Brook Monroe wrote:
> 
> Matthew Mc Clement wrote:
> 
> > Yup, you're right, moray is to [sic] confusing. I myself tried and then
> > stopped using it almost immediately. Can't get used to the interface.
> 
> Obviously you've never seen AutoCAD.  THAT's confusing.  Moray is the
> least-confusing CAD interface I've ever seen, and I'm very surprised to find
> this opinion voiced.  What is it that you find so confusing?  (I'm a
> Moray-for-Windows beta-tester, BTW.)
> 
> jbm!

Well, I just can't get used to the interface. It bugs me for some
reason. If you run Linux try Amapi(http://www.yonowat.com). The
interface is totaly original, and I have been using it for about 6
months now, and I guess I've just gotten to used to it. I can't even use
basic modellers like Breeze Designer, Povlab, GUM, just to name a few.
PovsB is about the only windows modeller I can use. Of the dos modellers
I can use MNM but thats USE, I am by no means a pro at it. In fact I
have trouble with most modellers. The ones I can use best are Amapi(of
course :)), Truespace 2, Extreme 3D, Infini-D(only a little), PovsB and
MNM. Imagine, 3DS, Lightwave just seem too confusing for some reason or
another....which is a pitty as Truespace is the only modeller that
supports reasonably easy and good animation effects...sigh!

Cheers, Matthew

P.S. I have tried Autocad 14 and yeah, you're right, it is a bit
confusing ;-). Microstation is nice, but even the student licenses are a
bit heavy(£700 last time I checked).

Post a reply to this message

Matthew Mc Clement wrote:

> Well, I just can't get used to the interface. It bugs me for some
> reason. If you run Linux try Amapi(http://www.yonowat.com).

Nope.  Can't run Linux.  Too used to MS Office.  (Weak reasoning, perhaps, but by
now it's a habit.)

> The interface is totaly original,

Actually, I find that a frightening thought. :)

> and I have been using it for about 6
> months now, and I guess I've just gotten to used to it. I can't even use
> basic modellers like Breeze Designer, Povlab, GUM, just to name a few.

I'll agree with you there.

> PovsB is about the only windows modeller I can use. Of the dos modellers
> I can use MNM but thats USE, I am by no means a pro at it. In fact I
> have trouble with most modellers. The ones I can use best are Amapi(of
> course :)), Truespace 2, Extreme 3D, Infini-D(only a little), PovsB and
> MNM. Imagine, 3DS, Lightwave just seem too confusing for some reason or
> another....which is a pitty as Truespace is the only modeller that
> supports reasonably easy and good animation effects...sigh!
>

I never could figure out Truespace's UI.  I tried it for several versions and I
still couldn't figure out how to do the simplest thing.  Lightwave I had more
success at, except for getting the lighting right.

Of course, I program for a living.  I don't do rendering for a living.  (And some
say you can tell that from my work.)

jbm!

Post a reply to this message

Brook Monroe wrote:

> Matthew Mc Clement wrote:
>
> > Kardal wrote:
> > >
> > > Starting with moray?!  I started and still use raw pov code.  Moray is too
> > > confusing.
> >
> > Yup, you're right, moray is to [sic] confusing. I myself tried and then
> > stopped using it almost immediately. Can't get used to the interface.
>
> Obviously you've never seen AutoCAD.  THAT's confusing.  Moray is the
> least-confusing CAD interface I've ever seen, and I'm very surprised to find
> this opinion voiced.  What is it that you find so confusing?  (I'm a
> Moray-for-Windows beta-tester, BTW.)
>
> jbm!

  I've been spoiled by the powerful and expensive CADKey 97 (www.cadkey.com).
Unfortunatley, I can't use it for pov because there is no cheap direct, or even
indirect, way to export to pov.  It exports Autocad DXF files, but I haven't found
a good DXF to Anything I Can Use converter.

I'll have to wait and see what the windows version looks like.

~Kardal~

Post a reply to this message

Kardal wrote:

> Brook Monroe wrote:
>
> I've been spoiled by the powerful and expensive CADKey 97 (www.cadkey.com).

Oh, ~expensive~.  Well, I was going to look, but I can't afford expensive right now.

> Unfortunatley, I can't use it for pov because there is no cheap direct, or even
> indirect, way to export to pov.  It exports Autocad DXF files, but I haven't found
> a good DXF to Anything I Can Use converter.
>

Any of the DXF-to-POV converters I've seen produce less than useful results because
you can't tag different parts of the object with different textures--everything comes
out as a monolithic mesh.  That's not much use when you're rendering an F-14 or
what-have-you.  The Win32 version still sports the 4-view interface, which is what
attracted me to Moray in the first place.  (That, and the lack of that annoying
"command-line" thing that AutoCad and MNM do.)

jbm!

