Is there a Java version of Povray? Is one being planned by anyone?

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It would be somewhat slower than the native versions I am guessing....
should they ever decide to do so!

Bryan

Keiron Liddle <kli### [at] webtimecomau> wrote in message
35FB9659.41D1BCD4@webtime.com.au...
>Is there a Java version of Povray? Is one being planned by anyone?
>

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Keiron Liddle <kli### [at] webtimecomau> wrote:
: Is there a Java version of Povray? Is one being planned by anyone?

  What do you need a java version for?

-- 
                                                           - Warp. -

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NOOOO!!!!! Can't you see what's going to happen if you ask questions like
that openly????

The last time someone brought up the subject of a Java version of POV-Ray
there was a massive explosion of blood, stabbing, shooting and all round
general violence (OK, maybe it wasn't THAT bad).  ;-)

In answer to your questions though:

No there is no Java version of POV-Ray currently; and
Someone may be planning one, but if they are, they haven't told anyone.

--
Lance.


---
For the latest MAX plug-ins, images and much more, go to:
The Zone - http://come.to/the.zone

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Hey, that's weird, you must be on at the same time as I am (I got your reply
about 9 mins after I posted my message).  That usually doesn't happen since
I'm in Aust.

> It's like asking "Why not just use openGL instead of this raytracing crap
?
> Wouldn't it be faster ?".

Now now, let's not get sarcastic ;-)
[ EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;-) ]

--
Lance.


---
For the latest MAX plug-ins, images and much more, go to:
The Zone - http://come.to/the.zone

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Ken wrote:

> It's like asking "Why not just use openGL instead of this raytracing crap ?
> Wouldn't it be faster ?".
>
> Ken
>
> Lance Birch wrote:
>
> > NOOOO!!!!! Can't you see what's going to happen if you ask questions like
> > that openly????
> >
> > The last time someone brought up the subject of a Java version of POV-Ray
> > there was a massive explosion of blood, stabbing, shooting and all round
> > general violence (OK, maybe it wasn't THAT bad).  ;-)
> >
> > In answer to your questions though:
> >
> > No there is no Java version of POV-Ray currently; and
> > Someone may be planning one, but if they are, they haven't told anyone.
> >
> > --
> > Lance.
> >
> > ---
> > For the latest MAX plug-ins, images and much more, go to:
> > The Zone - http://come.to/the.zone

  This is for KEN. I love ray tracing, but I use to make animations, so an
OpenGL POVRay would be good for previewing.

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Miguel Alvarez Rodriguez wrote:

> Ken wrote:
>
> > It's like asking "Why not just use openGL instead of this raytracing crap ?
> > Wouldn't it be faster ?".
> >
> > Ken
>   This is for KEN. I love ray tracing, but I use to make animations, so an
> OpenGL POVRay would be good for previewing.

I made the above comment in good humor ;^ }

Actualy there is a Pov user around here somewhere named
Johannes that has made an OpenGL Pov-Ray animation viewer.
The catch is you need one of the patched versions of pov to get
it to work.

Ken Tyler

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Ken wrote:

> Miguel Alvarez Rodriguez wrote:
>
> > Ken wrote:
> >
> > > It's like asking "Why not just use openGL instead of this raytracing crap ?
> > > Wouldn't it be faster ?".
> > >
> > > Ken
> >   This is for KEN. I love ray tracing, but I use to make animations, so an
> > OpenGL POVRay would be good for previewing.
>
> I made the above comment in good humor ;^ }
>
> Actualy there is a Pov user around here somewhere named
> Johannes that has made an OpenGL Pov-Ray animation viewer.
> The catch is you need one of the patched versions of pov to get
> it to work.
>
> Ken Tyler

  Thank you very much Ken, I'm new in this newsgroup and I didn't know anything
about that.

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Miguel Alvarez Rodriguez wrote in message
<362B4654.34D8F63B@abonados.cplus.es>...
>Ken wrote:
>>
>> Actualy there is a Pov user around here somewhere named
>> Johannes that has made an OpenGL Pov-Ray animation viewer.
>> The catch is you need one of the patched versions of pov to get
>> it to work.
>>


"A Pov user around here somewhere named Johannes..." :-) Nice way to put it
:-))

Anyway: I am under a HEAVY workload right now, so I didn't have time to work
on that tool for some time, so its current status is very much Alpha.
However, it seems to work with the most common objects (sphere, box etc.).
Anybody interested just e-mail me and I'll send you a copy (with C++
sources, if you want). Oh yes: Sorry, Windows only!

Bye,
Johannes.

