On 11/17/2016 6:28 AM, Sherry K. Shaw wrote:
> Hah!  My two kinds of life experience in re computers:
>
> (1)  If it's a simple operation, and I'm trying to demonstrate it to a
> n00b, It Will Not Under Any Circumstances Work.  The internet will go
> down.  The thingy will overheat.  The doodad will explode.  The dog will
> eat their homework.  Something.
>

My best excuse was my hamster ate my homework and it was true. :)


> (2)  If some reasonably intelligent person is trying to explain to me
> the silly thing their computer is doing, once I walk into the room, it
> will immediately stop doing it.  It will be fine.  I just tell them that
> I have the magical power to heal computers.
>

A can of WD40 or compressed air is invaluable for the Ju Ju. ;)



-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On 11/17/2016 4:50 PM, nemesis wrote:
> sure bet, sometimes I lurk in just to watch Stephen and Jim amusing interchanges
> :)

You are welcome to join in anytime and Jim will sell you a copy of the 
rules. ;-)


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On 11/15/2016 2:32 PM, LanuHum wrote:
>> Stephen wrote:
>> >
>>> >>
>>> >>Well, I am going to spend some more time in Blender. To see what I can
>>> >>break.;-)
> You could ask me and Mr...
>
>
>
>
You might regret that kind offer. :)


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Am 17.11.2016 um 22:06 schrieb Stephen:

>> (2)  If some reasonably intelligent person is trying to explain to me
>> the silly thing their computer is doing, once I walk into the room, it
>> will immediately stop doing it.  It will be fine.  I just tell them that
>> I have the magical power to heal computers.
>>
> 
> A can of WD40 or compressed air is invaluable for the Ju Ju. ;)

If you're working on embedded systems, then compressed air can indeed
take you a long way in debugging ;)

I once spent hours beside a climate chamber to hunt for a bug that the
hardware guys couldn't figure out.

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clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> Am 17.11.2016 um 22:06 schrieb Stephen:
> 
>>> (2)  If some reasonably intelligent person is trying to explain to me
>>> the silly thing their computer is doing, once I walk into the room, it
>>> will immediately stop doing it.  It will be fine.  I just tell them that
>>> I have the magical power to heal computers.
>>> 
>> 
>> A can of WD40 or compressed air is invaluable for the Ju Ju. ;)
> 
> If you're working on embedded systems, then compressed air can indeed
> take you a long way in debugging ;)
> 
> I once spent hours beside a climate chamber to hunt for a bug that the
> hardware guys couldn't figure out.
> 
> 

I still shudder when recalling some work I did in the hardware abstraction
layer. Firmware and drive work isn't quite as fun as building higher level
stuff, for me at least, mostly because of debugging. 

You could sentence criminals to X years of HAL work and I think it might be
a very effective crime deterrent!

Ian

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Am 17.11.2016 um 23:58 schrieb [GDS|Entropy]:

> I still shudder when recalling some work I did in the hardware abstraction
> layer. Firmware and drive work isn't quite as fun as building higher level
> stuff, for me at least, mostly because of debugging. 

Yeah, I guess HAL development sucks. But once you dig down deep enough
that the scope becomes your best friend in debugging, things start to
get fun again ;)

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On 11/14/2016 5:31 PM, Stephen Klebs wrote:
>>
>> For such an effort to be noticed is hard because other programs do that all the
>> time, changing website theme (not by much) or even changing software name though
>> as a user, I wouldn't be against any of these... even switching back to an older
>> name and theme would be cool for the renderer's image, people forgot them
>> they're as brand new... Renaming pov DKB trace /PVRay/Persistence or anything
>> would look like it's really back for instance, any change is better than
>> asleep...  Anyway these are easy quick changes to decide after discussions
>>
>> The hardest part of the job is really being done by pov developers currently I
>> don't think more than what is being done is necessary, but it does take time!
>> almost done, the good thing is that changes are more apparent now that they
>> happen in the main trunk because developers of experimental versions like
>> Uberpov pay attention to synchronise with trunk regularly and port back their
>> stable changes as opposed to the pov vs megapov gap of older days.
>>
>> I agree with previous statements on one other thing that could currently be done
>> more, as said before:For end users to post more work in progress and finished
>> images outside of here!
>>
>> Blenderartists.org does have an "other software" section, CG society,
>> Behance... whatever works.
>
> It's a problem too that from the occasional coding I do the last thing I look
> forward to is playing around with interface buttons and sliders and trying to
> catch all the possible traps the end-user might fall in. UI is really a whole
> different skill.
>
>
>
>

A WYSIWYG point and click GUI would be a PITA to write. I think that 
would be expecting too much out of our devs.