Post a reply to this message

There is one out there, I had it a while ago and lost the zip of
it...you can export dxf-pov and either label parts with a texture
(pov-original) before export or in the pov code the parts are either
union triangles or bicubics, separate, and can be re textured.

It very much depends on the original dxf, I've found - some let you
export parts, other seem to be one unit...???
-- 
** Lets clean up the world - kill a politician today!!
** The only good politician is a dead politician.
** To email me: bay### [at] coastlinkcomau
** Believe 1% of what you see or hear.
** Always read between the lines.

Post a reply to this message

BearFace wrote:
> 
> There is one out there, I had it a while ago and lost the zip of
> it...you can export dxf-pov and either label parts with a texture
> (pov-original) before export or in the pov code the parts are either
> union triangles or bicubics, separate, and can be re textured.
> 
> It very much depends on the original dxf, I've found - some let you
> export parts, other seem to be one unit...???

Actually it really depends on the program you are importing the dxf
into. dxf supports both layers and different colours for the various
parts. For example: Extreme 3d imports dxf files but for some reason
totaly ignores the layers. If you want sperate the pieces you need to
make them different colours even although extreme 3d supports layers??!!
On the other hand, Breeze Designer just imports the dxf file as a big
mesh(actually as a 2d dxf extrusion I think but its about the same
thing) and so you can't texturize the seperate parts.

what it all sums up as is that I personally hate the dxf format because
the files are large and clumsy. I'd have prefered it if the .3ds format
was standard as its files are more compact. Admittedly it is binary and
I think there may be problems with transfering it between to types of
computers but then you can just use .asc files which are the plain text
versions of 3ds files....

Cheers, Matthew

P.S. Have you tried WCVT2POV? Wriiten by Keith Rule. Try a serach on
altavista as I've lost the url to his webpage....

Post a reply to this message

Matthew Mc Clement wrote:

> BearFace wrote:
> >
> > There is one out there, I had it a while ago and lost the zip of
> > it...you can export dxf-pov and either label parts with a texture
> > (pov-original) before export or in the pov code the parts are either
> > union triangles or bicubics, separate, and can be re textured.
> >
> > It very much depends on the original dxf, I've found - some let you
> > export parts, other seem to be one unit...???
>
> Actually it really depends on the program you are importing the dxf
> into. dxf supports both layers and different colours for the various
> parts. For example: Extreme 3d imports dxf files but for some reason
> totaly ignores the layers. If you want sperate the pieces you need to
> make them different colours even although extreme 3d supports layers??!!
> On the other hand, Breeze Designer just imports the dxf file as a big
> mesh(actually as a 2d dxf extrusion I think but its about the same
> thing) and so you can't texturize the seperate parts.
>
> what it all sums up as is that I personally hate the dxf format because
> the files are large and clumsy. I'd have prefered it if the .3ds format
> was standard as its files are more compact. Admittedly it is binary and
> I think there may be problems with transfering it between to types of
> computers but then you can just use .asc files which are the plain text
> versions of 3ds files....
>
> Cheers, Matthew
>
> P.S. Have you tried WCVT2POV? Wriiten by Keith Rule. Try a serach on
> altavista as I've lost the url to his webpage....

 Tried it, did not work.  Shame.

~Kardal~

Post a reply to this message

I would bet that Crossroads(the new and improved version of WCVT2POV) would
convert it. Try it out.

Kardal wrote:

> Matthew Mc Clement wrote:
>
> > BearFace wrote:
> > >
> > > There is one out there, I had it a while ago and lost the zip of
> > > it...you can export dxf-pov and either label parts with a texture
> > > (pov-original) before export or in the pov code the parts are either
> > > union triangles or bicubics, separate, and can be re textured.
> > >
> > > It very much depends on the original dxf, I've found - some let you
> > > export parts, other seem to be one unit...???
> >
> > Actually it really depends on the program you are importing the dxf
> > into. dxf supports both layers and different colours for the various
> > parts. For example: Extreme 3d imports dxf files but for some reason
> > totaly ignores the layers. If you want sperate the pieces you need to
> > make them different colours even although extreme 3d supports layers??!!
> > On the other hand, Breeze Designer just imports the dxf file as a big
> > mesh(actually as a 2d dxf extrusion I think but its about the same
> > thing) and so you can't texturize the seperate parts.
> >
> > what it all sums up as is that I personally hate the dxf format because
> > the files are large and clumsy. I'd have prefered it if the .3ds format
> > was standard as its files are more compact. Admittedly it is binary and
> > I think there may be problems with transfering it between to types of
> > computers but then you can just use .asc files which are the plain text
> > versions of 3ds files....
> >
> > Cheers, Matthew
> >
> > P.S. Have you tried WCVT2POV? Wriiten by Keith Rule. Try a serach on
> > altavista as I've lost the url to his webpage....
>
>  Tried it, did not work.  Shame.
>
> ~Kardal~



--
                    Bryan Cool
   **********
       http://xoom.com/Cool3d/ - Cool3D
            ********************************
       http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/5621/
             Bryan Cool's Web of Spider-Man

Post a reply to this message

Michael,

	If you see this please give me a city block number!  I
	have sent email twice, perhaps it did not get through.

