab) would
be nice

this way you can edit in one file and start the render in the other file
with out having to rach for the mouse (takes to long).

Thomas

tho### [at] poboxruunl

Post a reply to this message

Thomas van der Veen wrote:

> Being able to 'walk' thru all open files with a short cut (ctrl-tab) would
> be nice
>
> this way you can edit in one file and start the render in the other file
> with out having to rach for the mouse (takes to long).
>
> Thomas
>
> tho### [at] poboxruunl

  Use the alt arrow left or alt arrow right.
It's already an option I use all the time.
K.Tyler

Post a reply to this message

"Thomas van der Veen" <tho### [at] poboxruunl> wrote:

>Being able to 'walk' thru all open files with a short cut (ctrl-tab) would
>be nice. this way you can edit in one file and start the render in the other file
> with out having to rach for the mouse (takes to long).

The Real Friendly Manual has this documented. It's been there for at least two
years. The keys you want are alt-rightarrow or alt-leftarrow. F6/Shift F6 do
the same thing.

Post a reply to this message

<snip>
 >Being able to 'walk' thru all open files with a short cut (ctrl-tab)
would
> >be nice. this way you can edit in one file and start the render in the
other file
> > with out having to rach for the mouse (takes to long).
> 
> The Real Friendly Manual has this documented. It's been there for at
least two
> years. The keys you want are alt-rightarrow or alt-leftarrow. F6/Shift F6
do
> the same thing.

Thanks, I thought ctrl-tab was standard windows.

Post a reply to this message

**Wow**

When I posted this message, I did not believe it would generate so
much feedback...

Two small explanations :

* POV vs. 3DMAX : What I said is that I PREFER POV - I did not
  say POV is better :-)... but I believe that as a renderer, it is. 3DMAX
  is better as a GUI and for animations - but there are outstanding
  sharewares and freewares out there. The only two features I really miss
  in POV are :
  * (this would be difficult to implement and to use in POV's current
    state) the exclude / include option for light sources, with lighting /
shadow
    flags.
  * instant camera preview for animations - but this is not POV's domain.

  What I really like in POV is an almost total control (I really do hate
MAX's
  point snap... that do not snap exactly), and easily parametrisable
behavior,
  the more so with 3.1 !


* To povray.org admin team: the 'wavy pov banner' I refered to is the
grayscale
  background image on the toolbar in povwin. I was only stating my
aesthetical
  opinion - nothing really essential.


That's all... for now: I may come back with the sequel of my wish list (Dear
Santa... ). The first item would probably be "why isn't there a official www
wish list / bug fixes, with votes ?".


Many, many thanks to all the people who make POV-Ray, and who support
it. Thank you, thank you, you have made the earth a better place.


   Sincerely,

   Philippe



P.S. I am not a regular newsgroup user  yet - if you reply to my
message, I am unlikely to see it. You can always email me at
phi### [at] hotmailcom

Post a reply to this message

Well, write in and you never know, you could start something massive!  Just
look what happened with the MovieProject!

I agree with you about MAX and POV-Ray, they both have advantages and
disadvantages.  I thought they fixed that problem with 3D/2.5D/2D
snapping...  I agree about the rendering too.  I only wish that POV-Ray had
an environment system as fast as MAX, but then again, I wish the raytracemap
in MAX was as fast as POV-Ray!!!  I know!  LET'S COMBINE THEM TO MAKE THE
ULTIMATE 3D RENDERING SYSTEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Just kidding.

--
Lance Birch
http://come.to/the.zone
Remove the smiley to e-mail.

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>Thanks, I thought ctrl-tab was standard windows. 

POVWIN is not an MDI application.

Post a reply to this message

"Thomas van der Veen" <tho### [at] poboxruunl> wrote:

>Thanks, I thought ctrl-tab was standard windows. 

It's not a standard. For example, Excel 97 does it, Word 97 doesn't. CodeWright
does it, Multi-Edit doesn't. And so forth.

In any case even if it was a standard for MDI applications, that doesn't apply
to POVWIN since it's not an MDI program.

Finally, that's still not an excuse for not reading the manual. We took the
trouble to write it so that people such as yourself wouldn't need to ask in
newsgroups or via email how to do things that it clearly documents. It's there
for a reason. Please use it.

Post a reply to this message

povray.org admin team <new### [at] DESPAMpovrayorg> wrote in article
<35d19bcc.69573461@news.povray.org>...
> >GUI Features:
> >
> >* A rectangle selection tool to easily set start_row, start_collumn,...
> 
> If someone contributes some WinAPI C code that does rubberbanding in
> a window this will be added. Otherwise it won't ('cause we don't feel
> like reinventing the wheel).
> 

	Erm, you want something along the lines of :

When you get a WM_LBUTTONDOWN, do :

	SetCapture(hwnd);
	g_bDragging=TRUE; // g_bDragging is a globally defined boolean.
	g_nEndXPos=g_nStartXPos=LOWORD(lParam);
	g_nEndYPos=g_nStartYPos=LOWORD(lParam);

then during WM_MOUSEMOVE messages, do :

	if(TRUE==g_bDragging)
	{
		hdc=GetDC(hwnd);
		rop2=GetROP2(hdc);
		SetRop2(hdc,R2_XORPEN);
		Rectangle(hdc,g_nStartXPos,g_nStartYPos,g_nEndXPos,g_nEndYPos);
		g_nEndXPos=LOWORD(lParam);
		g_nEndYPos=LOWORD(lParam);
		Rectangle(hdc,g_nStartXPos,g_nStartYPos,g_nEndXPos,g_nEndYPos);
		SetRop2(hdc,rop2);
		ReleaseDC(hwnd,hdc);
	}

and, finally, on receiving a WM_LBUTTONUP, do :

	if(TRUE==g_bDragging)
	{
		hdc=GetDC(hwnd);
		rop2=GetROP2(hdc);
		SetRop2(hdc,R2_XORPEN);
		Rectangle(hdc,g_nStartXPos,g_nStartYPos,g_nEndXPos,g_nEndYPos);
		SetRop2(hdc,rop2);
		ReleaseDC(hwnd,hdc);

		ReleaseCapture(hwnd);
		g_bDragging=FALSE;
	}

The coordinates of the selected rectangle will be stored in g_nStartXPos,
g_nStartYPos, g_nEndXPos and g_nEndYPos.

HTH,
-- 
Scott Hill
Sco### [at] DDLinkscouk
Software Engineer (and all round nice guy)
Company homepage : http://www.ddlinks.demon.co.uk

"The best trick the devil ever pulled was convincing people he didn't
exist..."
								- Verbal Kint.

"the Internet is here so we can waste time talking about nothing in 
 particular when we should be working" - Marcus Hill.

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