Better interoperability with other tools and formats may be more 
realistic (though also kind of unlikely).

For instance I use a program called GeoGebra to sketch out a lot of 
things before I start doing them in POV-Ray. A way to export to POV-Ray 
would come in real handy.

Also, I think Inkscape can export to POV-Ray, but I have never used the 
feature.

Unfortunately, I am not a *real* programmer or math wiz, so I cannot help.

Mike

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in news:web.5829956d5604f2316086ed00@news.povray.org Mr wrote:


> By the way, about several renderers for one POV SDL, it's already
> available as well with UberPOV, trying its stochastic AA should be
> compulsory for all povers to see real life render times, promising to
> bring POV back in the race without as much noise as Cycles! can't
> wait for the Spectral revolution as well !

I was more thinking along the lines of OGL or WebGl, may be not even 
directly. Maybe "compiling" SDL to WebGL. Looking at for example 
http://doc.babylonjs.com/generals/File_Format_Map_(.babylon)#example it 
does not look impossible, although several features don't match, and 
you'ld be tied to another framework.
Iirc there is a way from Blender to the web too?

Ingo

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On 11/17/2016 01:06 PM, Stephen wrote:
> On 11/17/2016 6:28 AM, Sherry K. Shaw wrote:
>> Hah!  My two kinds of life experience in re computers:
>>
>> (1)  If it's a simple operation, and I'm trying to demonstrate it to a
>> n00b, It Will Not Under Any Circumstances Work.  The internet will go
>> down.  The thingy will overheat.  The doodad will explode.  The dog will
>> eat their homework.  Something.
>>
>
> My best excuse was my hamster ate my homework and it was true. :)
>
>
>> (2)  If some reasonably intelligent person is trying to explain to me
>> the silly thing their computer is doing, once I walk into the room, it
>> will immediately stop doing it.  It will be fine.  I just tell them that
>> I have the magical power to heal computers.
>>
>
> A can of WD40 or compressed air is invaluable for the Ju Ju. ;)
>

Reminds me of the advice I read somewhere...

If it moves and it shouldn't, use duct tape.
if it doesn't move and it should, use WD-40.

-- 
      -=- Larry -=-

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On 16-11-2016 20:29, nemesis wrote:

> just look how far in the past it became:  we are still using usenet to talk
> about it.  how about some whatsapp? :p
>

I would truly be lost.

Long time no see! Good to have you back!

-- 
Thomas

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ingo <ing### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> in news:web.5829956d5604f2316086ed00@news.povray.org Mr wrote:
>
>
> > By the way, about several renderers for one POV SDL, it's already
> > available as well with UberPOV, trying its stochastic AA should be
> > compulsory for all povers to see real life render times, promising to
> > bring POV back in the race without as much noise as Cycles! can't
> > wait for the Spectral revolution as well !
>
> I was more thinking along the lines of OGL or WebGl, may be not even
> directly. Maybe "compiling" SDL to WebGL. Looking at for example
> http://doc.babylonjs.com/generals/File_Format_Map_(.babylon)#example it
> does not look impossible, although several features don't match, and
> you'ld be tied to another framework.
> Iirc there is a way from Blender to the web too?
>
> Ingo

Yes there are. POV is a knife, uberpov a sharper one... Blender is like a whole
kitchen with an escalator down the window to vegetables in the garden. :-P

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Am 18.11.2016 um 08:06 schrieb Larry Hudson:

> Reminds me of the advice I read somewhere...
> 
> If it moves and it shouldn't, use duct tape.
> if it doesn't move and it should, use WD-40.

I heard the same about Loctite and WD-40, though that was specifically
about screws.

Post a reply to this message

Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> On 11/15/2016 2:32 PM, LanuHum wrote:
> >> Stephen wrote:
> >> >
> >>> >>
> >>> >>Well, I am going to spend some more time in Blender. To see what I can
> >>> >>break.;-)
> > You could ask me and Mr...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> You might regret that kind offer. :)
>
>
> --
>
> Regards
>      Stephen

I help others learn Blender.
I can try to help you.