_John Miskinis_

Post a reply to this message

John,

On Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:38:35 -0500, John Miskinis <mis### [at] emccom>
wrote:

>Michael,
>
>	If you see this please give me a city block number!  I
>	have sent email twice, perhaps it did not get through.
>
>_John Miskinis_


I have replied twice !

Did you get any of them ?  If not, what is your e-mail address?

I've tried mis### [at] emccom, which bounced, and mis### [at] milemccom
and mis### [at] docmilemccom which didn't bounce.

Bye for now

Michael

----------------------------------

Copied message:-

Hello John,

John Miskinis wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>         This was/is a very cool idea.  I would like to join this
>         effort.  Please assign me a "spot", and I'll create a
>         basic scene, and build on it over time.

Thanks John.
Your block has been claimed.  I'll be updating my homepage soon with a
guide for builders, but briefly, this is all you should need to get
started.

The blocks are +112.5 units in the X and Z directions( 225m square),
+Y is up,and yours is the block whose centre is translated < -125, 0,
-875 >
from the origin. The scale is 1 unit = 1 metre.

The ground for the city is a plane with a 1000 unit deep box cut from
it
under the city to allow cunstruction below ground level.  This means 
that your file will need to contain your own ground, with a line
something
like this:-

box {<-112.5,0,-112.5> <112.5,-.1,112.5> translate < -125, 0, -875 >
pigment
 {color rgb <0.1,0.8,0.1>}}

Your contribution can use bitmaps and multiple .inc files, but should
be
sent as one compressed file if possible.  To avoid file name clashes I
am
allocating everyone a prefix for their filenames, yours is "bb".
Please 
start all of your filenames with this, and please use only lower case
in 
your filenames.

I look forward to seeing your contribution,

Bye for now

Michael

Post a reply to this message

I think that maybe it's time to start a new VR Plot thread, this one is 15
messages deep!

~Kardal~

P.S.  My plot update is coming in a week or so.

Michael Kent wrote:

> John,
>
> On Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:38:35 -0500, John Miskinis <mis### [at] emccom>
> wrote:
>
> >Michael,
> >
> >       If you see this please give me a city block number!  I
> >       have sent email twice, perhaps it did not get through.
> >
> >_John Miskinis_
>
> I have replied twice !
>
> Did you get any of them ?  If not, what is your e-mail address?
>
> I've tried mis### [at] emccom, which bounced, and mis### [at] milemccom
> and mis### [at] docmilemccom which didn't bounce.
>
> Bye for now
>
> Michael
>
> ----------------------------------
>
> Copied message:-
>
> Hello John,
>
> John Miskinis wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> >         This was/is a very cool idea.  I would like to join this
> >         effort.  Please assign me a "spot", and I'll create a
> >         basic scene, and build on it over time.
>
> Thanks John.
> Your block has been claimed.  I'll be updating my homepage soon with a
> guide for builders, but briefly, this is all you should need to get
> started.
>
> The blocks are +112.5 units in the X and Z directions( 225m square),
> +Y is up,and yours is the block whose centre is translated < -125, 0,
> -875 >
> from the origin. The scale is 1 unit = 1 metre.
>
> The ground for the city is a plane with a 1000 unit deep box cut from
> it
> under the city to allow cunstruction below ground level.  This means
> that your file will need to contain your own ground, with a line
> something
> like this:-
>
> box {<-112.5,0,-112.5> <112.5,-.1,112.5> translate < -125, 0, -875 >
> pigment
>  {color rgb <0.1,0.8,0.1>}}
>
> Your contribution can use bitmaps and multiple .inc files, but should
> be
> sent as one compressed file if possible.  To avoid file name clashes I
> am
> allocating everyone a prefix for their filenames, yours is "bb".
> Please
> start all of your filenames with this, and please use only lower case
> in
> your filenames.
>
> I look forward to seeing your contribution,
>
> Bye for now
>
> Michael

Post a reply to this message

Kardal wrote:
> 
> I think that maybe it's time to start a new VR Plot thread, this 
> one is 15 messages deep!
> 

Or possibly a newsgroup to itself since this is an ongoing project.

--
Andy McCoy

Post a reply to this message

Sound good to me.