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Johannes Hubert wrote:

> "A Pov user around here somewhere named Johannes..." :-) Nice way to put it
> :-))
>
> Anyway: I am under a HEAVY workload right now, so I didn't have time to work
> on that tool for some time, so its current status is very much Alpha.
> However, it seems to work with the most common objects (sphere, box etc.).
> Anybody interested just e-mail me and I'll send you a copy (with C++
> sources, if you want). Oh yes: Sorry, Windows only!
>
> Bye,
> Johannes.

  I left your ID intentionaly vague knowing that your animation
previewer wasn't on your support list. I figured that if you saw
the message, and wanted to comment, it was up to you.
Better that than having the Pov-Ray community beating a path
to your door for something you may not even want to give away.

Ken Tyler

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Keiron Liddle wrote:

> Is there a Java version of Povray? Is one being planned by anyone?

Well I have the same question.  I am interested in Java Distributed
computing.  I think that ray tracing might be a good candidate for this
type of computing.  I have approximately 10 healthy PC's at the office
with a 100BaseT interconnect.  What would be the best platform/version
to perform the port from?  I've looked at the MSDOS code an have seen
that it is very well documented and very object oriented already.  Being
as I have a limited number of hours to contribute to porting the code to
a distributed java environment, how do I contact people of a like mind
to work toward similar goals?

Mike

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Re distributed computing of POV:

For massive render projects, why not just use the existing "start row" /
"end row" ability to have
each machine, running existing POV binaries of the proper flavor, render an
assigned stripe?
I'd just as soon put such effort into a Win32 native tool to automate this.
For example, Volenteers run a "server" application, and the rendermaster
then assigns stripes to all servers, and gives them more work when complete.
In exchage the doners get access to a private web site to see the latest
creations first.  The render doner applet would run as a tray icon, and
users could use that to "freeze" if low priority wasn't enough and he really
wanted the background activity to stop; "quit" in case he changed his mind
or ran into problems, and "view" so he could find out what was going on.

--John

Mike Crowe wrote in message <36D### [at] goldinccom>...
>
>
>Keiron Liddle wrote:
>
>> Is there a Java version of Povray? Is one being planned by anyone?
>
>Well I have the same question.  I am interested in Java Distributed
>computing.  I think that ray tracing might be a good candidate for this
>type of computing.  I have approximately 10 healthy PC's at the office
>with a 100BaseT interconnect.  What would be the best platform/version
>to perform the port from?  I've looked at the MSDOS code an have seen
>that it is very well documented and very object oriented already.  Being
>as I have a limited number of hours to contribute to porting the code to
>a distributed java environment, how do I contact people of a like mind
>to work toward similar goals?
>
>Mike
>
>

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Well, that sounds very much like the R-Cast system I am working on, aside from
the Win32 part.
Why Win32? Java seems much more appropriate for this. The amount of time spent
in communication vs. time calculating the communication vs. time rendering, etc.

R-Cast is at:
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Network/4453/rfarm/

I agree, though, that the raytracer in Java is not the best application for
either at the moment.

"John M. Dlugosz" wrote:

> Re distributed computing of POV:
>
> For massive render projects, why not just use the existing "start row" /
> "end row" ability to have
> each machine, running existing POV binaries of the proper flavor, render an
> assigned stripe?
> I'd just as soon put such effort into a Win32 native tool to automate this.
> For example, Volenteers run a "server" application, and the rendermaster
> then assigns stripes to all servers, and gives them more work when complete.
> In exchage the doners get access to a private web site to see the latest
> creations first.  The render doner applet would run as a tray icon, and
> users could use that to "freeze" if low priority wasn't enough and he really
> wanted the background activity to stop; "quit" in case he changed his mind
> or ran into problems, and "view" so he could find out what was going on.
>
> --John
>
> Mike Crowe wrote in message <36D### [at] goldinccom>...
> >
> >
> >Keiron Liddle wrote:
> >
> >> Is there a Java version of Povray? Is one being planned by anyone?
> >
> >Well I have the same question.  I am interested in Java Distributed
> >computing.  I think that ray tracing might be a good candidate for this
> >type of computing.  I have approximately 10 healthy PC's at the office
> >with a 100BaseT interconnect.  What would be the best platform/version
> >to perform the port from?  I've looked at the MSDOS code an have seen
> >that it is very well documented and very object oriented already.  Being
> >as I have a limited number of hours to contribute to porting the code to
> >a distributed java environment, how do I contact people of a like mind
> >to work toward similar goals?
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >

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Mike Crowe <cro### [at] goldinccom> wrote:
: Well I have the same question.  I am interested in Java Distributed
: computing.  I think that ray tracing might be a good candidate for this
: type of computing.  I have approximately 10 healthy PC's at the office
: with a 100BaseT interconnect.