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On 11/18/2016 11:13 AM, Mr wrote:
> ingo <ing### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
>> in news:web.5829956d5604f2316086ed00@news.povray.org Mr wrote:
>>
>>
>>> By the way, about several renderers for one POV SDL, it's already
>>> available as well with UberPOV, trying its stochastic AA should be
>>> compulsory for all povers to see real life render times, promising to
>>> bring POV back in the race without as much noise as Cycles! can't
>>> wait for the Spectral revolution as well !
>>
>> I was more thinking along the lines of OGL or WebGl, may be not even
>> directly. Maybe "compiling" SDL to WebGL. Looking at for example
>> http://doc.babylonjs.com/generals/File_Format_Map_(.babylon)#example it
>> does not look impossible, although several features don't match, and
>> you'ld be tied to another framework.
>> Iirc there is a way from Blender to the web too?
>>
>> Ingo
>
> Yes there are. POV is a knife, uberpov a sharper one... Blender is like a whole
> kitchen with an escalator down the window to vegetables in the garden. :-P
>
>
>

And a blender. ;)


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On 11/18/2016 12:58 PM, clipka wrote:
> Am 18.11.2016 um 08:06 schrieb Larry Hudson:
>
>> Reminds me of the advice I read somewhere...
>>
>> If it moves and it shouldn't, use duct tape.
>> if it doesn't move and it should, use WD-40.
>
> I heard the same about Loctite and WD-40, though that was specifically
> about screws.
>

It sounds like a navy saying to me. :)

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> On 11/17/2016 4:50 PM, nemesis wrote:
> > sure bet, sometimes I lurk in just to watch Stephen and Jim amusing interchanges
> > :)
>
> You are welcome to join in anytime and Jim will sell you a copy of the
> rules. ;-)

too many anglophone puns for me to bear, I'm afraid :)

Post a reply to this message

Mike Horvath <mik### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Also, I think Inkscape can export to POV-Ray, but I have never used the
> feature.

it used to export vector paths into povray lathe objects, yes.  I used it once,
was pretty alright.

I use Blender as a hobbyist and since then have had little interest into
scripting.  Though for purely abstract math-like CG, povray has no competition.
The kind of incredible images you'd get out of competitions such as povray short
code contest.  we need more of that...

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On 11/18/2016 4:17 PM, nemesis wrote:
> Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
>> On 11/17/2016 4:50 PM, nemesis wrote:
>>> sure bet, sometimes I lurk in just to watch Stephen and Jim amusing interchanges
>>> :)
>>
>> You are welcome to join in anytime and Jim will sell you a copy of the
>> rules. ;-)
>
> too many anglophone puns for me to bear, I'm afraid :)
>
>
>
But that's the game. ;)

And now we have two letters in our mailbag. :)

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On 11/17/2016 12:14 AM, [GDS|Entropy] wrote:
>> just look how far in the past it became:  we are still using usenet to talk
>> >about it.  how about some whatsapp? :p
>> >
> I like this forum because of the people. Many of you have been around for
> decades, and it is nice to be able to come around and chat with all of the
> folks I knew long ago.
>

So do I. I don't need a render as good as PovRay but I have stuck with 
it because I like the people on the newsgroups.

> Without the people, their friendliness, and their willingness to assist and
> share, Pov would never have become what it is.
>

Can you remember when it was all, RTFM?
I am glad those days are gone.


> Half of what makes Pov great is this community in my opinion.

The other half is the great images some folk can make.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> On 11/17/2016 12:14 AM, [GDS|Entropy] wrote:
> >> just look how far in the past it became:  we are still using usenet to talk
> >> >about it.  how about some whatsapp? :p
> >> >
> > I like this forum because of the people. Many of you have been around for
> > decades, and it is nice to be able to come around and chat with all of the
> > folks I knew long ago.
> >
>
> So do I. I don't need a render as good as PovRay but I have stuck with
> it because I like the people on the newsgroups.
>
> > Without the people, their friendliness, and their willingness to assist and
> > share, Pov would never have become what it is.
> >
>
> Can you remember when it was all, RTFM?
> I am glad those days are gone.
>
>
> > Half of what makes Pov great is this community in my opinion.
>
> The other half is the great images some folk can make.
>
> --
>
> Regards
>      Stephen


Indeed! I would never have launched in export scripting without the safety net
and responsiveness these newsgroups gave me ! Thanks

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Am 2016-11-17 17:23, also sprach clipka:

> I once spent hours beside a climate chamber to hunt for a bug that the
> hardware guys couldn't figure out.
>

I got heat because a custom Altera part I was driving failed with my 
software. The part worked just fine with the old software (which was 
magnitudes too slow for which it was thrown out).  Clearly my problem. 
After a month of begging, I finally got an afternoon with the hardware 
guy, who took 10 minutes to figure out that the output of an 8 input 
nand gate was ringing into an adjacent line causing false triggers 
elsewhere.  Didn't show up when the part was running at 10% capacity.