Corné
-- 
Please also reply by E-mail.
Please remove the 'no spam' # from my address when replying by E-mail

Andy McCoy <sau### [at] mordorthoorg> schreef in artikel
<34BD51C6.12ED989E@mordor.tho.org>...
> Kardal wrote:
> > 
> > I think that maybe it's time to start a new VR Plot thread, this 
> > one is 15 messages deep!
> > 
> 
> Or possibly a newsgroup to itself since this is an ongoing project.
> 
> --
> Andy McCoy
>

Post a reply to this message

> 
>   I've been spoiled by the powerful and expensive CADKey 97
(www.cadkey.com).
> Unfortunatley, I can't use it for pov because there is no cheap direct,
or even
> indirect, way to export to pov.  It exports Autocad DXF files, but I
haven't found
> a good DXF to Anything I Can Use converter.
> 

I have wrote a raw file output option in ACIS that will output grouped
triangles for each face.  Raw output would be real easy for CADKey
to do since it uses ACIS.  I know the developer that works on CADKey
and I'll see if he can put in the option for raw output.  

Once you have the raw file you can then import it into modelers like
PoVSB that can handle grouped raw files.

	Jeff

--
Jeff Hauswirth			Spatial Technology
Software Engineer		2425 55th Street
303-449-0649x1315		Boulder CO, 80301
jha### [at] spatialcom		http://www.spatial.com/

Post a reply to this message

Jeff Hauswirth wrote:

> >
> >   I've been spoiled by the powerful and expensive CADKey 97
> (www.cadkey.com).
> > Unfortunatley, I can't use it for pov because there is no cheap direct,
> or even
> > indirect, way to export to pov.  It exports Autocad DXF files, but I
> haven't found
> > a good DXF to Anything I Can Use converter.
> >
>
> I have wrote a raw file output option in ACIS that will output grouped
> triangles for each face.  Raw output would be real easy for CADKey
> to do since it uses ACIS.  I know the developer that works on CADKey
> and I'll see if he can put in the option for raw output.
>
> Once you have the raw file you can then import it into modelers like
> PoVSB that can handle grouped raw files.
>
>         Jeff
>

Interesting.  However, most of what you said is greek to me.

If you know CADKey, then you should be able to find out the different formats
it exports to, I don't have them handy.  My school is dedicated to that
program, but if I can get a CADKey2POVRay converter, ANYTHING will be
possible.

Since it is presently Christmas Break here, I won't be able to get you a list
of formats for a couple weeks, but if you need them I can get them.

~Kardal~

http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/2352/povpage.html

Post a reply to this message

On Fri, 12 Dec 1997 21:41:10 GMT, mic### [at] enterprisenet (Michael
Kent) wrote:


>1: Scale.  Is 1 unit =25m to tight?  If so what about 1 unit = 10 m,
>or  1 unit = 1 m.?
For easy manipulation it's easier group the entire block in a union
object anyway. Thus doing a detailed blobk then shrinking it down
should work fine but remember that really tiny objects and really
large ones start to produce errors. Try doing the solar system to
scale and you'll know what I mean.

>2: Detail level.  I understand and share the concerns about the amount
>of detail, and how this could affect rendering as the city grows.
Well perhaps this peak memory usage idea should be confirmed. Every
block has a certain amount of memory alloted. But what should it be.
Also perhaps some standard tree objects should be defined as triangle
objects then refered to as meshes. It is my understanding that they
only need to be put into memory once then. Also I think that Mapping
of any kind should be shyied away from or kept to quite small gifs (or
png's whatever's smaller). You can do some pretty clever stuff with 3d
textures. The idea of having a detail level is good but it should
probably be declared as detail = off  and detail = on. Then restrict
each block to use a predefined memory usage when on and a smaller
predifined one when off.

Remember that in order to merge the city together well some standards
should probably be met with textures. Perhaps the Ambient values
should be decided beforehand. I know that for bright daytime scenes I
have a fairly high ambient value but for late afternoon scenes I lower
it. A distint time of day should be defined as well as a lighting
setup. After it's finished these can be changed quite easily from
scene to scene.

Just one more question. Who's doing the roads?

Post a reply to this message

Michael Kent wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> I've decided that it's time for POVRay to have a place to live [...]

The concept is fascinating, Micheal.

I've downloaded the zip file and attempted to render it on my
Linux box. The Linux version of POVRay uses lower case names
for it's include files and is case sensative. This means that
POVRay for Linux can't grok the upper case DOS/Win95 include
file name convention.

If the Win95 version of POVRay is case INsensative w/r/t file
names in #include statements, could I persuade you to edit
city.pov and change the file names to lower case as a convenience,
to us Unix users?

If this can't be done, then another way to fix the problem is for
Unix users to make symbolic links from the supplied include files
to their upper case equivalents (e.g "ln -s atmos.inc ATMOS.INC", etc.)

Post a reply to this message

Michael Kent wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> I've decided that it's time for POVRay to have a place to live, a
> place to call home, so I'm building it a city.
> The first phase of the building is a series of 9 * 9 blocks, with
> roads 1 unit wide seperating them.
> Phase 2 will be a park, shopping complex, residential area and
> whatever else I think of.
>
> If YOU would like to build in POVRay City mail me and I will allocate
> you a plot.  You then mail me your scene file, and I will "include" it
> in the city scene file.  I will put all of the scene files on my web
> page so that anyone who wants to can get them and trace the city.
>
> Anyone interested ????