  And you get the image calculated with those 10 computers in the same time
as with the C povray in one computer...

-- 
main(i){char*_="BdsyFBThhHFBThhHFRz]NFTITQF|DJIFHQhhF";while(i=
*_++)for(;i>1;printf("%s",i-70?i&1?"[]":" ":(i=0,"\n")),i/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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Original (1.0) java was slow.  With 1.1 and above performance is
substantially better improved.  I have looked at benchmarks for both
native "C" and java in doing matrix manipulation (matrix multiplication,
rotations and transformations) any haven't seen any substantial
difference between the two (about half the time the Java code won out,
but always, the two were close).  I believe the term that is used is
"run time compiled byte code"?    What specific ray trace mathmatical
operations would be needed to give rough equivalency for a native .vs.
Java raytracer?  Matrix rotations?  Intersection testing?  Is there a
single small package in POY-RAY that could be ported to Java so that a
estimate of the performance could be made?

My desire in coding up POV ray was not so much a desire to see real
world processing time improvements, but to educate myself on
implementing a substantial practical algorithm on a distributed basis. 
The selection of Java, as was pointed out, for ease in implementing the
distributed architecture.  

So with the sage advice I have received from my esteemed collages.  I
dare to ask yet further questions about group think coding projects. 
What does the structure of the POV-RAY software development team look
like?  Is there one guy effectively doing all the work?  How are things
like archiving, bug reporting, patching, ... put together?

Secondly, is there a better build for one platform or another that would
be better as a starting place for a Java port?

Thirdly,
Jon, R-cast looks interesting, is the template document on the web serve
as the reference document for the development team?  Is that how a port
or project of these magnitudes gets started?

Thanks
Mike

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crowe <cro### [at] goldinccom> wrote:
: Original (1.0) java was slow.  With 1.1 and above performance is
: substantially better improved.  I have looked at benchmarks for both
: native "C" and java in doing matrix manipulation (matrix multiplication,
: rotations and transformations) any haven't seen any substantial
: difference between the two (about half the time the Java code won out,
: but always, the two were close).  I believe the term that is used is
: "run time compiled byte code"?

  So what's the difference between compiled Java and compiled C++ except
that C++ is supported by almost any platfrom while Java isn't?

-- 
main(i){char*_="BdsyFBThhHFBThhHFRz]NFTITQF|DJIFHQhhF";while(i=
*_++)for(;i>1;printf("%s",i-70?i&1?"[]":" ":(i=0,"\n")),i/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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[On 25 Feb 1999 07:00:41 -0500, Nieminen Mika <war### [at] cctutfi>]
|   So what's the difference between compiled Java and compiled C++ except
| that C++ is supported by almost any platfrom while Java isn't?

C++ code is _barely_ compiler independent. Crowe is talking about
just-in-time compiling (JIT) which is still platform independent 
since it is done in run time.

-- 
A penny for your thoughts.
Mine are more expensive.

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Bjørn Vaggen Konestabo wrote:

> [On 25 Feb 1999 07:00:41 -0500, Nieminen Mika <war### [at] cctutfi>]
> |   So what's the difference between compiled Java and compiled C++ except
> | that C++ is supported by almost any platfrom while Java isn't?
>
> C++ code is _barely_ compiler independent. Crowe is talking about
> just-in-time compiling (JIT) which is still platform independent
> since it is done in run time.
>
> --
> A penny for your thoughts.
> Mine are more expensive.

  Thanks for the term, JIT.  I couldn't remember it last night at the house.

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Nieminen Mika wrote:
> 
> crowe <cro### [at] goldinccom> wrote:
> : Original (1.0) java was slow.  With 1.1 and above performance is
> : substantially better improved.  I have looked at benchmarks for both
> : native "C" and java in doing matrix manipulation (matrix multiplication,
> : rotations and transformations) any haven't seen any substantial
> : difference between the two (about half the time the Java code won out,
> : but always, the two were close).  I believe the term that is used is
> : "run time compiled byte code"?
> 
>   So what's the difference between compiled Java and compiled C++ except
> that C++ is supported by almost any platfrom while Java isn't?
> 
> --
> main(i){char*_="BdsyFBThhHFBThhHFRz]NFTITQF|DJIFHQhhF";while(i=
> *_++)for(;i>1;printf("%s",i-70?i&1?"[]":" ":(i=0,"\n")),i/=2);} /*- Warp -*/


Well, the main difference is not the code you write on your own, but the
code you use written by others. The best part of java is a well
specified class library, including parallism, networking, serialisation
etc...

X-platform is very easy concerning calculations with 4byte floats, it
gets tricky with other floats, endianess, different thread models etc.
Those are the parts boosting java.

Axel

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