And then, and *then*, I got big heat because the i82557 SIO chip would 
start sending 0's. No errors, hardware checksum was ok. This was my 
problem too.  Years later, I found out that shiny new Linux 1.0.3 won't 
support network cards with this chip (3C507) because of this known problem.
Thanks for not mentioning that when you sold us on the buggy chip, intel.

-- 
dik

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Am 2016-11-14 09:22, also sprach Stephen Klebs:
> POV-Ray is still around, a pioneer in open
> source,

Once upon a time, at a show (Hamburg?), Richard Stallman, surrounded by 
his disciples, walked by the POV-Ray display and gave it a nice Roman 
Thumbs Down, because it wasn't GPL'd.
-- 
dik

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Am 18.12.2016 um 13:13 schrieb dick balaska:
> Am 2016-11-17 17:23, also sprach clipka:
> 
>> I once spent hours beside a climate chamber to hunt for a bug that the
>> hardware guys couldn't figure out.
>>
> 
> I got heat because a custom Altera part I was driving failed with my
> software. The part worked just fine with the old software (which was
> magnitudes too slow for which it was thrown out).  Clearly my problem.
> After a month of begging, I finally got an afternoon with the hardware
> guy, who took 10 minutes to figure out that the output of an 8 input
> nand gate was ringing into an adjacent line causing false triggers
> elsewhere.  Didn't show up when the part was running at 10% capacity.

Ah, that sounds like fun!

> And then, and *then*, I got big heat because the i82557 SIO chip would
> start sending 0's. No errors, hardware checksum was ok. This was my
> problem too.  Years later, I found out that shiny new Linux 1.0.3 won't
> support network cards with this chip (3C507) because of this known problem.
> Thanks for not mentioning that when you sold us on the buggy chip, intel.

That reminds me of the fun the hardware guys had when it turned out that
the designated MCU for the product didn't like to be started up too
shortly after losing power.

And I mean, it *really* didn't like that. Not in an "I'll throw a
tantrum" way, nor the "I'll go sulking in the corner for a while" kind.

No, I mean the "over my dead body" sort of dislike.

Literally.

Not good in a car, where engine start can occasionally cause power to
cut out on less-important pieces of equipment like ours.

Since a revised MCU was nowhere to be seen, and turning to a different
product was a no-go that late in the development cycle, hardware guys
had to add an extra circuit to the board that would absolutely
positively prevent the device from turning back on for a while after
powerdown.

Which of course would haunt us later down the line, when the car
manufacturer (who had approved the stopgap measure) complained that the
device didn't power up fast enough in some new test scenarios.

I miss that kind of bullcrap. Really.

Post a reply to this message

On 12/18/2016 12:13 PM, dick balaska wrote:
> I finally got an afternoon with the hardware guy, who took 10 minutes to
> figure out that

And he is probably saying that it took ages to get to talk to a S/ware guy.
Teamwork Rulz!

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On 12/18/2016 07:36 AM, dick balaska wrote:
> Am 2016-11-14 09:22, also sprach Stephen Klebs:
>> POV-Ray is still around, a pioneer in open
>> source,
>
> Once upon a time, at a show (Hamburg?), Richard Stallman, surrounded by
> his disciples, walked by the POV-Ray display and gave it a nice Roman
> Thumbs Down, because it wasn't GPL'd.

:-) I'd not heard that story.

Bill P.

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On 12/18/2016 7:36 AM, dick balaska wrote:
> Am 2016-11-14 09:22, also sprach Stephen Klebs:
>> POV-Ray is still around, a pioneer in open
>> source,
>
> Once upon a time, at a show (Hamburg?), Richard Stallman, surrounded by
> his disciples, walked by the POV-Ray display and gave it a nice Roman
> Thumbs Down, because it wasn't GPL'd.

LOL

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