    Hi!  Well, I'm still a VERY newbie in POV, but that's a terrific
idea!  When you have things underway, post again so that I can go and see
your progress!

    Best of luck,

Dana

Post a reply to this message

Jeez, you must be replying to a very oulde post, I remember taking part in
their discussions about the virtual POV city a good number of months back.
Kent actually got around to build it and it was really going a fine way, I
don't know what happened it since, I lost the URL and never looked for it
(too busy) but I would think this project is still well alive, and if it is,
it must be quite advanced.
Maybe by looking in the archives (are there any archives for these mailing
groups, I don't even know) if there are any, might lead you to the URL, else
a web search, ...
I remember a few nice looking pictures for the start of the project.

See ya,
Al.


Dana Dauphinee wrote:

> Michael Kent wrote:
>
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > I've decided that it's time for POVRay to have a place to live, a
> > place to call home, so I'm building it a city.
> > The first phase of the building is a series of 9 * 9 blocks, with
> > roads 1 unit wide seperating them.
> > Phase 2 will be a park, shopping complex, residential area and
> > whatever else I think of.
> >
> > If YOU would like to build in POVRay City mail me and I will allocate
> > you a plot.  You then mail me your scene file, and I will "include" it
> > in the city scene file.  I will put all of the scene files on my web
> > page so that anyone who wants to can get them and trace the city.
> >
> > Anyone interested ????
>
>     Hi!  Well, I'm still a VERY newbie in POV, but that's a terrific
> idea!  When you have things underway, post again so that I can go and see
> your progress!
>
>     Best of luck,
>
> Dana



--
ANTI SPAM / ANTI ARROSAGE COMMERCIAL :
Pour me répondre, veuillez enlever le Z de mon adresse.
To answer me, please take out the Z from my address.

Post a reply to this message

Kardal wrote:
>  I say who cares.  What's important is that our scenes look good.
> 
> Maybe there should be a separate POV-City for those who want to do it the other
> way.  I'd be willing to manage it, and I could usually update it once a day, if
> needed.
> 
> Opinions?
> 
> ~Kardal~
> 
> http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2352/povpage.html

What for?  You can rotate the scene any way you like and even make the
x-axis be up  :-)

Post a reply to this message

Hi,

>Jeez, you must be replying to a very oulde post, I remember taking part in
>their discussions about the virtual POV city a good number of months back.
>Kent actually got around to build it and it was really going a fine way, I
>don't know what happened it since, I lost the URL and never looked for it
>(too busy) but I would think this project is still well alive, and if it
is,
>it must be quite advanced.

The url is:
http://homepages.enterprise.net/michaelkent/povraycity/scenes.html

Haven't been there for some weeks though, so I don't know if this url is
still valid.

********************************************
Sebastian Strand
sebastian.strand *AT* pp.inet.fi
http://personal.inet.fi/cool/dragon/vb/
********************************************

Post a reply to this message

Sebastian Strand wrote:

> The url is:
> http://homepages.enterprise.net/michaelkent/povraycity/scenes.html


Well, since you posted this, I kept trying accessing that and the only message
I got was 'sorry, that directory does not exist on this server'  or a similar
message. I also tried a Michael Kent search (Altavista) and a Povraycity
search, but I only came up with a few individuals who all referred back to the
main Povraycity web site as you did, ... which leads to no-where.
So if someone proves me wrong, please explain : new URL ? Dead project ?
Suspended ? It sounded interesting though and even though I did not really want
to take part in it, I would enjoy to see the progress and results.

Cheers,
Al.

--
ANTI SPAM / ANTI ARROSAGE COMMERCIAL :
Pour me répondre, veuillez enlever le Z de mon adresse.
To answer me, please take out the Z from my address.

Post a reply to this message

Sign me up for a piece of your land.

Jack Rivers
omr### [at] sydcomnet


Michael Kent wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> I've decided that it's time for POVRay to have a place to live, a
> place to call home, so I'm building it a city.
> The first phase of the building is a series of 9 * 9 blocks, with
> roads 1 unit wide seperating them.
> Phase 2 will be a park, shopping complex, residential area and
> whatever else I think of.
>
> If YOU would like to build in POVRay City mail me and I will allocate
> you a plot.  You then mail me your scene file, and I will "include" it
> in the city scene file.  I will put all of the scene files on my web
> page so that anyone who wants to can get them and trace the city.
>
> Anyone interested ????
>
> HTTP://homepages.enterprise.net/michaelkent
> e-mail mic### [at] enterprisenet
> Fidonet 2:258/69.10

Post a reply to this message

> Michael Kent wrote:
>
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > I've decided that it's time for POVRay to have a place to live, a
> > place to call home, so I'm building it a city.

Is POV-Ray city back? It would be great!

a.c### [at] iolit
www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Way/8111/

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Alessandro Coppo wrote:
> 
> > Michael Kent wrote:
> >
> > > Hello everyone,
> > >
> > > I've decided that it's time for POVRay to have a place to live, a
> > > place to call home, so I'm building it a city.
> 
> Is POV-Ray city back? It would be great!
> 
> a.c### [at] iolit
> www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Way/8111/

It's predecessor. Pov Main Street, can be found at:

http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/6080/

-- 
Ken Tyler
  
mailto://tylereng@pacbell.net
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/links.htm

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Ken wrote:

> It's predecessor, Pov Main Street, can be found at:

Predecessor was not the correct term since Pov Main Street is the continuation
of the original. 

-- 
Ken Tyler
  
mailto://tylereng@pacbell.net
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/links.htm

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>>Predecessor was not the correct term since Pov Main Street is the
continuation
>>of the original.

Yea!  And with one contributor and my stuff, it's a pretty neked place.

All I ask is for a building or two from each contributor... in metric scale
1 meter=1 pov unit.

Robert J Becraft
aka cas### [at] aolcom

Post a reply to this message

Robert J Becraft wrote:

> Yea!  And with one contributor and my stuff, it's a pretty neked place.
> 
> All I ask is for a building or two from each contributor... in metric scale
> 1 meter=1 pov unit.
> 
> Robert J Becraft
> aka cas### [at] aolcom

Who won the argument in this thread about Y = UP ?

-- 
Ken Tyler
  
mailto://tylereng@pacbell.net
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/links.htm

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Ken wrote:
> 
> Who won the argument in this thread about Y = UP ?
> 

This argument can be won?!
Without military backup?

Margus

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Margus Ramst wrote:
> 
> Ken wrote:
> >
> > Who won the argument in this thread about Y = UP ?
> >
> 
> This argument can be won?!
> Without military backup?
> 
> Margus

  Well I have been threatening to nuke people over on c.g.r.r. I could as
easily extend the same courtesy warning here ; >)

-- 
Ken Tyler
  
mailto://tylereng@pacbell.net
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/links.htm

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Brook Monroe wrote:

> The Y axis is UP?  What country did YOU study geometry in? <G> This is
> going to ruddy well make things difficult to produce in Moray, you know.

    It was one of those fantasy POV universes not just a country.

    As to the general issue, consider writing ascii to the screen in the old
days or even today if anyone is still into it. 0,0 is top left corner, x
increases to the right, y down. It really sucked. With me so far?

    Now the right hand rule to find increasing Z it to "wrap" x into y and
your thumb points at z. With the above system z increases into the screen.
Voila!!! POV-ray. Rather the first incarnation when it was called something
else entirely.

    The next step is to set an arbitrary origin with respect to where the
camera looks. Once you do that 0,0 is no longer in the upper left corner.
This presents a minor problem in conceptualization. X still increases to the
right but y is down that is very annoying to most everyone with math
experience, even those who avoided math as much as possible. But since it is
arbitrary make it up just like all the early computers users thought it
should have been, with 0,0 in the lower left.

    Now where are we? We have corrected the major annoyance of the first
computer screens. However we have that annoying right hand rule making z
increasing coming out of the screen as opposed to the original which was the
opposite and what it is now.

    But which direction z increases is arbitrary so lets make it intuitive.
How far away is an object? The farther away the larger the number, intuitive
with the image.

    Second to lastly, someone comes back and says that is a left-handed
coordinate system. Not that it matters once you simply memorize the
directions of the ups.

    Lastly the docs get all technical on us and start off with saying it is
a left-handed and start confusing people "right" and "left" to so speak.

    Finally there is a solution! Rats become commonplace. Most people are
right handed. Only their left hands are free to figure out which way is up.

    And we have so many POV-ray users who consult their left hands before
getting out of bed so they don't fall to the ceiling. They are among the few
who have to think before they know which way is up.

> I'd like a plot in this little burg of yours, but I'm afraid that it'll
> never work since I'll be using Moray.

    Real men don't use modelers. ;)

Post a reply to this message

Kardal wrote:

> Being an American, using the metric system (1 unit = 25 meters) will be alien
> to me as well.  That is not so easily fixed.

    1 meter is 39.36 or for government work, 3 feet plus 10%. 100 meter 330 feet.
3*meters + .1*3*meters.

Post a reply to this message

Brook Monroe wrote:
> I'd like a plot in this little burg of yours, but I'm afraid that it'll
> never work since I'll be using Moray.

The two most useful transformations to know if you work back and 
forth between POV's native left handed system and Moray's 
pseudo-right handed system:

For any native POV creation you want to #include into a
Moray scene:

/*LHC -> RHC conversion*/ rotate 90*x scale <1,-1,1>

For any Moray creation you want to use in a native POV LHC
system...

/*RHC -> LHC conversion*/ rotate -90*x  scale <1,1,-1>

 
Matt Giwer wrote:
>>   Real men don't use modelers. ;)

Heh. Real raytracers can freely convert between both in their sleep,
and consider text editors just another form of specialty modeller.
:)


--
Charles

Post a reply to this message

Charles Fusner wrote:
> 
> Brook Monroe wrote:
> > I'd like a plot in this little burg of yours, but I'm afraid that it'll
> > never work since I'll be using Moray.
> 
> Heh. Real raytracers can freely convert between both in their sleep,
> and consider text editors just another form of specialty modeller.

Wait a minute... you mean vi *isn't* a modeller??
<grin>

Post a reply to this message

Is this project still active? All the links are dead now, but I live in
hope that it's merely been moved...


Michael Kent wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> I've decided that it's time for POVRay to have a place to live, a
> place to call home, so I'm building it a city.
> The first phase of the building is a series of 9 * 9 blocks, with
> roads 1 unit wide seperating them.
> Phase 2 will be a park, shopping complex, residential area and
> whatever else I think of.
>
> If YOU would like to build in POVRay City mail me and I will allocate
> you a plot.  You then mail me your scene file, and I will "include" it
> in the city scene file.  I will put all of the scene files on my web
> page so that anyone who wants to can get them and trace the city.
>
> Anyone interested ????
>
> HTTP://homepages.enterprise.net/michaelkent
> e-mail mic### [at] enterprisenet
> Fidonet 2:258/69.10

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On Thu, 22 Nov 2001 12:02:47 +0000, s1631001 wrote:
> Is this project still active? All the links are dead now, but I live in
> hope that it's merely been moved...

As far as I know, it's dead.  It's been at least three years since I heard
anything about it.

-- 
#macro R(L P)sphere{L F}cylinder{L P F}#end#macro P(V)merge{R(z+a z)R(-z a-z)R(a
-z-z-z a+z)torus{1F clipped_by{plane{a 0}}}translate V}#end#macro Z(a F T)merge{
P(z+a)P(z-a)R(-z-z-x a)pigment{rgbt 1}hollow interior{media{emission T}}finish{
reflection.1}}#end Z(-x-x.2y)Z(-x-x.4x)camera{location z*-10rotate x*90}

Post a reply to this message

"Ron Parker" <ron### [at] povrayorg> wrote in message
news:slr### [at] fwicom...
> On Thu, 22 Nov 2001 12:02:47 +0000, s1631001 wrote:
> > Is this project still active? All the links are dead now, but I live in
> > hope that it's merely been moved...
>
> As far as I know, it's dead.  It's been at least three years since I heard
> anything about it.

There is at least one place I found about it.
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/6080/povcity.htm

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I'm remaking my website at the minute, so do you think anyone would be interested if
I were to resurrect POV-City as part of it? (Obviously I'll Need Michael's
premission first)

From the Grey Knight
//@---signature---
//  Grey Knight's site of the week: http://mathworld.wolfram.com

Ron Parker wrote:

> On Thu, 22 Nov 2001 12:02:47 +0000, s1631001 wrote:
> > Is this project still active? All the links are dead now, but I live in
> > hope that it's merely been moved...
>
> As far as I know, it's dead.  It's been at least three years since I heard
> anything about it.
>
> --
> #macro R(L P)sphere{L F}cylinder{L P F}#end#macro P(V)merge{R(z+a z)R(-z a-z)R(a
> -z-z-z a+z)torus{1F clipped_by{plane{a 0}}}translate V}#end#macro Z(a F T)merge{
> P(z+a)P(z-a)R(-z-z-x a)pigment{rgbt 1}hollow interior{media{emission T}}finish{
> reflection.1}}#end Z(-x-x.2y)Z(-x-x.4x)camera{location z*-10rotate x*90}

Post a reply to this message

If I was to incorporate POV-City in my forthcoming website, would there
still be interest in it? I don't want to step on POV-Street's toes, so
perhaps we could work something out between us?

Ron Parker wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 22 Nov 2001 12:02:47 +0000, s1631001 wrote:
> > Is this project still active? All the links are dead now, but I live in
> > hope that it's merely been moved...
> 
> As far as I know, it's dead.  It's been at least three years since I heard
> anything about it.
> 
> --
> #macro R(L P)sphere{L F}cylinder{L P F}#end#macro P(V)merge{R(z+a z)R(-z a-z)R(a
> -z-z-z a+z)torus{1F clipped_by{plane{a 0}}}translate V}#end#macro Z(a F T)merge{
> P(z+a)P(z-a)R(-z-z-x a)pigment{rgbt 1}hollow interior{media{emission T}}finish{
> reflection.1}}#end Z(-x-x.2y)Z(-x-x.4x)camera{location z*-10rotate x*90}

-- 
From the Grey Knight
//@---signature---
//  Grey Knight's site of the week: 
url{ "http://mathworld.wolfram.com" }

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"Ron Parker" <ron### [at] povrayorg> a écrit dans le message de news:
slr### [at] fwicom...
> As far as I know, it's dead.  It's been at least three years since I heard
> anything about it.

I remember that the first (and last) time I was there there was a building
with a big swastika right in front... It was a little bit strange, to say
the less, and may have had something to do with the disappearance of the
project.

G.


--

**********************
http://www.oyonale.com
**********************
- Graphic experiments
- POV-Ray and Poser computer images
- Posters


> --
> #macro R(L P)sphere{L F}cylinder{L P F}#end#macro P(V)merge{R(z+a z)R(-z
a-z)R(a
> -z-z-z a+z)torus{1F clipped_by{plane{a 0}}}translate V}#end#macro Z(a F
T)merge{
> P(z+a)P(z-a)R(-z-z-x a)pigment{rgbt 1}hollow interior{media{emission
T}}finish{
> reflection.1}}#end Z(-x-x.2y)Z(-x-x.4x)camera{location z*-10rotate x*90}

Post a reply to this message

"Gilles Tran" <tra### [at] inapginrafr> wrote in message
news:3bfe7920$1@news.povray.org...
> "Ron Parker" <ron### [at] povrayorg> a écrit dans le message de news:
> slr### [at] fwicom...
> > As far as I know, it's dead.  It's been at least three years since I
heard
> > anything about it.
>
> I remember that the first (and last) time I was there there was a building
> with a big swastika right in front... It was a little bit strange, to say
> the less, and may have had something to do with the disappearance of the
> project.

Nice city gone bad?  Well, not like total and absolute freedom couldn't be
somewhat constrained (censored).  The images I've seen of the project showed
promise.

I guess in keeping with realism such a place would have every form of
civilization, culture, and anarchy.  Which, as a rendered conglomerate,
could be rather interesting.  Only that if it were not policed and
politicked it wouldn't look anything but a mess  :-)

Bob H.

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Ah, so that's where I made this post. I'm moving my discussion to
povray.general, but you can (obviously!) continue your own stuff here.
(Like a little upstart like me could stop you two!)

s1631001 wrote:
> 
> If I was to incorporate POV-City in my forthcoming website, would there
> still be interest in it? I don't want to step on POV-Street's toes, so
> perhaps we could work something out between us?

-- 
From the Grey Knight
//@---signature---
contact{ email "gre### [at] yahoocom" }
//  Grey Knight's site of the week: 
url{ "http://mathworld.wolfram.com" }

Post a reply to this message

s1631001 wrote:
> I'm moving my discussion to povray.general...

I'm an idiot.

-- 
From the Grey Knight
//@---signature---
contact{ email "gre### [at] yahoocom" }
//  Grey Knight's site of the week: 
url{ "http://mathworld.wolfram.com" }

Post a reply to this message

s1631001 wrote:
> 
> s1631001 wrote:
> > I'm moving my discussion to povray.general...
> 
> I'm an idiot.

But we understand.

-- 
Ken Tyler

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> 1: Scale.  Is 1 unit =25m to tight?  If so what about 1 unit = 10 m,
> or  1 unit = 1 m.?

Definately 1m=1 unit

>
>
> 2: Detail level.  I understand and share the concerns about the amount
>
>
>

Well, It realy depends on how big the city is going to be.It could be a
real pain to design when you have to worry about detail all the time.

> 3: The Plane (grass in the basement)  I'll cut a hole in it, and give
> a box as a standard floor which people can cut through and build
> around as they wish.
>

How can you make holes in objects ?? I dont quite understand
differencing.  :(

> 4: Are the plots the right size ?  At current scale they are about 225
>
> m square.
>

Would it be possible to have smaller or larger plots ?  or is it just
too difficult because of the roads ?and are you going to have main roads
? or is the whole thing going to be just one big square boring grid !?

> 5: It has been pointed out that excluding image maps will be a real
> pain for certain things.  How best can these be controlled so as to
> avoid duplicate file names?
>

If 2 are the same just rename one with a 2 or however many of them there
are eg,brick.gif
brick2.gif
brick3.gif

And you would also have to change the texture to the new name in the pov
file.



Also, are you going to test them all out to check weather they are good
enough.
The city could look bad if there are some realy detailed plots and some
realy basic ones.


--
__________________________________________________
|                      Oliver
Batchelor                                                   |
|          Email :
Bat### [at] netaccessconz                                         |
|Homepage :
http://users.netaccess.co.nz/Batch/                           |
|_________________________________________________|

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